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JFK-1

Black murder is normal

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JFK-1
Posted (edited)

This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED Conferences. In this Talk, Pastor Michael T. Smith argues that the “normalcy” of black murder is ingrained in our American culture. Indeed, the idea that a black American would be involved in a homicide—either as perpetrator or victim—is so broadly accepted as to be largely unnoticed.

Smith exposes the racism that underlies the appalling lack of outrage at high death rates in the black community, and highlights the hypocrisy of a society that glamorizes violence, but ignores its victims. “It doesn’t take action to keep racism going,” Smith observes, “it takes inaction.”

 

 

Edited by JFK-1

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Francis Albert

Is the black community outraged by the disproportionate number of black Americans killed by black Americans? Or don't those  black lives matter?

 And is the glamorisation of violence in black culture not also an issue?

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Justin Z
57 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Is the black community outraged by the disproportionate number of black Americans killed by black Americans? Or don't those  black lives matter?

 And is the glamorisation of violence in black culture not also an issue?

 

"Hi, I'm a white dude who likes to play devil's advocate because other people's struggles are theoretical to me. It's fun to debate your rights! I'm here to exhaust you so I can stop progress and maintain the status quo, which serves me. I'm uninterested in learning; your frustration is my goal."

 

Falsehoods to quickly dispense with:

 

- "disproportionate number of Black Americans killed by Black Americans"

 

In fact proportionate

 

- "don't those black lives matter?"

 

Yup, community advocates talk about it all the ****ing time, you just don't listen

 

- "glamorisation of violence in black culture"

 

More racist nonsense

 

 

17 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

This talk was given at a local TEDx event, produced independently of the TED Conferences. In this Talk, Pastor Michael T. Smith argues that the “normalcy” of black murder is ingrained in our American culture. Indeed, the idea that a black American would be involved in a homicide—either as perpetrator or victim—is so broadly accepted as to be largely unnoticed.

Smith exposes the racism that underlies the appalling lack of outrage at high death rates in the black community, and highlights the hypocrisy of a society that glamorizes violence, but ignores its victims. “It doesn’t take action to keep racism going,” Smith observes, “it takes inaction.”

 

Thank you for sharing

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JFK-1
4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

 And is the glamorisation of violence in black culture not also an issue?

 

Isn't that largely what he's arguing? That such glamourisation is being encouraged/promoted, for commercial reasons by corporate entities who wouldn't take part in glamourising white murder?

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Weakened Offender
4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

"Hi, I'm a white dude who likes to play devil's advocate because other people's struggles are theoretical to me. It's fun to debate your rights! I'm here to exhaust you so I can stop progress and maintain the status quo, which serves me. I'm uninterested in learning; your frustration is my goal."

 

Falsehoods to quickly dispense with:

 

- "disproportionate number of Black Americans killed by Black Americans"

 

In fact proportionate

 

- "don't those black lives matter?"

 

Yup, community advocates talk about it all the ****ing time, you just don't listen

 

- "glamorisation of violence in black culture"

 

More racist nonsense

 

 

Slaughtered. 😁

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Francis Albert
11 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Isn't that largely what he's arguing? That such glamourisation is being encouraged/promoted, for commercial reasons by corporate entities who wouldn't take part in glamourising white murder?

A whole century of glamourisation of white murder in countless films and books and news stories passed you by somehow?

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Francis Albert
15 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

"Hi, I'm a white dude who likes to play devil's advocate because other people's struggles are theoretical to me. It's fun to debate your rights! I'm here to exhaust you so I can stop progress and maintain the status quo, which serves me. I'm uninterested in learning; your frustration is my goal."

 

Falsehoods to quickly dispense with:

 

- "disproportionate number of Black Americans killed by Black Americans"

 

In fact proportionate

 

- "don't those black lives matter?"

 

Yup, community advocates talk about it all the ****ing time, you just don't listen

 

- "glamorisation of violence in black culture"

 

More racist nonsense

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing

I shouldn't have posted on this thread. it was stupid of me to invite the familiar accusations of racism and white supremacism. I also find debate that consists of copying huge chunks of other people's opinions as fact not very enlightening. Especially when it tells me something I already know and have known for 50 odd years.

