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RS86

What would it take...

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Spoleto
4 minutes ago, Sagan said:

Spoleto, i don't like you. 

 

That's fine by me.

 

A word of advice. Don't start a thread pretending to seek open debate when you've already made up your mind to be a Levein hater and that is all that you that you had the intention of promoting.

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Sagan
2 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

That's fine by me.

 

A word of advice. Don't start a thread pretending to seek open debate when you've already made up your mind to be a Levein hater and that is all that you that you had the intention of promoting.

 

I've read your posts, i would never take advice from you, since you're obviously living on a different planet from me. 

All i want is open debate but when you're so far off reality i have to question it. 

 

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Spoleto
4 minutes ago, Sagan said:

 

I've read your posts, i would never take advice from you, since you're obviously living on a different planet from me. 

All i want is open debate but when you're so far off reality i have to question it. 

 

 

So by your own actions you are NOT open to debate, you just want to feed your own agenda. 

 

Grow up.

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Double Top

 

22 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

We didn't lie down in the Cup Final.

 

But for injuries to Naismith and Ikpeazu I think we would have finished top 4. 

 

But that's all if's, buts and maybes. 

 

Let's give him a chance THIS season to see what he can do. 

 

5 games in is no time to sack a manager. If it is then Steve Clarke will be looking for a new job soon.

 

Spot on Spoleto,  the Naismith factor is huge, too much reliance I agree but how many times have we lost with Naisy and Haring starting.....let alone Souttar, this time last year we were top with these guys fit

Tin hat on.....

 

 

 

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merseyjambo
36 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

I see the Levein haters say that there is NOTHING that Levein can do to save his job.

 

Which makes them Levein haters, not Hearts supporters. 

 

That's why Ann treats "real" fans like children.

 

Wind yer neck in fella.

 

A lot of people don’t hate CL, they just realise that he is not the man to take us forward. Hate is a word that really shouldn’t be used just because people don’t want him in charge. Very immature words from you.

 

Hes had 4 transfer windows and every single one has failed to bring in a winger, box to box midfielder or predatory striker. Players we have been crying out for but instead brings in 6 central midfielders.

 

We have stagnated over the last 2 years. We got to the Scottish Cup Final with the absolute dream draw. Auchinleck, Patrick and ICT were the lowest ranked team in the draw and we got them. Getting to the final with that sort of draw was the least we could expect.

 

If this form was just the start of this season, the calls to remove him wouldn’t maybe be justified. The fact this form has gone on for the best part of a year is concerning and the fact that we show no signs of getting out of this slump says that it’s time to go. 

 

I’ve been a Hearts supporter through worse than this and I’ve always backed the team. We’ve had managers no one really wanted before going back to the likes of Willie Ormond or Tony Ford in my time following the team. We’ve had guys like Rix and Korbochka. No one stopped supporting the team because these people were in charge. Fans continue to buy tickets and pay into FoH. Just because they don’t want CL in charge does not mean that they’re not supporters of the club. 

 

I think you’re just trolling.

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merseyjambo
20 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

That's fine by me.

 

A word of advice. Don't start a thread pretending to seek open debate when you've already made up your mind to be a Levein hater and that is all that you that you had the intention of promoting.

 

You want open debate yet anyone who says there is no way back for CL is instantly not a Hearts supporter. 

 

Hardly the way to start open debate 

 

I don’t have an axe to grind with CL, I just believe he should have walked after the Cathro debacle. The performances over the last 2 seasons have hardly been inspiring. His tactics are woeful. He sets a team up not to lose as opposed to going out to win. 

 

I’m open to debate and will see others point of view but just because I don’t want him in charge doesn’t mean to say that I won’t listen to any other viewpoints and I’ll argue my own case. 

 

Problem is that when you try to have reasoned debate with some people and point out obvious mistakes in their argument they don’t want to have a debate.

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Papa

There in no way that Levein will turn Hearts into an attacking, free flowing football team that is enjoyable to watch and wins 75%+ of games and an occasional trophy. To think otherwise goes against all evidence and defies logic.

