Martin_T Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 If the Stendel rumours are true, his preferred playing style at Barnsley was Jurgen Klopp's Gegenpressing. The basic premise of this is that as soon as the team loses possession of the ball, they press the opposition very aggressively, seeking to win it back within six seconds as that is how long it takes the opposition to get back into their tactical shape. It requires the players to be extremely fit and preferably quick. Do we have players in the current squad capable of adapting to that style? https://totalfootballanalysis.com/training-analysis/gegenpressing-tactical-analysis-analysis-statistics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Martin_T said: If the Stendel rumours are true, his preferred playing style at Barnsley was Jurgen Klopp's Gegenpressing. The basic premise of this is that as soon as the team loses possession of the ball, they press the opposition very aggressively, seeking to win it back within six seconds as that is how long it takes the opposition to get back into their tactical shape. It requires the players to be extremely fit and preferably quick. Do we have players in the current squad capable of adapting to that style? https://totalfootballanalysis.com/training-analysis/gegenpressing-tactical-analysis-analysis-statistics Nope, but with Tynecastle being at the smaller end of the pitches spectrum it would be a good place to adopt such a style IMO. The weakness in both OF is their defences and a gegenpress would be the way to discomfort them. Might be more difficult on their bigger pitches but that was the key to our wins at Tynecastle in the last couple of years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Didn't pep implement this before Klopp whilst at Barca? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambothump Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Exactly what we did to Celtic at the first game last season, then Livingston did the same to us at Tynecastle a few weeks later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Gegenpress AKA Blitzkrieg!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Homme said: Didn't pep implement this before Klopp whilst at Barca? Guardiola's style is tiki taka, which is dominating possession of the football with lots of short and quick passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Shillyshally Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) Just now, Martin_T said: Guardiola's style is tiki taka, which is dominating possession of the football with lots of short and quick passing. Do the two not go hand in hand? One with ball, the other not Edited November 21, 2019 by Ricardo Shillyshally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Martin_T said: Guardiola's style is tiki taka, which is dominating possession of the football with lots of short and quick passing. Which he learned by watching old recordings of Barca v Hibs games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Sure sounds better than Levein’s.. ‘retreat like **** then hoooof’ style! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Martin_T said: Guardiola's style is tiki taka, which is dominating possession of the football with lots of short and quick passing. Then closing down and winning the ball back quickly when they don't.Actually Pep himself says he does not play Tika taka I think Klopp's is a more extreme form of pressing though. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/players/lionel-messi/11162958/Pep-Guardiola-I-hate-tiki-taka-its-rubbish-and-completely-pointless.html Edited November 21, 2019 by vegas-voss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 FFS come OAAAAAAAN [insert name here], dae ra Gegenpressin' hing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Results not strategy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 29 minutes ago, Homme said: Didn't pep implement this before Klopp whilst at Barca? The Dutch started it in the 60’s and 70’s, especially at Ajax and Holland in 74 under Rinus Michels. Obviously Cruyff took that to Barça as manager and Guardiola learnt from him. School playground pressing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Rudy T said: Sure sounds better than Levein’s.. ‘retreat like **** then hoooof’ style! Thats the French style. Retreat and wave the white flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Will be a couple of transfer windows before we have the squad to play that method every week. Too many old legs in current squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 23 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: Which he learned by watching old recordings of Barca v Hibs games. Yes, but it was really just the wonderful Hibernian he was watching, if truth be told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) I think you need time to get the right players collectively. Some players naturally don’t have the aggression or simply the mentality to keep concentration on the task or roles given to them. Its fanciful to think implementing this with any group of players will simply work. We probably do have a good core to start with though. Edited November 21, 2019 by Debut 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Sir Gio said: Results not strategy Chicken and egg scenario ? You need the strategy to get results. To me its probably a basic one which is what I’d like. Nothing over complicated. Get the right players in, work at it week to week until it’s drummed in. We’ve always said what do Hearts have to fear in this country? It’s about time we had another manager wanting to take the game to teams and taking the game just isn’t solely about when you have the ball. Its how bad you want to get it back. Force mistakes, have players automatically looking to pounce and break. Great in theory but I’d rather take my chances with that over a season than anything else. Edited November 21, 2019 by Debut 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sac Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Homme said: Didn't pep implement this before Klopp whilst at Barca? My understanding too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Shuttlesworth Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Martin_T said: Guardiola's style is tiki taka, which is dominating possession of the football with lots of short and quick passing. Guardiola’s style isn’t tiki takes, he hates tiki taka. It’s a phrase that has been wrongly attributed to his teams style of play. Tiki Taka is passing for the sake of passing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester copperpot Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Jambothump said: Exactly what we did to Celtic at the first game last season, then Livingston did the same to us at Tynecastle a few weeks later Not really no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: Chicken and egg scenario ? You need the strategy to get results. To me its probably a basic one which is what I’d like. Nothing over complicated. Get the right players in, work at it week to week until it’s drummed in. We’ve always said what do Hearts have to fear in this country? It’s about time we had another manager wanting to take the game to teams and taking the game just isn’t solely about when you have the ball. Its how bad you want to get it back. Force mistakes, have players automatically looking to pounce and break. Great in theory but I’d rather take my chances with that over a season than anything else. There’s such a clamour now a days for complicated systems. The basics remain however, play to your strengths, work hard off the ball, support each other and do the simple things when defending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 53 minutes ago, Italian Lambretta said: Thats the French style. Retreat and wave the white flag. Unbelievable Irony coming from a poster with Italian in his username. ername 😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Spellczech said: Nope, but with Tynecastle being at the smaller end of the pitches spectrum it would be a good place to adopt such a style IMO. The weakness in both OF is their defences and a gegenpress would be the way to discomfort them. Might be more difficult on their bigger pitches but that was the key to our wins at Tynecastle in the last couple of years... Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minturn Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Homme said: Didn't pep implement this before Klopp whilst at Barca? Klopp ran this at BVB and Mainz... actually thing its back from the Dutch/Ajax days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Just now, Minturn said: Klopp ran this at BVB and Mainz... actually thing its back from the Dutch/Ajax days. Yeah someone mentioned the Cryuff / Pep / Barca link which is most plausible. Pep certainly brought the 6 second thing back into fashion though in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 The difference is in the SPL they will just hoof a diagnol 70 yards and play for 2nd balls. In other leagues, many teams persist in playing it out, allowing for this to work. It can't work if they pass it to the keeper and launch it into orbit. It also relays on a good opening and not going behind. Liverpool in the first seasons under Klopp had a bad habit of routing teams, but then dropping points in games that were tight after 60/70 minutes. It knackers your team. When it works, it works tho. I do like it, but I fear in our league it may not be suitable for a lot of games. Not against it tho, I think we'd have some exciting games, but also some frustrating ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALDOS' Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Martin_T said: Guardiola's style is tiki taka, which is dominating possession of the football with lots of short and quick passing. That's part of it, but especially at Barca his policy was swarming the opposition when they had the ball, never had a team done it so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Would be brilliant at Tynecastle and similar grounds but we would have to adjust at the likes of Parkhead, Ibrox and Hampden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Dundee Utd vs Barcelona. Jim McInally who was a decent player but nothing special but he got in their faces as soon as they got the ball and completely disrupted their game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: Chicken and egg scenario ? You need the strategy to get results. To me its probably a basic one which is what I’d like. Nothing over complicated. Get the right players in, work at it week to week until it’s drummed in. We’ve always said what do Hearts have to fear in this country? It’s about time we had another manager wanting to take the game to teams and taking the game just isn’t solely about when you have the ball. Its how bad you want to get it back. Force mistakes, have players automatically looking to pounce and break. Great in theory but I’d rather take my chances with that over a season than anything else. Has backfired spectacularly this season for him and he started to make poor calls resultant. Rather than hire a philosophy I'd rather hire someone who is capable of dealing with stress. Levein couldn't and if I'm honest my fears are this guy wont either. Said on his thread last night it could easily be a bad fit. We have star players on long term contracts that don't fit this strategy. Coupled with awful performance this season, even accounting for some rough rewards from the boardroom, Hearts fans are not going to be sympathetic like Barnsley fans. He's been tore a new one several times this season, binning his most experienced players seems very odd when you plead lack of experience. Worrying for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Homme said: Didn't pep implement this before Klopp whilst at Barca? yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, VALDOS' said: That's part of it, but especially at Barca his policy was swarming the opposition when they had the ball, never had a team done it so well. What Bielsa taught him. Mind you Bielsa has taken a more pragmatic approach himself of late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: The difference is in the SPL they will just hoof a diagnol 70 yards and play for 2nd balls. In other leagues, many teams persist in playing it out, allowing for this to work. It can't work if they pass it to the keeper and launch it into orbit. It also relays on a good opening and not going behind. Liverpool in the first seasons under Klopp had a bad habit of routing teams, but then dropping points in games that were tight after 60/70 minutes. It knackers your team. When it works, it works tho. I do like it, but I fear in our league it may not be suitable for a lot of games. Not against it tho, I think we'd have some exciting games, but also some frustrating ones. Good enough to do the bottom 6 quite comfortably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 I think Tynecastle would become a fortress playing this style of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rory Mcilroy Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said: The difference is in the SPL they will just hoof a diagnol 70 yards and play for 2nd balls. In other leagues, many teams persist in playing it out, allowing for this to work. It can't work if they pass it to the keeper and launch it into orbit. It also relays on a good opening and not going behind. Liverpool in the first seasons under Klopp had a bad habit of routing teams, but then dropping points in games that were tight after 60/70 minutes. It knackers your team. When it works, it works tho. I do like it, but I fear in our league it may not be suitable