 

The article you describe as giving the lie to the claim that a disproportionate number of black Americans are killed by Black Americans does nothing of the sort. It argues that the root cause of that phenomenon is poverty and in turn that is caused by 400 years of systemic racism. That is certainly a huge factor but doesn't make black on black murder "in fact proportionate".

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Justin Z
3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I shouldn't have posted on this thread. it was stupid of me to invite the familiar accusations of racism and white supremacism.

 

I can only imagine the distress you've been caused by being called out on amplifying debunked anti-Black talking points. It must be right up there with being murdered in your sleep by police officers or living under the spectre of structural racism. #PrayForFrancis

 

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

The article you describe as giving the lie to the claim that a disproportionate number of black Americans are killed by Black Americans does nothing of the sort.

 

🤦🏻‍♂️ Flipped my links, apologies. Relevant text from the second link, which should've been the first:

 

By the way, do you know who overwhelmingly commits the crimes against white people? White people. At almost identical rates, because crimes are carried out due to proximity, but we don’t say white-on-white crime, do we?

But the real flaw in this argument is the simple fact that when a black person commits a crime against another black person, or a white person against another white person, and so forth, that person faces justice—something that happens less than 1 percent of the time when the perpetrator is a cop.

 

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I also find debate that consists of copying huge chunks of other people's opinions as fact not very enlightening. Especially when it tells me something I already know and have known for 50 odd years.

 

You're going to continue to get low-effort replies as long as you keep pushing debunked nonsense rooted in racism "as fact". Double shame on you that you have somehow known otherwise for 50 odd years, and do it anyway.

 

Or maybe that's an unintentional mask slip demonstrating just how uninterested in learning you are, as premised.

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Justin Z
15 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Slaughtered. 😁

 

Meh, I did get my links confused :wink:

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JFK-1
9 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

A whole century of glamourisation of white murder in countless films and books and news stories passed you by somehow?

 

Firstly I have my doubts you even listened to what he said. What alternate reality are you existing in? This is coming across as a tenuous attachment to actual current reality. A frankly feeble attempt at whataboutery.

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Del Monty
Posted (edited)

So if you grow up poor, you will shoot/stab people!?

And that is fine.?

Edited by Del Monty
Edit. No, I didn't watch the OP.

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JFK-1
1 hour ago, Del Monty said:

So if you grow up poor, you will shoot/stab people!?

And that is fine.?

 

That's what you think this video is about? Wow. Bizarre. Another I doubt even listened to what that guy had to say. 

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maroonlegions

 

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Spellczech
Posted (edited)

Not sure as a white person I'm particularly well placed to speak on behalf of black people, though I do have some black friends. Interestingly we don't tend to talk about racism. I don't know the reason for this, however, I suspect it would not please them to have me being all PC and criticising other white people. I think it would be...patronising.

 

What I do know it that no other race or creed seems to be quite so down-trodden. They just get on with things...

 

Racism is like Covid. Cannot be cured, best that we all just try to do our bit. Certainly we should not stand on a podium lecturing one-another.

Edited by Spellczech

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fabienleclerq

If the labels dropped rappers and the radio stations wouldn't play their music then they'd be accused of racism. The artists would use other platforms to promote and play their music. 

 

It could potentially have the complete opposite affect to what he thinks will happen and make it even more popular by forcing it underground to an extent. And I doubt some of the black owned labels would ever subscribe to it either. 

 

I read black people commit 52% of the murders in the states, considering its going to be mostly males of a certain age that means it could be as little as 6% of the population committing 50% of the murders. That's staggering and probably why people are numb to seeing or hearing about it. How you fix it **** knows! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Justin Z
4 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Not sure as a white person I'm particularly well placed to speak on behalf of black people, though I do have some black friends. Interestingly we don't tend to talk about racism. I don't know the reason for this, however, I suspect it would not please them to have me being all PC and criticising other white people. I think it would be...patronising.

 

It's entirely possible to call out racism when and where you see it, thereby being a good ally to your Black friends, while not being patronising.

 

Bet you two bits they would find your description of opposing racism as "PC" patronising . . . at absolute best.

