on&up2017 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: That letter he wrote to random agents asking if they had any good players was an utter embarrassment Can you, if you don’t have a link to the letter, please paste the text in here so folk like me who missed it can see how pathetic John Murray has been this time. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said: We now have superclubs swallowing up young talent from ages 9 to 23 years old across Europe,look at any EPL academy and its like a league of Nations.Other clubs have worked this market superbly like Motherwell,picking up guys released. From 1995 and the Bosman ruling to today we could not sign a Salvatori or Flogel nowadays,both finacially or from a sporting perspective Then we have different recruitment models now,Brentford are having their most successful period adapting the statistical approach. We are undecided about what we want to be,firstly we had Levein wanting a conveyor belt of academy players,the quality is just not there. Then we adapted players with international caps method,this brought us Perry Kitchen,Oshaniwa,Augustyn and Struna etc.Again failed. Levein and Murray's final act was the theory of signing players who have had historical injury problems and would be out of reach,this has been disastrous. We need to modernize,sign younger players in the 23 to 27 age range and start getting some value for money. So you're really saying it's the club that's at fault. All you've done is selected 2 teams (Motherwell and Brentford) who are currently doing comparatively well (in recruitment) out of 100+ UK clubs and countless foreign clubs. You also missed out the Romanov years which was probably our most successful in recent years but had more of a scattergun approach than perhaps any in our history. I neither wish to defend JM or criticise him but it's crazy to believe that over a period of 25 years he alone is to blame for any shortcomings in recruitment. He is a soft target and you have just jumped on what you perceive to be a popular bandwagon. We haven't played football for 3 months and suddenly you come up with this negative tripe now. What are you trying to achieve? Edited June 28, 2020 by JamboAl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 33 minutes ago, on&up2017 said: Can you, if you don’t have a link to the letter, please paste the text in here so folk like me who missed it can see how pathetic John Murray has been this time. Thanks https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5418753/hearts-approach-agents-players-money-spend/amp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5418753/hearts-approach-agents-players-money-spend/amp/ 🤣 Great scouting work there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, Space Pirate said: 🤣 Great scouting work there. Unreal isn’t it? A club of dinosaurs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS86 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 5 hours ago, SomethingAboutObua said: Get him out asap. Been at the club since about 1995? If you look at our top scorers for the last 20 years-he found Sow (not a top scorer but worth adding), Juanma and i assume Zeefuik and De Vries were his too. Lafferty knew MacPhee, Naismith knew Levein, Walker and Paterson youth players, John Sutton was well known in the league, Velicka was Kaunas, and then we have 3 midfielders Aguiar (Kaunas), Skacel (not Murray) and Suso (possibly Murray?) Our head of recruitment/one of the biggest recruiters at the club, for 20 (TWENTY) years, has brought forward 4 (FOUR) strikers capable of being our top scorers, one of which was half a season in the Championship we romped. Obviously not every transfer works out, and Skacel's scoring might take a few years out of the list, but to bring in only 4 top scorers, none reaching the 20 goals mark? Unbelievable he's stayed on if we're meant to be the 3rd biggest team. I believe Sow was recommended by Neil Alexander and Zee was a MDV recommendation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Unreal isn’t it? A club of dinosaurs Embarrassing stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGorgie Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, Space Pirate said: Embarrassing stuff. What is truly embarrassing is the utter lack of talented forwards brought through our academy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aberhill jambo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 7 hours ago, chubby1973 said: Would love to see Jimmy dunne back at the club. Wasn't afraid to rip into anyone not pulling their weight. Really hated losing. Correct Was very good loan signing for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 23 minutes ago, OldGorgie said: What is truly embarrassing is the utter lack of talented forwards brought through our academy. Nothing new is it, deep rooted negative shite bag mentality throughout the club. Jobs for the boys and the same old people backing it up. That's something Stendel might have sorted given time, but we've went back in time and re-signed the Son that Ann always wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: So you're really saying it's the club that's at fault. All you've done is selected 2 teams (Motherwell and Brentford) who are currently doing comparatively well (in recruitment) out of 100+ UK clubs and countless foreign clubs. You also missed out the Romanov years which was probably our most successful in recent years but had more of a scattergun approach than perhaps any in our history. I neither wish to defend JM or criticise him but it's crazy to believe that over a period of 25 years he alone is to blame for any shortcomings in recruitment. He is a soft target and you have just jumped on what you perceive to be a popular bandwagon. We haven't played football for 3 months and suddenly you come up with this negative tripe now. What are you trying to