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CJGJ

American flees UK to avoid prosecution..Disgrace

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CJGJ

A disgrace that the government of the United States aided one of it's own citizens to leave the country despite promises made after a death

 

This is not a spy case, a case about hacking etc..this is a woman not even part of the US government but here with her husband who has  fled our country leaving a family wanting answers behind

 

Boris the buffoon will do nothing as his buddy can do him a favour re a trade deal should we leave and so the woman responsible will get away with what some would see as murder

 

She could not even have been jailed under current rules so to flee without answering questions beggars belief

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3fingersreid

Seen this on the news last night , absolutely shameful . 

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Justin Z

That is an absolute outrage. It may not have even been criminal, not sure, but there is 100% without a doubt civil liability and I don't believe diplomatic immunity of any kind extends to family members (though I may be mistaken on that).

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Smithee

Is there not meant to be a link or a quote or something so we all know what we're talking about?

I feel cheated!

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CJGJ
44 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

That is an absolute outrage. It may not have even been criminal, not sure, but there is 100% without a doubt civil liability and I don't believe diplomatic immunity of any kind extends to family members (though I may be mistaken on that).

It does sad to say

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542653/Woman-fled-Britain-teens-crash-death-wife-American-spy.html

 

An American woman who fled Britain after a teenage boy on a motorbike died in a collision with her car is married to a US spy, it was claimed last night.

She claimed diplomatic immunity and flew out of the country soon after the accident because the American authorities wanted to ensure her husband’s identity was not compromised.

Harry Dunn, 19, died after his Suzuki motorbike and the unnamed 42-year-old woman’s Volvo SUV collided on a road near RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire.

Police have revealed that the woman was driving on the wrong side of the road in the fatal crash, which took place on August 27 but was only reported last Friday.

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SwindonJambo

Poor chap was on a motorcycle and the American woman in a huge SUV on the wrong side of the road. No fault of his own whatsoever. Shocking injustice. With her husband being back in the US, surely loss of anonymity is no longer an issue. She should be nailed up for this.

 

You can bet your boots that if the situation was reversed and it happened in America it would be a very different matter.

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The Real Maroonblood
11 hours ago, CJGJ said:

It does sad to say

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542653/Woman-fled-Britain-teens-crash-death-wife-American-spy.html

 

An American woman who fled Britain after a teenage boy on a motorbike died in a collision with her car is married to a US spy, it was claimed last night.

She claimed diplomatic immunity and flew out of the country soon after the accident because the American authorities wanted to ensure her husband’s identity was not compromised.

Harry Dunn, 19, died after his Suzuki motorbike and the unnamed 42-year-old woman’s Volvo SUV collided on a road near RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire.

Police have revealed that the woman was driving on the wrong side of the road in the fatal crash, which took place on August 27 but was only reported last Friday.

So if she was wanted for murder the same bull shit would apply.

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Jambo-Jimbo
14 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

Poor chap was on a motorcycle and the American woman in a huge SUV on the wrong side of the road. No fault of his own whatsoever. Shocking injustice. With her husband being back in the US, surely loss of anonymity is no longer an issue. She should be nailed up for this.

 

You can bet your boots that if the situation was reversed and it happened in America it would be a very different matter.

 

Her name is Anne Sacoolas, a 42 year old mother of 3.

She is not at her registered address and her social media account/s have now been closed/deleted, she has literally dropped off the radar.

 

This is truly a shocking case, but what I don't understand is the American's reaction to this incident.

At worst she would probably have faced no more than having points on her licence, I can't see her going to jail, as she could claim that she got confused which side of the road she was on, it happens all the time, every year there are accidents just like this involving foreigners driving on the wrong side of the road.

She initially co-operarated with the Police and was asked if she had any plans to leave the country, which she told the Police that she didn't have, she was then told that the Police would be in touch once they had completed their enquiries.

