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Roy Greenslade - IRA


Dusk_Till_Dawn

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

This has been quite a big story in England - long-time media commentator on the Guardian admitting he was pro IRA during the troubles (article is behind a paywall, sorry):

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/roy-greenslade-i-cheered-on-the-ira-from-fleet-street-you-just-didnt-read-all-about-it-vc3zbl6n9

 

Not sure how I feel about this. The piece is woefully one-eyed but in fairness, a lot of the UK based coverage of the troubles was very pro UK/unionism. Is he entitled to this stand point?

 

I won’t post them here but allegations made against him over a legal case do make him sound like a prick and an IRA stooge.

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Governor Tarkin

He's entitled to his views, but I'm not a fan of the IRA. 

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Malinga the Swinga

A Guardian journalist cheering on an organisation that bombed and killed innocent women and children in NI and mainland. Doesn't surprise me. 

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Jeffros Furios

Anyone supporting any terrorist organisation that kills people is a scumbag .

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

This thread probably won’t last long ! 


It should do. It’s being discussed everywhere.

 

Personally I come round to the view that the guy’s a bell end

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Forza Cuore

Never heard of him, sounds like a character from Only Fools and Horses.

 

A right horrible shister character.

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Nunya Business

Cheered on a terrorist organisation while it murdered innocent civilians? What a ****ing arsehole.

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They cried about Bloody Sunday, too.  🤷🏿‍♂️

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jack D and coke

It’s a subject that fascinates and shocks me. Reading about the aftermath of the Enniskillen and Omagh bombs is heart wrenching stuff. The bombs that didn’t go off at Enniskillen were the ones that would’ve possibly shocked more. Hard to believe anyone can do these things to innocent people going about their lives. 
Britain was responsible for some absolutely shocking atrocities over there too though. The treatment of ireland for a long time was appalling. 

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Salad Fingers
44 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s a subject that fascinates and shocks me. Reading about the aftermath of the Enniskillen and Omagh bombs is heart wrenching stuff. The bombs that didn’t go off at Enniskillen were the ones that would’ve possibly shocked more. Hard to believe anyone can do these things to innocent people going about their lives. 
Britain was responsible for some absolutely shocking atrocities over there too though. The treatment of ireland for a long time was appalling. 

 

A horrible, dirty but ultimately fascinating (in my opinion) war.  

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Governor Tarkin
14 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Anyone who kills anyone is an arsehole.

 

 

:spoton:

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jack D and coke
1 minute ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

A horrible, dirty but ultimately fascinating (in my opinion) war.  

Some crazy stories and rumours of people swapping sides and then being involved in shootings etc. This story for instance was gruesome but ultimately fascinating at the same time. There was a tv programme about it a couple of years ago. Harrowing stuff too. The full report is here...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

but it was rumoured to have been a double agent involved. 
 

“Alan Black, the only survivor of Kingsmill, believes that IRA members involved in the massacre were double agents working for the British state.[50] He believes there was a "cover up" and that British security forces knew the massacre was going to happen but allowed it to. Karen Armstrong, sister of victim John McConville, said: "A lot of people were being protected back then and they still are".[51] It has been suggested that the gunman with the English accent could have been British Intelligence officer Robert Nairac.[52] “

 

 

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Salad Fingers
13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Some crazy stories and rumours of people swapping sides and then being involved in shootings etc. This story for instance was gruesome but ultimately fascinating at the same time. There was a tv programme about it a couple of years ago. Harrowing stuff too. The full report is here...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

but it was rumoured to have been a double agent involved. 
 

“Alan Black, the only survivor of Kingsmill, believes that IRA members involved in the massacre were double agents working for the British state.[50] He believes there was a "cover up" and that British security forces knew the massacre was going to happen but allowed it to. Karen Armstrong, sister of victim John McConville, said: "A lot of people were being protected back then and they still are".[51] It has been suggested that the gunman with the English accent could have been British Intelligence officer Robert Nairac.[52] “

 

 

 

Nairac was apparently involved in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the Miami Showband massacre amongst others. I don't know if there is any books on the guy but he lived an incredible life in Northern Ireland. He faked an Irish accent and managed to drink in bars in Crossmaglen etc without too much attention. Unthinkable for British soldiers at that time. In fact the night he was killed by the IRA he was drinking in a bar in South Armagh unarmed. 

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jack D and coke
16 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

Nairac was apparently involved in the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the Miami Showband massacre amongst others. I don't know if there is any books on the guy but he lived an incredible life in Northern Ireland. He faked an Irish accent and managed to drink in bars in Crossmaglen etc without too much attention. Unthinkable for British soldiers at that time. In fact the night he was killed by the IRA he was drinking in a bar in South Armagh unarmed. 

