How are other clubs coping with this?

[tartofmidlothian]

Too much going on to follow football other than Hearts right now. It seems all the headlines are about us, though - what have other clubs been saying about drastic measures they'll have to take? I noticed something about Yeovil doing the same as us and Hibs putting season tickets on sale.

 

You've got to imagine most of the big clubs have cash to burn, and the small ones with players earning a few hundred quid a week will be covered by the government scheme. It's the ones in between which have to be in trouble, though. The majority in our league and the mid-level English leagues had better start doing what we've done fast, right?

[jambmoz]

Time will tell I suppose, some must be about go down the wages suspension route.

[frankblack]

Its only us and Aberdeen in the Scottish Premier that are being honest about it.  Aberdeen thought they had a lifeline with insurance but that policy runs out in a month and won't be offered again, leaving them with a problem.

 

Other clubs must be paying less money to their staff but take smaller gates, so relatively speaking they must be in at least the same amount of shit as both us and Aberdeen.

 

As for Sevco, well ....

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Its only us and Aberdeen in the Scottish Premier that are being honest about it.  Aberdeen thought they had a lifeline with insurance but that policy runs out in a month and won't be offered again, leaving them with a problem.

 

Other clubs must be paying less money to their staff but take smaller gates, so relatively speaking they must be in at least the same amount of shit as both us and Aberdeen.

 

As for Sevco, well ....

their wage bills will be smaller, clubs generally speaking don’t hold massive cash reserves so it’s very logical that the team with the highest wage bills will be hit hardest when everyone’s income is reduced to the same level -zero!!

 

but they will all follow soon, with the possible exception of celtic

[Cruyff]

Rangers must be toiling, surely?

They've been toiling for years, living on loans and with the wages they are paying out, anyone handing them a court order for money, they'd crumble like dust. 

[Angry Haggis]

11 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Rangers must be toiling, surely?

They've been toiling for years, living on loans and with the wages they are paying out, anyone handing them a court order for money, they'd crumble like dust. 

 

You would think 🤔 

 

Unless a mystery Far East investor ponies up spoon I would not be surprised if they are the first top flight Scottish club to hit the buffers. 

[Five to One]

15 minutes ago, Angry Haggis said:

 

You would think 🤔 

 

Unless a mystery Far East investor ponies up spoon I would not be surprised if they are the first top flight Scottish club to hit the buffers. 

this must be the biggest concern for 2.0. In only the last couple of weeks, the story about the property tycoon coming in to bail them out was published. Nobody will be investing while this is going on. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Every club is in the same boat to a greater or lesser extent. Big clubs with big over heads are mimicked by smaller clubs with lower expenses.

Makes no difference the size of the club as each has the same problem out goings and no income.

The same applies to virtually every household. Some have savings to tide them over but most live hand to mouth.

What rips my pish is the GFA handed out prize money in the normal way, instead of helping the whole league but splitting the cash evenly between all teams. Ok they had to make sure Sevco got their cash as they are really in deep. But Celtic doesn't need it and there are lots of clubs lower down the league that will die long before Celtic feel the pinch due to gate income and Champ / Europa league income. 

[lost in leith]

As a general rule smaller clubs (particularly those outside the top league) are likely to be less stressed than the larger clubs for a couple of reasons.

 

Obviously wages for individual players will be lower so the 80% government contribution will cover 80% of the wage bill for most players, indeed all players at many clubs.

 

Long-term contracts are very unusual.  It is common for smaller clubs to end the season with only a handful of players signed for the next season, so the strain will drop as contracts expire.  I doubt clubs will sign anyone until there is a definite start date for the new season/resumption of this season.

[busby1985]

As Budge said, clubs are waiting/hoping for a miracle. 

[McCrae]

Maybe a solution would be for the SFA to announce this season is void, but use the current league placing for the distribution of prize money now? Could do a lot to help short term cash flow problems.

Edited March 28, 2020 by McCrae

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Not sure everyone else has got their head from out behind the sofa yet.

 

We are being sullied for being up front and honest 

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Not sure everyone else has got their head from out behind the sofa yet.

 

We are being sullied for being up front and honest 

That’s the crux of it. We’ve been honest to the fans and staff meanwhile other clubs are keeping the heads below the parapet while panicking in private. We’re in the situation where we have very large crowds so our projections will be based on that. Clubs will small average attendances oddly may be better off as they will have projections based on 4K or less. 

