Planning permission 'boost'

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Hearts-home-win-on-cards.4259931.jp

 

Non-story in my view. We still need to know if Vlad will fund it.

[iainmac]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Hearts-home-win-on-cards.4259931.jp

 

Non-story in my view. We still need to know if Vlad will fund it.

 

Correct - non-story!

 

The ball is in the Council's court at the moment so there is no point in worrying about the new stand development. The time to worry IMO would be if / when planning permission is granted and then nothing happens.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Correct - non-story!

 

The ball is in the Council's court at the moment so there is no point in worrying about the new stand development. The time to worry IMO would be if / when planning permission is granted and then nothing happens.

 

It could have the reverse effect as well. The Council might decide another hotel 1 mile down the road is not required.

[iainmac]

It could have the reverse effect as well. The Council might decide another hotel 1 mile down the road is not required.

 

Doubt it - acute shortage of hotel accommodation in Edinburgh, especially during the summer.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Doubt it - acute shortage of hotel accommodation in Edinburgh, especially during the summer.

 

I would agree that there is a shortage but we are talking about our Council here and nothing would surprise me.

[iainmac]

I would agree that there is a shortage but we are talking about our Council here and nothing would surprise me.

 

Council seem to be OK with the current proposals and are just looking for one or two assurances from HMFC.

 

The bigger worry would be the scenario I mentioned above - we get planning permission but nowt happens. That would be a real worry to me and a few others - not saying it's going to happen mind.

[Stuart Lyon]

It would be interesting to see if the Police are as concerned about the car park at the proposed new Haymarket hotel given its proximity to a busy junction and railway!

[Jambof3tornado]

At least once its approved we can start asking questions if nothings moving forward.

 

Get it right Vlad.

[topcat]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Hearts-home-win-on-cards.4259931.jp

 

Non-story in my view. We still need to know if Vlad will fund it.

 

The EEN have run it with a four column picture of the New stand and a two column picture of the Haymarket Hotel which is the real story

[iainmac]

It would be interesting to see if the Police are as concerned about the car park at the proposed new Haymarket hotel given its proximity to a busy junction and railway!

 

Stuart, I think the EEN were more concerned than the police actually were - they were just doing their 'due diligence' on a planning application and the EEN jumped on it as a potential 'show-stopper'.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Council seem to be OK with the current proposals and are just looking for one or two assurances from HMFC.

 

The bigger worry would be the scenario I mentioned above - we get planning permission but nowt happens. That would be a real worry to me and a few others - not saying it's going to happen mind.

 

That would be a real concern were t to happen. Time will tell I suppose.

[Stuart Lyon]

Iain - I said on a pot a wee while back that I thought the Polis were just covering their backs! They don't seem to be too worried about places with even bigger car parks like the St James's Centre, Castle Terrace, Semple Street etc.

[jambojim52]

Strange they get permission and we are STILL waiting.

[Simmo]

Strange they get permission and we are STILL waiting.

 

Their application was in around a year ahead of ours and they have been thro' a few hoops on the way !!!

[The Real Maroonblood]

At least once its approved we can start asking questions if nothings moving forward.

 

Get it right Vlad.

 

The date for approval is April 1st.

[PTBCAL]

Correct - non-story!

 

The ball is in the Council's court at the moment so there is no point in worrying about the new stand development. The time to worry IMO would be if / when planning permission is granted and then nothing happens.

 

Hearts will get planning permission - Council are v.keen for this to happen but I fear/suspect Vlad is stalling things.

 

Decision was due Aug/Sept but I hear it may be Nov now due to VR moving the goalposts - scaling down perhaps?

[soulboy]

It's not outwith the bounds of possibility that the economic downturn could delay Hearts stadium project even if we do get permission?

[Francis Albert]

It's not outwith the bounds of possibility that the economic downturn could delay Hearts stadium project even if we do get permission?

