Is St Johnstone the best run club in Scotland.....?

[Section Q]

Since their promotion back to the Premier league they've appointed a succession of managers who have left of their own free will, some to bigger clubs and even replaced their chairman, (father to son), without missing a beat. They've won two major cups, the second and most recent, collected by their own home reared captain, Jason Kerr, and all achieved without star players or marquis signings. They make it sound easy.........

Edited April 3, 2021 by Section Q

[Class of 75]

It is easy my friend. Levein then his protégé Neilson over complicated it. Over 100 players signed which eventually led to relegation from the top flight smacks of not having a clue. 

[Beni]

Nah, their restaurant is only 6th on trip advisor.

 

Seriously they have been consistent and regularly punch above their weight, and the fact that they've been able to do it without any marquis signings actually makes me a bit sade.

[The Gorgie]

For having about 3 fans they do not too shabby. In the last 7 years they've won more than us and spent less time in the championship than us. Drop their knickers to turn their home games v the OF into away games but it works for them.

[Thomaso]

23 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

It is easy my friend. Levein then his protégé Neilson over complicated it. Over 100 players signed which eventually led to relegation from the top flight smacks of not having a clue. 

Levein thought himself a football revolutionary however that was only in his self centred arrogant mind. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

No idea and not sure I care tbh. Small town club (Perth pop the roughly the same as Wester Hailes) with zero fan expectation year on year. There are probably much smaller clubs than them being run just as well or better relatively speaking. 

[Psychedelicropcircle]

Anybody who tells  its ST holders to get out yer seat as the arse cheeks are coming isn’t a well run club! FACTS

[Section Q]

46 minutes ago, Barack said:

They have missed a beat. Several. Here's just one. Stevie May, please stand up. 

 

They've had a nice cup run & might get Top 6. The fine line between losing the final & bottom 6, is just that. Fine. And Davidson is walking it. Couple of good players, yes. Kerr especially. Who despite being Hibs, I'd take tomorrow.

 

Certainly not holding them up as a paragon of fiscal & footballing goals, that the rest of Scottish football wish to achieve. I'd be confident nobody at Hibs or Aberdeen feels that way either.

 

They've had some football success. Good luck to them while they have it. That's as far a compliment that they'll get from me.

 

I don't think their cup success is the whole story. Decent managerial appointees, from Owen Cole, Derek McInness, Steve Lomas, Tommy Wright, and the longest serving chairman in the league, before passing it onto his son. Continuity seems to be the key, and no prima donnas.

[Section Q]

26 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

No idea and not sure I care tbh. Small town club (Perth pop the roughly the same as Wester Hailes) with zero fan expectation year on year. There are probably much smaller clubs than them being run just as well or better relatively speaking. 

Care to name one......?

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Care to name one......?

 

Not really but look at the League 1 and 2 clubs surviving on a shoestring year on year. They must be pretty well run to do that. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Seymour M Hersh

[Section Q]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not really but look at the League 1 and 2 clubs surviving on a shoestring year on year. They must be pretty well run to do that. 

👍

[ShortmanRossco]

Since the question is if they are the best run team in Scotland I'd say possibly......but as far as I'm concerned they have to sell their soul to do so. Appreciate why they sell out as big allocations as they do to the likes of us and the horrible Glasgow teams but it doesn't sit right with me at all that they essentially turn their home ground into a neutral venue. **** that. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Is there a St Johnstone option?

[Deid Heid]

32 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Is there a St Johnstone option?

Nah only City or United...

[graygo]

Their football department is doing well, commercial department is on it's knees since wakes got banned.

[Alan_R]

What this thread shows up is how important cup wins are. I doubt their fans will worry much whether they were 7th or sixth when they lifted the cups.

 

Like folk saying winning championship was be all and end all.🤦‍♂️ While we shouldn't have to choose I'd bite your hand off for a cup win in place of this turgid plod to promotion. Especially in the league cup where our record is so woeful.

