15 Year old killed by Police

[csh]

Having followed the George Floyd killing and subsequent trial, I am quite interested in JKB's thoughts on the killing of a 15 year old girl in Columbus, Ohio.

Once again it puts American police in the spotlight, once again it is the death of a black person at the hands of police in America. But this time there doesn't appear to be any threads on the subject here, forgive me if I missed it. Does no one have any opinions on this?

 

For what it's worth I saw yesterday that the news broke during the Chauvin trial, mainly to headlines of "Police kill black teenager while the Chauvin verdict is read out" and I was saddened. I often wonder what the hell is happening in America. Having watched the bodycam footage of the incident, it really brings home how hard it can be for police to police their towns and cities.

 

What I saw was a policeman who made a split second decision to end a life, possibly saving another life, and I just cannot comprehend how difficult a job it must be.

 

Don't get me wrong the circumstances are entirely different from the George Floyd case, but this still goes down as a police shooting of a black person, and I wonder if we, in this country, fully appreciate the complexities of policing in a country where almost everyone is legally allowed to be armed?

 

 

I will state from the outset that I am no supporter of Chauvin, indeed, I quite often feel that American local police agencies are wholy under trained and unchecked compared to policing in the UK.

[Ray Gin]

If this is the story I read earlier, the girl had a knife and was swinging it at another girl. Completely different circumstances and a bit of shit-stirring from the media. 

 

[Tazio]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

If this is the story I read earlier, the girl had a knife and was swinging it at another girl. Completely different circumstances and a bit of shit-stirring from the media. 

 

Obviously she was needing stopped but once again it begs the question why straight to the guns? We know from last weeks events they carry tasers that can take down a grown man no problem. 

[Ray Gin]

14 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Obviously she was needing stopped but once again it begs the question why straight to the guns? We know from last weeks events they carry tasers that can take down a grown man no problem. 

 

They're only reliable within about 10 feet and the girl was charging at another girl. Perhaps the cop wasn't within range or confident of a successful hit with a taser when another girl's life was on the line. I guess the body cam footage will reveal more.

 

[Peakybunnet]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

They're only reliable within about 10 feet and the girl was charging at another girl. Perhaps the cop wasn't within range or confident of a successful hit with a taser when another girl's life was on the line. I guess the body cam footage will reveal more.

 

 

Have seen body cam footage. Looks pretty much like a split second decision. 

 

The big guy on the right has a kick at somebody on the ground and they dont touch him, but the girl with the knife is identified as the life threat and taken out. 

[ri Alban]

Gun control and a US wide code of recruitment would help. Some of these cops should be nowhere near law enforcement. 

And people should be taught not to run or resist, yes I know it's difficult not to. 

 

 

Guns need to go, but how that happens I have no idea. Just like NI and the troubles, I haven't lived it, so can't really begin to understand the difficulties. People must be shit scared to intervene, as in, push the cop off GF in case they get shot, no gun, that changes. 

 

Good luck Joe, you'll need it. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by ri Alban

[dobmisterdobster]

Every incident like this should be examined on a case by case basis. Not immediately lumped in with high-profile police brutality cases.

[dobmisterdobster]

52 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

If this is the story I read earlier, the girl had a knife and was swinging it at another girl. Completely different circumstances and a bit of shit-stirring from the media. 

 

 

I haven't seen the footage. I wonder if she was schizophrenic. There are a lot of cases like that in the US sadly.

[dobmisterdobster]

50 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Obviously she was needing stopped but once again it begs the question why straight to the guns? We know from last weeks events they carry tasers that can take down a grown man no problem. 

 

Tasers aren't always effective. Both barbs have to pierce the skin or it doesn't work. Clothing can get in the way. Some people just rip them out.

I wonder if they will ever develop more effective less-lethal weapons that can take people down instantly.

[Sharpie]

26 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Gun control and a US wide code of recruitment would help. Some of these cops should be nowhere near law enforcement. 

And people should be taught not to run or resist, yes I know it's difficult not to. 

 

 

Guns need to go, but how that happens I have no idea. Just like NI and the troubles, I haven't lived it, so can't really begin to understand the difficulties. People must be shit scared to intervene, as in, push the cop off GF in case they get shot, no gun, that changes. 

 

Good luck Joe, you'll need it. 