 

No, and already some are slavering at the possibility of another stick to beat Vlad with. (Of course if it does go ahead the stick will be the lack of need for more capacity and the implications for the level of debt)

[lost in leith]

No, and already some are slavering at the possibility of another stick to beat Vlad with. (Of course if it does go ahead the stick will be the lack of need for more capacity and the implications for the level of debt)

 

Agreed - sorry for agreeing with you FA

 

There's nothing to debate until planning permission is granted, and we see what the final plan involves. If we get planning permission then I could live with Vlad saying it will take a while to get the financing sorted. Any reasonable person can see that we might have to wait a bit for economic conditions to settle down.

 

The really interesting question is how the development might be structured. In particular, where the football club sits. Will be sole owners of the ground only, sole/part owners of the whole complex, tenants or what?

[shaun.lawson]

Hearts will get planning permission - Council are v.keen for this to happen but I fear/suspect Vlad is stalling things.

Decision was due Aug/Sept but I hear it may be Nov now due to VR moving the goalposts - scaling down perhaps?

 

How do you mean?

[redm]

How do you mean?

I think he might be referring to the schedule of 'events' that was agreed between Hearts, the council and the distillery. In brief, Hearts had to do a certain number of things and make certain agreements with the distillery before the council would agree to move on other matters i.e. alternative premises for the nursery etc.

 

I wish I could remember where it was. I think it might have been one of those listed in the public access portal entry for the planning app but I can't be sure. Might go and dig it out again though, these things seem to be cropping up more often.

[Coco]

It's not outwith the bounds of possibility that the economic downturn could delay Hearts stadium project even if we do get permission?

 

I think it would be the craziest of all of VR's crazy manouvres at Hearts if they go ahead with the stadium redevelopment.

 

The office/hotel/residential white elephant developments suffering from a lack of demand in the future is one thing - but the financing costs have soared (if companies can get financing at all) for these sorts of speculative real estate developments. The club have never said exactly where the finance is supposed to come from - beyond Fedatovas 'looking for partners' or Charlie Mann's laughable 'Hearts will provide the finance'.

 

That said, building the football club stand must surely happen first - so if there is something built then the football side can benefit before the Romanovs lose tens of millions on the rest of the 'development'. But my worry remains that the planning permission will be given, the main stand will be knocked down - and then the lack of money will be revealed (though it will be concealed with talk of the downturn in Edinburgh hotels etc).

 

Then we go to Murrayfield.

[Martin_T]

I think it would be the craziest of all of VR's crazy manouvres at Hearts if they go ahead with the stadium redevelopment.

 

The office/hotel/residential white elephant developments suffering from a lack of demand in the future is one thing - but the financing costs have soared (if companies can get financing at all) for these sorts of speculative real estate developments. The club have never said exactly where the finance is supposed to come from - beyond Fedatovas 'looking for partners' or Charlie Mann's laughable 'Hearts will provide the finance'.

 

That said, building the football club stand must surely happen first - so if there is something built then the football side can benefit before the Romanovs lose tens of millions on the rest of the 'development'. But my worry remains that the planning permission will be given, the main stand will be knocked down - and then the lack of money will be revealed (though it will be concealed with talk of the downturn in Edinburgh hotels etc).

 

Then we go to Murrayfield.

 

I think this is a realistic fear Coco, which is why we as a fanbase should be extra vigilant on this issue.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned if planning permission is granted and work is delayed. As has already been pointed out, finance for these kind of projects has all but dried up. For example there is a huge potential development of a 6 star hotel in Glasgow city centre, right next to my work, of which the demolition work for the Holiday Inn that used to be on the site was completed 6 months ago, to date not a single brick has been laid.

 

Unless UBIG have huge pot of money to plough into this, I can't see the new stand development taking place in the next 5 years, if at all.

[Coco]

I think this is a realistic fear Coco, which is why we as a fanbase should be extra vigilant on this issue.