 

Getting knocked out both early doors has really hit home 

[EIEIO]

6 minutes ago, Alan_R said:

What this thread shows up is how important cup wins are. I doubt their fans will worry much whether they were 7th or sixth when they lifted the cups.

 

Like folk saying winning championship was be all and end all.🤦‍♂️ While we shouldn't have to choose I'd bite your hand off for a cup win in place of this turgid plod to promotion. Especially in the league cup where our record is so woeful.

 

Getting knocked out both early doors has really hit home 

The other thing it shows is we have been in the championship twice when they have haven't. As you say who cares about top 6 or bottom 6 if you can win a cup now and then. We compare unfavourably to most teams in the Premiership in terms of bang for our buck with our playing budget.

[Class of 75]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Levein thought himself a football revolutionary however that was only in his self centred arrogant mind. 

Definitely. Craig Levein thought Craig Levein was a top manager. 

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, Section Q said:

I don't think their cup success is the whole story. Decent managerial appointees, from Owen Cole, Derek McInness, Steve Lomas, Tommy Wright, and the longest serving chairman in the league, before passing it onto his son. Continuity seems to be the key, and no prima donnas.

I think you're spot on to hold up St. Johnstone as an example of punching well above their weight - compared to us who seldom punch our weight.    Folk decrying them for selling 3 stands to the Bigot Brothers are missing the point. They do that to try to balance the books - whereas we just ask JA for more free money, or AB takes out another loan which we fans have to pay back.  We're more of a financial basket case than them.   I wrote to Stuart Wallace last week and pointed out that everyone in the boardroom should be embarrassed at what Hearts have become in comparison to St Johnstone's relative success.

[GavK1012]

3 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

It is easy my friend. Levein then his protégé Neilson over complicated it. Over 100 players signed which eventually led to relegation from the top flight smacks of not having a clue. 

Bang on. Spot on. 

 

This game has been over complicated at every level now, folk making it out to be rocket science. 

 

Trying to make themselves out to be a guru of some description. 

 

We have suffered immensley from this failed mindset....

 

Listening to JC recently of the Scarves podcast, he mentions it a few times...times do move on, but it's football at the end of the day, not keyhole surgery....

[Class of 75]

2 minutes ago, GavK1012 said:

Bang on. Spot on. 

 

This game has been over complicated at every level now, folk making it out to be rocket science. 

 

Trying to make themselves out to be a guru of some description. 

 

We have suffered immensley from this failed mindset....

 

Listening to JC recently of the Scarves podcast, he mentions it a few times...times do move on, but it's football at the end of the day, not keyhole surgery....

Agree my friend. Smaller clubs than Hearts have worked within their means correctly and reaped the rewards. Hearts on the other hand have treated it like rocket science and been responsible for their own problems. At the very least negligence on the part of Levein who thinks he is some sort of untouchable football messiah. 

[Ribble]

It’s kinda easier for them to punch above their weight when every single season their ambition is the same, 10th place. Aiming for tenth means you don’t take the risky signings that could propel you higher or backfire, you simply make safe signing after safe signing in the full knowledge that their very limited fan base will accept that so long as they are in the top flight next year. 
 

Really can’t be a model that you can lift and shift to other clubs. 

[151]

Fairly sure it came out recently St Johnstone didn't even pay their non playing staff the minimum wage, never mind the living wage. 

 

If this is seen as even acceptable never mind "the best run club in Scotland" then fair doos but I think thats probably the worst run club.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Yep they are well run but you could argue its easier to be so when you know or limit your ambitions and don't have such an expectant demanding support.

 

 

St johnstone also had one big advantage over the clubs around them during the mad spending cheating rangers years which almost killed a shit load of clubs ,a complete stadium with facilities by 1989 .

So no real major capital investment needed since then .

