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Dunks

At least 30 shot by 2 gunmen in Texas. Still ongoing ...

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peter_hmfc

It's well and truly kicked off!

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Smack

Oh ffs

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Peebo

****ing hell.  In Midland/Odessa, I see. A place absolutely booming on oil money.

 

Also, ten shot at a high school football game in Mobile last night. Not sure that one even cause a ripple on the news wires. 

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Dunks

Shooter killed in a post van. 

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Dunks

Police believe it was a single shooter now.

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I P Knightley
8 minutes ago, Dunks said:

Police believe it was a single shooter now.

For Mobile AND Texas???

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Cruyff Turn

It’ll be shocked if it isn’t a white suprematist radge. 

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peter_hmfc

Five dead, 20+ injured.

 

The US' 17th mass-murder with guns of the year.

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Dunks
18 minutes ago, Dunks said:

Police believe it was a single shooter now.

 

White Male, mid thirties.

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Dunks
8 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

For Mobile AND Texas???

 

Don't think they are connected IP.

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Swanny17

Thoughts and prayers.

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EH11_2NL

I was in a bar last night and was speaking to an American on holiday here doing some diving. An intelligent, lucid, working class guy in his 50's who has obviously worked hard and done well for himself. The conversation turned to gun ownership and specifically the amount of mass shootings that happen in the US. I gave the UK perspective in that we can't get our head round it and we genuinely feel for them when this happens. I told him about Dunblane and Hungerford. Events which changed gun law in the UK. I asked will there ever be a tipping point when US citizens say enough is enough. His answer was to quote the 2nd Amendment. I tried my best to counter that with the fact that it was almost 300 years old and times change.

 

He then hit me with the REAL reason for gun ownership. He (and the rest of the gun nutters) GENUINELY believes that at some point the poor, disadvantaged, welfare scroungers (his words) will form together from the inner cities,  rise up and invade the suburbs and kill all the middle classes and steal all that he has worked for so they need guns to protect themselves. And that one day a tyrannical US gov will do the same! He told me a horror story that while he is on holiday here in Cayman, he is carrying a knife to protect himself from dodgy looking Philipinos! Cayman is by far the safest island in the Caribbean. Attacks on tourists just don't happen. It's the first time I've had a conversation like that with an American. The bottom line is that there will NEVER be significant change to US gun laws while intelligent(!) guys like him possess that mind set. I honestly feel sorry for them. RIP those that have lost their lives today.

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3fingersreid

Couple of months ago I had a couple of Americans, husband and wife , in the cab . Chatting away asked them how they enjoyed visiting Scotland and the rest of the British isles. She replied she loved it , saying the food and drink was way above the quality she expected. I expected similar from her husband but he said he wouldn’t be back as he didn’t feel safe.

I  asked why that was and his answer was he didn’t feel safe as our police officers weren’t armed and that they ( the police) should always have bigger and better weaponry than the “ bad guys” . His exact words , bad guys, like it was some Hollywood B movie line .

 

I don't think that even 1000 people being murdered by a shooter or shooters would change the views on the 2nd amendment of that countries population tbh.

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Peebo
49 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

Couple of months ago I had a couple of Americans, husband and wife , in the cab . Chatting away asked them how they enjoyed visiting Scotland and the rest of the British isles. She replied she loved it , saying the food and drink was way above the quality she expected. I expected similar from her husband but he said he wouldn’t be back as he didn’t feel safe.

I  asked why that was and his answer was he didn’t feel safe as our police officers weren’t armed and that they ( the police) should always have bigger and better weaponry than the “ bad guys” . His exact words , bad guys, like it was some Hollywood B movie line .

 

I don't think that even 1000 people being murdered by a shooter or shooters would change the views on the 2nd amendment of that countries population tbh.

And yet my American wife (Texan, ex-military, and traditionally Republican, no less) feels safer here precisely because basically no one (including the majority of police) is walking the street visibly strapped. Not every American feels the same about guns rights. Unfortunately, no one has the political will to really test, never mind challenge, current sentiment around the status quo.

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OTT
8 hours ago, EH11_2NL said:

I was in a bar last night and was speaking to an American on holiday here doing some diving. An intelligent, lucid, working class guy in his 50's who has obviously worked hard and done well for himself. The conversation turned to gun ownership and specifically the amount of mass shootings that happen in the US. I gave the UK perspective in that we can't get our head round it and we genuinely feel for them when this happens. I told him about Dunblane and Hungerford. Events which changed gun law in the UK. I asked will there ever be a tipping point when US citizens say enough is enough. His answer was to quote the 2nd Amendment. I tried my best to counter that with the fact that it was almost 300 years old and times change.