 

I wouldn't be too concerned if planning permission is granted and work is delayed. As has already been pointed out, finance for these kind of projects has all but dried up. For example there is a huge potential development of a 6 star hotel in Glasgow city centre, right next to my work, of which the demolition work for the Holiday Inn that used to be on the site was completed 6 months ago, to date not a single brick has been laid.

 

Unless UBIG have hugh pot of money to plough into this, I can't see the new stand development taking place in the next 5 years, if at all.

 

There is a huge amount of money kicking about in Eastern Europe, in oil and gas rich countries. It is possible that VR could tap into some of that. Would be loose change for the big players in those countries.

 

But UBIG don't seem to have tapped into that resource for any of their so-called developments anywhere else. So why would they be able to with the Hearts stand/hotel?

[frankbroxup]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Hearts-home-win-on-cards.4259931.jp

 

Non-story in my view. We still need to know if Vlad will fund it.

 

Of course Vlad will fund it and/or sell the development on.

But without the Planning Permission this club will remain static.

Enough people were up in arms when the last regime tried to take the club to Murrayfield.

Where are they now ??

If there is enough vocal support to retain the club at Gorgie and a desire for the club to develop and prosper then the proposal appear to be viable.

The excuses given by the objectors and the Police appear to vindictive at least.

The club is right to refer to the monstrosity at Haymarket.

Why does Edinburgh need high rise ??

[Rudolf's Mate]

Am I the only person who thinks this may be a complete wind up by the EEN?

 

How come they have come up with this story with a source from HMFC saying this betters our chances when nobody from within the club are speaking to anyone let alone the media?!

 

I think this is a case of the EEN making this up completely however their reasons could be simply more than doing it for a story.....

 

PARANOIA ALERT, PARANOIA ALERT!

 

I really don't think so. The club are not speaking so how did they get this story? They didn't! They made it up. Maybe they also thing that by saying this it may throw a spanner in the works!

 

Only time will tell.

[lost in leith]

Out of interest, does anyone have any info on how Vlad's other developments in Belarus etc are progressing?

[flecktimus]

Am I the only person who thinks this may be a complete wind up by the EEN?

 

How come they have come up with this story with a source from HMFC saying this betters our chances when nobody from within the club are speaking to anyone let alone the media?!

 

I think this is a case of the EEN making this up completely however their reasons could be simply more than doing it for a story.....

 

PARANOIA ALERT, PARANOIA ALERT!

 

I really don't think so. The club are not speaking so how did they get this story? They didn't! They made it up. Maybe they also thing that by saying this it may throw a spanner in the works!

 

Only time will tell.

 

I would think that someone has probably quoted, as it is supposed to be a good news story amongst all the sh te flying about at the moment.

 

For what its worth, it probably would help our planning application

[ToadKiller Dog]

Out of interest, does anyone have any info on how Vlad's other developments in Belarus etc are progressing?

 

The only one that seems to be completed is the Siemens arena in Vilnus but that opened in 2004 ,the baltic centre is to be approved by the Vilinus council this october according to there site.Dont think the Darius stadium has started yet either but could be wrong,Most of there projects seem to be at the same stage as tynecastle.

Cant find anything to say if they are progressing well or not.

 

You could argue that the completed redevelopment/modernization of there metal plants points to them having the ability to complete projects.

 

Like tynecastle in most of there projects they seem to be doing a professional job in terms of the planning and application it will be a case of wait and see in terms of finance.

[Only a Game]

Doubt it - acute shortage of hotel accommodation in Edinburgh, especially during the summer.

 

Thats an absolute myth.

 

There is a shortage for 3 weeks in August and thats it !! (although you wouldnt have to look too hard to find a room this coming August.)

 

They (whoever they are) are predicting a shortfall in 2015, which is why they are building hotels now. Personally I cant see where the growth is coming from but hey ho.

[PTBCAL]

Thats an absolute myth.

 

There is a shortage for 3 weeks in August and thats it !! (although you wouldnt have to look too hard to find a room this coming August.)

 

They (whoever they are) are predicting a shortfall in 2015, which is why they are building hotels now. Personally I cant see where the growth is coming from but hey ho.