I remember reading that now aye, nice one. 
What an incredible life...There has to be something wrong with people like that. How can you live your life pretending to be something else entirely especially when it involves things that deadly? Mental. 
The tv show The Spy with Sacha Baron Cohen is worth a watch if you like that double agent stuff. True story. 

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Just for some additional background on Greenslade, when he was doing most of his IRA cheerleading he actually worked for the Sun, Star, Times and Express before becoming editor of the Mirror. A media whore if ever there was one. 

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3fingersreid
2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s a subject that fascinates and shocks me. Reading about the aftermath of the Enniskillen and Omagh bombs is heart wrenching stuff. The bombs that didn’t go off at Enniskillen were the ones that would’ve possibly shocked more. Hard to believe anyone can do these things to innocent people going about their lives. 
Britain was responsible for some absolutely shocking atrocities over there too though. The treatment of ireland for a long time was appalling. 

You can add Warrenpoint to the two you listed as well☹️
You always get the feeling that NI has the troubles just bubbling under the surface sadly 

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Salad Fingers
6 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

You can add Warrenpoint to the two you listed as well☹️
You always get the feeling that NI has the troubles just bubbling under the surface sadly 

 

Aye, incredibly there's actually more peace walls now than there was at the time of the GFA. 

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jack D and coke
25 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

You can add Warrenpoint to the two you listed as well☹️
You always get the feeling that NI has the troubles just bubbling under the surface sadly 

Absolutely. That’s why I wince at the danger of people like George Galloway who basically think the 1m+ Protestants in NI shouid be completely ignored about their views and wishes to remain part of the uk and unify Ireland. Incredibly dangerous views. The people who cheerlead him here now because he vehemently opposes the snp need to sort themselves out. 

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1 hour ago, 3fingersreid said:

You can add Warrenpoint to the two you listed as well☹️
You always get the feeling that NI has the troubles just bubbling under the surface sadly 

There's definitely elements left and groups willing to cause harm but these paramilitaries don't have the support in the communities that they used to. The younger generations, those who were kids in the 90's and who were born after GFA, have no appetite for it. Things have changed in N. I. and most folk have moved on. 

 

However, folk like Arlene Foster going to have lunch recently with Loyalist Paramilitaries doesn't help the situation. 

 

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-leader-defends-her-meeting-with-loyalist-group-over-protocol-40133307.html

 

44 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Absolutely. That’s why I wince at the danger of people like George Galloway who basically think the 1m+ Protestants in NI shouid be completely ignored about their views and wishes to remain part of the uk and unify Ireland. Incredibly dangerous views. The people who cheerlead him here now because he vehemently opposes the snp need to sort themselves out. 

Indeed. The man should have been locked up in a loony bin a long time ago. An absolute nutcase who would sell his own granny if it made him relevant for 30 seconds. 

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Malinga the Swinga
1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Absolutely. That’s why I wince at the danger of people like George Galloway who basically think the 1m+ Protestants in NI shouid be completely ignored about their views and wishes to remain part of the uk and unify Ireland. Incredibly dangerous views. The people who cheerlead him here now because he vehemently opposes the snp need to sort themselves out. 

I don't particularly like SNP, but cheerleading for Galloway should be a crime. George Galloway is concerned about one thing and one thing only,George Galloway. 

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John Findlay

The troubles were a dirty war, from both sides. One side just did a little bit more moaning when they were on the receiving end of the dirtiness.

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AlphonseCapone

He's entitled to his views but most folk would consider anyone that supports an organisation that murders innocent people to be pretty vile.

 

There are too many people supporting on both sides of this conflict that say things, sing things, write things etc from a very outside perspective, and don't have the emotional scars and trauma others do. Therefore to them they see it either academically or in "glorious war" terms. The fact is, horrendous things were done across the board to thousands of innocent people and if you weren't directly caught up in it, you're best not to hold too strong a view. 

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CF11JamTart

I've read a couple of cracking books on The Troubles recently.

 

Troubles Songs... through the context of bands and music.

 

Say Nothing... focusing on The Disappeared, Jean McConville specifically. Very very good insight in to the role of Gerry Adams in it all. And Roy Greenslade get a mention too. 

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hmfc_liam06

A topic I know little of really...does anyone have any decent recommendations of books/documentaries around the Troubles?

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hmfc_liam06
Just now, CF11JamTart said:

I've read a couple of cracking books on The Troubles recently.

 

Troubles Songs... through the context of bands and music.

 

Say Nothing... focusing on The Disappeared, Jean McConville specifically. Very very good insight in to the role of Gerry Adams in it all. And Roy Greenslade get a mention too. 

 

I literally posted at the same time asking for book recommendations :lol:

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Salad Fingers
4 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

I've read a couple of cracking books on The Troubles recently.