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

Its only us and Aberdeen in the Scottish Premier that are being honest about it.  Aberdeen thought they had a lifeline with insurance but that policy runs out in a month and won't be offered again, leaving them with a problem.

 

Other clubs must be paying less money to their staff but take smaller gates, so relatively speaking they must be in at least the same amount of shit as both us and Aberdeen.

 

As for Sevco, well ....

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/547202/average-annual-first-team-player-salaray-football-clubs-scottish-premiership/

This link shows the average annual salaries for SPL Clubs. A club like Motherwell have an average of around £60k per annum or 5k per month.

 

So if they have say 20 first team players then they need £100k per month just to pay them never mind the reserves or youth players and all other staff.

 

I know they just received a pay-out of £400k from the SFA/SPFL which will keep them going for a couple of months but without any reserves they and all the other clubs will struggle. 

 

 

[Ehllhayapeh]

Hi All

 

Thanks mods for the forum add. Im a Dundee United fan so cards on the table there straight away. 

I think theres a reality that clubs up and down Scotland may very well go to the wall in the coming weeks and months.

My feelings on what should happen about promotion / relegation wont surprise any of you in that it is neither fair for United not go up or for Hearts to go down. Both outcomes would be grossly unfair. That leaves league reconstruction. 

Theres a very real chance that it will be needed in some form or other to cope with clubs hitting the buffers. I hope all clubs look at what keep the game alive (including the blue and green erse cheeks) and look at at changing the structure.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

That’s the crux of it. We’ve been honest to the fans and staff meanwhile other clubs are keeping the heads below the parapet while panicking in private. We’re in the situation where we have very large crowds so our projections will be based on that. Clubs will small average attendances oddly may be better off as they will have projections based on 4K or less. 

Yeah,  furlough scheme probably works out very well for a lot of clubs including 4 in the Premier for wages too

[avhudtheteeshirt]

14 minutes ago, Ehllhayapeh said:

Hi All

 

Thanks mods for the forum add. Im a Dundee United fan so cards on the table there straight away. 

I think theres a reality that clubs up and down Scotland may very well go to the wall in the coming weeks and months.

My feelings on what should happen about promotion / relegation wont surprise any of you in that it is neither fair for United not go up or for Hearts to go down. Both outcomes would be grossly unfair. That leaves league reconstruction. 

Theres a very real chance that it will be needed in some form or other to cope with clubs hitting the buffers. I hope all clubs look at what keep the game alive (including the blue and green erse cheeks) and look at at changing the structure.

Welcome to the forum.

Your right about the unfairness of saying this is it end of story.

League reconstruction would be the best way to solve the problem, taking the league up to 14 teams playing either twice or three times depending on when the season finally starts.

I think the league cup will not take place next season, and as I said it may only be a 26 game league season with the Scottish Cup?

[DesertDawg]

From what I've heard from other fans, most are staying afloat by cutting expenses to the bone and getting contributions from club officials and fans.  Keeping the lights on at all costs is the priority right now,.

 

This scheme seems to be helping too.

 

The UK Government's furlough scheme "should save most clubs", according to a Scottish League Two official.

The SPFL has offered guidance to clubs who wish to employ the payment scheme amid the coronavirus-enforced break.

The issue was one of those discussed at a series of conference calls involving all 42 SPFL clubs on Friday.

Another League Two official told BBC Scotland the process "will work for us and is quite good, and it appears part-time players will be covered".

The furlough scheme would allow clubs to claim up to 80% of players wages with a maximum limit set at £2,500 per month.

If players agree, it will require a change to their current terms and conditions and these would have to be lodged with the Scottish Football Association registration department within 14 days of the application.

Should they not want to do this, players would either have to go through a redundancy process or would have their contracts ripped up.

[Ronald Villiers]

Every club will be suffering big time right now.  Budge has been criticised by the media and half wits like Mikey Stewart and fat boy Kris Boyd for showing some transparency in how we can deal with our finances.  Barcelona, Bayern Munich and numerous other teams are doing the same.  It's all about damage limitation.  My Hibs mate reckons we're going to go bust as we're paying too high wages based on Budge looking to half players wages.  They love to kid themselves on.  Let's see all of the other teams doing similar to what Budge is looking to do.  Hibs are already looking to 'defer' wages.  Let's see how that plans out.

[Beast Boy]

Through denial mainly, from what I can glean.

[Gordon Ramsay]

Juventus players agreed to 4 month pay freeze. 

