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CJGJ

American flees UK to avoid prosecution..Disgrace

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Barack
15 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

At least this woman held herself accountable.

I believe she was given community hours to be served in France.

Bet that was tough.

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, Barack said:

Bet that was tough.

It just shows that she has a conscience. 

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Barack
Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

It just shows that she has a conscience. 

Oui.

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ri Alban
16 hours ago, Barack said:

Oui.

:isee:

 

:whistling:

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bn jambo

Anytime someone says Diplomatic immunity all i can think of is lethal weapon,

image.jpeg.d294fbd0829cf280dbed51a3ca3b699d.jpeg

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Smithee
1 hour ago, bn jambo said:

Anytime someone says Diplomatic immunity all i can think of is lethal weapon,

image.jpeg.d294fbd0829cf280dbed51a3ca3b699d.jpeg

 

Patsy Kensit's dids

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hueyview
3 hours ago, bn jambo said:

Anytime someone says Diplomatic immunity all i can think of is lethal weapon,

image.jpeg.d294fbd0829cf280dbed51a3ca3b699d.jpeg

Anytime i see him, i think of his dodgy charactor in the Pet shop Boys video...    :)

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milky_26
8 hours ago, bn jambo said:

Anytime someone says Diplomatic immunity all i can think of is lethal weapon,

image.jpeg.d294fbd0829cf280dbed51a3ca3b699d.jpeg

JUST BEEN REVOKED

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Maroon Sailor

Looks like Diplomatic Immunity is not relevant in Anne Sacoolas's case. She was never entitled to it anyway.

 

Good news for the Dunn family who are flying out to New York

 

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor

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Maroon Sailor

The Dunn family can sue her or the Northamptonshire police can press for her return and let the law deal with her.

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Mikey1874
7 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Looks like Diplomatic Immunity is not relevant in Anne Sacoolas's case. She was never entitled to it anyway.

 

Good news for the Dunn family who are flying out to New York

 

People the news people eg Sky News have got in to assess things saying it is not clear yet. 

 

She may still in practice have immunity and will not be forced to come back to face charges even if extradition application is made. 

Edited by Mikey1874

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hueyview

It seems her diplomatic immunity does not count for her now, as she's in the United States  and open to due process...

If convicted in the US, the consequence s would be far stricter...    Going by BBC news.

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Justin Z

I don't see how any American court would have jurisdiction to hear a criminal case, however.

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gjcc
17 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

I don't see how any American court would have jurisdiction to hear a criminal case, however.


Is it possible to go for a civil suit instead? Not ideal, but satisfying the negligence/wrongdoing element and getting a bumper payout. 

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Justin Z
2 minutes ago, gjcc said:


Is it possible to go for a civil suit instead? Not ideal, but satisfying the negligence/wrongdoing element and getting a bumper payout. 

 

Seems more possible because there wouldn't be as much of a constitutional due process issue in a civil suit.

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CJGJ

If she had used any common sense then she would have remained in the UK

 

She would have ended up with a limited sentance, little if any jail time and back 'home' to the good old US OF A

 

Much of the blame I'm sure lies with the American authorities who have badly misjudged the mood from the UK and indeed how their own citizens have viewed the 'running away' from a country that is supposed to have a close relationship with them

 

She has 'lost' her protected status and would be better just coming back to the UK and letting justice run it's course though whether that will be truly justice for the crime is open to interpretation

Lets not turn a blind eye though,  the American government aided her leaving the UK and they will now try to pretend they did not to try and save face

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hueyview
2 hours ago, CJGJ said:

If she had used any common sense then she would have remained in the UK

 

She would have ended up with a limited sentance, little if any jail time and back 'home' to the good old US OF A

 

Much of the blame I'm sure lies with the American authorities who have badly misjudged the mood from the UK and indeed how their own citizens have viewed the 'running away' from a country that is supposed to have a close relationship with them

 

She has 'lost' her protected status and would be better just coming back to the UK and letting justice run it's course though whether that will be truly justice for the crime is open to interpretation

Lets not turn a blind eye though,  the American government aided her leaving the UK and they will now try to pretend they did not to try and save face

Agree.......    Heard Trump on the News......    He just wants it to go away.

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Jambo-Jimbo

Heard Harry's parents give an interview yesterday and if what they said is true and they aren't mistaken, then it changes the whole dynamics of this case.

 

They said that Anne Sacoolas was facing a charge of causing death by dangerous driving and that they (the Dunn's) would have pleaded with the court not to give her a custodial sentence, which would be the norm for such a serious charge, I would have thought.