 

Try telling the 3 Aussies I had in my taxi at 5am yesterday morning that there's plenty of hotel rooms in Edinburgh. 11 different hotels/b&b's - no joy. Except for me as the fare was ?41.

 

Edinburgh is now a year round tourist destination - with high spots (Fesitival/New Year) but generally the number of tourists in Edinburgh is huge.

 

Good quality hotels are in short suppy in Edinburgh - that is one complaint I receive time and time again when talking to passengers.

[PTBCAL]

How do you mean?

 

From what I can gather Hearts are moving the goalposts yet again on the re-devlopment - I would guess it would involve scaling down (imho).

 

A favourable decision was due Aug/Sept but I think it may be towards the end of the year now.

 

However the council have NO REAL concerns other than with Hearts themselves.

[Only a Game]

Try telling the 3 Aussies I had in my taxi at 5am yesterday morning that there's plenty of hotel rooms in Edinburgh. 11 different hotels/b&b's - no joy. Except for me as the fare was ?41.

 

Edinburgh is now a year round tourist destination - with high spots (Fesitival/New Year) but generally the number of tourists in Edinburgh is huge.

Good quality hotels are in short suppy in Edinburgh - that is one complaint I receive time and time again when talking to passengers.

 

You took them round 11 different hotels !!!!

 

Someone in your cab office couldnt have checked online who was selling rooms or called around ? Apart from which if guests went into one Edinburgh hotel and they were full, they would know who wasnt. Its a daily task to find out. (there were at least 20 city centre 3* and above hotels with rooms to sell last night) (Its my job to know)

 

Sorry but ?41 is either a scam or a lie, and youve a cheek dissing the quality of hotels in Edinburgh if thats what your up to on a regular basis.

[PTBCAL]

You took them round 11 different hotels !!!!

 

Someone in your cab office couldnt have checked online who was selling rooms or called around ? Apart from which if guests went into one Edinburgh hotel and they were full, they would know who wasnt. Its a daily task to find out. (there were at least 20 city centre 3* and above hotels with rooms to sell last night) (Its my job to know)

 

Sorry but ?41 is either a scam or a lie, and youve a cheek dissing the quality of hotels in Edinburgh if thats what your up to on a regular basis.

 

Eh? Your talking rubbish.

 

At 5am in the morning you are expecting the cab office I work for to tell me what hotels are available in Edinburgh.

 

Picked them up from the Airport - I took them to Gilmore Place for the B&Bs, then down to Leith B&Bs before taking them to the ones up near the Minto Hotel. On route I stopped at the Bruntsfield Hotel, Best Western, Novotel and Regent. For ?41 - it should have been nearer ?60. You sit in a cab for 40 mins and see how much it costs on the full meter.

 

No offence but you stick to answering calls to see if there is a room available and I'll stick to ferrying them there.

[Only a Game]

Eh? Your talking rubbish.

 

At 5am in the morning you are expecting the cab office I work for to tell me what hotels are available in Edinburgh.

 

Its a 30 second transaction on Last minute.com. Its called customer service.

[ToadKiller Dog]

At 5am in the morning you are expecting the cab office I work for to tell me what hotels are available in Edinburgh.

I work nights in a cab office not in edinburgh ,and there is no way i would be calling around the hotels to find which one is empty ,i could tell off the top of my head the nearest place likely to have a room but edinburgh being the size it is would be more difficult.

Its far more common to get asked where the nearest brothel is by visiting businessmen in the early hours.

[PTBCAL]

Its a 30 second transaction on Last minute.com. Its called customer service.

 

You obviously have never phoned a taxi office at 5am.

 

Customer Service - I went over and above that by doing what I did and not taking the full fare. most of the grumpy bas***ds that drive taxis would have bumped them at the 1st hotel and then chased their next fare.

 

It's drivers like me that make the tourists return.

 

And their families

 

And their friends.....