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TheOak88
3 hours ago, bistokid said:

It's unrealistic because he's got us at the bottom of the table. To get himself into a position where he meets expectations he probably needs to win lots of games very quickly. 

It’s unrealistic because outside of the OF how many times do teams go on a 10 game winning streak? Not often I would guess. 

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deejtee

This "what if we" stuff is the basis of such as gambling addiction where people think things could soon turn big if only they keep going. It pains me to say that the turn around required just does not seem worth the gamble of continuing. Against that I spoke with an experienced player up here today who said Levein was by a long way the best manager he played for!

Sad times.

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dazinho88

If we were to start focusing a lot more on our attacking play, it would be a start. We are the 3rd best side in that league so I hate constantly reading about the defensive element from Levein as though we are one of the poorer sides, other teams should be looking at us and worrying about how they stop us. Yes, we need to cut out the errors at the back but I'm a firm believer that you defend from the front. 

 

Show that attacking intent against Hibs and Aberdeen, lay down a marker of how we want to get at teams with fast, aggressive play and I'll gladly afford him the rest of the season.

 

I don't like the nonsense he's starting to come out with in the media recently but I'll let it go if he gets it right on the pitch. I say all this believing he shouldn't still be at the club to have this chance but she's backed him now, let's hope she knows better. 

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Cruyff Turn
2 hours ago, farin said:

 

Doubt he’d be sacked for losing to hibs tbh, would be surprised if she’s not given him a timescale in private to prove he can turn this around though. 

Ann Budge was foolish to come out and back him publicly before a Derby, because if we lose to Hibs, his position is beyond untenable. If he has any class, and if that situation happens, he should tender his resignation.

 

No Hearts manager can lose, or to re-phrase, not win football matches and then when his job is on the line, lose to Hibs and still be the manager. That is a completely unacceptable scenario and Ann should know this. 

 

But look, if he wins and then beats Aberdeen, there’s a glimmer of hope, or at least evidence to say that it is possible things can turn around. I’m not holding my breath because I think at this stage he’d have to have us in the top 4 come December.

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farin
41 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Ann Budge was foolish to come out and back him publicly before a Derby, because if we lose to Hibs, his position is beyond untenable. If he has any class, and if that situation happens, he should tender his resignation.

 

No Hearts manager can lose, or to re-phrase, not win football matches and then when his job is on the line, lose to Hibs and still be the manager. That is a completely unacceptable scenario and Ann should know this. 

 

But look, if he wins and then beats Aberdeen, there’s a glimmer of hope, or at least evidence to say that it is possible things can turn around. I’m not holding my breath because I think at this stage he’d have to have us in the top 4 come December.

 

Hibs are so bad right now I can see even us beating them tbh. I can’t see us beating Aberdeen though & that cup exit could & should spell the end for him but he’s now got the public backing of budge so who knows what she’d do if push came to shove & we were out of the LC so soon. 

Edited by farin

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OTT

Its a results driven business. 

 

Start getting ****ing results. 

 

I'd also like a head. Perhaps one of the coaches, Daly/ Fox? I don't care. We need to make space. We need an experienced coach to assist in the day to day operations. Someone like Peter Houston who's worked with Levein for years would be ideal to help out as a number 2. Why he's not been brought in is utterly baffling. 

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Hearts1975

Not this time 

 

I just don’t have the confidence that even if he wins a few we will have any consistency moving forward. That includes good performances and results.

10 games in 3 years give or take the odd one here and there suggests that he won’t get better 

 

we could be so so much better under a progressive manager at the helm and one who will help us realise our potential as a club. Sorry to say, but I actually think CL is holding us back from realising that potential so for me, the sooner he leaves the better for HOMFC 

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Kiwidoug
1 hour ago, Hearts1975 said:

Not this time 

 

I just don’t have the confidence that even if he wins a few we will have any consistency moving forward. That includes good performances and results.