  As you say Joe is tackling the gun problem, not an easy task. Most police departments do fairly comprehensive background checks on applicants, they do lie detector tests, psychiatric tests, general interviews, and background checks. Sometimes you meet a guy and you wonder how he ever made it, and some seem alright but as time goes on you can see a change in character. I often wonder myself if I stayed normal with things I have seen. We sometimes wonder at animal behaviour, but in truth there is no animal worse than man when it comes to their treatment of other man. I don't know for sure, but I know at one time there were a lot of military veterans in the police in USA, and I can comment that from personal experience sometimes that is a positive influence and sometimes negative.

[The Gorgie]

The woman had a knife with the intent to kill people, the colour of her skin isn't relevant as to why she was shot.

[hughesie27]

Watched the Bodycam footage this morning. Police officer done nothing wrong imo.

Lassie comes barging out fighting, knife in hand, with the police clearly on scene. She then lunges at another young girld with the knife and thr police shoots her, potentially saving the life of the other girl.

 

Big man at the side then starts shouting "she's just a young girl" or something along those lines. The same guy only 2 seconds before the gunshots tried to kick another young girl in the head whilst she was on the ground. 

[Sharpie]

Lebron James multimillion dollar basketball player publishes a picture of the police officer with a caption on it saying "you're next". If the attacked girl had been killed I guess it would be the same picture with the same comment because he allowed the girl to be stabbed. Its funny that the States has done so much work to combat racial behaviour, and rightly so, persons should only be judged on who they are as opposed to what they are their heritage, their color or whatever else we use for judgements, but watching television news today I have to say that some of the rhetoric coming from black Americans and white proponents of black rights are going too far the wrong way, sometimes it pays when running a race to look back and see where you have come from, appreciate that you have a lead but just keep a good steady pace and you will win, without causing yourself or others any damage

[JFK-1]

It's definitely a difficult time to be a cop in the US. Anyone who has followed my various posts across various topics will know I am no fan of American policing and the American gun culture.

But black people in the US are pushing the envelope too far on some occasions and this is one of them. The girl was heading to stab another girl with what looked to be a sizeable knife. The cops are in a situation where they will be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

BLM in particular should be more choosy about the incidents they protest about. Take the Michael Brown incident as an example. Brown has tried to wrestle a gun from an officer who is still sitting in his police car. The gun discharges twice during the struggle, Brown is hit in the right hand by one of the shots. He then tries to flee.

He's still alive at this point but before moving further on the incident I feel it should be stated that there is no other outcome if trying to take an officers gun from him. Under no circumstances can the officer allow that to happen. Right?

So now Brown is running with one gunshot wound to the hand. Obviously not fatal. The officer exits the car and pursues which has to be the correct thing to do. Right?

After a short pursuit in which the officer is demanding he stop and surrender Brown stops but does not surrender. Instead he goes into a running charge at the officer who is facing him gun in hand. He has an 18 year old who stands 6 foot 4 inches tall and weighs over 20 stones charging at him.

Step back a little to the attempt at wrestling the gun from the officer as he sat in the car. This is what he said about it.
 

Quote

"I felt like a 5-year-old holding onto Hulk Hogan" while he attempted to restrain Brown when he reached through his police car window

 

Now he has that charging at him while he has the gun in his hands. What would you do? The officer fired and killed him.

Witnesses lied about the incident. They claimed Brown had been backing away and also claimed he had raised his hands while saying don't shoot. None of this turned out to be true.

Some witnesses lied. Others who had not actually seen what transpired claimed they had and simply repeated the lie until the forensic investigation proved they could not possibly have seen it. At which point they confessed they had not seen it. Merely repeated what they had been told by others.

But BLM ran with it anyway and still backed his family after a grand jury investigation exposed all those claims as lies. And I can foresee the same thing happening in the case of this girl. She was threatening another's very life.

They didn't shoot her because she was black. They shot her for the act of threatening life. They would have shot me too in the same circumstances. Anybody.

Black people need to stop this automatic reflex defence of the defenceless. It does their legitimate causes no good at all. And as I mentioned in another thread people need to learn how to be arrested.

If an officer is giving you orders and telling you that you're arrested that's it. End of story. This isn't a negotiation. You must comply and save any arguing for the station in the presence of a lawyer.

Under no circumstances should anyone be starting an altercation with a gun toting cop who is likely already nervous in a gun society where a weapon can appear at any moment. Yet many of the people involved in these shooting incidents are doing exactly that then BLM step in and scream injustice.