for a lot of games. Not against it tho, I think we'd have some exciting games, but also some frustrating ones. You can find flaws in any system though. Ultimately if we start to see aggressive, attacking displays both home and away then it's going to be miles away from the single fish served up in the last few years. Teams would be back to knowing they were in for a horrid time at Tynie again. There may be some doubts about this guy but his playing style shouldn't be one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsimp77 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) It took Klopp over 2 years to get Liverpool to what they are now with mentality, style of play and transfers. Can’t see many waiting that long to see results. Edited November 21, 2019 by lsimp77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 as we can only affoard the quality we have, theres gonna be a lot of pist off supporters watching 10 bozanics, so many hate the 1 we have now, no matter how much effort he puts in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 1 minute ago, reaths17 said: as we can only affoard the quality we have, theres gonna be a lot of pist off supporters watching 10 bozanics, so many hate the 1 we have now, no matter how much effort he puts in. Sorry, could you please try and explain as you have lost me ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher75 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 With our team's fitness levels we'll be 4-0 up at half time and hanging on for a 4-4 draw by the end! Wighton never closes down anyone properly. MacLean tries to be fair. Uche will give it 100% and be knackered after 30 minutes. Meshino, Naismith, Clare, Mulraney and Morrison would give it a go and maybe Bozanic, Haring and Whelan. This would have suited Ryan Edwards. Maybe bring back Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Players diets will need to improve. No point pressing for 60mins then being on your arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Yawn, you are a bit like my, everyone surely should read his background this site is getting worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Its all about figures now FFS read a bit before posting such gash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Sir Gio said: Has backfired spectacularly this season for him and he started to make poor calls resultant. Rather than hire a philosophy I'd rather hire someone who is capable of dealing with stress. Levein couldn't and if I'm honest my fears are this guy wont either. Said on his thread last night it could easily be a bad fit. We have star players on long term contracts that don't fit this strategy. Coupled with awful performance this season, even accounting for some rough rewards from the boardroom, Hearts fans are not going to be sympathetic like Barnsley fans. He's been tore a new one several times this season, binning his most experienced players seems very odd when you plead lack of experience. Worrying for me I do agree. I couldn’t tell you the guys character or outright style but we do need a strong headed manager to drag this team forward again. We are at square one again imo. To go all philosophy , siding more with style and structure rather than having a good injection of motivation, ingraining a workrate and more physical demands to balance it , only keeps us where we are. Persisting with some players who can’t find or never have found consistency won’t help either. We need our core back fully fit and in time dispose of the weak. I still believe in what most football people believe in that what makes a good manager 90% of the time is the players he picks/buys/promotes. Lately though, you could say it’s actually been the strategy that’s killed us and brought us where we are just now, but also the players given the jersey to fill the void left by injuries haven’t been good enough either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Debut 4 said: I do agree. I couldn’t tell you the guys character or outright style but we do need a strong headed manager to drag this team forward again. We are at square one again imo. To go all philosophy , siding more with style and structure rather than having a good injection of motivation, ingraining a workrate and more physical demands to balance it , only keeps us where we are. Persisting with some players who can’t find or never have found consistency won’t help either. We need our core back fully fit and in time dispose of the weak. I still believe in what most football people believe in that what makes a good manager 90% of the time is the players he picks/buys/promotes. Lately though, you could say it’s actually been the strategy that’s killed us and brought us where we are just now, but also the players given the jersey to fill the void left by injuries haven’t been good enough either. Might seem strange, but I have never felt major changes were needed. Confidence, lost by playing not so safe, caused by the poor start, failing to compensate for Haring and Djoum led to the safe drivel. Getting the right replacement for Naismith. Impossible. It required a stronger mindset but Levein did not foster it. I don't think a radical change is required. Tweaks when Naismith is fit. Any new manager has to find a way of playing without him. I would say the priority is actually getting leadership through the team rather than another style of play for a bamboozled squad. Close season is the time for that in my mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 42 minutes ago, gnasher75 said: With our team's fitness levels we'll be 4-0 up at half time and hanging on for a 4-4 draw by the end! Wighton never closes down anyone properly. MacLean tries to be fair. Uche will give it 100% and be knackered after 30 minutes. Meshino, Naismith, Clare, Mulraney and Morrison would give it a go and maybe Bozanic, Haring and Whelan. This would have suited Ryan Edwards. Maybe bring back Lee. Lee couldn’t run during first half never mind second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 42 minutes ago, Jeff said: Players diets will need to improve. No point pressing for 60mins then being on your arse It’s not diet that needs to change its age of squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minturn Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 (edited) This is a good explanation around counterpressing https://www.martiperarnau.com/differences-between-sacchis-klopps-and-guardiolas-counterpressing-concepts/ I feel we need some different types of player in certain areas, but we have some that would be chuffed to work in this setup. Edited November 21, 2019 by Minturn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Mulraney Naisy Meshino Washington Maybe. Uche Naismith Walker MacLean Not a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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