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jake

IRAQ

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jake

Thought I'd share this link.

I know a lot will probably know of this but it sobering the figures.

2.4 million dead since the US UK and allies invaded .

Since 2014 .

Not since 2005 .

2014.

The US has dropped 105 000 bombs and missiles.

I mean come on to feck .

 

Anyway the article is worth a read .

15 years in March and if anyone says we got rid of a tyrant then fair enough.

A baby one by our standards of inflicting violence right enough.

 

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jake
26 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

The figures seem to vary a lot depending on the source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War

 

Think that was addressed in the article.

I suppose it depends on your viewpoint.

The stated figures in the numbers quoted are based on credited methodology I think the term is.

These links all throughout the article.

 

It is also worth remembering the duration of this war.

15 years .

 

 

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Justin Z
18 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Wikipedia can be edited by anyone.

 

Wikipedia is, in general, the best source for unbiased information on the internet. In general. It doesn't mean blindly believe it or turn off your skepticism, but this is a lazy, meaningless statement.

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jake
1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

Wikipedia is, in general, the best source for unbiased information on the internet. In general. It doesn't mean blindly believe it or turn off your skepticism, but this is a lazy, meaningless statement.

I read the link it quoted the Lancet report also.

I think that the article I've quoted gives reference to other examples of sizing down casualties and it also concludes the Lancet one as being most rigorous.

 

No?

 

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indianajones
1 hour ago, jake said:

Thought I'd share this link.

I know a lot will probably know of this but it sobering the figures.

2.4 million dead since the US UK and allies invaded .

Since 2014 .

Not since 2005 .

2014.

The US has dropped 105 000 bombs and missiles.

I mean come on to feck .

 

Anyway the article is worth a read .

15 years in March and if anyone says we got rid of a tyrant then fair enough.

A baby one by our standards of inflicting violence right enough.

 

 

Aye but the WMD.

 

Aye but all that tasty oil. 

 

Disgrace of a 'war'.

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Space Mackerel
32 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Wikipedia is, in general, the best source for unbiased information on the internet. In general. It doesn't mean blindly believe it or turn off your skepticism, but this is a lazy, meaningless statement.

 

Maybe for asking who was in ABBA, not for geo-political stuff.

Edited by Space Mackerel

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Justin Z
39 minutes ago, jake said:

I read the link it quoted the Lancet report also.

I think that the article I've quoted gives reference to other examples of sizing down casualties and it also concludes the Lancet one as being most rigorous.

 

No?

 

 

Nothing wrong with your choice in my opinion.

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jake
24 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Aye but the WMD.

 

Aye but all that tasty oil. 

 

Disgrace of a 'war'.

No one held accountable .

 

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indianajones
Just now, jake said:

No one held accountable .

 

 

Does Iraq have a central bank now by any chance? 

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jake
6 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Nothing wrong with your choice in my opinion.

I wished it was fake mate I really do.

 

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Jambof3tornado
2 hours ago, jake said:

Thought I'd share this link.

I know a lot will probably know of this but it sobering the figures.

2.4 million dead since the US UK and allies invaded .

Since 2014 .

Not since 2005 .

2014.

The US has dropped 105 000 bombs and missiles.

I mean come on to feck .

 

Anyway the article is worth a read .

15 years in March and if anyone says we got rid of a tyrant then fair enough.

A baby one by our standards of inflicting violence right enough.

 

Missiles are fired or launched not dropped.

 

I should know.

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Gorgiewave

It was so much peaceful when a genocidal dictator was in power.

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jake
13 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Missiles are fired or launched not dropped.

 

I should know.

Mixture of both I think.

My bad composition.

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Justin Z
16 minutes ago, jake said:

I wished it was fake mate I really do.

 

Same.

 

8 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

It was so much peaceful when a genocidal dictator was in power.

 

Totally worth the several trillion dollars to have just made it worse.

 

Oh well, bootlickers gonna bootlick.

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jake
8 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

It was so much peaceful when a genocidal dictator was in power.

