Pundits........

[mac]

8 hours ago, luckydug said:

Good call and stop this co commentator pish as well. 

They spend more time talking to each other than actually commentating on the game. 

They want to make it more about themselves than the actual match. 

Arthur Montford and his stramash

[Lone Striker]

12 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Was it David Francey on the radio for the BBC? Always only the second half though. Some kind of rule from Willie Allan at the SFA, to prevent us all staying at home and listening to a match on the radio instead of going. For younger listeners, I’m not joking there.

I remember listening to English midweek  games on the radio back in the early 70s. The commentators, the names of whom I can’t recall, gave such a vivid description of the scene, within the grounds, that you could almost imagine being there. Brilliant stuff.

In my opinion, in recent years, rather than just tell us what is actually happening, it’s become a contest of who can be the biggest smarty pants or the most controversial. Thereby the standards have plummeted.

Well remembered !!    That was indeed the situation around radio commentary up until some point in the 80s or maybe even the 90's    I don't think Sportsound started at 2pm in those days .... maybe only at 3.30pm  ?

     

The original presenter was Brian Marjoribanks who was a young player at  Hibs, then moved to Hearts...... then gave up football to become an actor !!   I think he also presented a sort of "Final Score" TV program  around  6pm on Saturdays on BBC - the one where Alastair Dewar was sent to whichever Edinburgh team was at home and to then deliver his report back in the studio.  I have it on good authority that he was a Hibby, which was actually fairly obvious from his match reports - waxing lyrical about them, but just describing the bare facts about our games..

 

Roy Small was another presenter of Sportsound and the Final Score TV thing. He wore a bow tie, and David Francey sounded as if he had copied Roy's speaking style.   I think that's around the time when they started having a pundit sitting beside the commentator at the matches - Ian Archer was one.     Later in the 70s or early 80s  Derek Rae presented Sportsound, with Jock Brown being the main match commentator.       

 

Head and shoulders above all of them though was  Bob Crampsey - highly intelligent, erudite and knowledgeable about almost everything !!    A former headmaster and Brain of Britain quiz champion as well as being a properly trained sports journalist. Cricket was one of his passions, as well as football.    As a Queen's "Perk" supporter, he was above all the OF nonsense and often spoke on air about the great teams and players from the past at  Hearts, Hibs, Dundee etc.      I really, really miss Sir Bob.

 

[Gizmo]

2 hours ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 Alan Preston and michael Stewart siding with us 😄.  Gies a break.

Preston is an embittered arsehole, no idea why. He should have been booted out after his hypocritical comments when he decried one of our nasty foreign players as a cheat and called the opposition player clever for the exact same situation. So many folk highlighted his bs at half time he made an unconvincing attempt at clarifying his obvious xenophobic bias.

Prick. 

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Wasn't  the chip ship business tycoon already on Sportsound at the same time as Paterson ?   Or are you suggesting there may have been a bit of argy bargy between the 2 of them ?      "Ah wiz a better defender than you"   "Naw ye werny"        

I heard there was only room for one of them and Willie was doing the bizzzo...!

[JDK2020]

10 hours ago, Stu_HMFC said:

 

 

I'd like to see big Kev get onto the highlights show at the weekend. He speaks his mind and sense on open goal I feel Kevin keeps open goal serious where Si is more laid back and always trying to make it a joke or take the mick out of Slane Kevin is the main man on that show and should go further than Simon Ferry .

 

I used to hate that Pat Nevin growing up watching him twiddle the pen and speak absolute nonsense where has he disappeared to .   

 

Pat Nevin : was dubbed by one hack as "the thinking man's footballer" and he loved to live up to it. Pity he usually resembled the most dishevelled of Big Issue vendors.

[Last Laff]

10 hours ago, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 Alan Preston and michael Stewart siding with us 😄.  Gies a break.

Let’s add big Jon then.

[Last Laff]

19 hours ago, Anderson5 said:

Wait. I thought Michael Stewart was on the good guy list after sticking up for us over the summer. What’s happened??

He tells the truth.

[JoeHarper]

19 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I agree.

 

Jings.Imagine me agreeing with a Hibs fan. 

 

Jobs for the boys these days, Joe. 

 

It's as bad as the snooker, where you have ridiculous questions fired at players past and present by an inept presenter. The money the BBC in particular wastes on this format is obscene.

[JoeHarper]

19 hours ago, luckydug said:

Good call and stop this co commentator pish as well. 

They spend more time talking to each other than actually commentating on the game. 

They want to make it more about themselves than the actual match. 

That's the infuriating thing for me, the mundane chit chat and their opinions on things no one gives a toss about when all you want them to do is commentate on the game. It must be infuriating for the blind.

