Vegetarian / Veganism

[Fitzroy Pointon]

It seems that every second advert these days is promoting a vegan or vegetarian diet. I can't remember the last time I seen an advert for a meat product. Most food adverts, even for supermarkets, are plant based food heavy. There is a particular one where a young girl comes home from school to tell her dad she no longer wants to eat meat. 

 

Are we seeing a shift in the way people eat? I probably won't ever stop eating meat unless it was on the advice of a doctor so I am not sure what makes people completely change their diet to exclude meat. 

 

Has anyone on here decided to become vegetarian or vegan recently and if so, what prompted this? 

[Taffin]

I think it's a good idea to promote it more as a normal thing. I'd like to eat less meat but never know what alternatives there are and stuff like the ads help.

 

I'll never give it up, but I'd like to reduce for the environmental impact though.

 

Preachy vegans though make me want to eat even more meat though. I saw something about white veganism the other day and just thought the world has gone mad.

[Cade]

I'm reducing my intake of meat a bit for various economic and ecological reasons.
Of all the farmland on earth that is able to be used for producing crops, about 1/3 of it is instead used for animal pasture.
Another 1/3 is used to grow crops to feed those animals and only 1/3 is used to grow crops to feed humans.

Animals produce a ton of waste, especially gasses which are known to contribute to atmospheric problems.
The amount of fresh drinking water that animals need is vast, at a time when access to fresh drinking water for humans is in doubt.
Entire ecosystems are being destroyed to expand the footprint of animal farming and it's simply unsustainable.
If reducing our meat intake leads to less farmland being used to raise and feed animals and more of it being used to feed humans and save water along the way, then it's surely a good thing.

Me reducing my meat intake has nothing at all to do with moral reasons.
The meat we buy in the UK is guaranteed to come from a source with a minimum standard of care for the animals.

As long as the beasts are produced, reared, kept and killed with acceptable standards then I have no moral problem with eating meat.

Animals we farm are given medical care from birth through to death and never suffer things like; death from drought or famine, being eaten alive by predators, dying of exposure, wasting away from various diseases or dying of old age because they can't feed themselves any more. If they've got a bad disease, we put them down quickly and minimise suffering.
Over the last three hundred years of intensive selective breeding, we've produced a range of animals that could never survive in the wild without human aid anyways.

If you turned all the farm animals loose tomorrow, you'd just end up with tens of millions of dead animals in just a couple of months.

 

It's nice to have variety in my diet too. Love me some falafels or roasted spiced cauliflower or a veggie stir fry. 

I'm not one of those that tries to directly replace meat products with veggie fakes. They are never, ever as good as the meat version.

Let veg be veg. It's good enough to stand on it's own merits.

 

Veg tends to be cheaper than meat too, unless you're buying the very cheapest, crappiest, water injected, bland, horrible, intensively reared meat on the market.

And that's nearly always a false economy.
Very cheap meat is manky.

 

Since I'm not having meat every day, I'm happy to spend a wee bit more on better quality stuff when I do have it.

Not the hyper-expensive, aspirational organic guff that supermarkets are making a killing on flogging to the middle classes.
You can quite easily overpay for meat that's really not worth the extra expense.

Just slightly better quality meat than I was buying before.

Better standard of care for the beasties, more flavour for me, less meat demand on the system.

 

I'm also very happy to buy the bits and bobs of animals that most people overlook. 

Gone are the days of just a few select cuts.

Oxtail, shin of beef, tongue, liver, kidneys, hearts, sweetbreads, belly of lamb, pig trotters, marrowbones, you name it. I'll give it a go.
It's cheaper than the prime cuts, tastes better, shows respect to the beast that died to provide it, reduces industry waste and all it costs you is a bit of extra work (or just plain longer cooking times) than the traditional cuts that you'll see vac-packed in the chiller cabinets.

 

[Dawnrazor]

We only buy farmed meat for my son, burgers and that's about it. We never have lamb or chicken, neither of us like lamb and since we've not had our own chickens we do without, I don't like how they're reared.

The estate I live on has a small herd of Luing cattle, they live ouside all year and have no supplementary food other than a couple of mineral blocks for the calving cows, they're totally self sufficient. When one of the Bullock's goes to the slaughter house, we buy half of one, does us all year. I'd not buy beef from cattle that have been inside a shed and fed on barley, silage and supplements, that's the kind of meat that uses large amounts of energy to produce, you can really taste the difference between that and the free range beef.