 

Next thing anybody knows is that the family have been spirited back to the States and she is claiming Diplomatic Immunity.

 

Makes you wonder if there is something which the Americans don't want coming out if there was ever a court case,

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fancy a brew

According to Sky news, the known of extent of diplomatic immunity extends to embassy staff, their spouses and dependents. This woman's husband wasn't on the US embassy staff, but its emerged there was a previously unpublicised deal giving a wider range of US citizens diplomatic immunity, including this woman.

 

If she's been allowed to leave by mistake, or with a nod and a wink, then the shit is going to make a hell of a mess when it reaches the fan.

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Mikey1874

Pretty shit system

 

 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Pretty shit system

 

 

It’s unfortunately abused.

Anyway our cozy relationship with the USA all is good.

Ha! bloody Ha!

 

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CJGJ
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

According to Sky news, the known of extent of diplomatic immunity extends to embassy staff, their spouses and dependents. This woman's husband wasn't on the US embassy staff, but its emerged there was a previously unpublicised deal giving a wider range of US citizens diplomatic immunity, including this woman.

 

If she's been allowed to leave by mistake, or with a nod and a wink, then the shit is going to make a hell of a mess when it reaches the fan.

She has left with no nod or wink from the UK

 

She has left with a great deal of help from our American 'friends' who once more show America first and **** the rest of you,,still at least Boris has asked

 

The prime minister has urged the US to reconsider giving a diplomat's wife immunity after she left the UK despite being a suspect in a fatal crash.

Anne Sacoolas is wanted by police over the death of motorcyclist Harry Dunn, 19, in Northamptonshire on 27 August.

The US State Department said diplomatic immunity was "rarely waived".

Boris Johnson said the UK was speaking to the US ambassador and "if we can't resolve it then... I will be raising it myself with the White House".

UK Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab, who has already urged the US Embassy to reconsider, raised Mr Dunn's case in a conversation with US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo earlier.

A spokesman for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said Mr Raab "reiterated his disappointment with the US decision and urged them to reconsider".

Under the 1961 Vienna Convention, diplomats and their family members are immune from prosecution in their host country, as long as they are not nationals of that country. However, their immunity can be waived by the state that has sent them.

Edited by CJGJ

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Maroon Sailor
Posted (edited)

This case is absolutely despicable

 

It's outrageous she should be protected like this for killing a young lad through abysmal road knowledge and lack of attention whilst driving a vehicle.

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor

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Mikey1874

This has happened before in another RTA death. 

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo

Breaking News.

 

An international lawyer has said that the Foreign Office has told him that the husband of Anne Sacoolas does not have diplomatic immunity because he was never registered as an American diplomat.

 

There is still the bilateral agreement between the UK & US covering that particular RAF airbase, however if that is the case, then she could have much less protection than was previously thought.

 

There will be more to this story to follow.

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davemclaren
11 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Breaking News.

 

An international lawyer has said that the Foreign Office has told him that the husband of Anne Sacoolas does not have diplomatic immunity because he was never registered as an American diplomat.

 

There is still the bilateral agreement between the UK & US covering that particular RAF airbase, however if that is the case, then she could have much less protection than was previously thought.

 

There will be more to this story to follow.

The US is eager for other countries to extradite to them, less eager to extradite their own citizens. . 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

According to a lawyer on BBC, earlier, she doesn't have diplomatic immunity in the US. He was urging the government to cover her legal costs and sue her in the US (or Canada if she was to flee, again).

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davemclaren
5 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

According to a lawyer on BBC, earlier, she doesn't have diplomatic immunity in the US. He was urging the government to cover her legal costs and sue her in the US (or Canada if she was to flee, again).

If she doesn’t have diplomatic immunity then there will be an existing process to be followed should the police wish to bring charges. 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
21 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

If she doesn’t have diplomatic immunity then there will be an existing process to be followed should the police wish to bring charges. 

