Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said: It's cruel to animals. Due to the cruelty of running what would you like to see a horse do ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sooperstar Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: You saw the way the wanks who ran Cheltenham rammed 10s of thousands into their racecourse last year as the pandemic took hold. The blame there lies with the Government, whose rules and guidance they were operating under, for not acting quick enough. The same goes for Liverpool v Atletico Madrid which was allowed to take place on the Wednesday the same week the festival took place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 33 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: Due to the cruelty of running what would you like to see a horse do ? Don't be silly.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said: Don't be silly.. Have you ever watched a horse race ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: Have you ever watched a horse race ? No, I don't support animal cruelty in sport in any way. Edited March 2 by Weakened Offender Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: No, I don't support animal cruelty in sport in any way. So you haven't seen any cruelty to a horse at a horse race then That makes two of us Edited March 2 by Maroon Sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Taffin Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 13 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: So you haven't seen any cruelty to a horse at a horse race then That makes two of us That's just such a ridiculous argument 😂😂 I've seen cruelty to a horse at a horse race, but that's actually besides the point, or are you going to say the hundreds of horses that die per year involved in horse racing is just pure coincidence and not because what's being done to/expected of them is causing it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Taffin said: That's just such a ridiculous argument 😂😂 I've seen cruelty to a horse at a horse race, but that's actually besides the point, or are you going to say the hundreds of horses that die per year involved in horse racing is just pure coincidence and not because what's being done to/expected of them is causing it? How is it a ridiculous argument. He's saying horse racing is cruel to horses ? I can say showjumping is the same Doesn't mean it's cruel - it's not barbaric asking a horse to jump over planks of wood There are a lot worse things that happen to horses than running 6 furlongs at Musselburgh Edited March 2 by Maroon Sailor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: So you haven't seen any cruelty to a horse at a horse race then That makes two of us I think you're possibly choosing the wrong thread to deny that there's cruelty in and within horse racing. Edited March 2 by Weakened Offender Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Taffin Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, Maroon Sailor said: How is it a ridiculous argument. He's saying horse racing is cruel to horses ? I can say showjumping is the same Doesn't mean it's cruel You're suggesting that because he hasn't seen it in a race, it therefore doesn't exist. I've never seen the Taj Mahal, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Making animals compete to a level where they have heart attacks or fall and get shot is cruel in mine, and @Weakened Offender opinion. You've got a different one where that's an okay thing to do, but argue that point rather than dismissing his point just because he hasn't see it first hand. If you're not making that point then apologies, though I don't know what point you are making in that case. Would it be cruel if I put a dog on a treadmill until it fell off and hurts itself or died from exhaustion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: I think you're possibly choosing the wrong thread to deny that there's cruelty in and within horse racing. Wait a minute - I'm not denying anything. I've nothing to deny. You said horse racing was cruel despite never ever seeing a horse race. How can you possibly come to that conclusion that it's cruel ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 5 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: Wait a minute - I'm not denying anything. I've nothing to deny. You said horse racing was cruel despite never ever seeing a horse race. How can you possibly come to that conclusion that it's cruel ? I've never witnessed a murder either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 The Grand National is cruel. The fences are ridiculous and have a high risk of injury. It’s not like the horses can consent. The equivalent of dragging a bunch of folk up Everest, some of them dying and everyone gambling on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 6 minutes ago, Taffin said: You're suggesting that because he hasn't seen it in a race, it therefore doesn't exist. I've never seen the Taj Mahal, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Making animals compete to a level where they have heart attacks or fall and get shot is cruel in mine, and @Weakened Offender opinion. You've got a different one where that's an okay thing to do, but argue that point rather than dismissing his point just because he hasn't see it first hand. If you're not making that point then apologies, though I don't know what point you are making in that case. Would it be cruel if I put a dog on a treadmill until it fell off and hurts itself or died from exhaustion? You know the Taj Mahal exists Might not have been there but I'll bet you have seen it on the telly All I'm saying is and I'm an animal lover is I don't see horse racing as being cruel. I have seen animals badly mis-treat that makes my stomach churn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: I've never witnessed a murder either. A deliberate act you mean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 6 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: You know the Taj Mahal exists Might not have been there but I'll bet you have seen it on the telly All I'm saying is and I'm an animal lover is I don't see horse racing as being cruel. I have seen animals badly mis-treat that makes my stomach churn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 13 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: That's good they have these reviews. Anything to make things safer I noticed Southwell, Lingfield and Newcastle are in the top 5 as the deadliest courses. They are all weather tracks so there might be something in that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shanks Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Of course horse racing is cruel Although it is far from the worst and only way that humans treat animals like shit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rambothejambo Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 On 01/03/2021 at 14:50, HamishMcGonagall said: Can't believe anyone, never mind a high profile trainer such as he, would sit upon a dead horse like that. Horse racing as a sport has to fight against people's perceptions of animal cruelty. A photo like that does nothing to help their claim of giving horses a better life than they'd otherwise have out with the sport or how they are so well looked after etc. I like a bet. Infact my username here is after a horse which once won me a fair bit of money at Musselburgh races. But that picture sickens me. And his excuse is a feeble one. Well said, love a bet myself. Having a wee brother who lives in Cheltenham has cost me quite a few quid (but some memorable days) at the Festival. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, Weakened Offender said: No, I don't support animal cruelty in sport in any way. Ignoring that horse racing isn't cruel in any way, I presume from your comments that you do approve of animal cruelty if it benefits, helps or entertains you. Testing vaccines on them okay, is it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
windsor1874 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said: That's good they have these reviews. Anything to make things safer I noticed Southwell, Lingfield and Newcastle are in the top 5 as the deadliest courses. They are all weather tracks so there might be something in that. Pretty sure (could be wrong) but are Southwell, Lingfield, Kempton and Newcastle not both jumps and flat; therefore have more meetings than courses that only do one type. Plus, floodlit allweather tracks have more meetings per year than grass tracks and so you would expect more injuries/deaths. What I'm saying is it's not necessarily the surface. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maroon Sailor Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 minutes ago, windsor1874 said: Pretty sure (could be wrong) but are Southwell, Lingfield, Kempton and Newcastle not both jumps and flat; therefore have more meetings than courses that only do one type. Plus, floodlit allweather tracks have more meetings per year than grass tracks and so you would expect more injuries/deaths. What I'm saying is it's not necessarily the surface. Good points 👍 Probably sums up statistics in general 😄 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 14 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Ignoring that horse racing isn't cruel in any way Yeah OK, we'll just ignore that and blether away online about all the stuff that you want to chat about. 😁 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said: Yeah OK, we'll just ignore that and blether away online about all the stuff that you want to chat about. 😁 Okay, let's debate it. I say it's not cruel and I can back that up by my visits to racecourses and stables. Met loads of trainers and owners in New case, Musselburgh and Perth. Visited stables in Scotland and the care the horses receive is first rate. Anyone caught abusing one of the horses would be run out the door if they were lucky, else trainer/ staff would string them up. I also argue that these horses are bred to race and have before hundreds of years. It's in their DNA to race. Horse racing can still make improvements in sport, but it is tryeand deserves to continue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 24 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Okay, let's debate it. I say it's not cruel and I can back that up by my visits to racecourses and stables. Met loads of trainers and owners in New case, Musselburgh and Perth. Visited stables in Scotland and the care the horses receive is first rate. Anyone caught abusing one of the horses would be run out the door if they were lucky, else trainer/ staff would string them up. I also argue that these horses are bred to race and have before hundreds of years. It's in their DNA to race. Horse racing can still make improvements in sport, but it is tryeand deserves to continue. OK, I believe someone on the Internet. 😁 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Peakybunnet Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The Grand National is cruel. The fences are ridiculous and have a high risk of injury. It’s not like the horses can consent. The equivalent of dragging a bunch of folk up Everest, some of them dying and everyone gambling on it. Think there is 1 horse died in the race over the last 9 years. Not saying it is safe as all horse races carry a risk. You would be surprised how many horses die racing on the flat. A small trip is all it needs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Candy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, windsor1874 said: Pretty sure (could be wrong) but are Southwell, Lingfield, Kempton and Newcastle not both jumps and flat; therefore have more meetings than courses that only do one type. Plus, floodlit allweather tracks have more meetings per year than grass tracks and so you would expect more injuries/deaths. What I'm saying is it's not necessarily the surface. Probably the most sensible post on this thread Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Candy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The Grand National is cruel. The fences are ridiculous and have a high risk of injury. It’s not like the horses can consent. The equivalent of dragging a bunch of folk up Everest, some of them dying and everyone gambling on it. The fences are a lot lower nowadays than they used to be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Candy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 7 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: You saw the way the wanks who ran Cheltenham rammed 10s of thousands into their racecourse last year as the pandemic took hold. 7 hours ago, jack D and coke said: Jockey club donates to tory party. Dispatches programme on C4 claimed that’s why it was allowed to go ahead. We played St Mirren away the same week. Absolutely nothing to do with any political party or who runs cheltenham Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mutley Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The Grand National is cruel. The fences are ridiculous and have a high risk of injury. It’s not like the horses can consent. The equivalent of dragging a bunch of folk up Everest, some of them dying and everyone gambling on it. Do you mind if I pitch this to channel 5? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said: OK, I believe someone on the Internet. 😁 Don't care what you believe. You wanted a debate, I made my argument and you have nothing to offer because you have no idea of the subject or any clue what arguments to bring. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Malinga the Swinga Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 11 minutes ago, Candy said: We played St Mirren away the same week. Absolutely nothing to do with any political party or who runs cheltenham But it suits the argument of the ill informed. If in doubt, blame the Tories. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Weakened Offender Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 10 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said: Don't care what you believe. Good to hear. Off you pop then. 😊 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sooperstar Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Weakened Offender said: The whip issue is a bit of a red herring. It doesn't hurt the horse. It is air cushioned and is designed to produce a noise the the horse reacts to through decades of breeding. I could whip you with it and it wouldn't hurt you. The reason their are restrictions on it's use in races are largely for the 'visuals' of a horse being flogged to make it go faster. 1 horse in every 500 runners loses their life. On the earlier comment someone made about the Grand National, it is nowhere close to being as dangerous race as it was even a few years ago. Massive improvements have been made to make it safer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 hours ago, Shanks said: Of course horse racing is cruel Although it is far from the worst and only way that humans treat animals like shit. slowly getting better tho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 47 minutes ago, Sooperstar said: The whip issue is a bit of a red herring. It doesn't hurt the horse. It is air cushioned and is designed to produce a noise the the horse reacts to through decades of breeding. I could whip you with it and it wouldn't hurt you. The reason their are restrictions on it's use in races are largely for the 'visuals' of a horse being flogged to make it go faster. 1 horse in every 500 runners loses their life. On the earlier comment someone made about the Grand National, it is nowhere close to being as dangerous race as it was even a few years ago. Massive improvements have been made to make it safer. seriously that whip thing doesn’t hurt? would it be worth using an electronic noise maker and not actually hit the horse? is that 1/500 lose their life on the track? what about the ones that are no good etc what happens to them? hasnt the death rate in the grand national increased since they made it safer? I thought I saw that reported somewhere Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 The bird he was allegedly nailing looks like absolute filth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sooperstar Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 14 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said: hasnt the death rate in the grand national increased since they made it safer? I thought I saw that reported somewhere There were 6 years without a death until the most recent race in 2019. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, Sooperstar said: There were 6 years without a death until the most recent race in 2019. thats good news - I don’t think it answers the question tho despite modifications to the fences the death rate increased apparently Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonesy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 5 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The Grand National is cruel. The fences are ridiculous and have a high risk of injury. It’s not like the horses can consent. The equivalent of dragging a bunch of folk up Everest, some of them dying and everyone gambling on it. Sounds like a great idea for a tv show, tbf. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 minutes ago, jonesy said: Sounds like a great idea for a tv show, tbf. I’d be up for it, as long as it was the right type of people Quote Link to post Share on other sites
I P Knightley Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 56 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: The bird he was allegedly nailing looks like absolute filth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sooperstar Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 40 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said: thats good news - I don’t think it answers the question tho despite modifications to the fences the death rate increased apparently The fences were changed significantly in 2013, which was the start of the 6 year period without deaths. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sooperstar Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, I P Knightley said: She looks a fairly young lassie. The story doing the rounds is a bit far fetched and involves Elliott and this lassie going all in behind the bar at his yard, with Elliott's girlfriend (Kate Harrington, daughter of trainer Jessica) in attendance. Kate sees them and starts fighting with the lassie and instead of stopping it Elliott cheers them on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonesy Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 37 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: I’d be up for it, as long as it was the right type of people Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 19 minutes ago, Sooperstar said: The fences were changed significantly in 2013, which was the start of the 6 year period without deaths. thats good news although there were only 2 deaths in the 40s and 2 deaths in the 60s - there were a few more in the 50s but that 30 year period would stand up well against the more recent ‘safer’ periods the fences have been being modified for years before 2013 - bechers brook became a shadow of its former glory years before 2013 in fact I think they filled the brook in Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zico Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Horse deaths on the racecourse are always sad but to provide some context to some of the figures provided, racehorses are more than three times likely to die of colic than on the course. They’re large, strong, powerful animals but due to their physiology, they often die of things that, for humans, are relatively minor. I’ll say what I did earlier though, Elliot is a ****ing arsehole for having that photo taken. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jack D and coke Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 15 hours ago, Candy said: We played St Mirren away the same week. Absolutely nothing to do with any political party or who runs cheltenham Could Scotland have locked down sooner? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Candy Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 36 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Could Scotland have locked down sooner? Yes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jack D and coke Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 3 minutes ago, Candy said: Yes. Got a link to something I can read? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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