BLM too need to stop this automatic reflex defence of the defenceless to have any credibility when a real injustice occurs. The entire black community has to.

[jambo89]

To the girl in the pink's family, I am sure the Cop is a hero. Strange that BLM would protest this as arguably, this is the only viable time a police officer should use their weapon (to save another's life).

[dobmisterdobster]

52 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

To the girl in the pink's family, I am sure the Cop is a hero. Strange that BLM would protest this as arguably, this is the only viable time a police officer should use their weapon (to save another's life).

 

Correct. Police are not supposed to use tasers in life-threatening situations like this. No matter what social media says.

[Mysterion]

I have watched this and it looked like the girl with the knife lost the plot. I thought it looked like she was going to threaten the other person with the knife (to intimidate them and tell them to keep away from her?).

 

As someone who is firmly against guns and have a liberal mindset, I understand why the police officer took action and am not sure that they could have done anything else.

 

Should the police have a lead officer with a taser who calls on a 2nd officer if it doesn't stop the person ? I get that tasers don't always work but surely makes sense to have someone ready with a gun second than kill someone.  

 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

I have now seen the footage and the cop did nothing wrong IMO. Saved the other girl's life. 

 

Theres no way I would have reached for a single-shot taser in that situation. 

[Cade]

Lassie was lunging at another person with a knife with clear intent.

Threat to life was present.

Tasers aren't instant stopping devices.

Police were right to open fire to stop her.

Medics were called 90 seconds after the shots fired.

Medics arrived in under 6 minutes.

Police officers were employing life saving techniques all that time.

 

The only question here is why they had to fire 4 rounds and not 1 or 2.

It always has to be a hail of bullets.

[Mysterion]

23 minutes ago, Cade said:

The only question here is why they had to fire 4 rounds and not 1 or 2.

It always has to be a hail of bullets.

 

This ^^

Should police be trained to shoot twice then pause ? Would make some sense. 

 

 

[allyby]

35 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

This ^^

Should police be trained to shoot twice then pause ? Would make some sense. 

 

 

And if the police missed, the intended victim of the girl could be dead.

Edited April 22, 2021 by allyby

[jambo89]

36 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

This ^^

Should police be trained to shoot twice then pause ? Would make some sense. 

 

 

 

It's funny you mentioned that because after the poster earlier said about the Michael Brown, I looked it up further. In the court proceedings it was mentioned that the officer, Darren Wilson, did exactly this (although I believe it was 4 shots fired, pause, then another 4 shots). 

 

If I am reading the reports correctly, this was used against the officer in court to highlight that it was an intentional murder. It appears in that case that the victim Michael Brown, did not stop advancing towards the police officer after the 1st round of shots.  

[hughesie27]

What i will say is that at that speed of events, at that distance, it's impressive that he hit the target and not the victim.

[Mysterion]

54 minutes ago, allyby said:

And if the police missed, the intended victim of the girl could be dead.

 

Two shots, 2nd allow to adjust for accuracy. 

 

If you can hit a close proximity target in two then should you be wielding a gun ? 

[¼½¾]

27 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Two shots, 2nd allow to adjust for accuracy. 

 

If you can hit a close proximity target in two then should you be wielding a gun ? 

Maybe it's just me, but if someone was standing over me with a knife raised I'd be wanting the police to blast the hell out of them and not ***** about.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

What i will say is that at that speed of events, at that distance, it's impressive that he hit the target and not the victim.

 

Turns out he (the officer) is an expert marksman with the Air National Guard. Which must be some sort of reservist gig for him. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Seymour M Hersh

[allyby]

58 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Two shots, 2nd allow to adjust for accuracy. 

 

If you can hit a close proximity target in two then should you be wielding a gun ? 

There's a reason that there are more than two chambers in a gun, mistakes happens in the heat of the moment and misses can be easily made, the officer did his job!

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 hours ago, jambo89 said:

To the girl in the pink's family, I am sure the Cop is a hero. Strange that BLM would protest this as arguably, this is the only viable time a police officer should use their weapon (to save another's life).

 

Indeed.

 

I can just imagine the headlines if the Police hadn't shot the lassie wielding the knife.

Police stand by and do nothing as 15 year old girl knife's another girl, witness tells the media 'why didn't the police shoot the knifewoman'.

 

Seems to me damned if you do and damned if you do nothing.