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Spellczech
10 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

It's entirely possible to call out racism when and where you see it, thereby being a good ally to your Black friends, while not being patronising.

 

Bet you two bits they would find your description of opposing racism as "PC" patronising . . . at absolute best.

Only if it is really obvious and right there in front of me. Like is the below really offensive to anyone? How many native Americans have even heard of rugby as a sport? This strikes me as people taking offence on behalf of others which is a patronising thing to do...

 

image.png.045c8eb35ee68ca0cc5c90d5387861f8.png

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doctor jambo
4 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Only if it is really obvious and right there in front of me. Like is the below really offensive to anyone? How many native Americans have even heard of rugby as a sport? This strikes me as people taking offence on behalf of others which is a patronising thing to do...

 

image.png.045c8eb35ee68ca0cc5c90d5387861f8.png

I do wonder what the native americans think of the squabbling over where to begin teaching american history

1- with the civil war

2-with the arrival of the slave ships

 

As if there was nobody there before either.....

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XB52
On 26/07/2020 at 19:48, Justin Z said:

 

"Hi, I'm a white dude who likes to play devil's advocate because other people's struggles are theoretical to me. It's fun to debate your rights! I'm here to exhaust you so I can stop progress and maintain the status quo, which serves me. I'm uninterested in learning; your frustration is my goal."

 

Falsehoods to quickly dispense with:

 

- "disproportionate number of Black Americans killed by Black Americans"

 

In fact proportionate

 

- "don't those black lives matter?"

 

Yup, community advocates talk about it all the ****ing time, you just don't listen

 

- "glamorisation of violence in black culture"

 

More racist nonsense

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing

One of the best responses to FAs trolling I've seen, well done. It will make not one iota of difference to him though. Thank God for the ignore oprion

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Justin Z
5 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Only if it is really obvious and right there in front of me. Like is the below really offensive to anyone? How many native Americans have even heard of rugby as a sport? This strikes me as people taking offence on behalf of others which is a patronising thing to do...

 

image.png.045c8eb35ee68ca0cc5c90d5387861f8.png

 

Where the Washington football team, Cleveland baseball team, etc., are the ones that get the attention in the States, I can confirm from talking to Native Americans that yes, the Exeter Big Chiefs name, logo, mascot, etc., as caricatures of Native culture, would be offensive to them.

 

You're right that performative allyship is a problem and shouldn't be ignored. But it also shouldn't be used as a stick to beat and diminish progress with.

 

If you like, I can specifically ask a particular Native friend from law school if she would view the question "How many native Americans have even heard of rugby as a sport?" as far more patronising than an attempt to affect a change on Exeter ever would. I have my suspicions but would rather not speak for her.

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Justin Z
2 hours ago, XB52 said:

One of the best responses to FAs trolling I've seen, well done. It will make not one iota of difference to him though. Thank God for the ignore oprion

 

Was gonna send you a quick PM but they're turned off for ya. Anyway, cheers :smile:

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Dia Liom
4 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Where the Washington football team, Cleveland baseball team, etc., are the ones that get the attention in the States, I can confirm from talking to Native Americans that yes, the Exeter Big Chiefs name, logo, mascot, etc., as caricatures of Native culture, would be offensive to them.

 

You're right that performative allyship is a problem and shouldn't be ignored. But it also shouldn't be used as a stick to beat and diminish progress with.

 

If you like, I can specifically ask a particular Native friend from law school if she would view the question "How many native Americans have even heard of rugby as a sport?" as far more patronising than an attempt to affect a change on Exeter ever would. I have my suspicions but would rather not speak for her.

 

Do your native friends generally like being called americans?  It seems weird, surely their ancestors were there before white folk named it america - genuinely don't know though! 

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Justin Z
4 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

 

Do your native friends generally like being called americans?  It seems weird, surely their ancestors were there before white folk named it america - genuinely don't know though! 

 

Self-references vary, and admittedly it does make it awkward. Everything from claiming "Indian" and self-referencing as that, to "Native", to "Native Americans." At the very least, I'm not aware of anyone taking offence at "Native American" as a descriptor (yet some people do object to being called Indian) so that's the term I generally go with.