 

[Only a Game]

Y

It's drivers like me that make the tourists return.

 

And their families

 

And their friends.....

 

 

Despite the fact that on your highly lucrative circuitous route you drove past or near 20 hotels with rooms.

 

Drop them at any major hotel in Edinburgh and the night staff there WILL find a room for them, either at their hotel or another hotel in the city. They will phone until they get one. Thats what makes tourists return.

 

Not driving them round the city and especially not to B&B's at 5 in the morning when they clearly dont have night staff.

 

For ?60 you could have taken them to Glasgow city centre (very nearly) never mind Edinburgh !

[PTBCAL]

Despite the fact that on your highly lucrative circuitous route you drove past or near 20 hotels with rooms.

 

Drop them at any major hotel in Edinburgh and the night staff there WILL find a room for them, either at their hotel or another hotel in the city. They will phone until they get one. Thats what makes tourists return.

 

Not driving them round the city and especially not to B&B's at 5 in the morning when they clearly dont have night staff.

 

For ?60 you could have taken them to Glasgow city centre (very nearly) never mind Edinburgh !

 

They were Aussies mate. They were not looking to spend a small fortune.

 

Novotel wanted ?85 a skull.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Hearts will get planning permission - Council are v.keen for this to happen but I fear/suspect Vlad is stalling things.

 

Decision was due Aug/Sept but I hear it may be Nov now due to VR moving the goalposts - scaling down perhaps?

 

He is scaling down because if his own pathetic attempts at player purchases and team selection. He fecks up and the we pay the price. Pathetic and predictable from Romaknob.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Its a 30 second transaction on Last minute.com. Its called customer service.

 

Not all rooms are put online.

[jlo2]

Doubt it - acute shortage of hotel accommodation in Edinburgh, especially during the summer.

Only during the summer I'm afraid.

 

The credit crunch is hitting hotels in Edinburgh hard.

 

The fact that a huge development has been given the go ahead down the road from Gorgie will hardly help the economic case for the stand development.

[Mon]

Unesco are going ahead with an official enquiry as to Edinburgh's world heritage status with the Haymarket hotel development recently passed coming into question. This is of a major concern to the council and Scottish government.

 

This is going to make the planners less keen to give permission in my opinion:

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Unesco-to-investigate-if-Edinburgh.4261096.jp

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Unesco are going ahead with an official enquiry as to Edinburgh's world heritage status with the Haymarket hotel development recently passed coming into question. This is of a major concern to the council and Scottish government.

 

This is going to make the planners less keen to give permission in my opinion:

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland/Unesco-to-investigate-if-Edinburgh.4261096.jp

 

Plums! The heritage site is the Old Town and New Town, not Gorgie. If the council were that bothered, they wouldn't have passed Caltongate, which is the main issue.

[Mon]

Plums! The heritage site is the Old Town and New Town, not Gorgie. If the council were that bothered, they wouldn't have passed Caltongate, which is the main issue.

 

 

But it does make them more 'under scrutiny'. It has been flagged that the hotel development was given at Haymarket against opposition so they may make a case which makes them look as if they are listening when it comes to this case.

 

I would imagine this isn't a good time to have a planning application in.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

But it does make them more 'under scrutiny'. It has been flagged that the hotel development was given at Haymarket against opposition so they may make a case which makes them look as if they are listening when it comes to this case.

 

I would imagine this isn't a good time to have a planning application in.

 

The feedback is that the council are happy with the proposal, they just want HMFC to commit to it, particularly given the nursery situation more than anything.

[Mon]

The feedback is that the council are happy with the proposal, they just want HMFC to commit to it, particularly given the nursery situation more than anything.

 

 

 

If the feedback was so positive I would imagine it would be passed by now. Time will tell.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

If the feedback was so positive I would imagine it would be passed by now. Time will tell.

 

PTBCAL is well in the loop with this one and has been all along. The council is asking funding questions of Hearts more than anything (and now this bloody stupid tram thing as well - what a waste that is!)