Zimbabwe

[jambopompey]

how is it that the super powers of this world are sitting by and watch the genocide being carried out, is it now oil to bring the USA in (which brings us into it) for years we have seen every development of the rampage happen with nothing other than a 'thats not right' **** it get in sort it out, or is it a case of no oil **** your country.

 

 

 

some of this will be censored due to my language

[Romanov Stole My Pension]

One of my best mates if from Zimbabwe (scottish parents but lived there for 17 years) and he claims it's completely Britain's fault and could have avoided this whole problem if they hadn't decided to force out the white government and replace it with a black one.

According to him Zimbabwe (well Rhodesia) had a far better quality of life than even Britain (for whites and blacks) back then.

[I P Knightley]

You could add a few other resource-poor African countries to the list: Sudan, Rwanda, maybe more.

 

I think we all know the answer to your justifiably sweary question

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Bomb them, thats all.

[Cobblers]

One of my best mates if from Zimbabwe (scottish parents but lived there for 17 years) and he claims it's completely Britain's fault and could have avoided this whole problem if they hadn't decided to force out the white government and replace it with a black one.

According to him Zimbabwe (well Rhodesia) had a far better quality of life than even Britain (for whites and blacks) back then.

 

I understand your mates view but it's hardly Britains fault that they wanted the majority of the population to decide who ruled them. Unfortuantely as with most of Africa, tribal politics take over when free elections are first started. I fear that there is a real risk that South Africa could be heading the same way.

 

Deek's right though. The rest of the world has to make it clear that what is going on in Zimbabwe is unacceptable. Sadly though there isn't a lot we can really do about it. We have sent troops into other parts of the world and now criticise the government for doing it.

[Cade]

If we start sentancing Neds to three years in the Army instead of ASBOs or jail time, we could kill two birds with one stone.

 

Army gets a huge increase in numbers, Mugabe gets chibbed and loads of neds get killed.

[felix]

how is it that the super powers of this world are sitting by and watch the genocide being carried out,

 

I've been away so must have missed the genocide in Zimbabwe.

Thought the elections had been rigged and now world communities were imposing sanctions and refusing to co-operate with the ZPF ?

 

 

You could add a few other resource-poor African countries to the list: Sudan, Rwanda,

 

Sudan is anything but resource-poor - thus the reason the US has been involved in this country since the early 80's and now China is Sudans oil-partner, being Mia Farrows main gripe against holding the Olympics in China.

[Craig R]

"George Bush does not care about black people"

[cosanostra]

When i read about the reaction Mugabe got at the African Nations Conference last week it made me even angrier.He was greeted like some triuphant, returning Roman general. Half of the other African leaders are also corrupt and cheated in their own nations' elections. Some of the African leaders are like a host of Sopranos characters who have lied, cheated and killed their way to the top and are determined to do anything to stay there. I also felt angry seeing the smug look on Mugabe's face when he was being sworn in. What a disgusting, evil little creature he truly is.

[coppercrutch]

Africa is in the state it is in because of Africans. No point beating about the bush. You can blame us white folk and the 'Western World' all you want but it has to end somewhere.

 

Sierra Leonne could be one of the World's most prosperous countries. Instead it is a mess. All the fault of their people. They have had over 50 years to sort it out. They are simply not interested. I feel sorry for the decent Africans out there who have to deal with this. Not their fault they are born on a continent where there seems to be a massive desire for self destruction.

[The White Cockade]

It was Harold Wilson who first put the skids under Smith's Rhodesia but it was actually Thatcher and Lord Carrington who were instrumental in putting Mugabe in charge

Ironically it was "white" South Africa who put the final nail in the coffin by withdrawing their support which really did for them

Vorster the then SA leader thought that if SA fell in line with the UN and forced Smith to capitulate the the rest of the world would say ta and leave SA to carry on as they wanted

Didn't turn out that way......