 

Now if that claim is true, then it would explain why someone wanted her out of the country asap, presumably so as to escape a potential serious criminal charge, but by doing so, wouldn't everybody who had anything to do with her return back to the US, potentially face a charge of trying to pervert the course of justice.

 

I think this case has a lot more twists and turns to go.

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hughesie27
32 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Heard Harry's parents give an interview yesterday and if what they said is true and they aren't mistaken, then it changes the whole dynamics of this case.

 

They said that Anne Sacoolas was facing a charge of causing death by dangerous driving and that they (the Dunn's) would have pleaded with the court not to give her a custodial sentence, which would be the norm for such a serious charge, I would have thought.

 

Now if that claim is true, then it would explain why someone wanted her out of the country asap, presumably so as to escape a potential serious criminal charge, but by doing so, wouldn't everybody who had anything to do with her return back to the US, potentially face a charge of trying to pervert the course of justice.

 

I think this case has a lot more twists and turns to go.

Except she wasn't facing any charge because she had diplomatic immunity. Also there was never any warrant out for her arrest. I believe she spoke with the police at the time of the accident.

 

Also eco helped her do what? She bought a ticket and flew home didn't she?

Edited by hughesie27

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jumpship
On 09/10/2019 at 20:08, Jambo-Jimbo said:

The parents met with the foreign secretary Dominic Raab today and left the meeting both angry and disappointed, seems they had convinced themselves that they were going to hear some very good positive news, but were angry that Raab basically pointed out the reality of the situation, namely that America never waives immunity and all the government can really do is to bring the case to their American counterparts attention and try an excert some pressure on them.

 

Whilst the parents have my every sympathy, I do think they need to be realistic here, because nobody can force Anne Sacoolas to get on a plane and return to the UK, diplomatic immunity or not, and even if a US court did order her to return, it's not going to happen within a week or two, as these things often take years to resolve, especially if she put in an appeal after appeal etc etc.

 

Basically the special relationship is nothing more that the UK being the bitch poodle that goes running when ever the US whistles... 

 

The UK truly is the bitch of the world... 

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Except she wasn't facing any charge because she had diplomatic immunity. Also there was never any warrant out for her arrest. I believe she spoke with the police at the time of the accident.

 

Also eco helped her do what? She bought a ticket and flew home didn't she?

 

I'm only reporting what the family said yesterday.

 

However from what has been reported and is widely known in the public domain, she did initially cooperate with the Police that much is true, diplomatic immunity was obviously mentioned at some point, Police applied for a waiver to her diplomatic immunity, so why would the Police apply for a waiver if she wasn't going to potentially face charges, that's the whole reason why you apply for a waiver so as the suspect can potentially face charges.  Of course there was no arrest warrant issued, as far as the Police knew she was still claiming diplomatic immunity, hence why as far as I know she hadn't been formally interviewed by the Police, whom needed the waiver so as to take the case forwards. 

Anne Sacoolas was asked by the Police at the time of the crash or shortly afterwards either not to or do you have any plans to leave the country, the answer was no, then a few weeks later Police receive notifcation that the waiver has been refused and then learn that the whole family is back in the States.

 

You ask who helped her leave the country, well her husband for starters, but speaking of which, very little has been said about the husband, which isn't a surprise giving that he's an intelligence officer, whom in all probability also left at the same time as his wife & kids back to the States, but no one can be sure of that, but lets say he is also back in the States, well he doesn't get to decide he just wants to get on a plane and leave the UK, he'd need permission to do that and his commanding officer would need a reason why to grant him & the whole family to leave the air base & the UK........................you see where this is going, there is a chain of command, it ain't as simple as buying a ticket and getting on a plane, especially a one way ticket with your kids.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
6 minutes ago, jumpship said:

Basically the special relationship is nothing more that the UK being the bitch poodle that goes running when ever the US whistles... 

 

The UK truly is the bitch of the world... 

 

What special relationship, that only works when the US want's the UK to join it in another illegal war.

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hughesie27
20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I'm only reporting what the family said yesterday.

 

However from what has been reported and is widely known in the public domain, she did initially cooperate with the Police that much is true, diplomatic immunity was obviously mentioned at some point, Police applied for a waiver to her diplomatic immunity, so why would the Police apply for a waiver if she wasn't going to potentially face charges, that's the whole reason why you apply for a waiver so as the suspect can potentially face charges.  Of course there was no arrest warrant issued, as far as the Police knew she was still claiming diplomatic immunity, hence why as far as I know she hadn't been formally interviewed by the Police, whom needed the waiver so as to take the case forwards. 