[munro9]

While they are bad up here (Bonnar is surely the worst) at least we don’t have Robbie Savage.

[JoeHarper]

18 hours ago, 4marsbars said:

 

I think the opinionated pundit chatting to the commentator whilst avoiding commenting on what is happening right now really took off in the nineties with (especially ITV, perhaps Ron Atkinson's self-indulgent ramblings) ubiquitous live coverage of Champions League matches. I dare say it has got some connections with Sky and the Premiership but I never had Sky so that is just a guess.

 

I can't remember his name but BT's coverage of Champions League more recently has featured a really good (in my terms) commentator. 

I've been watching some old you tube games in the 70s and the only time the co commentator chipped in was when there was a lull in play, changed times indeed.

[johnthomas]

12 hours ago, JDK2020 said:

 

Correction : it seems it's very much jobs for the bhoys! 

Mark Wilson and Simon Donnelly just been sacked 

Should we expect them back on BBC soon ?

[Glencoejambo]

12 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

Well remembered !!    That was indeed the situation around radio commentary up until some point in the 80s or maybe even the 90's    I don't think Sportsound started at 2pm in those days .... maybe only at 3.30pm  ?

     

The original presenter was Brian Marjoribanks who was a young player at  Hibs, then moved to Hearts...... then gave up football to become an actor !!   I think he also presented a sort of "Final Score" TV program  around  6pm on Saturdays on BBC - the one where Alastair Dewar was sent to whichever Edinburgh team was at home and to then deliver his report back in the studio.  I have it on good authority that he was a Hibby, which was actually fairly obvious from his match reports - waxing lyrical about them, but just describing the bare facts about our games..

 

Roy Small was another presenter of Sportsound and the Final Score TV thing. He wore a bow tie, and David Francey sounded as if he had copied Roy's speaking style.   I think that's around the time when they started having a pundit sitting beside the commentator at the matches - Ian Archer was one.     Later in the 70s or early 80s  Derek Rae presented Sportsound, with Jock Brown being the main match commentator.       

 

Head and shoulders above all of them though was  Bob Crampsey - highly intelligent, erudite and knowledgeable about almost everything !!    A former headmaster and Brain of Britain quiz champion as well as being a properly trained sports journalist. Cricket was one of his passions, as well as football.    As a Queen's "Perk" supporter, he was above all the OF nonsense and often spoke on air about the great teams and players from the past at  Hearts, Hibs, Dundee etc.      I really, really miss Sir Bob.

 

Great post!!

I switch off as now as most of them can't even speak properly, let alone describe a game!!

[4marsbars]

1 hour ago, JoeHarper said:

I've been watching some old you tube games in the 70s and the only time the co commentator chipped in was when there was a lull in play, changed times indeed.

 

If you really want to give yourself a treat on youtube you will easily find the whole of England v Scotland in 1967. It's fuzzy and black and white, there are no action replays (perhaps just the goals), but the commentary is, to me, ideal. Focus on the player's name and say little else. When I watch that footage I feel much more like I am at the game than when I watch today's games, for all the improvements (colour, wide-screen, multiple camera angles). You get much more of a sense of what each player is contributing. I suppose it wasn't such a bad game either. 

[4marsbars]

9 hours ago, JDK2020 said:

 

Pat Nevin : was dubbed by one hack as "the thinking man's footballer" and he loved to live up to it. Pity he usually resembled the most dishevelled of Big Issue vendors.

 

Pat Nevin has been an occasional poster on Kickback and comes across as a good guy, almost as if all that thinking does you some good.

[coatbridgejambo]

11 hours ago, jonesy said:

I was in the car on Sunday afternoon and switched the radio on. Got a BBC commentator (the same one that did our Friday night match) and Pat Bonner. 

 

At one point, Bonner was rambling on about how unfair it was that MacGregor of Celtic had been booked that the commentator shouted about an Aberdeen shot on goal, completely out of the blue. No build up, no description, no sense of the game. Just a Celtic fan wittering on about how terrible it is that Celtic players occasionally get a yellow card.

 

It's a very expensive amateur hour when it comes to BBC football coverage these days.

Yeah we all more or less pay for packy bonners sellik season ticket.

Pundits get shipped about to different matches put he gets to just follow them.

 

Probably down to the fact he doesn't no any the other teams players.

[JoeHarper]

11 minutes ago, 4marsbars said:

 

If you really want to give yourself a treat on youtube you will easily find the whole of England v Scotland in 1967. It's fuzzy and black and white, there are no action replays (perhaps just the goals), but the commentary is, to me, ideal. Focus on the player's name and say little else. When I watch that footage I feel much more like I am at the game than when I watch today's games, for all the improvements (colour, wide-screen, multiple camera angles). You get much more of a sense of what each player is contributing. I suppose it wasn't such a bad game either. 