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Dia Liom
20 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Self-references vary, and admittedly it does make it awkward. Everything from claiming "Indian" and self-referencing as that, to "Native", to "Native Americans." At the very least, I'm not aware of anyone taking offence at "Native American" as a descriptor (yet some people do object to being called Indian) so that's the term I generally go with.

👍 thanks.  It's fascinating, and kind of funny, that an indigenous person would use 'Indian', but such is the complexity of culture.  Groups reclaiming pejorative terms and things like that interest me.

 

On the video, the seeming increase in discussion  about racism can only be good ultimately.  It feels to me at times tiring as well as energising.  But I'm enjoying learning about other people's views on things, and reflecting myself.  I think it's healthy to believe that humanity can improve, and to try!  Being cynical is easy.

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Justin Z
12 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

👍 thanks.  It's fascinating, and kind of funny, that an indigenous person would use 'Indian', but such is the complexity of culture.  Groups reclaiming pejorative terms and things like that interest me.

 

On the video, the seeming increase in discussion  about racism can only be good ultimately.  It feels to me at times tiring as well as energising.  But I'm enjoying learning about other people's views on things, and reflecting myself.  I think it's healthy to believe that humanity can improve, and to try!  Being cynical is easy.

 

You're welcome mate. On the bolded bit: Tell me about it. 😅 Trying to remember how exhausting it must be for nonwhite people definitely helps me focus and get energised again though. A small, poignant, common example Jon Stewart gave many years ago was just being Black in New York and trying to flag down a taxi.

 

You're right, being cynical is definitely easier, I find myself falling into it as a sort of self defence mechanism more often than not lately.

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Dia Liom
17 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

You're welcome mate. On the bolded bit: Tell me about it. 😅 Trying to remember how exhausting it must be for nonwhite people definitely helps me focus and get energised again though. A small, poignant, common example Jon Stewart gave many years ago was just being Black in New York and trying to flag down a taxi.

 

You're right, being cynical is definitely easier, I find myself falling into it as a sort of self defence mechanism more often than not lately.

Ye, the racism is clear all too often. 

 

Though my natural position is to be contrary and I find myself picking holes in well-minded ideas, generally preferring more simple, universal axioms, what stops me being cynical is witnessing rapid progress in some areas.  The kind of songs sung at Tynie have changed a lot over a few years.

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ArcticJambo

The Edmonton Eskimos have (or will shortly be) dropping the references to eaters of raw meat from their organisation's name.  They went through a couple of consultation phases (although I don't know to what extent their canvassing reached - I suspect it was in a few of the 'bigger' centres) and felt it was time to change despite many Inuit stating they were proud to call themselves Esquimaux, especially from the smaller communities.

 

In the social media world however, it's a small number of 'big hitters' who tend to dictate. 

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Spellczech
14 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Where the Washington football team, Cleveland baseball team, etc., are the ones that get the attention in the States, I can confirm from talking to Native Americans that yes, the Exeter Big Chiefs name, logo, mascot, etc., as caricatures of Native culture, would be offensive to them.

 

You're right that performative allyship is a problem and shouldn't be ignored. But it also shouldn't be used as a stick to beat and diminish progress with.

 

If you like, I can specifically ask a particular Native friend from law school if she would view the question "How many native Americans have even heard of rugby as a sport?" as far more patronising than an attempt to affect a change on Exeter ever would. I have my suspicions but would rather not speak for her.

Caricatures? So you likely disapprove of the cartoon Indians from old Droopy cartoons etc too. But are these really offensive to the culture or do they create an awareness of it? Deleting caricatures simply because some people want to be offended by virtually anything doesn't strengthen the culture, it weakens it...

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doctor jambo
1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Caricatures? So you likely disapprove of the cartoon Indians from old Droopy cartoons etc too. But are these really offensive to the culture or do they create an awareness of it? Deleting caricatures simply because some people want to be offended by virtually anything doesn't strengthen the culture, it weakens it...

Maybe the only things that remind the world that they exist you mean?