10 games in 3 years give or take the odd one here and there suggests that he won’t get better 

 

we could be so so much better under a progressive manager at the helm and one who will help us realise our potential as a club. Sorry to say, but I actually think CL is holding us back from realising that potential so for me, the sooner he leaves the better for HOMFC 

I fully agree with your last point - but - if he gets key players back, if we beat hibs and Aberdeen, if we start playing consistently and regularly winning, all will be forgiven.

 

Unfortunately  that's an awful lot of ifs and so far he's been nowhere near that level of success.

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Spoleto
9 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Wind yer neck in fella.

 

A lot of people don’t hate CL, they just realise that he is not the man to take us forward. Hate is a word that really shouldn’t be used just because people don’t want him in charge. Very immature words from you.

 

Hes had 4 transfer windows and every single one has failed to bring in a winger, box to box midfielder or predatory striker. Players we have been crying out for but instead brings in 6 central midfielders.

 

We have stagnated over the last 2 years. We got to the Scottish Cup Final with the absolute dream draw. Auchinleck, Patrick and ICT were the lowest ranked team in the draw and we got them. Getting to the final with that sort of draw was the least we could expect.

 

If this form was just the start of this season, the calls to remove him wouldn’t maybe be justified. The fact this form has gone on for the best part of a year is concerning and the fact that we show no signs of getting out of this slump says that it’s time to go. 

 

I’ve been a Hearts supporter through worse than this and I’ve always backed the team. We’ve had managers no one really wanted before going back to the likes of Willie Ormond or Tony Ford in my time following the team. We’ve had guys like Rix and Korbochka. No one stopped supporting the team because these people were in charge. Fans continue to buy tickets and pay into FoH. Just because they don’t want CL in charge does not mean that they’re not supporters of the club. 

 

I think you’re just trolling.

 

 

Take your own advice and wind your own neck in. 

 

Take 5 minutes to go over thee comments made about Levein and the hate speech that is prominent. Take that along with calls for stopping donations, to going to games, demonstrations at games etc. 

 

That's not being a Hearts supporter.

 

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rmreido
11 hours ago, Glottis said:

Winning the Derby and running into the centre circle with a hearts flag and planting it

"One small step, one giant leap for ......................................................................................................CRAIG LEVEIN 

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rmreido

Winning the derby, would be a start.

HHGH 

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Hearts1975
1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

I fully agree with your last point - but - if he gets key players back, if we beat hibs and Aberdeen, if we start playing consistently and regularly winning, all will be forgiven.

 

Unfortunately  that's an awful lot of ifs and so far he's been nowhere near that level of success.

Said that after the cup final if he could just send the team out to play that type of pressing game against every team moving forward we wouldn’t have an issue. Unfortunately since then that level of performance has been missing.

 

Its not just about results either. Results are hugely important but it’s the way the team plays and does it’s business on the pitch that in effect will either increase/decrease wins and losses.

 

You are correct in that if we win the next 2 games Craig won’t be going anywhere. AB will say in a matter of time her decision was vindicated. It’s the future and time after these events that will be the problem. No one can predict the future or what will happen but unless we stop the way we are set out to play now, and for evermore, and play a different style of football - a style that may not be Craig’s own personal belief, then I think this whole saga will just go on and on and on. A few wins then a defeat then everyone is up in arms again. Hence why I would like a fresh start with something new in place.

 

Sometimes things just reach a tipping point (like climate change) and even if things on the surface seem to get better in the short term you may have to take a longer term view in your own personal belief about what is best for the football club. I think a lot of folk are now doing that and it may be in some supporters eyes that this tipping point is here and now and to far gone to accept a period where we win games in the short term and then change their mind re Craig and him continuing in post. That’s where I am at now anyway. Unfortunately a few wins, and I can see AB telling herself that she was right in the first place and this could be a problem 

 

someone who self proclaims that she doesn’t understand football making key decisions about football in the clubs best interest. You couldn’t write about this in the sense and context of what is discussed (not vindicating her as a business owner as she has really got us on a sound footing business wise and I take my hat off to her for that)

 

Anyways, time will tell 

 

 

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Gordon Ramsay

Just start winning some ****ing games. 