I've actually watched that game and didn't realise England played that game with 10 men for a big chunk of it. Big Jack Charlton was injured, that was in the days of no subs so they stuck him up front just for the extra body lol. Quite amusing to watch.

[Bluesy1874]

The only one I like at the moment is Gary Neville.

 

In Scotland especially open all mics they are dreadful and their "banter" is honking.

[Last Laff]

18 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

Really? I don't think I've ever heard Preston say anything positive about Hearts. Stewart should be ashamed of his immature, unprofessional behaviour towards our former manager Gordon, Robbie and Halliday are employees so you would expect nothing less. I' haven't seen Levein as I'm boycotting Sportscene but the way the majority of pundits have just stuck to the party line re our expulsion is disgusting IMO. Particularly on the BBC

Yes really. Both are Hearts fans.  When we are good Preston says it when we are shite, like the past two years he says so and calls for change.  You’re deluded if you think the BBC is against us. 

[Last Laff]

17 hours ago, JDK2020 said:

 

Correction : it seems it's very much jobs for the bhoys! 

 

Apart from all the HMFC related pundits all over the place? 

[Last Laff]

4 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I quite like Nevin even if he is a bit misguided with the choice of team he and his son follow, but none of us are perfect.

 

The standard of football discussion on 5 Live when compared with the BBC Scotland effort is like night and day.

 

Nevin for that reason got poached by Five Live. 

[Lone Striker]

4 hours ago, coatbridgejambo said:

Yeah we all more or less pay for packy bonners sellik season ticket.

Pundits get shipped about to different matches put he gets to just follow them.

 

Probably down to the fact he doesn't no any the other teams players.

Back in the day, we used to be completely non-PC when referring to a wee corner shop which was open all hours and holidays too, run by a gentleman from the Asian continent .  Then we hung our heads in shame at our unwittingly insulting language when referring to said gentleman, and vowed never to use  that reference again.   

 

Now Michael Stewart &  co  use the term  liberally on the radio when talking with Mr. Bonnar !!   😲

 

(Yes, I know it's a nickname for Patrick, but ..... I mean....really ....  it  sounds ridiculous nowadays)        

[coatbridgejambo]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Back in the day, we used to be completely non-PC when referring to a wee corner shop which was open all hours and holidays too, run by a gentleman from the Asian continent .  Then we hung our heads in shame at our unwittingly insulting language when referring to said gentleman, and vowed never to use  that reference again.   

 

Now Michael Stewart &  co  use the term  liberally on the radio when talking with Mr. Bonnar !!   😲

 

(Yes, I know it's a nickname for Patrick, but ..... I mean....really ....  it  sounds ridiculous nowadays)        

Well Patrick Bonner is a ridiculous pundit. If the mods have an issue with it then they can delete it. 

[smiler]

16 minutes ago, coatbridgejambo said:

Well Patrick Bonner is a ridiculous pundit. If the mods have an issue with it then they can delete it. 

I wouldn't worry about it, he's always been Packy to me.

[Last Laff]

47 minutes ago, smiler said:

I wouldn't worry about it, he's always been Packy to me.

Isn’t it Packie Bonner? 

[Jamhammer]

6 hours ago, Last Laff said:

Yes really. Both are Hearts fans.  When we are good Preston says it when we are shite, like the past two years he says so and calls for change.  You’re deluded if you think the BBC is against us. 

We're not Rangers or Celtic. The BBC don't give a **** about us. Pretty much every pundit on there hasn't said peep about our expulsion. Delude me up

[Spellczech]

We're all just unpaid, frustrated pundits on here - They just get money for it. Some are worth that money, most are not...

 

Have to admit nobody would pay me for my opinions on Hearts and I am totally ill-informed about all the other clubs!

Edited October 28, 2020 by Spellczech

[Maiden Gorgie]

Although not a pundit but a commentator, Martin Tyler is a nightmare. Spends the entire game spraffing crap. He seems to think he is the voice of football these days. Not saying he doesn't know the game but he is so self-indulgent and there is a real whiff of arrogance there. AND IT'S LIVE!!! **** Off

Edited October 28, 2020 by Maiden Gorgie

[JDK2020]

9 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

Apart from all the HMFC related pundits all over the place? 