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ri Alban
13 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Self-references vary, and admittedly it does make it awkward. Everything from claiming "Indian" and self-referencing as that, to "Native", to "Native Americans." At the very least, I'm not aware of anyone taking offence at "Native American" as a descriptor (yet some people do object to being called Indian) so that's the term I generally go with.

Aboriginals. 

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Justin Z
9 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Caricatures? So you likely disapprove of the cartoon Indians from old Droopy cartoons etc too. But are these really offensive to the culture or do they create an awareness of it? Deleting caricatures simply because some people want to be offended by virtually anything doesn't strengthen the culture, it weakens it...

 

Yes, caricatures. There were dozens of Native American cultural groups over here before white people arrived. Over 500 distinct tribes are recognised by the US government alone. Caricatures like any of the ones we've discussed boil all of these distinct cultures and tradition into jokes. The assertion in your last sentence is startling in just how badly it misses the mark if the goal is to understand the point of view of the people who are the subject here.

 

And again, this isn't my original view, this is my best effort to express the view of the Native people who object to these. Their cultures and identities are not toys to be played with as we wish. I have never been able to figure out why it would be difficult to simply respect people. Respect their desire for dignity, and not to have their traditions and culture piecemeal co-opted, seeing as they have already survived genocides and continue to struggle in oppressive conditions today.

 

doctor jambo is correct—real Native Americans struggle to find a platform at all, in any form of media, while caricatures like these are all that remind much of the rest of the world that they even exist. It really puts paid to the idea that this is a case of being "offended by virtually anything".

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weehammy
On 31/07/2020 at 11:02, Spellczech said:

Only if it is really obvious and right there in front of me. Like is the below really offensive to anyone? How many native Americans have even heard of rugby as a sport? This strikes me as people taking offence on behalf of others which is a patronising thing to do...

 

image.png.045c8eb35ee68ca0cc5c90d5387861f8.png

The club engaged with the Exeter Native American community?????🤔

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weehammy
14 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Caricatures? So you likely disapprove of the cartoon Indians from old Droopy cartoons etc too. But are these really offensive to the culture or do they create an awareness of it? Deleting caricatures simply because some people want to be offended by virtually anything doesn't strengthen the culture, it weakens it...

White man speak with forked tongue!

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Seymour M Hersh
12 hours ago, weehammy said:

The club engaged with the Exeter Native American community?????🤔

 

All they had to do was drop the i and become the Exeter Chefs. They could have cooked up a storm on the rugby pitch only offending Jamie Oliver (which is a good thing imo). 

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Spellczech
23 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Yes, caricatures. There were dozens of Native American cultural groups over here before white people arrived. Over 500 distinct tribes are recognised by the US government alone. Caricatures like any of the ones we've discussed boil all of these distinct cultures and tradition into jokes. The assertion in your last sentence is startling in just how badly it misses the mark if the goal is to understand the point of view of the people who are the subject here.

 

And again, this isn't my original view, this is my best effort to express the view of the Native people who object to these. Their cultures and identities are not toys to be played with as we wish. I have never been able to figure out why it would be difficult to simply respect people. Respect their desire for dignity, and not to have their traditions and culture piecemeal co-opted, seeing as they have already survived genocides and continue to struggle in oppressive conditions today.

 

doctor jambo is correct—real Native Americans struggle to find a platform at all, in any form of media, while caricatures like these are all that remind much of the rest of the world that they even exist. It really puts paid to the idea that this is a case of being "offended by virtually anything".

Ok so where do we stop with this sort of stuff? Should caricatures of Vikings like "Vicky the Viking" be banned because it is a lie that they had horns on their helmets? A lot of Viking history is confused as sagas were oral histories - exactly the same as Native Americans' history. If we only allowed the absolutely known stuff about Vikings then Eric Bloodaxe might have to disappear from history, in the same way as Ragnar Lothbrok always needs an asterisk after his name, saying "*perhaps legendary or an amalgamation of several real people's deeds"...Was Sir Walter Scott guilty of caricaturing Scots and Scottish history by his romanticism?

