Sobering Stats

[Bazzas right boot]

13 minutes ago, brawlad74 said:

This season is all about means to an end with promotion but Hell's teeth, they could be entertaining us as well. They have done so in half the games but plodded thru or were outplayed in rest. Last week was different fast paced and direct from start tho struggled in last 15 but massive win. More of the same today please and lads especially GMS let's put those chances away. 

 

Although we have plodded, especially in the first half of games, what games were we outplayed in? 

 

Last week I thought we were out played at times far more than any of our defeats or draws. 

 

I think in general the stats back up that we haven't been outplayed often, if at all in this league. 

 

 

 

 

[davemclaren]

43 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

Think there's a difference between struggle and our points tally. We are where we are because the rest are not good enough to get much closer and a lot of those points have been a struggle to win. I think that's more to the point. If only one other club could've went on a run and stayed close to us then it could easily have been squeaky-bum time. Thankfully though we have pretty-much done enough to create a big enough gap. As each game disappears towards the end of the season i feel less stressed week by week. That win last week was a massive boost and a big sigh of relief. Today, nothing less than three points is good enough, and it's another pain in the arse game out the way towards our return.

Given my lifetime of following Hearts, and the many crushing disappointments on the way, I’ll still have lingering doubts until it’s mathematically impossible not to win the league. I agree that last week was a huge step on the way though. 

[brawlad74]

14 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Although we have plodded, especially in the first half of games, what games were we outplayed in? 

 

Last week I thought we were out played at times far more than any of our defeats or draws. 

 

I think in general the stats back up that we haven't been outplayed often, if at all in this league. 

 

 

 

 

Out played by Pars, Raith and Dundee looked ropey at times v QoS and even ICT recently. We were totally in charge last week at 2.0 then they came back strongly after pen but we saw it out thankfully.

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, brawlad74 said:

Out played by Pars, Raith and Dundee looked ropey at times v QoS and even ICT recently. We were totally in charge last week at 2.0 then they came back strongly after pen but we saw it out thankfully.

 

Not imo, Dundee yes. 

The rest no, the stats probably will back me up on that, but Cba checking and you'll argue back. No point. 

 

Even if going by your mantra, we've been outplayed in 3 games this season, how many games we played? 

 

Being "out played" even by your own admission above has been the exception rather than the rule, a rare one at that so hardly a reflection on the season as a whole. 

 

 

 

 

[KyleLafferty]

2 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Frear,Roberts, Kastaneer, White and I hope it doesn’t apply to Gnuanduillet. 

None of those players have performed elsewhere except Gnado.

[brawlad74]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Not imo, Dundee yes. 

The rest no, the stats probably will back me up on that, but Cba checking and you'll argue back. No point. 

 

Even if going by your mantra, we've been outplayed in 3 games this season, how many games we played? 

 

Being "out played" even by your own admission above has been the exception rather than the rule, a rare one at that so hardly a reflection on the season as a whole. 

 

 

 

 

As I said I'm more bothered about plodding thru games at pedestrian pace with little entertainment provided. Hoping that changes today and we carry on the (mainly) good work from last week

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

We aren't struggling. 

 

We will however drop points and won't win every game over a league season. If you expected us to win all 27 games then imo the expectations are unreal. 

 

The recent games I've watched, maybe with the exception of QoS we've dominated imo, created lots, gave away goals generally due to errors and had poor finishing. 

The possession, shots off target, on target and corners without checking will back that up I believe. 

That is subjective tho. 

 

What isn't, is that we are top by a distance. That suggests being comfortable over the season. 

 

People keep mentioning the " budget". 

It is now tiresome, the team with the biggest budget and best players should win the league, they shouldn't win every game, football isn't played on a spreadsheet. 

 

I expect the likes of Dunfermline, Dundee to give us a game the same way I'd expect us to give rangers or Celtic a game. 

If Celtic tanked us 5-0 every game, I wouldn't have the attitude of "oh well, they have 10x the budget" - I'd be pissed off. So would you be. The same logic  applies to us playing the likes Dundee, just in reverse. 

 

 

We're top by a distance. 

The budget talk has been done to Death. 

 

You'll continue to be disappointed/ suprised if you base every game on budget. Football doesn't work like that on a game by game basis. 

 

 

 

As I’ve said now a few times, I dispute the article which says there’s a perception we’ve laboured in games that isn’t true. It is true we laboured in a few games out with the three we’ve lost and drawn. I mistakenly used the word struggling, and I didn’t mean in general just in certain games. 
As for budget it’s relevant when the article says we’ve dominated more than the last four winners whose budgets were much lower than ours this season, also the competitions has dropped too. 
I realise my expectations are unreal. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Robbie Leveinson..... 