 

[EH11_2NL]

Immediate threat to life. Lethal force justified. Nothing to see here. Tragic loss of 1 life but could have been 2. 

[indianajones]

12 hours ago, Cade said:

Lassie was lunging at another person with a knife with clear intent.

Threat to life was present.

Tasers aren't instant stopping devices.

Police were right to open fire to stop her.

Medics were called 90 seconds after the shots fired.

Medics arrived in under 6 minutes.

Police officers were employing life saving techniques all that time.

 

The only question here is why they had to fire 4 rounds and not 1 or 2.

It always has to be a hail of bullets.

 

 

9mm does not have great stopping power. 

 

Also all your above points outweigh your last question. If he shot once and the teenager was still able to slash or stab the girl in pink would you have asked why he only shot once or twice? 

 

 

[indianajones]

 

Unbelievable. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by indianajones

[Ray Gin]

6 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Unbelievable. 

 

Absolute moron. 

 

(the tweeter, that is) 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Ray Gin

[indianajones]

21 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Absolute moron. 

 

(the tweeter, that is) 

 

Follow it up with a quote from the White House: 

 

“Her death came just as America was hopeful for a step forward after the traumatic trial for the murder of Mr Floyd.”

 

WTF?

[Doctor FinnBarr]

21 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

It's definitely a difficult time to be a cop in the US. Anyone who has followed my various posts across various topics will know I am no fan of American policing and the American gun culture.

But black people in the US are pushing the envelope too far on some occasions and this is one of them. The girl was heading to stab another girl with what looked to be a sizeable knife. The cops are in a situation where they will be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

BLM in particular should be more choosy about the incidents they protest about. Take the Michael Brown incident as an example. Brown has tried to wrestle a gun from an officer who is still sitting in his police car. The gun discharges twice during the struggle, Brown is hit in the right hand by one of the shots. He then tries to flee.

He's still alive at this point but before moving further on the incident I feel it should be stated that there is no other outcome if trying to take an officers gun from him. Under no circumstances can the officer allow that to happen. Right?

So now Brown is running with one gunshot wound to the hand. Obviously not fatal. The officer exits the car and pursues which has to be the correct thing to do. Right?

After a short pursuit in which the officer is demanding he stop and surrender Brown stops but does not surrender. Instead he goes into a running charge at the officer who is facing him gun in hand. He has an 18 year old who stands 6 foot 4 inches tall and weighs over 20 stones charging at him.

Step back a little to the attempt at wrestling the gun from the officer as he sat in the car. This is what he said about it.
 

 

Now he has that charging at him while he has the gun in his hands. What would you do? The officer fired and killed him.

Witnesses lied about the incident. They claimed Brown had been backing away and also claimed he had raised his hands while saying don't shoot. None of this turned out to be true.

Some witnesses lied. Others who had not actually seen what transpired claimed they had and simply repeated the lie until the forensic investigation proved they could not possibly have seen it. At which point they confessed they had not seen it. Merely repeated what they had been told by others.

But BLM ran with it anyway and still backed his family after a grand jury investigation exposed all those claims as lies. And I can foresee the same thing happening in the case of this girl. She was threatening another's very life.

They didn't shoot her because she was black. They shot her for the act of threatening life. They would have shot me too in the same circumstances. Anybody.

Black people need to stop this automatic reflex defence of the defenceless. It does their legitimate causes no good at all. And as I mentioned in another thread people need to learn how to be arrested.

If an officer is giving you orders and telling you that you're arrested that's it. End of story. This isn't a negotiation. You must comply and save any arguing for the station in the presence of a lawyer.

Under no circumstances should anyone be starting an altercation with a gun toting cop who is likely already nervous in a gun society where a weapon can appear at any moment. Yet many of the people involved in these shooting incidents are doing exactly that then BLM step in and scream injustice.

BLM too need to stop this automatic reflex defence of the defenceless to have any credibility when a real injustice occurs. The entire black community has to.

 

Brilliant post JFK

[chuck berrys hairline]

Act like a gangster and you will be treated like one. Thug life 💪✌

[Jeffros Furios]

I see the hypocrite LeBron made a prick of himself again .

 

[indianajones]

2 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

I see the hypocrite LeBron made a prick of himself again .

 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

7 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Who and what is this referring to?

[Governor Tarkin]

26 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Who and what is this referring to?

 

That's the rozzer who slotted the black lassie. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

13 hours ago, indianajones said:

 

Unbelievable. 

