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Riddley Walker
23 hours ago, Greenbank2 said:

IMO The big difference is entitlement culture. I knew families when I was a kid whose parents (particularly the father) were regarded as wasters. Kids were left to run feral, old man spent wages in the pub, mother sitting around drinking tea and smoking fags with similar minded neighbours. Often the kids were the scheme bams, and you did not want to see them attempting to join in whatever the rest were up to - it would always end badly. For the majority, you were taught to address your elders as Mr or Mrs, always have reverence (and some fear) of Policemen, your teachers were always right, and if you got belted, it was always your own fault and never confess at home , or you'd get it again! The attitude was work hard, stick in and you will better yourself. The problem was that this wasn't always true, and, particularly if you were not from a big city, upon emerging into the world you became aware of the many disparities in society that influence the way your life will take shape, but by then the die had been cast and your values were pretty much ingrained.

 

The biggest change is the move to what I would describe as entitlement culture. By that I mean society's move to encourage everyone to believe that they are entitled to things. At that mainly means "success". From the youngest age, we are now ingrained with messages that everyone is a winner, there are no losers, your are entitled to be successful. And parents amplify this. It is now the fault of the schools if they don't turn out little Einstein's - or if not it's a visit to the doctor to see what what excuse of a syndrome the kid can be labelled with. The attitude is that everyone has a right to a big telly, a new car, and degree, a gap year, time spent traveling, a 4 bedroom house with a double garage,... I could go on. Maybe I am just getting too old but how did we get to a position where there is now a "thing" called "Influencer" which is a badge of honour? We now have a couple of generation where entitlement without effort is underpinning the messaging which saturates everyday lives. Of course it is a message created by capitalist consumer society designed get people to acquire more stuff, get into more lifetime debt and compete with their neighbours.

 

Despite this, the majority of kids actually grow up being descent people, it's just that the pressure of entitlement and consumerism is turning a bigger proportion into the modern equivalent of the wasters of my day

 

I don't recognise the emboldened paragraph at all from the real world that I live in, of parents in their thirties and kids of all ages and normal folk just going about their day. Where are you getting this stuff from? Not even being wide, it just seems like a fantasy world you've created based on something you've read about somewhere. 

 

I agree that influencers are vapid, but really they are just modern versions of models, which have always existed to some degree. 

 

As to your first paragraph, I can't see how you're arguing that this is a better way to live. 

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Lord BJ

Influencers are just a modern form of advertising/marketing. Just a bit more subtle than a infomercial.

 

A lot of people struggle with change, especially as they get older.

Edited by Lord BJ
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Greenbank2
7 hours ago, Riddley Walker said:

 

I don't recognise the emboldened paragraph at all from the real world that I live in, of parents in their thirties and kids of all ages and normal folk just going about their day. Where are you getting this stuff from? Not even being wide, it just seems like a fantasy world you've created based on something you've read about somewhere. 

 

I agree that influencers are vapid, but really they are just modern versions of models, which have always existed to some degree. 

 

As to your first paragraph, I can't see how you're arguing that this is a better way to live. 

You are being wide. I am a parent, have a lot of experience with youth organisations and yes I read A LOT, but my comments are based on experience and societal observation.  As to living in a fantasy I have created? Wrong. Here are just 2 examples of things that happened within Universities in 2019 - just before Covid  - Students demanded that they be excused from exams because they "Didn't have enough privilege to handle them emotionally". At yet another University, the student union banned clapping at events in case it triggered anxiety. Both of these are examples of a minority influence. Specifically demanding that majority behaviour is adjusted to accommodate specific minority "needs". I am not for a minute suggesting that things were somehow "better" or we should return to the past - but that a huge degree of entitlement has become pervasive at the expense of effort and honest graft and achievement.

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will-i-am-a-jambo
On 05/04/2021 at 09:17, Carl Fredrickson said:

Thanks for this thread, I was talking about this with my mum on Saturday. I was brought up in quite a strict house. I was the youngest of 5 and show of emotions were rare. I have no recollection of either parent telling me they loved me though I have no doubt that they did. This I think would stem from their own upbringing. 

 

I only ever got the belt once and I truly deserved it. 

 

I now have my own kids, the first being born when I was 40. At the last parents night (phone calls) both their teachers praised them for their behaviour and for my oldest the teacher said he has good morals. They are both doing well at school but I try to impress on them the importance of being honest and fair too. Being divorced it can be hard as the standards at their mums can vary. 

 

I try to do my best and can but hope that they grow up to be decent folk who appreciate life and veer towards doing the right thing. 

I'm the same as you mate in that there's different standards between the parents (of our child) but she's well loved so thats what really matters. I hardly ever have any bother with my 7 yr old daughter when she's with me but her behaviour with her mum is different. I get she spends more time with her mum and she's also autistic (possibly it's not been confirmed) so we have to consider that aspect too. Her mum is her 'safe' person so she has her meltdowns when with her.

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Carl Fredrickson
3 hours ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said:

I'm the same as you mate in that there's different standards between the parents (of our child) but she's well loved so thats what really matters. I hardly ever have any bother with my 7 yr old daughter when she's with me but her behaviour with her mum is different. I get she spends more time with her mum and she's also autistic (possibly it's not been confirmed) so we have to consider that aspect too. Her mum is her 'safe' person so she has her meltdowns when with her.

 

That is interesting to hear. My kids appear to behave a lot differently from house to house. I have my kids 3 nights a week and I call them every day when they are at their mums. When I call the background noise is always noisy with lots of shouting and arguing. My kids help with chores around the house and garden but their mum says she cant get them to do anything at hers. 