 

Lol, you trying to suggest Hearts have a comparable media presence to celtc, considering the numbers of their ex-player pundits joining the ranks of the obviously biased hacks they already have pushing their agenda 24/7? 🤣

 

[Byyy The Light]

What annoys me the most is their laziness in adopting the party line. Or pushing their own agenda. Jim Watt is terrible for it at the boxing too. Ian Crocker is shocking for it.

 

Would much rather we got old school commentary and no punditry at all.

[ri Alban]

Modern Pundits might not be for everyone, but Ffs, spare me the old Montford etc... were brilliant pish. They'd put an insomniac to sleep. 

[JoeHarper]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Modern Pundits might not be for everyone, but Ffs, spare me the old Montford etc... were brilliant pish. They'd put an insomniac to sleep. 

Can't agree with this, all he did was commentate on the game in his own inimitable style.

Arthur's passion when commentating on a Scotland game was something to behold ( Czechoslovakia 73 and Wales 77 are two classics ).

You have to remember the era, but give me the old style commentating any day over today's style.

The legendary Coleman was a fav of mine with his 1-0 patter, but a great commentator who followed the passage of play.

[Coco]

4 minutes ago, JoeHarper said:

Can't agree with this, all he did was commentate on the game in his own inimitable style.

Arthur's passion when commentating on a Scotland game was something to behold ( Czechoslovakia 73 and Wales 77 are two classics ).

You have to remember the era, but give me the old style commentating any day over today's style.

The legendary Coleman was a fav of mine with his 1-0 patter, but a great commentator who followed the passage of play.

 

[Coco]

Worst pundit by far is Davie Provan.  Despite the Great Awokening this muppet is still commenting on Scotland games.

[Coco]

 

Imprssive Shumacher on McGarvey by Henry.  And good to see Provan getting a good one well before his involvement in getting Bud Johnston sent off.

[JoeHarper]

35 minutes ago, Coco said:

👍

Great days, the one and only 👍

 

37 minutes ago, Coco said:

 

The one and only 

[JoeHarper]

42 minutes ago, Coco said:

 

I was never that much of a fan of the blithering Archie Mac but his commentary on the Dalglish goal is a thing of beauty. I still get goosebumps listening to that.

[smiler]

15 hours ago, Last Laff said:

Isn’t it Packie Bonner? 

Packie, Packy, meh

[I P Knightley]

20 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

I quite like Nevin even if he is a bit misguided with the choice of team he and his son follow, but none of us are perfect.

 

The standard of football discussion on 5 Live when compared with the BBC Scotland effort is like night and day.

I know he picked the wrong side but at least he tackled the fact that he'd been raised to follow a bigoted club and decided that it wouldn't be right to raise his lad in that environment.

[JDK2020]

2 hours ago, JoeHarper said:

I was never that much of a fan of the blithering Archie Mac but his commentary on the Dalglish goal is a thing of beauty. I still get goosebumps listening to that.

 

That's Montford doing the commentary. "The blithering Archie Mac" was the one with the shredded wheat barnet.

[JoeHarper]

6 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

That's Montford doing the commentary. "The blithering Archie Mac" was the one with the shredded wheat barnet.

I know mate, I was talking about Archie's famous commentary on the Dalglish goal...Argentina here we come..

[jambonian]

I got sick and tired of listening to their slavering. As soon as a manager has been interviewed I fast forward to the next game, unless there's a very controversial moment. That also includes English football. Some I don't mind, Ian Wright though, arrogant pwick.

As for radio....Stuart Cosgrove used to be a decent listen but since his love-in with Tommy Wright I have no time for him. Both have taken great pleasure of ripping into Hearts. I don't know why this happened, St Johnstone would lose more often than win against Hearts over the years but their expectation grew as they won more games against us in recent times. You'd think they'd be proud of their team but they'd rather have a dig at Hearts than celebrate beating us. Glad he's out of St Johnstone now. Backwards and downwards from now on hopefully for those old firm loving cretins. Cowan is okay at times but seems to think by shouting over folk and screaming into the microphone that that's comedy. Can't stand Willie Miller. I'm sure he sticks his hand up for permission to speak from Richard Gordon "hello, it's Willie Miller here!" then proceeds to talk shite. Richard Gordon himself...smug pwick, arrogant, slaver, windbag, old firm arse-licker amongst other stuff. Don't mind Billy Dodds although he is as thick as he sounds sometimes, but bearable. The latest one that gets my goat is Neil McCann. Thinks everything he says is absolutely correct. Likes to tell anyone who listens what a team should line up like, or how a club should be doing this or that. This, from a man that couldn't line up his own Dundee team efficiently and probably the reason he'll not be in management anytime soon. Chic Young....ah, wee Chic! How that wee nyaff is still around in broadcasting circles is an astonishment to me. Actually, I do know....kiss-kiss, lick-lick old firm butt.