achieve? What on earth are you going on about.I have responded to your daft questions out of courtesy. Consider this the last one. We are not talking about the last 25 years inclusevely, we are talking about the last 5 that have ended up with us being the worst team in the Scottish Premier League. Take your beef elsewhere,the thread is about moving on from John Murray and the future of HMFC.To improve this we have to.look at where we have went wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said: What on earth are you going on about.I have responded to your daft questions out of courtesy. Consider this the last one. We are not talking about the last 25 years inclusevely, we are talking about the last 5 that have ended up with us being the worst team in the Scottish Premier League. Take your beef elsewhere,the thread is about moving on from John Murray and the future of HMFC.To improve this we have to.look at where we have went wrong. And you take your negative crap elsewhere. This subject has been covered before. Why don't you just get behind the team instead of always looking for the downside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC 86 Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, JamboAl said: And you take your negative crap elsewhere. This subject has been covered before. Why don't you just get behind the team instead of always looking for the downside. We were bottom of the league when it stopped, whatever the issues we have with our being expelled, you have to accept we have underachieved as a club. That’s not being negative, it’s being honest. If you don’t or can’t accept this you are delusional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leveins Battalion Posted June 28, 2020 Author Share Posted June 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said: We were bottom of the league when it stopped, whatever the issues we have with our being expelled, you have to accept we have underachieved as a club. That’s not being negative, it’s being honest. If you don’t or can’t accept this you are delusional Don't waste your breath on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy Jambo Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, Leveins Battalion said: Don't waste your breath on him. Agreed. The thoughts of some so called Hearts fans on here is doing us more harm than good, they might as well be Hibs supporters. It's just a pure jobs for the boys mentality and as long as they have a nice day out, all is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: And you take your negative crap elsewhere. This subject has been covered before. Why don't you just get behind the team instead of always looking for the downside. This is the sort of ignorant nonsense that's got us where we are. Time to take stock and look why we're here and make the necessary changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Recruitment is where we stand or fall, it has been clear since we left the Championship thats where our biggest problem has been. Get that right and we will be in a great position going on. We have one of the biggest budget outwith the old firm and teams with much smaller budgets seem to be better at signing players than us. Under Levein we looked to sign quite a few players who had been good in the past or potential of being good but have been injured quite often. Now that doesn't necessarily mean its a terrible idea, you can find value in transfers in that, however too often we signed players who carried on having injuries or never reaching the level they promise (though there is an extra element of poor coaching under Levein that didn't develop players.) I dont have the right answer as I am not in football, I would like to think we could look at styles of recruitment that can give us an edge in a crowded market. I hope whoever we hire as Sporting director can arrange a clear plan for recruitment and a talented team who can get the players we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: Recruitment is where we stand or fall, it has been clear since we left the Championship thats where our biggest problem has been. Get that right and we will be in a great position going on. We have one of the biggest budget outwith the old firm and teams with much smaller budgets seem to be better at signing players than us. Under Levein we looked to sign quite a few players who had been good in the past or potential of being good but have been injured quite often. Now that doesn't necessarily mean its a terrible idea, you can find value in transfers in that, however too often we signed players who carried on having injuries or never reaching the level they promise (though there is an extra element of poor coaching under Levein that didn't develop players.) I dont have the right answer as I am not in football, I would like to think we could look at styles of recruitment that can give us an edge in a crowded market. I hope whoever we hire as Sporting director can arrange a clear plan for recruitment and a talented team who can get the players we need. Now we've got the guy who thought signing Conor Sammon and Juwon Oshaniwa on 3yr deals was a good idea, coming back to the club. Finding it hard to be positive about this appointment. Especially if teflon John Murray is still at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 I think one of the Sporting Directors key functions and abilities will be to update and re-organise our scouting system. Hopefully as well as a SD, we employ a good chief scout of scouts. IMO having the advice of the likes of Donald Park and JJ alongside our SD and Robbie would be a good transfer committee to look at players recommended to us so have the expert voices there to ensure we sign the right folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisnameis Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Obviously our recruitment has been dire this last 