Anne Sacoolas was asked by the Police at the time of the crash or shortly afterwards either not to or do you have any plans to leave the country, the answer was no, then a few weeks later Police receive notifcation that the waiver has been refused and then learn that the whole family is back in the States.

 

You ask who helped her leave the country, well her husband for starters, but speaking of which, very little has been said about the husband, which isn't a surprise giving that he's an intelligence officer, whom in all probability also left at the same time as his wife & kids back to the States, but no one can be sure of that, but lets say he is also back in the States, well he doesn't get to decide he just wants to get on a plane and leave the UK, he'd need permission to do that and his commanding officer would need a reason why to grant him & the whole family to leave the air base & the UK........................you see where this is going, there is a chain of command, it ain't as simple as buying a ticket and getting on a plane, especially a one way ticket with your kids.

 

What you say is exactly how it probably panned out. However nothing in that scenario that they done was illegal. She may very well have had no plans to leave, but even if she did there would be nothing stopping her getting on a plane. The police can't just hold her hostage. All that will happen is that the US will do nothing, the family will be offered a payment to quieter them and we will move o to something else.

 

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The Real Maroonblood
20 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What you say is exactly how it probably panned out. However nothing in that scenario that they done was illegal. She may very well have had no plans to leave, but even if she did there would be nothing stopping her getting on a plane. The police can't just hold her hostage. All that will happen is that the US will do nothing, the family will be offered a payment to quieter them and we will move o to something else.

 

They’ll offer the family money and they’ll tell her to stick it where the sun don’t shine.

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Jambo-Jimbo
23 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

What you say is exactly how it probably panned out. However nothing in that scenario that they done was illegal. She may very well have had no plans to leave, but even if she did there would be nothing stopping her getting on a plane. The police can't just hold her hostage. All that will happen is that the US will do nothing, the family will be offered a payment to quieter them and we will move o to something else.

 

 

I didn't say Anne Sacoolas had done anything Illegal, what I said was if the family's claims are true that she was to be charged then that changes everything.

It's up to the UK Police now to decide whether or not to persue the case further and bring charges and apply for her extradition back to the UK.

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Jambo-Jimbo
21 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

They’ll offer the family money and they’ll tell her to stick it where the sun don’t shine.

 

I'm inclined to agree with you, in fact I think it would be an incredibly stupid move to offer the family 'hush' money so to speak, a move which I think would backfire on the person/s who offered it.

 

Different scenario entirely if the family were to persue a civil case in the States for damages, in that way they would probably get some closure because blame/guilt/liability would be proportioned against the defendant.

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo

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The Real Maroonblood
6 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I'm inclined to agree with you, in fact I think it would be an incredibly stupid move to offer the family 'hush' money so to speak, a move which I think would backfire on the person/s who offered it.

 

Different scenario entirely if the family were to persue a civil case in the States for damages, in that way they would probably get some closure because blame/guilt/liability would be proportioned against the defendant.

A civil case would be interesting.

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hughesie27
1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I didn't say Anne Sacoolas had done anything Illegal, what I said was if the family's claims are true that she was to be charged then that changes everything.

The US won't extradite a citizen.

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 minute ago, hughesie27 said:

The US won't extradite a citizen.

 

Indeed, yet the US expects everyone else to extradite people to the US whenever they snap their fingers.

 

This is why the family are considering legal action in the US.

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hughesie27
2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Indeed, yet the US expects everyone else to extradite people to the US whenever they snap their fingers.

 

This is why the family are considering legal action in the US.

Aye, my point t was that you said bringing charges forward would change everything. It would change pretty much nothing.

Crap state of affairs. Wonder how the US would react if in the near future a si.ar situation happened in the States with a UK diplomat.

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hughesie27
On 10/10/2019 at 08:24, hughesie27 said:

This is Donald Trump. He will throw a couple of million £ at the family in an envelope along with an NDA and we will never hear about it again. If you have money, you don't need to pay attention to silly laws.

Parents now invited to the White House.

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The Real Maroonblood
13 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Parents now invited to the White House.

Then told Sacoolas will not be returning to the UK.

What a surprise.

Everything is the USA way or nothing.

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Then told Sacoolas will not be returning to the UK.

What a surprise.

Everything is the USA way or nothing.

The only surprise is trump didn't use it as an excuse to rant about Ukraine, Democrats, the wall, etc,or tell everyone what a genius he thinks he is.

 

****ing waste of skin and oxygen, that he is.

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The Real Maroonblood
15 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The only surprise is trump didn't use it as an excuse to rant about Ukraine, Democrats, the wall, etc,or tell everyone what a genius he thinks he is.