 

Troubles Songs... through the context of bands and music.

 

Say Nothing... focusing on The Disappeared, Jean McConville specifically. Very very good insight in to the role of Gerry Adams in it all. And Roy Greenslade get a mention too. 

 

Just finished that book and it was excellent. One of the best written on the troubles. 

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Salad Fingers
4 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

A topic I know little of really...does anyone have any decent recommendations of books/documentaries around the Troubles?

 

There's loads I have read. Peter Taylor's two; Provos, the IRA and Sinn Fein & Loyalists are good for an insight into both sides. Chances are if you heard someone interviewing or reporting during the height of the troubles, it was Taylor. 

 

Martin Dillon's 'Dirty War' concentrates on the undercover war, double agents etc and has great chapters on Robert Nairac mentioned above. His 'Shankhill Butchers' book is probably one of the most disturbing books I have ever read but absolutely incredible. 

 

One of the best however IMO is 'Stakeknife' by Martin Ingram and Greg Harkin about Freddie Scapaticci. He was the head of the IRA's 'Nutting Squad' who tortured and forced confessions out of security forces informants, or "touts". Little did they know he was one of the best informants the British had. 

 

Fifty Dead Men Walking by Martin McGartland is similar, although he wasn't a big time IRA member (he actually hated the Provos) he was invaluable to the police at the time. There's a film made based on the book which is decent also. 

 

Others I would recommend are Contact by AFN Clarke and Phoenix by Jack Holland.  

 

Documentary wise, there are a few Peter Taylor ones on You Tube and also all seven parts of 'The Troubles - A Secret History' is on their as well. In fact there is loads on YouTube if you check the recommendations under other videos. YouTube is like a time capsule for stuff on the Troubles. 

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CF11JamTart
23 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

There's loads I have read. Peter Taylor's two; Provos, the IRA and Sinn Fein & Loyalists are good for an insight into both sides. Chances are if you heard someone interviewing or reporting during the height of the troubles, it was Taylor. 

 

 

One of the best however IMO is 'Stakeknife' by Martin Ingram and Greg Harkin about Freddie Scapaticci. He was the head of the IRA's 'Nutting Squad' who tortured and forced confessions out of security forces informants, or "touts". Little did they know he was one of the best informants the British had. 

 

 

Thanks for the Peter Taylor recommendations.

 

"Stakeknife" gets a few mentions in 'Say Nothing'. There's a lot of staggering stuff...

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jack D and coke
45 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

A topic I know little of really...does anyone have any decent recommendations of books/documentaries around the Troubles?

Plenty on YouTube bud. If I can find some of the ones I’ve watched I’ll post them. 

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jack D and coke
31 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

There's loads I have read. Peter Taylor's two; Provos, the IRA and Sinn Fein & Loyalists are good for an insight into both sides. Chances are if you heard someone interviewing or reporting during the height of the troubles, it was Taylor. 

 

Martin Dillon's 'Dirty War' concentrates on the undercover war, double agents etc and has great chapters on Robert Nairac mentioned above. His 'Shankhill Butchers' book is probably one of the most disturbing books I have ever read but absolutely incredible. 

 

One of the best however IMO is 'Stakeknife' by Martin Ingram and Greg Harkin about Freddie Scapaticci. He was the head of the IRA's 'Nutting Squad' who tortured and forced confessions out of security forces informants, or "touts". Little did they know he was one of the best informants the British had. 

 

Fifty Dead Men Walking by Martin McGartland is similar, although he wasn't a big time IRA member (he actually hated the Provos) he was invaluable to the police at the time. There's a film made based on the book which is decent also. 

 

Others I would recommend are Contact by AFN Clarke and Phoenix by Jack Holland.  

 

Documentary wise, there are a few Peter Taylor ones on You Tube and also all seven parts of 'The Troubles - A Secret History' is on their as well. In fact there is loads on YouTube if you check the recommendations under other videos. YouTube is like a time capsule for stuff on the Troubles. 

Nice👍🏼

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hmfc_liam06
1 hour ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

There's loads I have read. Peter Taylor's two; Provos, the IRA and Sinn Fein & Loyalists are good for an insight into both sides. Chances are if you heard someone interviewing or reporting during the height of the troubles, it was Taylor. 

 

Martin Dillon's 'Dirty War' concentrates on the undercover war, double agents etc and has great chapters on Robert Nairac mentioned above. His 'Shankhill Butchers' book is probably one of the most disturbing books I have ever read but absolutely incredible. 

 

One of the best however IMO is 'Stakeknife' by Martin Ingram and Greg Harkin about Freddie Scapaticci. He was the head of the IRA's 'Nutting Squad' who tortured and forced confessions out of security forces informants, or "touts". Little did they know he was one of the best informants the British had. 