 

****ing hell, tragic. 

Not angry, just disappointed in you! 

Thought you were better than that shite, but true colours shining through. 

It's not about results, it's personal and there are grown men in our support that actually merge Robbie and CL together and get a kick out of it. 

 

Another one who is now in a place where Hearts give him no joy, can't celebrate wins, gets proven correct if we have a poor result. 

What a shitty position to be in. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was a joke ffs 😆

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, OldGorgie said:

Fairly obvious that RN has put in place a workman like squad, most of whom would have been turned down flat by JJ. Having watched the training video, I get the distinct impression that there is a clique amongst several players who make it extremely difficult for new players to settle in. Just watch the body language of some of the recent signings.

I thought that too but wasn’t sure, Halliday looked like an outlier. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

It was a joke ffs 😆

 

Shite joke. 😜

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

As I’ve said now a few times, I dispute the article which says there’s a perception we’ve laboured in games that isn’t true. It is true we laboured in a few games out with the three we’ve lost and drawn. I mistakenly used the word struggling, and I didn’t mean in general just in certain games. 
As for budget it’s relevant when the article says we’ve dominated more than the last four winners whose budgets were much lower than ours this season, also the competitions has dropped too. 
I realise my expectations are unreal. 

 

All fair!

Hope we get the win today!.

[Franksluckypants]

Stats improved today a tad...😬😚

[Brick Tamland]

The only stat that matters is this. 
Some folk losing themselves in their own piss and snotters trying to convince everyone that we are shite and we are struggling. The league table tells a very different story but let’s not let facts get in the way of a nappy fest. 
 

[No Idle Talk]

I don't care how sobering the stats are. I still effin love Hearts. ❤

[Bazzas right boot]

43 minutes ago, Brick Tamland said:

The only stat that matters is this. 
Some folk losing themselves in their own piss and snotters trying to convince everyone that we are shite and we are struggling. The league table tells a very different story but let’s not let facts get in the way of a nappy fest. 
 

 

 

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

48 minutes ago, Brick Tamland said:

The only stat that matters is this. 
Some folk losing themselves in their own piss and snotters trying to convince everyone that we are shite and we are struggling. The league table tells a very different story but let’s not let facts get in the way of a nappy fest. 
 

 

We are currently on a win percentage of 70%

[eyesandears]

And so it continues.

 

Top from the very first whistle of the season. 

WWWLWWWWWLWLWWWDDDWW

 

There are of course changes needed to strengthen for next season but right now as sobering stats go the league table and our current run of results is indisputable. 

[davemclaren]

40 minutes ago, eyesandears said:

And so it continues.

 

Top from the very first whistle of the season. 

WWWLWWWWWLWLWWWDDDWW

 

There are of course changes needed to strengthen for next season but right now as sobering stats go the league table and our current run of results is indisputable. 

You need a good drink. 😎

[jambo89]

There's no doubting we are worse this time round under Robbie than we were 5 years ago. But I am certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least the first 6 months of next season 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

13 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

There's no doubting we are worse this time round under Robbie than we were 5 years ago. But I am certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least the first 6 months of next season 

 

I"m not sure you can compare when we were in the Premiership under Robbie with now. You can't even really compare to to when we were last in the Championship, even though we're arguably doing a better job of getting promoted quickly this time.

 

In 14/15 Hibs and Rangers and half-decent Falkirk and QoS sides were in the Champ with us. So teams, if they wanted to get in the playoffs etc, had to try to win the games against the better teams. They didn't camp out in their own half or even penalty box the way teams are against us this season.

 

All teams want to do against us this season is 1) not lose or 2) not get a hiding. They know they can still get 2nd by doing that and then doing well against the teams at their level. It's completely different to last time we were in the Champ and it's no wonder our performances look turgid, especially on TV, because we're basically spending 90 mins trying to break through a brick wall most games.

Edited March 14, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Spellczech]

I think when the fans get back we need to be united in letting the players know what is and is not good enough. I've never been a boo-boy but if it is the only way to get this squad to realise that they cannot just coast through their contracts at Hearts then I'll boo bad performances from the first game of the season...At the moment I'm wanting to boo the effing television!

 

I tried to give Budge the benefit of the doubt but the contrast of how she treated Stendel versus Levein and Cathro wasn't good, and the interview where she said that the club had a high basic wage and little in the way of incentives decided it for me - she's an entrepreneur not a businesswoman. Basically she got lucky inthe business world and running a football club effectively is beyond her.

 

Everyone at the club needs to buck up their ideas after sleepwalking through this season. Budge, the manager and the players all need to do more, and do better...