To be replaced with ISIS controlled areas then aerial bombardment it was hell replaced with the same mate.

It's no good replacing that with something worse.

I know you cant believe that reason for all of this.

His threat was to profit not for peace.

Or human rights.

 

 

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Cade

Iraq is on the verge of a full blown sectarian civil war.

The invading powers made a grave error in dismantling the army and the police force after toppling the old regime.

We then more or less let private security contractors run the place and plunder it's wealth whilst our troops pulled out, then they themselves left and all that was left was a huge power vacuum.

 

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jake
6 minutes ago, Cade said:

Iraq is on the verge of a full blown sectarian civil war.

The invading powers made a grave error in dismantling the army and the police force after toppling the old regime.

We then more or less let private security contractors run the place and plunder it's wealth whilst our troops pulled out, then they themselves left and all that was left was a huge power vacuum.

 

I dont think it was a mistake .

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Maple Leaf
2 hours ago, jake said:

Thought I'd share this link.

I know a lot will probably know of this but it sobering the figures.

2.4 million dead since the US UK and allies invaded .

Since 2014 .

Not since 2005 .

2014.

The US has dropped 105 000 bombs and missiles.

I mean come on to feck .

 

Anyway the article is worth a read .

15 years in March and if anyone says we got rid of a tyrant then fair enough.

A baby one by our standards of inflicting violence right enough.

 

 

The invasion and occupation of Iraq was a criminal act, mainly motivated by young George Bush wanting to pay back Saddam for threatening to kill old George Bush.  Millions dead. And it happened in the 21st century, when we're supposed to be smarter.

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Space Mackerel

Or General Wesley Clark might know a bit or two?

 

 

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robbo1874
3 hours ago, jake said:

I dont think it was a mistake .

Free

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ri Alban
9 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Wikipedia is, in general, the best source for unbiased information on the internet. In general. It doesn't mean blindly believe it or turn off your skepticism, but this is a lazy, meaningless statement.

He should remember that his statement works both ways. While he may be suggesting people of government have doctored it, someone who has the opposite agenda can doctor it , anaw

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Justin Z
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

He should remember that his statement works both ways. While he may be suggesting people of government have doctored it, someone who has the opposite agenda can doctor it , anaw

 

I dunno what he's suggesting to be honest. Wikipedia has rigorous standards for sticking to a neutral point of view. Anyone can edit it as a one off, but it won't stay that way, because the community will fix it. There's a reason it's been found to have been more accurate than privately published encyclopedias: "Many hands make light work".

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ri Alban
3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I dunno what he's suggesting to be honest. Wikipedia has rigorous standards for sticking to a neutral point of view. Anyone can edit it as a one off, but it won't stay that way, because the community will fix it. There's a reason it's been found to have been more accurate than privately published encyclopedias: "Many hands make light work".

Bloody Germans! And the making light work of things. :)

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jake
12 hours ago, robbo1874 said:

Free

Eh?

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robbo1874
7 minutes ago, jake said:

Eh?

**** knows what that's about 😐

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Space Mackerel
9 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

I dunno what he's suggesting to be honest. Wikipedia has rigorous standards for sticking to a neutral point of view. Anyone can edit it as a one off, but it won't stay that way, because the community will fix it. There's a reason it's been found to have been more accurate than privately published encyclopedias: "Many hands make light work".

 

Here is an interesting wee read Justin.

 

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/the-philip-cross-affair/

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felix
58 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Here is an interesting wee read Justin.

 

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/the-philip-cross-affair/

 

I used to donate money to Wiki once a year. Thought it was a fantastic set up, until I heard about Philip Cross.

Didn't they track him down, and he turns out to be one individual - stuck in a room all day ?

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Space Mackerel
16 minutes ago, felix said:

 

I used to donate money to Wiki once a year. Thought it was a fantastic set up, until I heard about Philip Cross.

Didn't they track him down, and he turns out to be one individual - stuck in a room all day ?

 

No idea pal.

 

Auld Jimmy W, the owner seems in cahoots with him though.