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

I think you're spot on to hold up St. Johnstone as an example of punching well above their weight - compared to us who seldom punch our weight.    Folk decrying them for selling 3 stands to the Bigot Brothers are missing the point. They do that to try to balance the books - whereas we just ask JA for more free money, or AB takes out another loan which we fans have to pay back.  We're more of a financial basket case than them.   I wrote to Stuart Wallace last week and pointed out that everyone in the boardroom should be embarrassed at what Hearts have become in comparison to St Johnstone's relative success.

Well done for writing to board, hope they don't palm you off.

While I'm grateful for Budge's money, I fail to see how we haven't seen the club handed over to the foundation as yet. The pandemic excuse doesn't do it for me. We've seen huge financial deals and even the public float of huge companies in this time. I hope we can settle on a workable structure once things are settled. Would also like to see us purchase Budge's shares too if allowed.

[Hectormasson]

On 03/04/2021 at 09:50, fancy a brew said:

Nah, their restaurant is only 6th on trip advisor.

 

Seriously they have been consistent and regularly punch above their weight, and the fact that they've been able to do it without any marquis signings actually makes me a bit sade.

With about 2.000 per home gate ??? F....g unreal...

[Mars plastic]

On 03/04/2021 at 09:34, Section Q said:

Since their promotion back to the Premier league they've appointed a succession of managers who have left of their own free will, some to bigger clubs and even replaced their chairman, (father to son), without missing a beat. They've won two major cups, the second and most recent, collected by their own home reared captain, Jason Kerr, and all achieved without star players or marquis signings. They make it sound easy.........

 

[bigdav]

29 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

 

Oooh one for the oldies there 😄

[Jambo92]

Pressure does funny things to people. St Johnstone is the perfect place to play your football with next to no pressure. Very little fans, very little scrutiny and as a result very little expectations, so their team is settled, they've played together for many years and can go and play freely.

Hearts rightly or wrongly is a different type of club, looking through our team Boyce Smith Kingsley Gordon and Naismith to me are the only players who don't wilt under pressure.

[corryjambo]

On 03/04/2021 at 09:50, fancy a brew said:

Nah, their restaurant is only 6th on trip advisor.

 

Seriously they have been consistent and regularly punch above their weight, and the fact that they've been able to do it without any marquis signings actually makes me a bit sade.

 

Made me laugh and that's a hard thing to do when reading this board just now.

[Saint Jambo]

On 03/04/2021 at 09:34, Section Q said:

Since their promotion back to the Premier league they've appointed a succession of managers who have left of their own free will, some to bigger clubs and even replaced their chairman, (father to son), without missing a beat. They've won two major cups, the second and most recent, collected by their own home reared captain, Jason Kerr, and all achieved without star players or marquis signings. They make it sound easy.........

 

Well run, yes. Best run, not convinced.

 

As fans we are massively influenced by recent events and trophies. If we were able to say they were the best run, that should have been evident before not after they won the league cup.

 

It could be argued they've been lucky with their two cup wins. Both were won without beating either of the Old Firm. Compare that to Motherwell who are another team with a decent claim to best run. A couple of years ago they reached two finals in a season but face a rampant Celtic team in both and lose. If Celtic are knocked out of those two and make it to the final of the two St Johnstone win, we probably all consider Motherwell the best run team and don't consider St Johnstone to be in the running.

 

Equally, go back a couple of years and we probably hold up Killie as a good example. Hamilton arguably have punched more above their weight than St Johnstone.

 

Well run, yes. Best run, probably would require a more rigorous study than any of us can do and access to information on finances we don't have.

 

 

[Sherbet]

Better than us !

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Well run, yes. Best run, not convinced.

 

As fans we are massively influenced by recent events and trophies. If we were able to say they were the best run, that should have been evident before not after they won the league cup.

 

It could be argued they've been lucky with their two cup wins. Both were won without beating either of the Old Firm. Compare that to Motherwell who are another team with a decent claim to best run. A couple of years ago they reached two finals in a season but face a rampant Celtic team in both and lose. If Celtic are knocked out of those two and make it to the final of the two St Johnstone win, we probably all consider Motherwell the best run team and don't consider St Johnstone to be in the running.