The rest of the meat we eat I get myself, venison and game, wild, free range, organic and has lived a pretty good life compared with the housed poultry and beef available in supermarkets, not for me.

I'm lactose intolerant and my wife stopped dairy and most meat a few years ago on the advice of her Dr, it's really helped her arthritis. So we're not either veggie or vegan but are particular where our meat comes from.

I earn a living from repairing damage done to the uplands by generations of sheep farming, due largely to how EU grants have been handed out, these are changing now thankfully but I see the damge agricultural can do, and also the good, on a daily basis.

The UK needs agriculture but it needs to be sympathetic to the environment. 

Veganism or vegetarianism isn't a panacea to all the worlds problems. Agricultural problems occur abroad buy the demand for all kinds of fruit and veg that people demand all year round, if people bought from locally sourced meat and vegetables, were prepared to do without certain things out of season, that would go a huge way to reducing the energy and air miles pof our food, but very few will.

The damage being to producing meat in South America and also Palm Oil is ridiculous, also the damage done to fish stocks for fishmeal to feed other fish and animals so we can eat them is unsustainable.

[Tazio]

Meat will be more acceptable if people don’t expect it all done for them. I bought a nice corn fed chicken yesterday. I’ll get a few meals out of it and use the whole thing. It cost less than a pack of two organic chicken breasts. I like to buy cheap cuts of meat as well as they’ve more flavour a lot of the time. I’d sooner spent £3 on pork shoulder steaks than double that on pork chops with less flavour. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

I could never be either vegetarian or vegan,  but I have more respect for the vegans.

 

Vegetarians won't eat an animals, often for ethical reasons, but they are ok with chickens being farmed for eggs,  cows for milk etc.

 

At least vegans really mean it, y'know?

Edited January 16, 2021 by A Boy Named Crow

[Tazio]

Just now, A Boy Named Crow said:

I could never be either vegetarian or vegan,  but I have more respect for the vegans.

 

Vegetarians won't eat an animal, often for ethical reasons, but they are ok with chickens being farmed for eggs,  cows for milk etc.

 

At least vegans really mean it, y'know?

I don’t think that’s the case now. There is a new type of vegan that do it as it’s good for their health. Previous generations actually had a rough time keeping with their choice whereas it’s relatively easy now to find vegan food in any decent restaurant. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

46 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I don’t think that’s the case now. There is a new type of vegan that do it as it’s good for their health. Previous generations actually had a rough time keeping with their choice whereas it’s relatively easy now to find vegan food in any decent restaurant. 

Aye, my point was more that vegetarians won't eat animals, but they will use them for their produce, which tends to mean pretty rough conditions for the animals. At least vegans are consistent. 

 

Anyway,  like I said,  I could never be either.  Love a good steak...

[Tenaciousdandy]

I was vegan for a couple of years, I was vegetarian before that, I did go back to eating eat about 2 years ago but still enjoy a lot of meat free products, the amount that is available these days is amazing, especially the dairy free stuff which is great for me as I'm lactose intolerant, so was a forced vegan when I was veggie 

[Der Kaiser]

My canine teeth are for tearing meat....not lettuce.

 

As the great B Simpson once said...."You don't win friends with salad".

[Auld Reekin']

Eat some vegan dishes and meals, eat some veggie ones, but do neither out of any ethical or philosophical reasons, nor to make me feel self-righteous and that I'm saving the earth; I just also really like vegetables, as well as meat, fish, eggs, cheese and the like.

 

I've no problem with vegetarians, fish, egg & dairy eaters, or anything in between. Self-righteous, evangelical, militant vegans can go take a flying feck, however.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Auld Reekin'

[Tazio]

Just been reminded of the old joke. 

How can you tell someone’s a vegan? 
Because they’ll tell you within five minutes of meeting you. 

[hughesie27]

3 hours ago, Salad Fingers said:

It seems that every second advert these days is promoting a vegan or vegetarian diet. I can't remember the last time I seen an advert for a meat product. Most food adverts, even for supermarkets, are plant based food heavy. There is a particular one where a young girl comes home from school to tell her dad she no longer wants to eat meat. 