 

****ing waste of skin and oxygen, that he is.

This.

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The only surprise is trump didn't use it as an excuse to rant about Ukraine, Democrats, the wall, etc,or tell everyone what a genius he thinks he is.

 

****ing waste of skin and oxygen, that he is.

 

Maybe if the parents had met with Sacoolas he'd have gotten the opportunity to have done so, because the Dunn's lawyer said that when Trump told them that Anne Sacoolas was in the next room, he noticed at least 3 photographers standing in the sidelines, he then realised that they had been ambushed (his words), seems it was all a set up, a photo opportunity (my words), allowing Trump to stand in the middle and proclaim that he's the greatest deal maker in history as he's brought these grieving parents together.

 

The man is completely warped.

 

At least the Dunn's now know for certain that Anne Sacoolas is not going to return to the UK, ever.

So, I think the Dunn's should now stop wasting their time & energy trying to get Sacoolas to return to the UK, as it ain't gonna happen.

I can't see what else the Dunn's can do right now, they have got confirmation from the President that Sacoolas isn't returning to the UK.

 

I think the next step should be to wait on the Police report being submitted to the CPS and see what course of action the CPS recommend, then take things from there.  Northamptonshire Police have said that the report will be with the CPS shortly.

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Peebo

Even by Trump’s own spectacularly low standard, that attempted stunt was breathtakingly horrendous. 

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Peebo
2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Maybe if the parents had met with Sacoolas he'd have gotten the opportunity to have done so, because the Dunn's lawyer said that when Trump told them that Anne Sacoolas was in the next room, he noticed at least 3 photographers standing in the sidelines, he then realised that they had been ambushed (his words), seems it was all a set up, a photo opportunity (my words), allowing Trump to stand in the middle and proclaim that he's the greatest deal maker in history as he's brought these grieving parents together.

 

The man is completely warped.

 

At least the Dunn's now know for certain that Anne Sacoolas is not going to return to the UK, ever.

So, I think the Dunn's should now stop wasting their time & energy trying to get Sacoolas to return to the UK, as it ain't gonna happen.

I can't see what else the Dunn's can do right now, they have got confirmation from the President that Sacoolas isn't returning to the UK.

 

I think the next step should be to wait on the Police report being submitted to the CPS and see what course of action the CPS recommend, then take things from there.  Northamptonshire Police have said that the report will be with the CPS shortly.

If I was the Dunns, I wouldn’t not “stop wasting [my] time” and would continue to do what I needed to do to raise awareness and fight for justice for my dead son. 
 

It’s still quite early in any criminal process...and may be nearing the home straight in the current US administration’s lifespan. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 minutes ago, Peebo said:

If I was the Dunns, I wouldn’t not “stop wasting [my] time” and would continue to do what I needed to do to raise awareness and fight for justice for my dead son. 
 

It’s still quite early in any criminal process...and may be nearing the home straight in the current US administration’s lifespan. 

 

That's not the way I meant it.

It's clear it's now a waste of time trying to persuade the US authorities to return Sacoolas to the UK, that's the waste of time and energy I was referring to.

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The Real Maroonblood

The Dunn’s family were quite correct IMO not to meet her.

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Peebo
44 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

That's not the way I meant it.

It's clear it's now a waste of time trying to persuade the US authorities to return Sacoolas to the UK, that's the waste of time and energy I was referring to.

I don’t think that’s clear at all. As I said, it’s still early days. Even in normal circumstances, the lifespan of the case could outlast the current decision-making administration. Under this extraordinary presidency, things can change in a minute. Trump changes his mind on a daily basis. 
 

The Dunns should try tweeting the Kardashians. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
4 minutes ago, Peebo said:

I don’t think that’s clear at all. As I said, it’s still early days. Even in normal circumstances, the lifespan of the case could outlast the current decision-making administration. Under this extraordinary presidency, things can change in a minute. Trump changes his mind on a daily basis. 
 

The Dunns should try tweeting the Kardashians. 

 

Or get on Hannity.

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SectionDJambo

We don’t know, for sure, if this woman left the UK by her choice, or if someone in authority told her to, in the hope that things would just go away. It was 3 weeks after the tragic event that she left, not the next day. It certainly shows the one sided attitude of the US administration and law authorities towards extradition between them and the UK. 

However, if this woman ever returned to the UK, for a holiday or passing through, for example, could she then be detained? I would think that she can never come back without the risk of being questioned further by UK police.