[Guest ToqueJambo]

56 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

boo bad performances from the first game of the season

 

First game back after a pandemic and no football to go to and you'll boo? Each to their own I suppose.

[brux]

Can anyone recall the last time we played a cup match against lower division club while in the Premier league and it was peppered with free flowing football?  My recollection is that these games were always a tough slog winning by the odd goal or 2.  This season is 27 matches of Cup games for all these championship teams.

[davemclaren]

40 minutes ago, brux said:

Can anyone recall the last time we played a cup match against lower division club while in the Premier league and it was peppered with free flowing football?  My recollection is that these games were always a tough slog winning by the odd goal or 2.  This season is 27 matches of Cup games for all these championship teams.

I remember some tough slogs against Junior teams, even in cup winning seasons. 

[brux]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I remember some tough slogs against Junior teams, even in cup winning seasons. 

Exactly my point.  Also last time in the championship these teams had to get up for a "Cup" game against us rangers and hibs, so once every 3 games, this time they only have to bring thier A game once every 9 games.  We were never gonna have a 5-0 great performances every match season. 

[Ray Gin]

8 hours ago, Spellczech said:

I think when the fans get back we need to be united in letting the players know what is and is not good enough. I've never been a boo-boy but if it is the only way to get this squad to realise that they cannot just coast through their contracts at Hearts then I'll boo bad performances from the first game of the season...At the moment I'm wanting to boo the effing television!

 

I tried to give Budge the benefit of the doubt but the contrast of how she treated Stendel versus Levein and Cathro wasn't good, and the interview where she said that the club had a high basic wage and little in the way of incentives decided it for me - she's an entrepreneur not a businesswoman. Basically she got lucky inthe business world and running a football club effectively is beyond her.

 

Everyone at the club needs to buck up their ideas after sleepwalking through this season. Budge, the manager and the players all need to do more, and do better...

 

I don't think I've ever seen a footballer play better after getting booed by his own fans. 

[jambo89]

12 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I"m not sure you can compare when we were in the Premiership under Robbie with now. You can't even really compare to to when we were last in the Championship, even though we're arguably doing a better job of getting promoted quickly this time.

 

In 14/15 Hibs and Rangers and half-decent Falkirk and QoS sides were in the Champ with us. So teams, if they wanted to get in the playoffs etc, had to try to win the games against the better teams. They didn't camp out in their own half or even penalty box the way teams are against us this season.

 

All teams want to do against us this season is 1) not lose or 2) not get a hiding. They know they can still get 2nd by doing that and then doing well against the teams at their level. It's completely different to last time we were in the Champ and it's no wonder our performances look turgid, especially on TV, because we're basically spending 90 mins trying to break through a brick wall most games.

 

I was comparing Robbies Championship run though (projected to earn 76 points this season versus 91 points the first time around).

 

This season is undoubtedly poorer than that championship season and, if I am reading you correctly, this league is far poorer in your opinion. Because this is a poorer / easier league, Hearts are finding it more difficult, is that what you are trying to say? apologies if I've picked you up wrong?

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by jambo89

[Spellczech]

11 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I don't think I've ever seen a footballer play better after getting booed by his own fans. 

I meant at 90 mins not during the match. It could be true that Scottish football is killing itself with managers who only want to play defensively and hope to hit on the break, but the way to counter that is not by playing one striker IMO...

[Ray Gin]

8 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

I was comparing Robbies Championship run though (projected to earn 76 points this season versus 91 points the first time around).

 

This season is undoubtedly poorer than that championship season and, if I am reading you correctly, this league is far poorer in your opinion. 

 

 

Looks like we need Levein back as DoF   

[Jamhammer]

On 13/03/2021 at 11:08, Dazo said:

I think laboured is probably about right. In a nutshell we are going to piss this league but we’ll need to step it up a few gears next season. Looking at Robbie’s history with us suggests he’ll make that step up, I think he’s worth the opportunity to see. 

As hard as it is to watch most of the games I’d imagine next season there will be less teams parking the bus.

However we MUST improve in midfield and add pace. The reason we can’t break teams down is we pass the ball so slowly they, almost always have time to reset.

Scoring once they tire is great but having to wait for this to happen is causing a lot of the supporter angst.

I don’t believe for 1 minute RN’s position will be under any pressure at all, regardless of performances unless RESULTS next season are not forthcoming 

[mitch41]

Yes the stats are sobering. Do we kid ourselves on about players and the management? Yes we probably do. When you take a cold hard look at our First Team Squad how many would you want in the SPL to make a challenge next season for a top six position? Probably not many. Yes we are all guilty of overrating players yet we can recognise the players that are never going to be any use that is easy, but for instance Halkett, Halliday, GMS, Naismith, Henderson you get the idea will they be an asset in the SPL ? Probably not. Then you look at the manager & staff. Yes Robbie can talk about the future, his and the clubs ideas, targets, the team/players and comes over as if he’s the man but after games after another dismal performance many fans I speak to who watched the game think he was watching another game. Is our management good enough to manage and coach Hearts? Probably not.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

I was comparing Robbies Championship run though (projected to earn 76 points this season versus 91 points the first time around).