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ri Alban
1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Ok so where do we stop with this sort of stuff? Should caricatures of Vikings like "Vicky the Viking" be banned because it is a lie that they had horns on their helmets? A lot of Viking history is confused as sagas were oral histories - exactly the same as Native Americans' history. If we only allowed the absolutely known stuff about Vikings then Eric Bloodaxe might have to disappear from history, in the same way as Ragnar Lothbrok always needs an asterisk after his name, saying "*perhaps legendary or an amalgamation of several real people's deeds"...Was Sir Walter Scott guilty of caricaturing Scots and Scottish history by his romanticism?

People were executed by extremists for caricatures of Muhammad. 

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Ron Burgundy

This thread proves the world is mental.

 

I'm off to my safe space.

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weehammy
On 30/07/2020 at 23:49, fabienleclerq said:

If the labels dropped rappers and the radio stations wouldn't play their music then they'd be accused of racism. The artists would use other platforms to promote and play their music. 

 

It could potentially have the complete opposite affect to what he thinks will happen and make it even more popular by forcing it underground to an extent. And I doubt some of the black owned labels would ever subscribe to it either. 

 

I read black people commit 52% of the murders in the states, considering its going to be mostly males of a certain age that means it could be as little as 6% of the population committing 50% of the murders. That's staggering and probably why people are numb to seeing or hearing about it. How you fix it **** knows! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s questionable if what is produced by rappers can legitimately be called ‘music’ or that they can be described as ‘artists’.

But that’s probably a ‘racist’ view!
 

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fabienleclerq
26 minutes ago, weehammy said:

It’s questionable if what is produced by rappers can legitimately be called ‘music’ or that they can be described as ‘artists’.

But that’s probably a ‘racist’ view!
 

Its not racist to think it's shite, it's definitely music and they are artists though! 

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Justin Z
On 02/08/2020 at 08:30, Spellczech said:

Ok so where do we stop with this sort of stuff? Should caricatures of Vikings like "Vicky the Viking" be banned because it is a lie that they had horns on their helmets? A lot of Viking history is confused as sagas were oral histories - exactly the same as Native Americans' history. If we only allowed the absolutely known stuff about Vikings then Eric Bloodaxe might have to disappear from history, in the same way as Ragnar Lothbrok always needs an asterisk after his name, saying "*perhaps legendary or an amalgamation of several real people's deeds"...Was Sir Walter Scott guilty of caricaturing Scots and Scottish history by his romanticism?

 

What I said previously, simply respect people and their dignity, applies to all of these questions. Making up hypotheticals doesn't change the core issue: that respecting people is a very simple principle to follow.

 

For the bold bit, we will need extensive citation of your claim that anything about these examples are exactly identical. Within that citation, can you also document for us where and how Vikings have had genocide committed against their culture and are to the present day oppressed? Because it would appear by contrast that people in Norse countries can freely choose to revisit their Viking roots and do so from relatively comfortable positions in modern society. Thanks in advance.

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Spellczech
2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

What I said previously, simply respect people and their dignity, applies to all of these questions. Making up hypotheticals doesn't change the core issue: that respecting people is a very simple principle to follow.

 

For the bold bit, we will need extensive citation of your claim that anything about these examples are exactly identical. Within that citation, can you also document for us where and how Vikings have had genocide committed against their culture and are to the present day oppressed? Because it would appear by contrast that people in Norse countries can freely choose to revisit their Viking roots and do so from relatively comfortable positions in modern society. Thanks in advance.

Eh? This is a football forum not a acedemic research paper. I'm not going to go and find you support. Go find it for yourself if you won't take my word for it that Native American history was passed down orally - it tended to be the go-to method for cultures which didn't write a lot...

 

I was not talking about oppression or genocide, I was talking about cultural caricatures being deleted...I think it is quite possible to play cowboys and indians; watch Droopy cartoons, watch Exeter Chiefs rugby team without offending or disrespecting anyone, and without thinking badly of Native Americans.

 

 

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Dawnrazor
9 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Eh? This is a football forum not a acedemic research paper. I'm not going to go and find you support. Go find it for yourself if you won't take my word for it that Native American history was passed down orally - it tended to be the go-to method for cultures which didn't write a lot...