 

Equally, go back a couple of years and we probably hold up Killie as a good example. Hamilton arguably have punched more above their weight than St Johnstone.

 

Well run, yes. Best run, probably would require a more rigorous study than any of us can do and access to information on finances we don't have.

 

 

My point was....well run with a constant board/chairman, successive managers who moved on to bigger clubs, youth cultivation like Jason Kerr as the youngest capt in the SPL etc...

[Section Q]

2 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

 

?

[shaun.lawson]

Yes they are. They have been for most of the last couple of decades. 

 

In more recent times, Motherwell have been second best... and certainly have the best social media operation going.

[Kiwidoug]

Great OP.  They're certainly leaving us for dead.

 

Wonder what would happen if Damour went there.

 

Bet they're not a secret society like us.  What is happening to Damour and Ginelly? Sorry Doug, big secret.  You're not allowed to know.

[MCW1976]

On 03/04/2021 at 09:50, fancy a brew said:

Nah, their restaurant is only 6th on trip advisor.

 

Seriously they have been consistent and regularly punch above their weight, and the fact that they've been able to do it without any marquis signings actually makes me a bit sade.

Does everything that makes you sad cause you to recoil into your alter-ego, ie., Sade?

 

Ill need to try that because Hearts are currently making me hate being in my own skin 😄

Edited April 9, 2021 by MCW1976

[Ron Burgundy]

9 hours ago, Section Q said:

?

She was a new presenter called Mary Marquis.

[Ainsley Harriott]

If they are the best run based on results v money spent we must be about the worst 

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

She was a new presenter called Mary Marquis.

What position did she play..........?

[redjambo]

4 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

She was a new presenter called Mary Marquis.

 

Thanks Ron. I looked at her photo and could only remember she was called Mary, not her surname.

[JDK2020]

Pretty decent club all round, the only blot on the landscape being the fat, baw-heided, tosser known as Stuart Cosgrove.

Edited April 9, 2021 by JDK2020

[Auldbenches]

38 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

Pretty decent club all round, the only blot on the landscape being the fat, baw-heided, tosser known as Stuart Cosgrove.

Are they not part of the rat pack that voted us down?  They might be the best run club in Europe but **** em after that. 

[JDK2020]

2 hours ago, Auldbenches said:

Are they not part of the rat pack that voted us down?  They might be the best run club in Europe but **** em after that. 

 

Good thinking. 👍

[Section Q]

Their formula of appointing bright young managers rom Coyle McInness and now Davidson on a limited budget has been paying off for years now.  Goes to show the importance of a board that knows what they're doing. 

[McCrae]

Every club could learn lessons from SJ.  Our performance in comparison is disgraceful. We have massively under performed on and off the park. 

[Deevers]

If it wasn’t for Geoff Brown and his family they would have vanished years ago into the oblivion of the lower leagues. He kept them on the financial straight and narrow path and has bailed them out on more than a few occasions.  Fair play to them this season they’ve hit well above their weight.  Their problem now will be the vultures circling looking to pick up players on the cheap and it is  possible their manager is being eyed up elsewhere.

[husref musemic]

There ability to find good players on a shoestring is remarkable.

 

by contrast, if you compare that with the expensive John Murray talent conveyor we've wasted millions.

 

[gedster]

9 minutes ago, husref musemic said:

There ability to find good players on a shoestring is remarkable.

 

by contrast, if you compare that with the expensive John Murray talent conveyor we've wasted millions.

 

A depressingly true synopsis

[Gordon Ramsay]

Certainly better than us but that isn't hard. 

 

As much as I enjoyed seeing Hibs fail again it's rather embarrassing Anne and Robbie celebrating winning the Championship like its the world's greatest achievement while St J have just pulled off a cup double. 

 

Absolute last chance saloon this season. We HAVE to get it right this summer with signings.