 

Stop waffling shite in the press and stick a team on the park that actually looks like they have an idea of what they are meant to be doing. 

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Hearts1975
47 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

 

Take your own advice and wind your own neck in. 

 

Take 5 minutes to go over thee comments made about Levein and the hate speech that is prominent. Take that along with calls for stopping donations, to going to games, demonstrations at games etc. 

 

That's not being a Hearts supporter.

 

You don’t need to hate someone but you can think that same person is just not up to the job. Casing point. 

 

Its funny, I see more people that support Craig levein on the board reference the word levein hater against everyone who doesn’t support him moving forward and keeping his post. Go figure. Not saying there hasn’t been some distasteful remarks against him but most folk are just trying to represent what they are thinking. Certainly most of the posts that I have read.

 

not great to have folk tarring everyone who doesn’t want CL to continue as a “levein hater” or someone who attacks the club.

 

For me that’s someone who has ran out of ideas and cannot represent a reasoned defence of the man doing it deliberately, as they would have more chance of gaining support with the levein hater personal stuff 

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Spoleto
2 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

You don’t need to hate someone but you can think that same person is just not up to the job. Casing point. 

 

Its funny, I see more people that support Craig levein on the board reference the word levein hater against everyone who doesn’t support him moving forward and keeping his post. Go figure. Not saying there hasn’t been some distasteful remarks against him but most folk are just trying to represent what they are thinking. Certainly most of the posts that I have read.

 

not great to have folk tarring everyone who doesn’t want CL to continue as a “levein hater” or someone who attacks the club.

 

For me that’s someone who has ran out of ideas and cannot represent a reasoned defence of the man doing it deliberately, as they would have more chance of gaining support with the levein hater personal stuff 

 

Normally I might agree with you. 

 

However you can't debate with people who say that there's nothing Leven can do to turn things around. 

 

That attitude doesn't smack of being reasonable to me.

 

 

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Hearts1975
9 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Normally I might agree with you. 

 

However you can't debate with people who say that there's nothing Leven can do to turn things around. 

 

That attitude doesn't smack of being reasonable to me.

 

 

We are 3 years in. That’s probably long enough for folk to make an informed choice, and yes, I would agree, it would take a hell of a lot to convince any doubters 

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Hearts1975
Just now, Hearts1975 said:

We are 3 years in. That’s probably long enough for folk to make an informed choice, and yes, I would agree, it would take a hell of a lot to convince any doubters 

Sorry, hit send by accident 

 

doubters that he wasn’t up to the job. I suppose then in terms of what your saying that it comes down to whether you think out of every interested suitor for the hearts managers job, whether he is best suited for it or others could do better 

 

if the answer to that is no, then I understand why folk would want a change made as the football club would ultimately benefit 

 

even if he changed his coaches. Something. 1st team coaches Fox and Daly. Might as well be Laurel and Hardy with the benefit those 2 give to the club. I agree that CL may be “stretched” somewhat with his duties meaning his coaches have to take more responsibility. That would be even more reason to ship those 2 out as it is obvious when you look at how the team sets up they are struggling with fluency completely 

 

we have John rankin and Andy Kirk, and from what I am hearing, they are extremely well thought of, yet are not directly coaching the 1st team. Something has to change 

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tcjambo
13 hours ago, Spoleto said:

 

So by your own actions you are NOT open to debate, you just want to feed your own agenda. 

 

Grow up.

:bravo:

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tcjambo

Actually this is one of the most sensible questions I have seen on here.

 

CL is very close to being shown the door IMO. I would be desperately unhappy to see such a great player and someone who previously managed the club with distinction end his career in that fashion. However the good of the club and thereby the team is the priority. Even if ths does turn around I think he should step down at the end of the season.