 

Edit, Cross is banned from any editing now.

 

https://www.mintpressnews.com/phillip-cross-the-mystery-wikipedia-editor-targeting-anti-war-sites/250824/

Edited by Space Mackerel

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felix
26 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

No idea pal.

 

Auld Jimmy W, the owner seems in cahoots with him though.

 

Edit, Cross is banned from any editing now.

 

https://www.mintpressnews.com/phillip-cross-the-mystery-wikipedia-editor-targeting-anti-war-sites/250824/

I think he was a "vulnerable individual"; easily manipulated and tracked down by George Galloway.

If he's banned, no doubt someone similar will come along.

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Cade

Wiki may be editable by anybody but links to sources quoted are there 99% of the time.

Never trust anything that has no sources quoted or quotes from only a single source.

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Space Mackerel
6 minutes ago, felix said:

I think he was a "vulnerable individual"; easily manipulated and tracked down by George Galloway.

If he's banned, no doubt someone similar will come along.

 

That Oliver Kaam and I have just found out Sky's foreign correspondent and new resident 'expert' Deborah Haynes have been on Integrity Initiative Courses.

You could see it a mile of with her reporting though.  

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redjambo
On 20/01/2020 at 19:58, Jambof3tornado said:

Missiles are fired or launched not dropped.

 

I should know.

 

I'm sure you could easily drop a missile.

 

Your superiors wouldn't be too happy though. ;)

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redjambo
13 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

I dunno what he's suggesting to be honest. Wikipedia has rigorous standards for sticking to a neutral point of view. Anyone can edit it as a one off, but it won't stay that way, because the community will fix it. There's a reason it's been found to have been more accurate than privately published encyclopedias: "Many hands make light work".

 

In my experience that's all and good until you have a less popular page and someone who considers it their fiefdom. I stopped contributing to Wikipedia when I changed a page to reflect the most recent (and widely accepted) scientific discovery, only to have it reverted by the guy who had made most edits to the page. I suspect he was miffed because I had added it before he did. I re-added it, he re-reverted, and then after a wee discussion with him where I rapidly realised that he was as approachable as a Vogon guard (and probably in his late teens), I opted out of any possible ensuing flame war and never went back. Due to my experience, I'll take into consideration the content at Wikipedia, but I won't trust it.

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Jambof3tornado
14 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I'm sure you could easily drop a missile.

 

Your superiors wouldn't be too happy though. ;)

Haha dropped several skyflash warheads during servicing, heavy buggers so they were!! Also had a sidewinder fall out the back doors of an LDV van on the way to lossiemouth after taking a hump bridge a bit fast.

 

Some of the shit I've seen and done should be in a book!!

 

Actually dropped inert bombs during the gulf war to reduce collateral damage when the weight of the bomb alone was sufficient to destroy the target. 1st time it happened was in error but was waffled into being a good idea!!

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redjambo
3 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Actually dropped inert bombs during the gulf war to reduce collateral damage when the weight of the bomb alone was sufficient to destroy the target. 1st time it happened was in error but was waffled into being a good idea!!

 

Interesting. What sort of targets lent themselves to that? Just small ones made of the right material?

 

Ties in with the "slashing" drone they killed Suleimani with. I'd always thought of missiles etc. exploding, never considered them as having other types of impact, so to speak.

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Jambof3tornado
12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Interesting. What sort of targets lent themselves to that? Just small ones made of the right material?

 

Ties in with the "slashing" drone they killed Suleimani with. I'd always thought of missiles etc. exploding, never considered them as having other types of impact, so to speak.

Think of a surface to air missile launcher on a high rise roof top in the centre of a built up area, or another was in a school yard. The damage caused by an inert/dummy bomb dropped from 15000ft was enough to destroy the target without creating a huge mess. The bombs were still fitted with paveway guidance systems so were highly accurate. The effort put in to avoid collateral damage was incredible.