 

Are we seeing a shift in the way people eat? I probably won't ever stop eating meat unless it was on the advice of a doctor so I am not sure what makes people completely change their diet to exclude meat. 

 

Has anyone on here decided to become vegetarian or vegan recently and if so, what prompted this? 

It's "Veganuary" so you always get these adverts this time of year.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

Just been reminded of the old joke. 

How can you tell someone’s a vegan? 
Because they’ll tell you within five minutes of meeting you. 

 

I found the opposite living in rural France. As soon as anyone at a dinner party I was at saw that I wasn't eating meat (and not making a big fuss about it, I would hasten to add), they would start having a fair go at me, trying to argue that I was wrong in eschewing rather than chewing meat, so to speak, and that I should change my mind. As if that was going to work. Now if I'd have said it was due to my religion...

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I found the opposite living in rural France. As soon as anyone at a dinner party I was at saw that I wasn't eating meat (and not making a big fuss about it, I would hasten to add), they would start having a fair go at me, trying to argue that I was wrong in eschewing rather than chewing meat, so to speak, and that I should change my mind. As if that was going to work. Now if I'd have said it was due to my religion...

Well the french are rather evangelical about their food traditions. 

[redjambo]

42 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Well the french are rather evangelical about their food traditions. 

 

Indeed.

[frankblack]

6 hours ago, Auld Reekin' said:

Eat some vegan dishes and meals, eat some veggie ones, but do neither out of any ethical or philosophical reasons, nor to make me feel self-righteous and that I'm saving the earth; I just also really like vegetables, as well as meat, fish, eggs, cheese and the like.

 

I've no problem with vegetarians, fish, egg & dairy eaters, or anything in between. Self-righteous, evangelical, militant vegans can go take a flying feck, however.

 

I went vegetarian as a teenager because I didn't like meat and struggled to eat it growing up.  It became the easy solution and I've never looked back.

 

You don't miss something that was making you vomit.

 

I eat a mixture of vegetarian and vegan food - depends whatever is decent.

[FWJ]

I quite often have a meal without meat - roast veg and pasta or a veg curry etc.  
The thing I’ve noticed about a lot of vegan foodstuffs is that they are very highly processed with loads of additives.

 

And any diet that requires you to take artificial supplements / vitamins etc to maintain good health ain’t natural.

[Fitzroy Pointon]

6 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

It's "Veganuary" so you always get these adverts this time of year.

 

Ah that centuries old tradition. 

[Bill Bones]

5 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I found the opposite living in rural France. As soon as anyone at a dinner party I was at saw that I wasn't eating meat (and not making a big fuss about it, I would hasten to add), they would start having a fair go at me, trying to argue that I was wrong in eschewing rather than chewing meat, so to speak, and that I should change my mind. As if that was going to work. Now if I'd have said it was due to my religion... 

have to agree with this. im someone who naturally doesnt like to be the focus of attention in general and that is actually the hardest thing about being vegan especially for the first wee while. its a constamt barrage of questions, mostly genuine interest but with certain people you have to be really careful with your words as you don't want to hit a nerve and the converation ends up going in a direction its hard to turn back from. 

 

that never goes away completely but certainly worse in the first year or so. 

[Governor Tarkin]

5 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I found the opposite living in rural France. As soon as anyone at a dinner party I was at saw that I wasn't eating meat (and not making a big fuss about it, I would hasten to add), they would start having a fair go at me, trying to argue that I was wrong in eschewing rather than chewing meat, so to speak, and that I should change my mind. As if that was going to work. Now if I'd have said it was due to my religion...

 

I was vegetarian from the mid 90's until around 2012, and this was often my experience. Many meat eaters are zealots. Vegetarianism/veganism seems much more acceptable now.

 

5 hours ago, Tazio said:

Well the french are ****s

 

Agreed.

[John Findlay]

I'm quite happy being omnivorous.

[Dawnrazor]

9 hours ago, Tazio said:

Just been reminded of the old joke. 

How can you tell someone’s a vegan? 
Because they’ll tell you within five minutes of meeting you. 

[Marvin]

 

The only known cure for vegetarianism. 

[Sharpie]

My wifes favorite granddaughter went vegan. My wife would so look forward to her visits but would get frustrated trying to think of menus that would suit us all. She invariably settled for something for us, and something for the girl.