I think he meant she would have diplomatic immunity in the UK, the immunity doesn't cover her in North America.

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davemclaren
Just now, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I think he meant she would have diplomatic immunity in the UK, the immunity doesn't cover her in North America.

Ah, I see.  

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Justin Z
15 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

I think he meant she would have diplomatic immunity in the UK, the immunity doesn't cover her in North America.


Yes, that's my understanding--with the assumption it was properly established in the first place, which at least, there seems to be some controversy over.

 

But yeah, if it just mean the immunity expired retroactively once she went back to the States, that wouldn't make much sense from a functional point of view.

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davemclaren
54 minutes ago, Justin Z said:


Yes, that's my understanding--with the assumption it was properly established in the first place, which at least, there seems to be some controversy over.

 

But yeah, if it just mean the immunity expired retroactively once she went back to the States, that wouldn't make much sense from a functional point of view.

Are they thinking about a civil case in the US if immunity isn’t waived?

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Justin Z
25 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Are they thinking about a civil case in the US if immunity isn’t waived?

 

They might be. I'm fairly certain they would sue the diplomatic mission, whichever entity that falls under, rather than the woman herself, though.

 

Disclaimer, even as a once-qualified lawyer this is nothing but me riffing and I really haven't read much into this.

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Jambo-Jimbo

The parents met with the foreign secretary Dominic Raab today and left the meeting both angry and disappointed, seems they had convinced themselves that they were going to hear some very good positive news, but were angry that Raab basically pointed out the reality of the situation, namely that America never waives immunity and all the government can really do is to bring the case to their American counterparts attention and try an excert some pressure on them.

 

Whilst the parents have my every sympathy, I do think they need to be realistic here, because nobody can force Anne Sacoolas to get on a plane and return to the UK, diplomatic immunity or not, and even if a US court did order her to return, it's not going to happen within a week or two, as these things often take years to resolve, especially if she put in an appeal after appeal etc etc.

 

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fabienleclerq

What a joke this is, some more equal than others. 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

The parents met with the foreign secretary Dominic Raab today and left the meeting both angry and disappointed, seems they had convinced themselves that they were going to hear some very good positive news, but were angry that Raab basically pointed out the reality of the situation, namely that America never waives immunity and all the government can really do is to bring the case to their American counterparts attention and try an excert some pressure on them.

 

Whilst the parents have my every sympathy, I do think they need to be realistic here, because nobody can force Anne Sacoolas to get on a plane and return to the UK, diplomatic immunity or not, and even if a US court did order her to return, it's not going to happen within a week or two, as these things often take years to resolve, especially if she put in an appeal after appeal etc etc.

 

What a surprise.

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Mikey1874

Trump is saying they will speak to her. 

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davemclaren
3 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

What a joke this is, some more equal than others. 

Diplomatic immunity has existed for a long time and there have been many abuses. It probably needs reformed but it’s hard to see how diplomacy could exist without it. 

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fabienleclerq
17 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Diplomatic immunity has existed for a long time and there have been many abuses. It probably needs reformed but it’s hard to see how diplomacy could exist without it. 

 

It's being above the law and its ridiculous to think she could basically murder someone and run off home. 

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Mikey1874
5 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Diplomatic immunity has existed for a long time and there have been many abuses. It probably needs reformed but it’s hard to see how diplomacy could exist without it. 

 

Diplomacy can exist without people avoiding eg parking fines and being held accountable for killing people. 

 

Strange argument. 

Edited by Mikey1874

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Maroon Sailor
10 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Trump is saying they will speak to her. 

 

And tell her accidents happen, nothing to worry about, enjoy the rest of your life even though you have destroyed another family's life.

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

And tell her accidents happen, nothing to worry about, enjoy the rest of your life even though you have destroyed another family's life.

Sad but probably not far off the mark.

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hughesie27

This is Donald Trump. He will throw a couple of million £ at the family in an envelope along with an NDA and we will never hear about it again. If you have money, you don't need to pay attention to silly laws.