4 years but Heard through a friend that when Hearts went in to admin Murray’s pension went belly up so Hearts kept him on but Levein did his own scouting and ignored Murray’s recommendations. I am not saying that he has a spotless record re recruitment but from what I have heard He is not culpable for the shit show that brought us to our position now. Also did Robbie not recruit Lawrence Shankland. Agree that Parky JJ would be great assets in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnB Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 1 hour ago, hisnameis said: Obviously our recruitment has been dire this last 4 years but Heard through a friend that when Hearts went in to admin Murray’s pension went belly up so Hearts kept him on but Levein did his own scouting and ignored Murray’s recommendations. I am not saying that he has a spotless record re recruitment but from what I have heard He is not culpable for the shit show that brought us to our position now. Also did Robbie not recruit Lawrence Shankland. Agree that Parky JJ would be great assets in this regard. Are your friend's initials JM by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hisnameis Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 1 hour ago, JohnB said: Are your friend's initials JM by any chance? Incorrect 🤨😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Was it Murray who brought in Kyle, Elliott and Beattie? Just in the interests of balance. I’m not sure how involved he was. We should also remember JJ didn’t want Skacel and nearly foisted Tony Capaldi on us. Nobody is infallible, including JJ. If Murray is leaving, I hope we are going to raid a smaller club with a history of finding good players we haven’t heard much about. I’d be nicking the boy at Motherwell or any other small club who’ve done well at finding hidden gems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Cruyff said: I think one of the Sporting Directors key functions and abilities will be to update and re-organise our scouting system. Hopefully as well as a SD, we employ a good chief scout of scouts. IMO having the advice of the likes of Donald Park and JJ alongside our SD and Robbie would be a good transfer committee to look at players recommended to us so have the expert voices there to ensure we sign the right folk. I agree with what you say apart from the highlighted part. We have a manager and (soon) a SD who, individually or jointly, should oversee scouting. Having a chief scout as well is may be overkill. Edited June 29, 2020 by JamboAl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaps Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Was it Murray who brought in Kyle, Elliott and Beattie? Just in the interests of balance. I’m not sure how involved he was. We should also remember JJ didn’t want Skacel and nearly foisted Tony Capaldi on us. Nobody is infallible, including JJ. If Murray is leaving, I hope we are going to raid a smaller club with a history of finding good players we haven’t heard much about. I’d be nicking the boy at Motherwell or any other small club who’ve done well at finding hidden gems. Kevin Kyle recommended Elliot to JJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 13 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5418753/hearts-approach-agents-players-money-spend/amp/ Holy shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 3 hours ago, JamboAl said: I agree with what you say apart from the highlighted part. We have a manager and (soon) a SD who, individually or jointly, should oversee scouting. Having a chief scout as well is may be overkill. You still need to have a chief scout who actually goes and watches them 3 times or so over 90 minutes. That's not the manager or sporting directors job, I doubt they'd have the time anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Bells Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Murray and his Scouts seem to be reasonably successful with spotting Goal-Keepers and Defenders (the easy bit) but are weak at finding serviceable Strikers/Goal Scorers.(the hard bit). As the latter is the value end of the transfer market this is a problem for the Club,which needs to be resolved by a new appointment being made, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Jingle Bells said: Murray and his Scouts seem to be reasonably successful with spotting Goal-Keepers and Defenders (the easy bit) but are weak at finding serviceable Strikers/Goal Scorers.(the hard bit). As the latter is the value end of the transfer market this is a problem for the Club,which needs to be resolved by a new appointment being made, imho. Yes we've been blessed with Zlamal, Doyle & Pereira over the past few seasons. A sterling job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Bells Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, SteauaNeedarest said: Yes we've been blessed with Zlamal, Doyle & Pereira over the past few seasons. A sterling job. Just trying to put up a balanced view however I'd be pleased if he does go, overall For instance he did scout Craig Gordon but got caught with his pants down as far as no Centre Forward at the Club (after binning Gordon Smith) during our last relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Bells Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 14 hours ago, cosanostra said: Now we've got the guy who thought signing Conor Sammon and Juwon Oshaniwa on 3yr deals was a good idea, coming back to the club. Finding it hard to be positive about this appointment. Especially if teflon John Murray is still at the club. And then paired Sammon with Tony Watt, both of whom couldn't hit an Elephant's erse with a banjo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Sanchez Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 The man is untouchable for some reason, if the new sporting director doesn't get rid of him we'll have to hire those