 

Not alone by a long way unfortunately.

 

JASON JOHNSON: "Ma’Khia Bryant, a 16-year-old girl in Columbus, Ohio called the police for help. An officer was on the scene. And in twenty-two seconds, he shot her dead. An honor roll student who was making TikTok videos on makeup and hair. This hasn't stopped ... And still, 40 minutes after that [Derek Chauvin] ruling, a 16-year-old girl can be shot in front of her house. So no, I'm not hopeful. Because unless there is wholesale, wholesale change, abolishment of this institution that continues to fail tax-paying black people in this country, everything else is just fanciful thinking".

 

CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS, FORMER NAACP PRESIDENT & CEO: "It is not wrong, it is in fact right for people to ask, is it appropriate? Was it the right thing? Was it a necessary thing for a police officer, within minutes, of pulling out his gun and firing four bullets into a teenager's body? ... What if it were your daughter? What if it were your child, what if it were a member of your family, your neighbor in a -- essentially in a teenage fight, a schoolyard fight"?

 

JOY REID: "I remember fights in even high school or even younger than that where a kid brought a pen knife or something to school and teachers were able to defuse that and they didn’t have guns".

 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

40 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

That's the rozzer who slotted the black lassie. 

 Unbelievable. From what I have seen and heard he did his job. Should maybe just let the criminals get on with it and cancel each other out.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 hours ago, indianajones said:

 

Unbelievable. 

 

These people who are calling for the Police to be defunded/abolished would most likely be the first to call for citizens to protect & defend their neighbourhoods from all the criminals who would be roaming the streets with impunity.

[Captain Sausage]

On 22/04/2021 at 04:14, JFK-1 said:

It's definitely a difficult time to be a cop in the US. Anyone who has followed my various posts across various topics will know I am no fan of American policing and the American gun culture.

But black people in the US are pushing the envelope too far on some occasions and this is one of them. The girl was heading to stab another girl with what looked to be a sizeable knife. The cops are in a situation where they will be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

BLM in particular should be more choosy about the incidents they protest about. Take the Michael Brown incident as an example. Brown has tried to wrestle a gun from an officer who is still sitting in his police car. The gun discharges twice during the struggle, Brown is hit in the right hand by one of the shots. He then tries to flee.

He's still alive at this point but before moving further on the incident I feel it should be stated that there is no other outcome if trying to take an officers gun from him. Under no circumstances can the officer allow that to happen. Right?

So now Brown is running with one gunshot wound to the hand. Obviously not fatal. The officer exits the car and pursues which has to be the correct thing to do. Right?

After a short pursuit in which the officer is demanding he stop and surrender Brown stops but does not surrender. Instead he goes into a running charge at the officer who is facing him gun in hand. He has an 18 year old who stands 6 foot 4 inches tall and weighs over 20 stones charging at him.

Step back a little to the attempt at wrestling the gun from the officer as he sat in the car. This is what he said about it.
 

 

Now he has that charging at him while he has the gun in his hands. What would you do? The officer fired and killed him.

Witnesses lied about the incident. They claimed Brown had been backing away and also claimed he had raised his hands while saying don't shoot. None of this turned out to be true.

Some witnesses lied. Others who had not actually seen what transpired claimed they had and simply repeated the lie until the forensic investigation proved they could not possibly have seen it. At which point they confessed they had not seen it. Merely repeated what they had been told by others.

But BLM ran with it anyway and still backed his family after a grand jury investigation exposed all those claims as lies. And I can foresee the same thing happening in the case of this girl. She was threatening another's very life.

They didn't shoot her because she was black. They shot her for the act of threatening life. They would have shot me too in the same circumstances. Anybody.

Black people need to stop this automatic reflex defence of the defenceless. It does their legitimate causes no good at all. And as I mentioned in another thread people need to learn how to be arrested.

If an officer is giving you orders and telling you that you're arrested that's it. End of story. This isn't a negotiation. You must comply and save any arguing for the station in the presence of a lawyer.

Under no circumstances should anyone be starting an altercation with a gun toting cop who is likely already nervous in a gun society where a weapon can appear at any moment. Yet many of the people involved in these shooting incidents are doing exactly that then BLM step in and scream injustice.

BLM too need to stop this automatic reflex defence of the defenceless to have any credibility when a real injustice occurs. The entire black community has to.

 

Great post. Best thing I’ve seen on the topic.