At their mums they have a wee sister who seems to get away with murder and a huge energetic dog, so it may be that they get more attention at my house and behave differently as a result. There are no doubt other factors but that is what I tell myself :)

 

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will-i-am-a-jambo
2 hours ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

 

That is interesting to hear. My kids appear to behave a lot differently from house to house. I have my kids 3 nights a week and I call them every day when they are at their mums. When I call the background noise is always noisy with lots of shouting and arguing. My kids help with chores around the house and garden but their mum says she cant get them to do anything at hers. 

At their mums they have a wee sister who seems to get away with murder and a huge energetic dog, so it may be that they get more attention at my house and behave differently as a result. There are no doubt other factors but that is what I tell myself :)

 

 

I think kids and their behaviour is fascinating. You probably have clear boundaries (which is what kids actually want) and that's maybe why they respect you more. If parents give conflicting rules or say one thing and do another then it confuses the child and they end up not knowing what the correct way to behave is. As you say though there could be a whole host of reasons why kids behave differently with different parents/adults. 

 

I agree with others that shouting at them doesn't work or hitting them either. It sends the wrong message. I find spending time with the child and engaging with them works well. As well as explaining why we behave in certain ways and what the appropriate behaviours are. Education is definitely the key in my mind.  

 

Ps that's great you get them to do chores. I try that with my daughter too and she usually surprises me with actually enjoying them but l guess maybe there's the novelty factor as well.

Edited by will-i-am-a-jambo
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Carl Fredrickson
1 hour ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said:

 

I think kids and their behaviour is fascinating. You probably have clear boundaries (which is what kids actually want) and that's maybe why they respect you more. If parents give conflicting rules or say one thing and do another then it confuses the child and they end up not knowing what the correct way to behave is. As you say though there could be a whole host of reasons why kids behave differently with different parents/adults. 

 

I agree with others that shouting at them doesn't work or hitting them either. It sends the wrong message. I find spending time with the child and engaging with them works well. As well as explaining why we behave in certain ways and what the appropriate behaviours are. Education is definitely the key in my mind.  

 

Ps that's great you get them to do chores. I try that with my daughter too and she usually surprises me with actually enjoying them but l guess maybe there's the novelty factor as well.

 

That is good advice and guidance. I am guilty of raising my voice (not shouting) at times but by that point the kids have realised that things have gone too far. 

 

The chore thing is for them to get their pocket money, or in my sons case, to pay me back when he has asked for money for something. We try and make the chores as much fun and entertaining as possible ie see how long it takes to do something and see if you can beat your brother/sister. 

 

Parenting is something that wasnt spoke about or discussed when I grew up but nowadays there seems to be so much information and assistance that any loving parent can access to help them

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On 07/04/2021 at 18:03, Greenbank2 said:

You are being wide. I am a parent, have a lot of experience with youth organisations and yes I read A LOT, but my comments are based on experience and societal observation.  As to living in a fantasy I have created? Wrong. Here are just 2 examples of things that happened within Universities in 2019 - just before Covid  - Students demanded that they be excused from exams because they "Didn't have enough privilege to handle them emotionally". At yet another University, the student union banned clapping at events in case it triggered anxiety. Both of these are examples of a minority influence. Specifically demanding that majority behaviour is adjusted to accommodate specific minority "needs". I am not for a minute suggesting that things were somehow "better" or we should return to the past - but that a huge degree of entitlement has become pervasive at the expense of effort and honest graft and achievement.

 

 

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Riddley Walker
On 07/04/2021 at 18:03, Greenbank2 said:

You are being wide. I am a parent, have a lot of experience with youth organisations and yes I read A LOT, but my comments are based on experience and societal observation.  As to living in a fantasy I have created? Wrong. Here are just 2 examples of things that happened within Universities in 2019 - just before Covid  - Students demanded that they be excused from exams because they "Didn't have enough privilege to handle them emotionally". At yet another University, the student union banned clapping at events in case it triggered anxiety. Both of these are examples of a minority influence. Specifically demanding that majority behaviour is adjusted to accommodate specific minority "needs". I am not for a minute suggesting that things were somehow "better" or we should return to the past - but that a huge degree of entitlement has become pervasive at the expense of effort and honest graft and achievement.

 

Universities being a hotbed of 'left wing' radicalism is hardly something new is it? It's always been there, in some way or another. You said: By that I mean society's move to encourage everyone to believe that they are entitled to things. At that mainly means "success". From the youngest age, we are now ingrained with messages that everyone is a winner, there are no losers, your are entitled to be successful. And parents amplify this. It is now the fault of the schools if they don't turn out little Einstein's - or if not it's a visit to the doctor to see what what excuse of a syndrome the kid can be labelled with. The attitude is that everyone has a right to a big telly, a new car, and degree, a gap year, time spent traveling, a 4 bedroom house with a double garage...

 

I'm not sure how your answer about unis applies to this whatsoever. It's not a widespread attitude I recognise at all. Where are these parents blaming schools if their kids aren't geniuses? This is all just massivey presumptuous and I think you are living in a fantasy world if you think these attitudes are widespread. The gap between rich and poor is the biggest it's ever been in this country. Wages have stagnated but things are more expensive. The idea of owning a home is an impossibility for a massive chunk of the population, unlike back then when anyone could buy a house. A lot of families struggle just to get by with massive rent costs. So aye, this is a fantasy world you've created. I hope when I'm older I recognise that the fake nostalgia I have for my younger years is misplaced and can view things objectively. 

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