 

This season is undoubtedly poorer than that championship season and, if I am reading you correctly, this league is far poorer in your opinion. Because this is a poorer / easier league, Hearts are finding it more difficult, is that what you are trying to say? apologies if I've picked you up wrong?

 

 

It is a much poorer league this time. My point was with us Hibs and Rangers in the league in 14/15, teams with playoff ambitions had to try to win some of those games not just try not to lose. 

 

This season with us guaranteed title winners, teams don't need to beat us to be in the playoffs. They just need to win the 9-team league below us.

 

So they're not trying to beat us, most of the time. My point is it's a poorer league but arguably a harder league football-wise because of how defensive teams are playing against us. I don't remember teams parking the bus against us anywhere near as much in 14/15.

Edited March 15, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[jambo89]

7 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It is a much poorer league this time. My point was with us Hibs and Rangers in the league in 14/15, teams with playoff ambitions had to try to win some of those games not just try not to lose. 

 

This season with us guaranteed title winners, teams don't need to beat us to be in the playoffs. They just need to win the 9-team league below us.

 

So they're not trying to beat us, most of the time. My point is it's a poorer league but arguably a harder league football-wise because of how defensive teams are playing against us. I don't remember teams parking the bus against us anywhere near as much in 14/15.

 

That season was 'guaranteed' to be rangers, hearts or h1b5 and all they had to do was win the 7 team league below them. I don't see how they would 'not try to beat us' back now but they were back then?

 

Surely there was even less chance of them winning the league and therefore sitting in. 

 

I can't believe anyone would argue that the current championship is a stronger / harder league than with Sevco and Hivs

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

That season was 'guaranteed' to be rangers, hearts or h1b5 and all they had to do was win the 7 team league below them. I don't see how they would 'not try to beat us' back now but they were back then?

 

Surely there was even less chance of them winning the league and therefore sitting in. 

 

I can't believe anyone would argue that the current championship is a stronger / harder league than with Sevco and Hivs

 

 

 

 

Are you saying teams in 14/15 defended the way they have this season, even at their own grounds? That's not how I remember it. There was us, Hibs and Rangers, plus Falkirk and QoS were half decent. Teams had to win games to get into the playoffs. Whatever the reason (no need to entertain crowds on their own patch could be another), most teams just want to not get beat against us this season and they prepare and play accordingly. The games are harder - or at least harder to entertain and score lots of goals - than 14/15 because of that.

[Bazzas right boot]

On 13/03/2021 at 12:08, GinRummy said:

I agree, a lot of players have looked better at previous clubs than hearts. I think the examples you used of Kasteneer, Frear etc aren’t particularly good ones though. The players you mentioned were playing at really poor levels, reserves or not at all. Much has been said on here about the culture in the club, mentality of players signed, lack of leadership and high basic low bonus wage structure. (Not saying all of the things I just mentioned apply to our club but I believe some of them do).  I think we need to give things time to work and new directors and manager/coaches time to improve things though. It’s still early days. 

 

 

I get the gist of your reasoning but I couldn't say whether a player is in general better or worse at another club, the reason being I will watch him 20 plus times when he's at Hearts and if lucky, twice if he's at another club.

 

There are outliers, where players excel but in general how can any Hearts fan really make comment on another player and how well they played at other clubs with any authority, never mind make sweeping assumptions. 

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Smith's right boot

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I get the gist of your reasoning but I couldn't say whether a player is in general better or worse at another club, the reason being I will watch him 20 plus times when he's at Hearts and if lucky, twice if he's at another club.

 

There are outliers, where players excel but in general how can any Hearts fan really make comment on another player and how well they played at other clubs with any authority, never mind make sweeping assumptions. 

 

 

 

Fair. If some of the disastrous signings we’ve had weren’t better at other clubs it’s even more damning for the people who brought them her though. Guys like Damour, Whelan and Vanecek must surely have been better at previous clubs. You don’t need to watch them to realise that imo. While other like Bozanic, Wighton and Garrucio were just playing at a level they couldn’t manage to play at. Don’t know what’s been worse, failing to realise players signed couldn’t step up to our level, or signing players who couldn’t make it even though they’d played at a higher or similar level. 
 

Our signing policy is indefensible either way.