[wavydavy]

According to the Sun our neighbours across the City are doing things the proper way. The players have allegedly approached the club and are in discussions about postponing some of their pay for a period of time with a view to have it repaid to them in installments at a later date.

 

I was loathed to put a link to their horrible little rag on here.

 

They really don't like us though as they can't resist having a dig by suggesting Hibs are doing it the proper way. The article incidentally was not written by either Boyd or Stewart I hasten to add but some guy called Grieve I think it was

[Ronald Villiers]

Hibs were always going to make out that they're dealing with this differently from us after the backlash Budge received.  They will deal with it just the same as us and all of the other teams that are looking to cut staff wages.  If their deluded fans really think that their owner will pay their players the wages that were 'postponed' in a few months time, they're bonkers.

[gorgie rd eh11]

 

 

 The players approached the club.

 

                                 

 

 

[sinks]

As I understand it,the furlough scheme only allows for 80% of basic pay ,so all add ons such as appearance money  etc will not be taken into account when calculating payments

[Cruyff]

21 hours ago, Angry Haggis said:

 

You would think 🤔 

 

Unless a mystery Far East investor ponies up spoon I would not be surprised if they are the first top flight Scottish club to hit the buffers. 

Apparently King was forced out because he refused to inject any funds into the club to keep its head above water during this lockdown. Their running costs are around £4.85million a month, they have a huge amount of debt and no cash reserves, hence why they get Jim Traynor to make up a story for the press about Morelos going to [insert club] for [insert ridiculous valuation].

 

What’s worse for Rangers is, as per, they'd rather cut of their noses to spite their face and not ask players to take a pay cut because Celtic haven't.

[tartofmidlothian]

Spurs have cut wages for 550 staff by 20% and placed many on furlough, the second EPL club to do so after Newcastle. Daniel Levy is asking players and managers across the league to cut their wages too.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/mar/31/daniel-levy-premier-league-managers-and-players-pay-cuts-tottenham-chairman-coronavirus

[reaths17]

On 28/03/2020 at 15:46, Ehllhayapeh said:

Hi All

 

Thanks mods for the forum add. Im a Dundee United fan so cards on the table there straight away. 

I think theres a reality that clubs up and down Scotland may very well go to the wall in the coming weeks and months.

My feelings on what should happen about promotion / relegation wont surprise any of you in that it is neither fair for United not go up or for Hearts to go down. Both outcomes would be grossly unfair. That leaves league reconstruction. 

Theres a very real chance that it will be needed in some form or other to cope with clubs hitting the buffers. I hope all clubs look at what keep the game alive (including the blue and green erse cheeks) and look at at changing the structure.

how can we reconstruct and keep 4 sectarian bigotfests, the tv companies asked for a guarantee that there were 4 from what i remember

[itsnomarooned]

I wonder if the punishment for entering administration will be relaxed if it’s directly related to the lack of football. 

[Greedy Jambo]

I've yet to see any other spfl club take the measures that we have. ( i could be wrong)

You can't blame Ann for being pro active but i really think her and Craig Levein have pushed our finances to the limit. 

It' wouldn't be so bad if we had a decent football team on the park but we're absolutely hopeless. 

Yes we've built a nice new stand as well, but how the hell did it manage to double in price?

We've also ploughed money into the women's team. I don't see that as a major problem but maybe get the main team sorted first?

Edited March 31, 2020 by Space Pirate

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 29/03/2020 at 03:09, gorgie rd eh11 said:

 

 

 The players approached the club.

 

                                 

 

 

 

How generous of them. Some clubs seem to be agreeing wage deferrals - Leeds Utd for example. More clubs seem to be going down the temporary wage cut though - not just the likes of Juventus, Barcelona and German clubs but Birmingham have too (50%).

 

It's probably easier to defer wages in England because they have all the TV money coming in at the higher level. Scottish clubs don't have that cushion so each club will need to find a way to pay deferred wages from whatever future income they think they'll get. Risky.

 

Footballers expecting to get their full wages either now or in future are not coming out of this very well IMO. Especially when the fans who pay their wages (in Scotland anyhow) are losing their jobs or getting paid less.

 

It was interesting to see Stendel so far being the only manager to completely give up all his wages voluntarily, considering the stick he got from the media when he arrived. He's shown the rest of the managers up with that gesture, especially the likes of Jack, McInnes, Lennon and Gerrard who are all on very good money.