 

Fifty Dead Men Walking by Martin McGartland is similar, although he wasn't a big time IRA member (he actually hated the Provos) he was invaluable to the police at the time. There's a film made based on the book which is decent also. 

 

Others I would recommend are Contact by AFN Clarke and Phoenix by Jack Holland.  

 

Documentary wise, there are a few Peter Taylor ones on You Tube and also all seven parts of 'The Troubles - A Secret History' is on their as well. In fact there is loads on YouTube if you check the recommendations under other videos. YouTube is like a time capsule for stuff on the Troubles. 

 

Cheers mate, loads on there for me to get stuck into.

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CF11JamTart
52 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Good company 

 

 

 

From 'Say Nothing', it sounds like Sands family very much fell-out with Adams and SF as time progressed. 

 

UK Gov apparently offered to give-in to demands, but it's unclear of that information was passed to the hunger strikers.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Good company 

 

 


The Green Brigade are kiddy-on provos

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Mikey1874
1 hour ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

From 'Say Nothing', it sounds like Sands family very much fell-out with Adams and SF as time progressed. 

 

UK Gov apparently offered to give-in to demands, but it's unclear of that information was passed to the hunger strikers.

 

Yeah.

 

UK Government's problem is their secrecy. As with some others the true story gives a different perspective on Margaret Thatcher. 

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The Shankhill Butchers book is great but horrific. Showed the troubles attracted psychopaths as much as it did ideologues, gangsters etc. 

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EH11_2NL

The Peter Taylor documentaries that he did on The Troubles are some of the best out there. What stunned me was just how intelligent and articulate some of the main players were on both sides (more so the Republican side to be honest) and you wonder how did they get so mixed up in some of the worst atrocities seen in the UK. Compulsive viewing and utterly bingeworthy.

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8 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

The Peter Taylor documentaries that he did on The Troubles are some of the best out there. What stunned me was just how intelligent and articulate some of the main players were on both sides (more so the Republican side to be honest) and you wonder how did they get so mixed up in some of the worst atrocities seen in the UK. Compulsive viewing and utterly bingeworthy.

Very well made programme. 

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Salad Fingers

The Scottish Soldiers Killings documentary is on YouTube as well. Such a horrific event and a bit of a watershed in the troubles in terms of how the soldiers on the streets, especially those from the Royal Highland Fusiliers, treated the Catholic population. When they came back from the funerals of their colleagues they were out for blood. 

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NANOJAMBO
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah.

 

UK Government's problem is their secrecy. As with some others the true story gives a different perspective on Margaret Thatcher. 

Loudly proclaiming she'd never negotiate with terrorists (she even had the BBC muzzle the words of any IRA people like Adams when doing public speaking so they didn't have "the oxygen of publicity" ) but then it transpires she was negotiating all along.

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jack D and coke
25 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Loudly proclaiming she'd never negotiate with terrorists (she even had the BBC muzzle the words of any IRA people like Adams when doing public speaking so they didn't have "the oxygen of publicity" ) but then it transpires she was negotiating all along.

I remember that. Always voiced by an actor :lol: 

Imagine Maggie lying to the British public too eh

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Carl Fredrickson
7 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

A topic I know little of really...does anyone have any decent recommendations of books/documentaries around the Troubles?

 

Iplayer had a section titles The Troubles with loads of documentaries that I found very enlightening but also hard to watch at times. 

 

Cant remember many of the names of the shows but one was Spotlight On The Troubles  

 

Edit: Shooting The Darkness is another one about iconic photos of the troubles. 

Edited by Carl Fredrickson
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NANOJAMBO
7 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

A topic I know little of really...does anyone have any decent recommendations of books/documentaries around the Troubles?

This ITV series from 1980 ( I saw it 1st time around) was pretty controversial/ground breaking in its time as N Ireland/Ireland had always been a taboo subject.  Would recommend.

 

There was a docu (one off , IIRC) about the priest in Derry/Belfast who was acting as a go-between for the IRA/MI5 ceasefire which is superb. Sorry , can't recall any details but it was done fairly recently and is well worth a watch if you can find it. Maybe someone on here can recall it. 

 

 

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JDK2020
23 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Anyone supporting any terrorist organisation that kills people is a scumbag .

 

That's Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell right there. They are every bit as bad as Greenslade.

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jack D and coke

I’ve downloaded a couple of the books Salad Fingers and a few others have mentioned for free btw if anyone wants the details of where to get. 
Onto my iPad these will do for starters👍🏼

 

BE2B82B5-6FB1-4CB8-9BDC-13CAEF919D38.png

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Geoff Kilpatrick

The Dirty War by Martin Dillon is where you should start reading about The Troubles.

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