[Auld Reekin']

15 hours ago, Tazio said:

Meat will be more acceptable if people don’t expect it all done for them. I bought a nice corn fed chicken yesterday. I’ll get a few meals out of it and use the whole thing. It cost less than a pack of two organic chicken breasts. I like to buy cheap cuts of meat as well as they’ve more flavour a lot of the time. I’d sooner spent £3 on pork shoulder steaks than double that on pork chops with less flavour. 

 Just don't try cooking them as you would pork chops!   Agree with the rest of what you say though. 

[indianajones]

Everyone that eats meat should be able to kill and prepare the animal. 

 

Its far too detached these days. 

[Dawnrazor]

58 minutes ago, indianajones said:

Everyone that eats meat should be able to kill and prepare the animal. 

 

Its far too detached these days. 

Totally totally agree👍

It's the head in the sand to the millions of birds/animals that are killed each year to protect the food vegans and vegetarians eat that I find a bit hypocritical, don't get me wrong, I eat the things that need to be killed so vegans and vegetarians can eat so I'm happy with the deal! but people need to know and acknowledge that it goes on before they preach about "not being involved in animal death" because they are are, everyone is, there's virtually no getting away from it. The intention may be there but in practice everyone who eats anything is complicit😆

[indianajones]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

Totally totally agree👍

It's the head in the sand to the millions of birds/animals that are killed each year to protect the food vegans and vegetarians eat that I find a bit hypocritical, don't get me wrong, I eat the things that need to be killed so vegans and vegetarians can eat so I'm happy with the deal! but people need to know and acknowledge that it goes on before they preach about "not being involved in animal death" because they are are, everyone is, there's virtually no getting away from it. The intention may be there but in practice everyone who eats anything is complicit😆

 

Everyone is complicit in animal deaths. Even vegans. 

 

Pointed that out to a preachy vegan once that the very frame of their house, their flooring, their table etc is marked with FSC. Sustainable forestry practice to get these building goods involves the mass management (culling) of wild deer and other animals. Lets not even start with the use of oil and the products we create from it! 

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, indianajones said:

 

Everyone is complicit in animal deaths. Even vegans. 

 

Pointed that out to a preachy vegan once that the very frame of their house, their flooring, their table etc is marked with FSC. Sustainable forestry practice to get these building goods involves the mass management (culling) of wild deer and other animals. Lets not even start with the use of oil and the products we create from it! 

 

 

Head/Nail/Interface👍

 

[crunchy frog]

 

[Auld Reekin']

4 hours ago, indianajones said:

Everyone that eats meat should be able to kill and prepare the animal. 

 

Its far too detached these days. 

 

Can do, and have done, with trout, pheasants, and rabbits, with no problem at all. Might struggle a wee bit with a cow or a sheep (they're a lot bigger for a start!) but I daresay I could and would if I had to. Having said that, I'd be perfectly happy eating fish and small game instead anyway.

[indianajones]

6 minutes ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

Can do, and have done, with trout, pheasants, and rabbits, with no problem at all. Might struggle a wee bit with a cow or a sheep (they're a lot bigger for a start!) but I daresay I could and would if I had to. Having said that, I'd be perfectly happy eating fish and small game instead anyway.

 

Important life skills imo!

 

I really love a decent ribeye or a nice juicy beef burger but I do find myself agreeing with you. I'd happily eat fresh fish and small game for the rest of my days.

 

Spotted some rabbits up here for the first time in ages. Might see if i can go get some for the pot. You've reminded me how amazing those things taste. 

[Dawnrazor]

12 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Important life skills imo!

 

I really love a decent ribeye or a nice juicy beef burger but I do find myself agreeing with you. I'd happily eat fresh fish and small game for the rest of my days.

 

Spotted some rabbits up here for the first time in ages. Might see if i can go get some for the pot. You've reminded me how amazing those things taste. 

Rabbits are about 5 quid each just now😳😳

A really underrated meat, I wish more people sourced Rabbit, Pheasant or Partridge rather than just go for chicken, I understand the convenience of chicken, as they're soooooooooo much tastier, healthier and ethical (imo) than cheaply reared chicken.

[Auld Reekin']

14 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Important life skills imo!