Edited March 31, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[SectionDJambo]

4 hours ago, reaths17 said:

how can we reconstruct and keep 4 sectarian bigotfests, the tv companies asked for a guarantee that there were 4 from what i remember

If the tv companies aren’t careful about what they try to browbeat the Scottish clubs into how to organise their leagues, they may end up with no old firm games to show. Many clubs in Scotland could go bust, with no appetite from the banks to help out clubs who couldn’t pay the money back any time soon, if at all. This will include big clubs, possibly including Rangers again, if players don’t get real about any expectation of full wages and talk of deferral doesn’t get snuffed out.

It is staggering how ignorant of how serious a situation this, is for the future of Scottish football, to the media in Scotland.

It’s time the bluster and point scoring by many stopped, and a consensus as to how to save as many as possible of the clubs was agreed.

The SFA, so called guardians of our game, are again being shown up to be devoid of ideas and initiatives.

[Bazzas right boot]

50 minutes ago, Space Pirate said:

I've yet to see any other spfl club take the measures that we have. ( i could be wrong)

You can't blame Ann for being pro active but i really think her and Craig Levein have pushed our finances to the limit. 

It' wouldn't be so bad if we had a decent football team on the park but we're absolutely hopeless. 

Yes we've built a nice new stand as well, but how the hell did it manage to double in price?

We've also ploughed money into the women's team. I don't see that as a major problem but maybe get the main team sorted first?

 

 

I'll hazard a guess that no business has a plan for a pandemic outbreak. 

It's a fair effort to try and blame this on CL and Budge tho. 

 

You deserve a cookie for effort. 

 

 

Takes a bit skill to get CL, Budge, the stand and the women's team all in to blame for us not being prepared for a global pandemic. 

 

Fantastic stuff. 

 

 

[Greedy Jambo]

1 minute ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

I'll hazard a guess that no business has a plan for a pandemic outbreak. 

It's a fair effort to try and blame this on CL and Budge tho. 

 

You deserve a cookie for effort. 

 

 

Takes a bit skill to get CL, Budge, the stand and the women's team all in to blame for us not being prepared for a global pandemic. 

 

Fantastic stuff. 

 

 

 

If we were in a better place financially we wouldn't have been the first team in the spfl to declare wage cuts. 

It's pretty simple really, you can ignore they state we're in all you want, it's probably the only thing you're good at. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Space Pirate said:

 

If we were in a better place financially we wouldn't have been the first team in the spfl to declare wage cuts. 

It's pretty simple really, you can ignore they state we're in all you want, it's probably the only thing you're good at. 

 

 

I'm fully aware of the effects of the pandemic on business , CL and Budge are not to be blamed. 

 

Good effort tho. 

 

[Greedy Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I'm fully aware of the effects of the pandemic on business , CL and Budge are not to be blamed. 

 

Good effort tho. 

 

They're not blamed for the pandemic but they are blamed for the state we're in. 

You're saying we would be fine if it wasn't for the pandemic?

It's highly likely that we would be in the championship after spending millions of pounds. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Space Pirate

[Guest ToqueJambo]

10 minutes ago, Space Pirate said:

 

If we were in a better place financially we wouldn't have been the first team in the spfl to declare wage cuts. 

It's pretty simple really, you can ignore they state we're in all you want, it's probably the only thing you're good at. 

 

 

We're the first team to do it in Scotland because we have the most realistic owner in Scotland. Others are being run by Boris Johnson clones - waffle, delay, deflect, pass the buck....  then full steam ahead panic! Or weak owners who want others to make decisions for them. Or remote owners from America or wherever who care more about their diving investments and other failing businesses than their plaything in quaint old Scotland.

 

Seeing as this is a thread about other clubs, Barcelona, Juventus and German teams are all in a pretty good place financially and they declared wage cuts about the time we did or maybe even before in some cases.

[Greedy Jambo]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

We're the first team to do it in Scotland because we have the most realistic owner in Scotland. Others are being run by Boris Johnson clones - waffle, delay, deflect, pass the buck....  then full steam ahead panic! Or weak owners who want others to make decisions for them. Or remote owners from America or wherever who care more about their diving investments and other failing businesses than their plaything in quaint old Scotland.

 

Seeing as this is a thread about other clubs, Barcelona, Juventus and German teams are all in a pretty good place financially and they declared wage cuts about the time we did or maybe even before in some cases.