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theshed

I’ve not read this full thread but I’m surprised she left because if she had been charged ect I’d be surprised if anything happened to her anyway 

 

Only this week someone got off with a similar incident 

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Peebo
47 minutes ago, theshed said:

I’ve not read this full thread but I’m surprised she left because if she had been charged ect I’d be surprised if anything happened to her anyway 

 

Only this week someone got off with a similar incident 

The one in East Lothian? She didn’t “get off with it“. She didn’t get jailed, but did get convicted. 

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The Real Maroonblood
2 hours ago, Peebo said:

The one in East Lothian? She didn’t “get off with it“. She didn’t get jailed, but did get convicted. 

She got community hours to be carried out in France.

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CJGJ

Read this disgrace from our own government which raises so many questions ..the family have every right to be fuming

 

The government sat on an urgent response until the American had left the country then asked for a couple of days not informing the family to give them time to discuss the next actions..trying to save face by coming up with some fairy tale story is the truth of the matter and then the family are not informed until the 26th of the month..over a week later..this needs to be investigated..smacks of interference in the due process, deliberate non action and indeed lies to the family

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-50129077

 

The US Embassy told the British government the suspect in a crash which killed Harry Dunn would be leaving the UK, the foreign secretary has said.

Mr Dunn, 19, died after a collision outside RAF Croughton with a car owned by US citizen Anne Sacoolas.

Dominic Raab told the Commons his department asked for her diplomatic immunity to be waived, but the request was refused by the US.

Mr Dunn's family said the statement "added insult to injury".

Their spokesman Radd Seiger said there was an "unacceptable lack of information being provided to the family".

"There is even more anger and frustration tonight than there was before this statement was made in the House of Commons," he said.

Mr Raab said the US Embassy informed his office of the crash and said Mrs Sacoolas was "covered by immunity".

The Foreign Office requested to wave her immunity "to enable the police investigation to follow its proper course", he told MPs.

But Mr Raab said on 13 September his office was told by the US "that they would not not wave immunity and that the individual would be leaving the country imminently, unless the UK had strong objections".

He said his office "duly and immediately objected in clear and strong terms" but when they spoke to US officials on 16 September they were told the family had left the UK the day before.

The foreign secretary told the Commons his office "immediately informed Northamptonshire Police" but asked officers to delay telling Mr Dunn's family the suspect had left the country "by a day or two" to give them time to "agree the next course of action".

However, the police force did not tell Mr Dunn's family that Mrs Sacoolas had gone back to the US until 26 September, Mr Raab said.

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The Real Maroonblood
31 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Read this disgrace from our own government which raises so many questions ..the family have every right to be fuming

 

The government sat on an urgent response until the American had left the country then asked for a couple of days not informing the family to give them time to discuss the next actions..trying to save face by coming up with some fairy tale story is the truth of the matter and then the family are not informed until the 26th of the month..over a week later..this needs to be investigated..smacks of interference in the due process, deliberate non action and indeed lies to the family

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-50129077

 

The US Embassy told the British government the suspect in a crash which killed Harry Dunn would be leaving the UK, the foreign secretary has said.

Mr Dunn, 19, died after a collision outside RAF Croughton with a car owned by US citizen Anne Sacoolas.

Dominic Raab told the Commons his department asked for her diplomatic immunity to be waived, but the request was refused by the US.

Mr Dunn's family said the statement "added insult to injury".

Their spokesman Radd Seiger said there was an "unacceptable lack of information being provided to the family".

"There is even more anger and frustration tonight than there was before this statement was made in the House of Commons," he said.

Mr Raab said the US Embassy informed his office of the crash and said Mrs Sacoolas was "covered by immunity".

The Foreign Office requested to wave her immunity "to enable the police investigation to follow its proper course", he told MPs.

But Mr Raab said on 13 September his office was told by the US "that they would not not wave immunity and that the individual would be leaving the country imminently, unless the UK had strong objections".

He said his office "duly and immediately objected in clear and strong terms" but when they spoke to US officials on 16 September they were told the family had left the UK the day before.

The foreign secretary told the Commons his office "immediately informed Northamptonshire Police" but asked officers to delay telling Mr Dunn's family the suspect had left the country "by a day or two" to give them time to "agree the next course of action".

However, the police force did not tell Mr Dunn's family that Mrs Sacoolas had gone back to the US until 26 September, Mr Raab said.

An absolute disgrace.

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Victorian

Starting to look like the husband is a person of very high strategic importance to one or both countries.     Of the highest value to protect from public scrutiny.      She's ****ed up big style,   her or her husband or both don't give a shit about the moral responsibility to answer for her actions,   US wanted them out of the picture,   UK security services thought "**** aye... away you go pronto".     

Edited by Victorian

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