 

I really love a decent ribeye or a nice juicy beef burger but I do find myself agreeing with you. I'd happily eat fresh fish and small game for the rest of my days.

 

Spotted some rabbits up here for the first time in ages. Might see if i can go get some for the pot. You've reminded me how amazing those things taste. 

 

Yup - very tasty! Hare is even better if you can get hold of it. (Difficult though - they run very fast!    )

[Bindy Badgy]

9 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

I couldn’t go vegetarian but would like to eat less meat. The problem I have is I eat a lot of protien, about circa 200g a day. 
 

I’m not sure I could get close to that level without eating meat. 
 

 

 

I would be surprised if you need anywhere near that much protein. You would need to be a large, elite level athlete for that much to be necessary. If the likes of Djokavic and Lewis Hamilton can compete on a vegan diet then most other athletes can as well. 

[Dawnrazor]

[Der Kaiser]

40 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

 

Nigella is pretty much close to perfection. 

 

She'll get up at 2 in the morning to make doughnuts then its back to bed to eat them...

 

[Auld Reekin']

1 hour ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

Nigella is pretty much close to perfection. 

 

She'll get up at 2 in the morning to make doughnuts then its back to bed to eat them...

 

 

But are her doughnuts like...  

[cheetah]

Funny how these threads always turn into meat eaters telling everyone how much meat they eat 🙂 

 

Been a vegan for years, not preachy don't give a shit what anyone else eats, but meat eaters are way more preachy in my experience and love to ram it down your throat how great animals taste, weird behaviour.

 

 

[frankblack]

21 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Funny how these threads always turn into meat eaters telling everyone how much meat they eat 🙂 

 

Been a vegan for years, not preachy don't give a shit what anyone else eats, but meat eaters are way more preachy in my experience and love to ram it down your throat how great animals taste, weird behaviour.

 

 

 

I've always found when at a meal out with people you don't normally eat with that its always the meat eaters questioning why are you vegetarian and trying to preach to you.

 

I never start anything as I know the way these conversations usually go with some.

[EH11_2NL]

On 17/01/2021 at 04:12, Lord BJ said:

I couldn’t go vegetarian but would like to eat less meat. The problem I have is I eat a lot of protien, about circa 200g a day. 
 

I’m not sure I could get close to that level without eating meat. 
 

 

¡Ay Caramba....That's a lot of protein. Bodybuilder?

[AlimOzturk]

I have no problem with veggies. I respect the discipline tbh. Vegans though is taking it to far IMO especially those militant ones who can’t help but tell everyone what life choices they should make. 

[Maple Leaf]

Half my family are vegans, the other half omnivores.  Neither group is "preachy" about their choices.  

 

It's clear to me that the vegans in my family are healthier than the others.  They don't have weight issues, don't have allergy issues, have healthier skin, and don't miss a day's work due to illness, year after year.

[queensferryjambo]

There is something really bizarre about how people feel about what other people eat and how defensive and uptight some people get.

 

The meat industry is scrambling like the cigarettes industry in the 1980s as there clearly is a real challenge to their products. Mainly due to the volume of crap quality meat products.

 

The myths thrown about concerning both sides of the argument are spouted over and over. 

 

Personally don’t care what people eat but certainly not going to slag off someone because they don’t eat meat.

 

There is a pretty good film with some incredible references to performance in sports with people who turned vegan. No matter your opinion on the subject it is a genuinely thought provoking film and has some fantastic comedy moments.

 

It is called The Game Changers and I cannot recommend it more highly. If you watch it you might find yourself down at Oriam feeding our players some lentils and carrots

[Tazio]

7 minutes ago, queensferryjambo said:

 

 

There is a pretty good film with some incredible references to performance in sports with people who turned vegan. No matter your opinion on the subject it is a genuinely thought provoking film and has some fantastic comedy moments.

 

It is called The Game Changers and I cannot recommend it more highly. If you watch it you might find yourself down at Oriam feeding our players some lentils and carrots

I wouldn’t put too much stock in that film. A lot of it has been discredited, including by diet experts from the plant based community. If you make a film with all the funding coming from companies that are actively selling plant based products it’s very unlikely to be neutral and balanced. 

[queensferryjambo]

24 minutes ago, Tazio said:

I wouldn’t put too much stock in that film. A lot of it has been discredited, including by diet experts from the plant based community. If you make a film with all the funding coming from companies that are actively selling plant based products it’s very unlikely to be neutral and balanced. 