 

I was not talking about oppression or genocide, I was talking about cultural caricatures being deleted...I think it is quite possible to play cowboys and indians; watch Droopy cartoons, watch Exeter Chiefs rugby team without offending or disrespecting anyone, and without thinking badly of Native Americans.

 

 

👍

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ri Alban

Personally... If we stopped putting labels on ourselves, it would be a good start. 

Not white, Not Black, Not Native. People! 

Edited by ri Alban

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Justin Z
38 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I was not talking about oppression or genocide, I was talking about cultural caricatures being deleted...I think it is quite possible to play cowboys and indians; watch Droopy cartoons, watch Exeter Chiefs rugby team without offending or disrespecting anyone, and without thinking badly of Native Americans.

 

And it's clear you think very highly of this opinion you hold, so accordingly, can you tell me which of these caricatures were okay and ought never have to been discontinued? Can you explain how the Black community in America has had its culture diminished by our being rid of these caricatures?

 

Ads featuring Black caricatures a painful part of American history

 

If you Google you can find far more, and far worse, than what's here.

 

Would you be willing to consider the possibility that because you are not a Native American, your opinion, while you're entitled to have it, is worth the square root of **** all in the grand scheme of things, and that the opinions that do matter are the ones held by the subjects of these caricatures you think are totally okay to promulgate? Would you be willing to consider the idea that just maybe, your feelings on the matter pale next to their feelings on the matter?

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Spellczech
18 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

And it's clear you think very highly of this opinion you hold, so accordingly, can you tell me which of these caricatures were okay and ought never have to been discontinued? Can you explain how the Black community in America has had its culture diminished by our being rid of these caricatures?

 

Ads featuring Black caricatures a painful part of American history

 

If you Google you can find far more, and far worse, than what's here.

 

Would you be willing to consider the possibility that because you are not a Native American, your opinion, while you're entitled to have it, is worth the square root of **** all in the grand scheme of things, and that the opinions that do matter are the ones held by the subjects of these caricatures you think are totally okay to promulgate? Would you be willing to consider the idea that just maybe, your feelings on the matter pale next to their feelings on the matter?

Yes of course - that was EXACTLY MY ORIGINAL POINT in this thread. White people standing on pedestals telling other white people that they are wrong is exactly what I was saying is wrong. Well done, you got there!

Edited by Spellczech

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Justin Z
3 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Yes of course - that was EXACTLY MY ORIGINAL POINT in this thread. White people standing on pedestals telling other white people that they are wrong is exactly what I was saying is wrong. Well done, you got there!

 

So white allies shouldn't stand with communities of colour in solidarity, or amplify their voices, and their opinions, which you concede are the ones which do matter? I'm no yogini myself, but that's quite a stretch.

 

I don't see any pedestals here. Sounds like a personal problem.

Edited by Justin Z

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Spellczech
1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

So white allies shouldn't stand with communities of colour in solidarity, or amplify their voices, and their opinions, which are the ones which do matter? I'm no yogini myself, but that's quite a stretch.

 

I don't see any pedestals here. Sounds like a personal problem.

Have a look at the video in the OP - you don't even need to watch it - before you took over the thread...

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Justin Z
1 minute ago, Spellczech said:

Have a look at the video in the OP - you don't even need to watch it - before you took over the thread...

 

I looked at it over a week ago. It's about "invisible" racism perpetuated through various American cultural phenomena. Why are you telling me to have a look at it now?

 

"Took over the thread?" Hmm, fascinating. By the way, how did we get onto the subject of Native American culture being appropriated and caricatured? It's slipping my mind at the moment.

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Spellczech
14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I looked at it over a week ago. It's about "invisible" racism perpetuated through various American cultural phenomena. Why are you telling me to have a look at it now?

 

"Took over the thread?" Hmm, fascinating. By the way, how did we get onto the subject of Native American culture being appropriated and caricatured? It's slipping my mind at the moment.

White guys on pedestals lecturing other white guys. Fair enough though, you are not on a pedestal, just a white guy telling other white guys that their opinions count for nothing...

Edited by Spellczech

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jake

Ah the white privilege thingy.

 

In a nutshell.

Your opinion isnt as valid if you are white.

 

 

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