The rest of the world should have taken action 25 years ago after Mugabe's massacre of opposition tribes but now its too late i'm afraid

Only the African Union could really change things and they have no interest in doing so as they mostly support Mugabe

[deesidejambo]

how is it that the super powers of this world are sitting by and watch the genocide being carried out, is it now oil to bring the USA in (which brings us into it) for years we have seen every development of the rampage happen with nothing other than a 'thats not right' **** it get in sort it out, or is it a case of no oil **** your country.

 

 

 

some of this will be censored due to my language

 

I agree. All this is Americas fault, not Robert Mugabe and his thug henchmen at all.

[davemclaren]

Africa is in the state it is in because of Africans. No point beating about the bush. You can blame us white folk and the 'Western World' all you want but it has to end somewhere.

 

Sierra Leonne could be one of the World's most prosperous countries. Instead it is a mess. All the fault of their people. They have had over 50 years to sort it out. They are simply not interested. I feel sorry for the decent Africans out there who have to deal with this. Not their fault they are born on a continent where there seems to be a massive desire for self destruction.

 

The imperial powers didn't help much by creating 'countries' with masive tribal tensions and then exploitning them for any raw materials and beng quite happy when compliant dictators were in place.

[jambopompey]

I agree. All this is Americas fault, not Robert Mugabe and his thug henchmen at all.

 

what i posted is that countries like the USA are sitting back and doing nothing whilst this is carried out, reminds me of the balkans when mass murder was allowed to be carried out and everyone stood back and watched

[Say What Again]

One of my best mates if from Zimbabwe (scottish parents but lived there for 17 years) and he claims it's completely Britain's fault and could have avoided this whole problem if they hadn't decided to force out the white government and replace it with a black one.

 

I'll freely admit to knowing very little about world politics - however, that sounds like pish (easy bandwagon to jump on) to me.

[Cade]

 

 

Spot the difference.

[Quagmire]

how is it that the super powers of this world are sitting by and watch the genocide being carried out, is it now oil to bring the USA in (which brings us into it) for years we have seen every development of the rampage happen with nothing other than a 'thats not right' **** it get in sort it out, or is it a case of no oil **** your country.

 

 

 

some of this will be censored due to my language

 

they have no oil, wtf do we care?!?!?

[felix]

 

 

Spot the difference.

 

One of them is wearing glasses - the other invaded Poland ?

[chester copperpot]

No oil in Zimbabwe = No invasion by the US army.

 

Shocking.

[coppercrutch]

The imperial powers didn't help much by creating 'countries' with masive tribal tensions and then exploitning them for any raw materials and beng quite happy when compliant dictators were in place.

 

Totally agree. However that is not the point. Every nation on this Earth has been ****ed over at one time or another. Some get on with it. Some don't. Look at the Eastern European countries for example. Royally shafted for decades. Hasn't taken them long to get back on their feet. Of course these countries are different form places like Sierra Leonne (Better Soviet education etc..) but the principal is the same.

 

Many African countries have resources other nations can only dream off. They have had over 50 years to take advantage of this and make their counties great. They have failed simply because their people are not up to the job.

 

The time for wallowing in "Us big bad white boys have made these poor little Africans lives so difficult" is well and truly over.

 

Many African people are lazy, corrupt and a disgrace. People are just too scared to state this truth. They need to get their act together and stop whinging about things that happened long ago.

[Coco]

Totally agree. However that is not the point. Every nation on this Earth has been ****ed over at one time or another. Some get on with it. Some don't. Look at the Eastern European countries for example. Royally shafted for decades. Hasn't taken them long to get back on their feet. Of course these countries are different form places like Sierra Leonne (Better Soviet education etc..) but the principal is the same.

 

Many African countries have resources other nations can only dream off. They have had over 50 years to take advantage of this and make their counties great. They have failed simply because their people are not up to the job.

 

The time for wallowing in "Us big bad white boys have made these poor little Africans lives so difficult" is well and truly over.