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davemclaren
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Diplomacy can exist without people avoiding eg parking fines and being held accountable for killing people. 

 

Strange argument. 

I don’t think so but it is an interesting argument. Less democratic regimes than ours ( 😎 ) could invent trumped up charges for political reasons. It’s meant to protect the ‘abuse’ of diplomats. 

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Barack
36 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Sad but probably not far off the mark.

Those are the opposite roads. That can happen,' Trump said. 'I won't say it ever happened to me, but it did."

 

🤔 No wonder they don't let him testify under oath.

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Mikey1874
3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I don’t think so but it is an interesting argument. Less democratic regimes than ours ( 😎 ) could invent trumped up charges for political reasons. It’s meant to protect the ‘abuse’ of diplomats. 

 

You saying the incident in Britain didn't happen? 

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davemclaren
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

You saying the incident in Britain didn't happen? 

Is that what you took from my post? 🤷🏼‍♂️

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Mikey1874
Just now, Barack said:

Those are the opposite roads. That can happen,' Trump said. 'I won't say it ever happened to me, but it did."

 

🤔 No wonder they don't let him testify under oath.

 

If he is suggesting Americans should be banned from driving in UK that isn't going to be a very good trade deal. 

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Mikey1874
Just now, davemclaren said:

Is that what you took from my post? 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

You said the system is in place because of abuse.

 

What abuse has taken place in this case? 

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davemclaren
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

You said the system is in place because of abuse.

 

What abuse has taken place in this case? 

I said the system is in place to prevent abuse of diplomats. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
36 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

And tell her accidents happen, nothing to worry about, enjoy the rest of your life even though you have destroyed another family's life.

 

In all likelihood that's probably the gist of it.

 

The reality of the situation is that she's not getting on a plane back to the UK anytime soon, if ever, and the quicker the family come to terms with that fact the better for their own wellbeing & mental health. 

 

 

 

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Herbert

Can we not do a Russian and just poison her? 

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Mikey1874
9 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

It's being above the law and its ridiculous to think she could basically murder someone and run off home. 

 

US not considering her returning

 

 

IMG_20191010_092058.jpg

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Ferris Bueller
2 hours ago, Herbert said:

Can we not do a Russian and just poison her? 

That's it though the russkies and the yanks piss on our door step and we cant do a thing about it. 

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Seymour M Hersh

I wonder why the UK would have done had the positions been reversed? As bad as this is I think "Diplomatic Immunity" has been abused far more disgustingly in the past.

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Mikey1874
12 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I wonder why the UK would have done had the positions been reversed? As bad as this is I think "Diplomatic Immunity" has been abused far more disgustingly in the past.

 

There was brief reference on tv earlier to a case where Britain waived the diplomatic immunity in a case of domestic violence in US. 

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Seymour M Hersh
6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

There was brief reference on tv earlier to a case where Britain waived the diplomatic immunity in a case of domestic violence in US. 

 

Good if it's correct we can take the moral high ground. Mind you for me, domestic abuse is worse than bad driving (in a foreign country) causing the tragic death of a young man. 

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Mikey1874
3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Good if it's correct we can take the moral high ground. Mind you for me, domestic abuse is worse than bad driving (in a foreign country) causing the tragic death of a young man. 

 

Yeah. Britain felt it should take a stand. I have a vague memory of that case.

 

The parents don't want the American woman to go to jail. They argue case should be downgraded from dangerous to careless driving and a suspended sentence saying as she is a mother. They just want her to be accountable and for them to get some justice. 

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davemclaren
25 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yeah. Britain felt it should take a stand. I have a vague memory of that case.

 

The parents don't want the American woman to go to jail. They argue case should be downgraded from dangerous to careless driving and a suspended sentence saying as she is a mother. They just want her to be accountable and for them to get some justice. 

Similar case. 
 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-49641733

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