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redjambo
4 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Think of a surface to air missile launcher on a high rise roof top in the centre of a built up area, or another was in a school yard. The damage caused by an inert/dummy bomb dropped from 15000ft was enough to destroy the target without creating a huge mess. The bombs were still fitted with paveway guidance systems so were highly accurate. The effort put in to avoid collateral damage was incredible.

 

Thanks, Jf3T. It's good that the last part of your paragraph is more the case nowadays.

Edited by redjambo

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jake
2 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Think of a surface to air missile launcher on a high rise roof top in the centre of a built up area, or another was in a school yard. The damage caused by an inert/dummy bomb dropped from 15000ft was enough to destroy the target without creating a huge mess. The bombs were still fitted with paveway guidance systems so were highly accurate. The effort put in to avoid collateral damage was incredible.

The effort put into avoid  collateral damage ?

No offence mate but that's bullshit.

The effort put into violence with style aye .

Effort put into applying the violence with style included.

MSM collusion 

Lies 

CIA drug funded terrorists to enable our elected terrorist governments.

There is fek all interest in collateral damage.

In fact I'd go so far as to say its deliberate policy to draw out a sectarian war.

 

You are aware of tactics being a soldier.

Sorry mate I dont want to have a go but 2.4million deaths is not avoiding fek all.

And 105 000 bombs is evidence.

 

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jake
5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Thanks, Jf3T. It's good that the last part of your paragraph is more the case nowadays.

Surprised you buy into that shite.

So extra judicial drone killings is acceptable as long as they are not carried out on UK or US citizens.

 

 

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redjambo
3 minutes ago, jake said:

Surprised you buy into that shite.

So extra judicial drone killings is acceptable as long as they are not carried out on UK or US citizens.

 

That's a long (and incorrect) step from what I said to your second sentence. :D

 

So, everything else being equal, you don't think that reducing collateral damage (which often involves killing bystanders) is a good thing in a conflict, Jake?

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Jambof3tornado
18 minutes ago, jake said:

The effort put into avoid  collateral damage ?

No offence mate but that's bullshit.

The effort put into violence with style aye .

Effort put into applying the violence with style included.

MSM collusion 

Lies 

CIA drug funded terrorists to enable our elected terrorist governments.

There is fek all interest in collateral damage.

In fact I'd go so far as to say its deliberate policy to draw out a sectarian war.

 

You are aware of tactics being a soldier.

Sorry mate I dont want to have a go but 2.4million deaths is not avoiding fek all.

And 105 000 bombs is evidence.

 

All about opinions bud, no offence taken but dont believe everything on the internet, sometimes people have agendas.

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Governor Tarkin
19 minutes ago, redjambo said:

So, everything else being equal, 

 

 

Wait, everything else is equal? 

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jake
16 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

That's a long (and incorrect) step from what I said to your second sentence. :D

 

So, everything else being equal, you don't think that reducing collateral damage (which often involves killing bystanders) is a good thing in a conflict, Jake?

Collateral damage ?

It's funny how we use language.

Yes I suppose it is .

I suppose 2.4 million deaths after a 15 year conflict is better than 3.4 .

Red .

106 000 missiles bombs dropped fired.

Average cost of a bomb missile?

That we even think to discuss it is a measure of where we are.

 

If we put ....effort cash etc

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jake
12 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

All about opinions bud, no offence taken but dont believe everything on the internet, sometimes people have agendas.

I dont believe much anymore mate.

But the effort to make sure there is no collateral damage rings hollow .

 

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redjambo
Just now, jake said:

Collateral damage ?

It's funny how we use language.

Yes I suppose it is .

I suppose 2.4 million deaths after a 15 year conflict is better than 3.4 .

Red .

106 000 missiles bombs dropped fired.

Average cost of a bomb missile?

That we even think to discuss it is a measure of where we are.

 

If we put ....effort cash etc

 

Good, I'm glad we agree.

 

I too look forward to the day when the human race is truly at peace and the international military-industrial complex is no longer a thing, but feck me it will be a long time a coming, if it all, as long as they're all earning a healthy pay packet from it.

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