 

Many African people are lazy, corrupt and a disgrace. People are just too scared to state this truth. They need to get their act together and stop whinging about things that happened long ago.

 

Far too simplistic. There are a host of reasons, institutional and otherwise which mean that many African countries face a number of great issues.

 

As for the OP I am not sure that there is genocide in Zimbabwe at present.

[coppercrutch]

Far too simplistic. There are a host of reasons, institutional and otherwise which mean that many African countries face a number of great issues.

 

As for the OP I am not sure that there is genocide in Zimbabwe at present.

 

The simple ideas are always the best.

 

Of course there are a host of reasons why many African countries are in the situations they are today. However there is no denying the fact that many, many African nations could be fantastic countries today if they had the desire for that. They simply do not. Sierra Leonne is the perfect example. In the 50's people were describing it as the new 'Switzerland' of Africa. Due to its immense natural wealth. They have simply ****ed this against a wall. Their leaders are a disgrace.

[Coco]

The simple ideas are always the best.

 

Of course there are a host of reasons why many African countries are in the situations they are today. However there is no denying the fact that many, many African nations could be fantastic countries today if they had the desire for that. They simply do not. Sierra Leonne is the perfect example. In the 50's people were describing it as the new 'Switzerland' of Africa. Due to its immense natural wealth. They have simply ****ed this against a wall. Their leaders are a disgrace.

 

I think that Gordon Brown is a disgrace and is the worst Chancellor in modern British history. What can I do about that? One man one vote, so I get cancelled out by those who have voted for Labour's continued desecration of the UK economy.

 

What can the average person in African countries with disgraceful leaders do about that? As I said, there are many reasons (and different ones in different countries) why the countries in Africa continue to suffer.

[coppercrutch]

I think that Gordon Brown is a disgrace and is the worst Chancellor in modern British history. What can I do about that? One man one vote, so I get cancelled out by those who have voted for Labour's continued desecration of the UK economy.

 

What can the average person in African countries with disgraceful leaders do about that? As I said, there are many reasons (and different ones in different countries) why the countries in Africa continue to suffer.

 

I totally agree. I feel sorry for decent hard working African people. However I do feel people still like to blame 'foreigners' too much for Africa's troubles. Most of their current issues are home grown. They need a home grown solution and not pity from us whiteys for things we did years ago.

 

Maybe Mugage and Brown will both self combust this week. Would be nice.

[K1874M]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7492761.stm

 

Disgusting.... makes yer blood boil.

[I P Knightley]

Africa is in the state it is in because of Africans. No point beating about the bush. You can blame us white folk and the 'Western World' all you want but it has to end somewhere.

 

Sierra Leonne could be one of the World's most prosperous countries. Instead it is a mess. All the fault of their people. They have had over 50 years to sort it out. They are simply not interested. I feel sorry for the decent Africans out there who have to deal with this. Not their fault they are born on a continent where there seems to be a massive desire for self destruction.

 

I don't know if you've had much dealings with SL but I've had a lot to do with them over the last year and a bit and was there about a month ago.

 

The history of Sierra Leone is one of virtual pillage by the colonising countries, first Portugal, then the lovely Brits.

 

SL was very rich in natural resources, particularly diamonds, which the colonies stripped the country of, leaving the natives with nothing in the way of infrastructure when it became uneconomical to continue mining.

 

In the 1930s, Sierra Leone had a better rate of literacy than the UK. Very probably due to the ex-pats but an indication of their true potential.

 

When the Brits pulled out, without any contigencies for government, they left a vacuum behind which is bound to create the uneasiness that resulted in civil war.

 

I think it is criminal neglect that we did nothing to help them make the transition from colony to thriving independent state.

 

That said, it's a lovely (if hectic) place to visit and anyone looking for an unusual beachy destination for holiday should give it a thought!

[coppercrutch]

I don't know if you've had much dealings with SL but I've had a lot to do with them over the last year and a bit and was there about a month ago.