Dutch fans that stormed their stadium and threw that guy out and told him not to come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesandears Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 So well done John Murray on bringing back Craig Gordon then? Or does this thread not work that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Religion Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, eyesandears said: So well done John Murray on bringing back Craig Gordon then? Or does this thread not work that way? Nope, the guys got to go. Recruitment has been terrible for to long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WASTREL Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 On 28/06/2020 at 12:33, TheBigO said: An issue we have, which adds to the unfairness of the whole thing, is that while we are expelled, our attraction is lessened, so we're in a different market to the one should we be in top flight. Now, we may end up being in the Prem, but how can we plan? We'll, we can have plan A and B for each league, with budgets, but can we already contact players and say, well we might be in top league... Agreed ... We cant recruit fully until we find which league we will bw competeing in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Sanchez Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, eyesandears said: So well done John Murray on bringing back Craig Gordon then? Or does this thread not work that way? I think this has more to do with Ann than it does John Murray. Obviously given the green light by Robbie. I don't think any player from the Premiership needs to be scouted tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, hisnameis said: Obviously our recruitment has been dire this last 4 years but Heard through a friend that when Hearts went in to admin Murray’s pension went belly up so Hearts kept him on but Levein did his own scouting and ignored Murray’s recommendations. I am not saying that he has a spotless record re recruitment but from what I have heard He is not culpable for the shit show that brought us to our position now. Also did Robbie not recruit Lawrence Shankland. Agree that Parky JJ would be great assets in this regard. Well the pension part is rubbish but still maybe the rest is true..some of it has to be. Edited June 29, 2020 by CJGJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John mcCartney Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 JUST GET THE BRONTOSAURUS OUT THE FECKING BUILDING FFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 hours ago, eyesandears said: So well done John Murray on bringing back Craig Gordon then? Or does this thread not work that way? Yeah, sensational scouting that. None of us had ever heard of Gordon. Wonder how Murray found out about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesandears Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Yeah, sensational scouting that. None of us had ever heard of Gordon. Wonder how Murray found out about him So who at Hearts instigated this then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Just now, eyesandears said: So who at Hearts instigated this then? Don’t be thick. The value of your recruitment department is not in signing a 37 year old Gordon, or Naismith or Berra or Lafferty. A three year old could identify them. The value of your recruitment department is in finding suitable players who are under the radar and within price range. Players you have to work hard to find. Murray’s record in that respect is abysmal (as was Levein’s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesandears Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Don’t be thick. The value of your recruitment department is not in signing a 37 year old Gordon, or Naismith or Berra or Lafferty. A three year old could identify them. The value of your recruitment department is in finding suitable players who are under the radar and within price range. Players you have to work hard to find. Murray’s record in that respect is abysmal (as was Levein’s). You don't know. Don't worry I'll ask someone that does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, eyesandears said: You don't know. Don't worry I'll ask someone that does. Ask someone to explain the game to you while you’re at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesandears Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: Ask someone to explain the game to you while you’re at it. I understand you're embarrassed now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Just now, eyesandears said: I understand you're embarrassed now. You’re ascending straight to the top of the lickspittle roster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyesandears Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: You’re ascending straight to the top of the lickspittle roster Great come back, brilliant. Thanks for such constructive input to a simple question. You were called out earlier on this page. Looks like that guy has been proved right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 Never rated Murray since a supporters meeting at Tynecastle when Frail was in charge. He lost the plot when some fan asked him a question about Callum Elliott. How he has survived all this time is a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 I think it says a lot about our scouting and the rest of the business that we don't know which players our Chief Scout is responsible for and which he is not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 30 minutes ago, eyesandears said: You don't know. Don't worry I'll ask someone that does. I thought his answer was on the money myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said: I thought his answer was on the money myself It was indeed. The other guy is making little sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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