 

I enjoyed it purely because it was thought provoking and a good fun film. 

 

I am am very aware it clearly had a bias.

 

It is worth watching purely to see Conor McGregor ripping the piss out of his opponent for being vegan then getting leathered by the boy 😀

[Byyy The Light]

On 16/01/2021 at 21:48, Cade said:

I'm reducing my intake of meat a bit for various economic and ecological reasons.
Of all the farmland on earth that is able to be used for producing crops, about 1/3 of it is instead used for animal pasture.
Another 1/3 is used to grow crops to feed those animals and only 1/3 is used to grow crops to feed humans.

Animals produce a ton of waste, especially gasses which are known to contribute to atmospheric problems.
The amount of fresh drinking water that animals need is vast, at a time when access to fresh drinking water for humans is in doubt.
Entire ecosystems are being destroyed to expand the footprint of animal farming and it's simply unsustainable.
If reducing our meat intake leads to less farmland being used to raise and feed animals and more of it being used to feed humans and save water along the way, then it's surely a good thing.

Me reducing my meat intake has nothing at all to do with moral reasons.
The meat we buy in the UK is guaranteed to come from a source with a minimum standard of care for the animals.

As long as the beasts are produced, reared, kept and killed with acceptable standards then I have no moral problem with eating meat.

Animals we farm are given medical care from birth through to death and never suffer things like; death from drought or famine, being eaten alive by predators, dying of exposure, wasting away from various diseases or dying of old age because they can't feed themselves any more. If they've got a bad disease, we put them down quickly and minimise suffering.
Over the last three hundred years of intensive selective breeding, we've produced a range of animals that could never survive in the wild without human aid anyways.

If you turned all the farm animals loose tomorrow, you'd just end up with tens of millions of dead animals in just a couple of months.

 

It's nice to have variety in my diet too. Love me some falafels or roasted spiced cauliflower or a veggie stir fry. 

I'm not one of those that tries to directly replace meat products with veggie fakes. They are never, ever as good as the meat version.

Let veg be veg. It's good enough to stand on it's own merits.

 

Veg tends to be cheaper than meat too, unless you're buying the very cheapest, crappiest, water injected, bland, horrible, intensively reared meat on the market.

And that's nearly always a false economy.
Very cheap meat is manky.

 

Since I'm not having meat every day, I'm happy to spend a wee bit more on better quality stuff when I do have it.

Not the hyper-expensive, aspirational organic guff that supermarkets are making a killing on flogging to the middle classes.
You can quite easily overpay for meat that's really not worth the extra expense.

Just slightly better quality meat than I was buying before.

Better standard of care for the beasties, more flavour for me, less meat demand on the system.

 

I'm also very happy to buy the bits and bobs of animals that most people overlook. 

Gone are the days of just a few select cuts.

Oxtail, shin of beef, tongue, liver, kidneys, hearts, sweetbreads, belly of lamb, pig trotters, marrowbones, you name it. I'll give it a go.
It's cheaper than the prime cuts, tastes better, shows respect to the beast that died to provide it, reduces industry waste and all it costs you is a bit of extra work (or just plain longer cooking times) than the traditional cuts that you'll see vac-packed in the chiller cabinets.

 

Found myself nodding along in agreement quite happily with this post until you got in to the bits and pieces. I’ve tried pretty much everything you typed but most of it I wouldn’t go for out of choice. I’d rather have a carrot then get wired in to a beasts kidney 😄

[Ron Burgundy]

On 17/01/2021 at 14:08, indianajones said:

Everyone that eats meat should be able to kill and prepare the animal. 

 

Its far too detached these days. 

Well I drive a car but couldn't build one.

I wear clothes but couldn't make them either.

I'm happy to let others be paid to do a service I require and have that cost passed onto me for many things I am unable or willing to do, food is just another of those things.

[indianajones]

2 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Well I drive a car but couldn't build one.

I wear clothes but couldn't make them either.

I'm happy to let others be paid to do a service I require and have that cost passed onto me for many things I am unable or willing to do, food is just another of those things.

 

I get what you mean but my original point was purely to do with the ethical consumption of animals being a vegan thread. 

 

You dont kill a car or clothes to get the benefits from them.