No offence mate but you're just another one of the supporters that have been backing the CL regime no matter what over the past 5 years. 

A few of you on here take maroon tinted specs to a whole other level. 

[Greedy Jambo]

To some clubs, CL means champions league, to us it means absolute ****ing failure. 

[Greedy Jambo]

He's still here by the way and so is macphee. 

They've taken a wage cut though... so all is fine. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Space Pirate said:

No offence mate but you're just another one of the supporters that have been backing the CL regime no matter what over the past 5 years. 

A few of you on here take maroon tinted specs to a whole other level. 

 

Well, yes I have been supporting Hearts the last 5 years. Thanks for noticing. Levein's history. Budge will see us through this crisis, while clubs with less responsible owners will go bust. Not that "fans" like you will ever thank her.

[Greedy Jambo]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Well, yes I have been supporting Hearts the last 5 years. Thanks for noticing. Levein's history. Budge will see us through this crisis, while clubs with less responsible owners will go bust. Not that "fans" like you will ever thank her.

 

I think you need to forget about leveins history and see what he has done to us recently. He should have just walked after being sacked as DOF and sacked as Manager, then maybe we could leave it be. 

Ann will see us through this crisis? I think you'll find that the fans will see us through this crisis YET AGAIN. 

[Bazzas right boot]

14 minutes ago, Space Pirate said:

They're not blamed for the pandemic but they are blamed for the state we're in. 

You're saying we would be fine if it wasn't for the pandemic?

It's highly likely that we would be in the championship after spending millions of pounds. 

 

Wtf you on about then? this is about clubs coping with the pandemic and the resulting football shutdown. 

 

Financially, yes. 

 

Maybe aye, maybe naw. 

We could also have stayed up and won the sc. 

We'll never know. 

👍

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Space Pirate said:

 

I think you need to forget about leveins history and see what he has done to us recently. He should have just walked after being sacked as DOF and sacked as Manager, then maybe we could leave it be. 

Ann will see us through this crisis? I think you'll find that the fans will see us through this crisis YET AGAIN. 

 

 

****ing hell. 

 

This thread is about clubs coping with the pandemic. 

 

Even now, you bang on about CL. 

Tragic and total loss of perspective In what is happening to Hearts and football clubs across the world due to this pandemic. 

 

But, aye, CL, CL, CL. 

 

Brutal. 

 

 

[Greedy Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Wtf you on about then? this is about clubs coping with the pandemic and the resulting football shutdown. 

 

Financially, yes. 

 

Maybe aye, maybe naw. 

We could also have stayed up and won the sc. 

We'll never know. 

👍

 

 

 

keep dreaming. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Space Pirate said:

 

keep dreaming. 

 

 

Aye, if CL left we'd be fine. 

What pandemic, eh? 

He's the issue right now. 

 

Tbh, If CL left us, every club in Europe would be fine. 

 

It's all his fault. 

 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

11 minutes ago, Space Pirate said:

 

I think you need to forget about leveins history and see what he has done to us recently. He should have just walked after being sacked as DOF and sacked as Manager, then maybe we could leave it be. 

Ann will see us through this crisis? I think you'll find that the fans will see us through this crisis YET AGAIN. 

 

That's why I wrote Levein IS history.

 

Budge is a Hearts fan, so yes you got that right. Have a lollipop.

[Greedy Jambo]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

That's why I wrote Levein IS history.

 

Budge is a Hearts fan, so yes you got that right. Have a lollipop.

 

My bad, i didn't read the IS. 

But your bad, he's not, he's still there earning a wage. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Space Pirate

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Space Pirate said:

 

My bad, i didn't read the IS. 

But your bad, he's not, he's still there earning a wage. 

 

 

There is Litterally a global pandemic going on, taking lives and closing down businesses. 

In a football sense, Hearts and Scottish football are at risk and still your biggest concern is that CL is earning a wage (or half one). 

 

Fair doos. 

Maybe it's your coping mechanism, focus on the unimportant to distract from the bigger issues and more pressing matters. 

[Greedy Jambo]

45 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

There is Litterally a global pandemic going on, taking lives and closing down businesses. 

In a football sense, Hearts and Scottish football are at risk and still your biggest concern is that CL is earning a wage (or half one). 

 

Fair doos. 

Maybe it's your coping mechanism, focus on the unimportant to distract from the bigger issues and more pressing matters. 

 

If only you were as this concerned 3 years ago.