 

The history of Sierra Leone is one of virtual pillage by the colonising countries, first Portugal, then the lovely Brits.

 

SL was very rich in natural resources, particularly diamonds, which the colonies stripped the country of, leaving the natives with nothing in the way of infrastructure when it became uneconomical to continue mining.

 

In the 1930s, Sierra Leone had a better rate of literacy than the UK. Very probably due to the ex-pats but an indication of their true potential.

 

When the Brits pulled out, without any contigencies for government, they left a vacuum behind which is bound to create the uneasiness that resulted in civil war.

 

I think it is criminal neglect that we did nothing to help them make the transition from colony to thriving independent state.

 

That said, it's a lovely (if hectic) place to visit and anyone looking for an unusual beachy destination for holiday should give it a thought!

 

If you have been there then fair enough - But I have read a fair bit about he country and as far as I am aware it still has huge deposits of natural resources ? Namely the World's largets deposits of an ore used in Titanium ?

 

With its relatively small population it should be a wealthy wee country. Fair enough we did **** them over in the past and maybe we shouldhave helped a little more. However they gained independence almost 50 years ago so it is time they started sorting things out themselves.

[DikT.]

A lot of African countries have natural resources (minerals,oil etc). It is how the wealth is distributed (or not as the case may be) that determines how poor the people are. I still strongly believe (even though colonialism is against everything I believe in) that had the Brits not left here for example, Nigeria would be a much better country to live in for the locals.

 

For Zimbabwe specifically do I not recall reading that after Smith declared UDI we decided to ensure that the locals got a bigger say in who was ruling the country by insisting on free elections? Their decision to go into the war with DRC also cost them many billions of dollars. Mugabe is the one who decided to kick all the white farmers off the land and give it to people who had no agricultural background. This will be damned hard to change now as all the farmers have left!!! I think it is too easy to blame the States and oil for everything. I don't see them invading Nigeria to get the oil production up either.

[I P Knightley]

If you have been there then fair enough - But I have read a fair bit about he country and as far as I am aware it still has huge deposits of natural resources ? Namely the World's largets deposits of an ore used in Titanium ?

 

With its relatively small population it should be a wealthy wee country. Fair enough we did **** them over in the past and maybe we shouldhave helped a little more. However they gained independence almost 50 years ago so it is time they started sorting things out themselves.

 

There are resources, yes. But they're being extracted by the multi-nationals who were very quick to move back in as soon as the UN were there providing protection.

 

There's no doubt that there's corruption on a massive scale among the nationals which is doing no favours to the locals. I wonder how different it is in nature to the feudal system that Britain had a couple of hundred years ago? There's no widespread will to accept legislative change (or enforce it) as the guys with the shiny Hummers will ride roughshod over any Acts that are introduced. (Same as in Russia, btw).

 

All in all, I'd say that the whiteys set the place up for a massive fall but agree with you that the locals are not doing all they can to help the country out of its current state.

[coppercrutch]

There are resources, yes. But they're being extracted by the multi-nationals who were very quick to move back in as soon as the UN were there providing protection.

 

There's no doubt that there's corruption on a massive scale among the nationals which is doing no favours to the locals. I wonder how different it is in nature to the feudal system that Britain had a couple of hundred years ago? There's no widespread will to accept legislative change (or enforce it) as the guys with the shiny Hummers will ride roughshod over any Acts that are introduced. (Same as in Russia, btw).

 

All in all, I'd say that the whiteys set the place up for a massive fall but agree with you that the locals are not doing all they can to help the country out of its current state.

 

Sounds like a bit of a mess. Interesting comparison to Russia. 'Oligarchs' I think is the term for these sort of places. A small number of incredibly wealthy people pretty much running everything. Same goes for a few Central American countires I have been to. The wealth in these places is incredible - yet only in the hands of a few individuals.

 

I suppose this sort of problem is where the idea of Communism comes from ?