 

For him to turn it around in the eyes of the fans he needs IMO to:

- Win against Hibs and Aberdeen

- Have us in the top 6 by Xmas

- Ensure we get a European slot by the end of the season

- Solve the mystery of the injuries our players keep getting as this is a major frustration for the fans

- Have a luck transplant

 

I think the vast majority of fans don't hate Levein - JKB is not representative. Most fans with a modicum of decency are sad and very concerned rather than angry and abusive. Those that fall into the latter category are a motley group of life's incompetents who rail at literally everything that goes on around them or Hibs fans - most probably both.

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Spoleto
14 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Sorry, hit send by accident 

 

doubters that he wasn’t up to the job. I suppose then in terms of what your saying that it comes down to whether you think out of every interested suitor for the hearts managers job, whether he is best suited for it or others could do better 

 

if the answer to that is no, then I understand why folk would want a change made as the football club would ultimately benefit 

 

even if he changed his coaches. Something. 1st team coaches Fox and Daly. Might as well be Laurel and Hardy with the benefit those 2 give to the club. I agree that CL may be “stretched” somewhat with his duties meaning his coaches have to take more responsibility. That would be even more reason to ship those 2 out as it is obvious when you look at how the team sets up they are struggling with fluency completely 

 

we have John rankin and Andy Kirk, and from what I am hearing, they are extremely well thought of, yet are not directly coaching the 1st team. Something has to change 

 

I've not seen any names mentioned that IMO would excite me and want me to replace Levein with them. Certainly not the likes of Stephen Robinson, surely Hearts deserve better than that? You may be right about the coaches, I don't know myself. 

 

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Hearts1975
22 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

I've not seen any names mentioned that IMO would excite me and want me to replace Levein with them. Certainly not the likes of Stephen Robinson, surely Hearts deserve better than that? You may be right about the coaches, I don't know myself. 

 

It would be fool hardy just picking a name. Agreed. Depending on the DOF project we should cast the net far and wide and see who would be available.

 

I think there would be some names in there that would be very appealing for us. 

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jack D and coke
20 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

For me winning games by trying to beat teams rather than trying not to lose to them. Essentially a total change of heart and outlook.

it ain’t gonna happen IMO

This is what Id like to see too. 
Stop this gutless and aimless football away from home, the every player back at corners and free kicks and start trying to win with a bit style. I’m not expecting us to start turning up at ibrox and parkhead and controlling the game and throwing caution to the wind but we still lose 5-0 playing that cowardly tactics.
He literally hasn’t a clue how to play through there despite spending nearly his entire career in this league it’s not good enough. 

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Blacky87
19 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:


your not in the minority I don’t think.. I’d love nothing more.. I just don’t think it will, we’ve not seen any evidence that it will happen.. at some point.. it’s over

 

Yeah that's the realisation I had. There's nothing to show over the last year that we can come good. Definitely time IMO

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merseyjambo
4 hours ago, Spoleto said:

 

 

Take your own advice and wind your own neck in. 

 

Take 5 minutes to go over thee comments made about Levein and the hate speech that is prominent. Take that along with calls for stopping donations, to going to games, demonstrations at games etc. 

 

That's not being a Hearts supporter.

 

 

I think you need to take a break

 

People have given CL a chance it’s not working. The last 11 months have been garbage. The season has started the same way the last one ended. At any other club, he’d be gone by now there is no doubt about that. The club should have acted but haven’t so the fans are trying to make the club understand their dissatisfaction. How else are they supposed to do it.

 

I think you really need to look at what hate speech actually is

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rudi must stay
21 hours ago, RS86 said:

Thought this could be interesting. Because the tide seems to have turned and nearly everyone I talk to or who posts on here wants Levein gone but Ann's recent statement seems to suggest he's to be given more time yet: What would it take for you to get back on board with him being our head coach?

 

For me beating Hibs and Aberdeen would go some way towards that but this opinion shift has been a long time coming, so I'd say unless we finished the season with a minimum of European football and a decent cup run I'd still expect him gone for next year.

 

For me teams that make sense every week (there's too much rotation), happy players and a team that goes for it abit more. Not much because I do think we have good squad and I don't actually mind Levein at times. There are times I think hes onto something but from the outside he appears to not be thinking through his decisions 

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