Back to the TV guys.....where to start!? The presenters are amateur at best. The production is just as bad. The only one worth listening to is Michael Stewart, although Steven Naismith sounds promising for the future. Stewart speaks it like it is and some people don't like it. Probably part of the reason they took him off air for a short time. If he could practice a few more sentences without saying "you know" every few seconds he'd be more bearable. Steven Thompson is fine as a pundit but perfectly amateurish enough for presenting Sportscene. Finally, the main presenter...forgot his name actually as he's so unforgettable.

[jambonian]

23 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

   

 

Head and shoulders above all of them though was  Bob Crampsey - highly intelligent, erudite and knowledgeable about almost everything !!    A former headmaster and Brain of Britain quiz champion as well as being a properly trained sports journalist. Cricket was one of his passions, as well as football.    As a Queen's "Perk" supporter, he was above all the OF nonsense and often spoke on air about the great teams and players from the past at  Hearts, Hibs, Dundee etc.      I really, really miss Sir Bob.

 

 

None of them can hold a candle to Bob Crampsey. This was a man who loved Scottish football, was highly intelligent and made every effort to know everything about every club in the country. He had done a few voice-over documentaries for various clubs and his knowledge and enthusiasm for our game shone through when you listened to him. He wasn't an old-firm bull-shitter as most are these days and didn't show preference for any one club. When Bob spoke, you listened. Even though I was young, he was one of a very few you'd enjoy listening to. 

[luckydug]

13 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

None of them can hold a candle to Bob Crampsey. This was a man who loved Scottish football, was highly intelligent and made every effort to know everything about every club in the country. He had done a few voice-over documentaries for various clubs and his knowledge and enthusiasm for our game shone through when you listened to him. He wasn't an old-firm bull-shitter as most are these days and didn't show preference for any one club. When Bob spoke, you listened. Even though I was young, he was one of a very few you'd enjoy listening to. 

Did Bob not do the narration on the Willie Bauld video which was released just prior to the 1996 SC final ? 

Bob could write an accurate book on just about any club in the country. 

Such was his knowledge of football. 

[jambonian]

Just now, luckydug said:

Did Bob not do the narration on the Willie Bauld video which was released just prior to the 1996 SC final ? 

Bob could write an accurate book on just about any club in the country. 

Such was his knowledge of football. 

 

That does sound familiar. I know that I remember hearing his voice on Hearts documentaries back in the day. But yes, he could definitely have written a book on any club, such was his knowledge.

[luckydug]

14 minutes ago, jambonian said:

 

That does sound familiar. I know that I remember hearing his voice on Hearts documentaries back in the day. But yes, he could definitely have written a book on any club, such was his knowledge.

I've just checked on you tube seems I am wrong. 

Auld age 😕

 

[jambonian]

Just now, luckydug said:

I've just checked on you tube seems I am wrong. 

Auld age 😕

 

 

I've definitely heard him doing some stuff on us. Maybe the "Back from the Brink" video or some sort of Hearts history stuff. Maybe "The History of Heart of Midlothian FC" I'd need to check out years and years worth of videos and dvd's to find it!

[jambonian]

Just now, luckydug said:

I've just checked on you tube seems I am wrong. 

Auld age 😕

 

 

I've just had a search through YouTube and he narrated "The Official History of Heart of Midlothian" If you look for that you'll hear Bob's dulcet tones.

 

[Last Laff]

12 hours ago, JDK2020 said:

 

Lol, you trying to suggest Hearts have a comparable media presence to celtc, considering the numbers of their ex-player pundits joining the ranks of the obviously biased hacks they already have pushing their agenda 24/7? 🤣

 

Within the BBC there are more Hearts related pundits or presenters than Celtic, and there’s certainly no agenda against the club. 

[SectionDJambo]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

 

None of them can hold a candle to Bob Crampsey. This was a man who loved Scottish football, was highly intelligent and made every effort to know everything about every club in the country. He had done a few voice-over documentaries for various clubs and his knowledge and enthusiasm for our game shone through when you listened to him. He wasn't an old-firm bull-shitter as most are these days and didn't show preference for any one club. When Bob spoke, you listened. Even though I was young, he was one of a very few you'd enjoy listening to. 

Absolutely.

Bob was a real gentleman, who got his points across without the sarcastic attitude all too prevalent from today's commentators. Extremely knowledgeable from, obviously, studying football of all professional levels, and not just interested in the Glasgow twosome, which sets him miles apart from the misinformed nitwits who masquerade as football commentators these days.

He genuinely wished the best for all football clubs in Scotland. No hidden agendas of tribalism or spite from him.