 

He then hit me with the REAL reason for gun ownership. He (and the rest of the gun nutters) GENUINELY believes that at some point the poor, disadvantaged, welfare scroungers (his words) will form together from the inner cities,  rise up and invade the suburbs and kill all the middle classes and steal all that he has worked for so they need guns to protect themselves. And that one day a tyrannical US gov will do the same! He told me a horror story that while he is on holiday here in Cayman, he is carrying a knife to protect himself from dodgy looking Philipinos! Cayman is by far the safest island in the Caribbean. Attacks on tourists just don't happen. It's the first time I've had a conversation like that with an American. The bottom line is that there will NEVER be significant change to US gun laws while intelligent(!) guys like him possess that mind set. I honestly feel sorry for them. RIP those that have lost their lives today.

 

Its truly amazing how paranoid they are in their justification for gun ownership. 

 

I can't expend anymore energy feeling bad for them. They are stupid, insane and unbelievably arrogant. I do not accept that these mass shootings are an opportunity cost of 'protecting yourself from a tyrannical government', that excuse is literally the most stupid nonsensical idiocy I have ever had the misfortune of hearing. 

 

They know what they need to do if they want the mass shootings to stop, but they're too busy circle jerking over their flag, telling themselves they live in the 'best country in the world' and comforting themselves with 'thoughts and prayers' and the american dream delusion while their kids, brothers, sisters, neighbours, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins are murdered in a completely preventable fashion. 

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Jeff

Over the last few years I've grown to utterly despise America. 

 

How can people still defend the right to bear arms. It's absolutely ludicrous but the country is far too stubborn to admit defeat. 

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3fingersreid
24 minutes ago, Peebo said:

And yet my American wife (Texan, ex-military, and traditionally Republican, no less) feels safer here precisely because basically no one (including the majority of police) is walking the street visibly strapped. Not every American feels the same about guns rights. Unfortunately, no one has the political will to really test, never mind challenge, current sentiment around the status quo.

Tbf it was the first time I’ve ever heard that given as a reason for not coming back, the weather yes but never feeling unsafe  . I think some politicians might raise the issue but a you say the will to change isn’t there . 

I have no real problem with a householder having a small handgun being owned under their constitution,  but it wasn’t written when assault rifles were around . 

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Mac_fae_Gillie
9 hours ago, EH11_2NL said:

I was in a bar last night and was speaking to an American on holiday here doing some diving. An intelligent, lucid, working class guy in his 50's who has obviously worked hard and done well for himself. The conversation turned to gun ownership and specifically the amount of mass shootings that happen in the US. I gave the UK perspective in that we can't get our head round it and we genuinely feel for them when this happens. I told him about Dunblane and Hungerford. Events which changed gun law in the UK. I asked will there ever be a tipping point when US citizens say enough is enough. His answer was to quote the 2nd Amendment. I tried my best to counter that with the fact that it was almost 300 years old and times change.

 

He then hit me with the REAL reason for gun ownership. He (and the rest of the gun nutters) GENUINELY believes that at some point the poor, disadvantaged, welfare scroungers (his words) will form together from the inner cities,  rise up and invade the suburbs and kill all the middle classes and steal all that he has worked for so they need guns to protect themselves. And that one day a tyrannical US gov will do the same! He told me a horror story that while he is on holiday here in Cayman, he is carrying a knife to protect himself from dodgy looking Philipinos! Cayman is by far the safest island in the Caribbean. Attacks on tourists just don't happen. It's the first time I've had a conversation like that with an American. The bottom line is that there will NEVER be significant change to US gun laws while intelligent(!) guys like him possess that mind set. I honestly feel sorry for them. RIP those that have lost their lives today.

USA is still a hugely divided nation by race/colour and money... I can understand the average middleclass(that's yank for working class) having a handgun in a locked box just in case all hell breaks out, even get that same carry in a car just in case,I can understand the hunters with their rifles that go out killing deer owning guns but owning 20 semis is batcrap crazy and by default of wanting 1 you should be banned from buying any weapons. Still remember the Rodney King Riots of 91 with whites been dragged from cars/trucks and murdered or beat in the street. Great nation America thinks it is but it is sop far behind on social issues that I do get many feel unsafe.

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Cade

"Why do you need an assault rifle?"

"To protect myself against people with assault rifles"

 

That's the entire argument, right there.

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peter_hmfc
1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Its truly amazing how paranoid they are in their justification for gun ownership. 

 

I can't expend anymore energy feeling bad for them. They are stupid, insane and unbelievably arrogant. I do not accept that these mass shootings are an opportunity cost of 'protecting yourself from a tyrannical government', that excuse is literally the most stupid nonsensical idiocy I have ever had the misfortune of hearing. 

 

They know what they need to do if they want the mass shootings to stop, but they're too busy circle jerking over their flag, telling themselves they live in the 'best country in the world' and comforting themselves with 'thoughts and prayers' and the american dream delusion while their kids, brothers, sisters, neighbours, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins are murdered in a completely preventable fashion. 

 

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Over the last few years I've grown to utterly despise America. 

 

How can people still defend the right to bear arms. It's absolutely ludicrous but the country is far too stubborn to admit defeat. 

 

Both :spoton: .

 

Earlier in the day Americans were lauding and parading a two-man mass-stabbing attack in France they believed to be a terrorist incident, 1 dead 9 injured.

 

The full repertoire was out: "That's what you get for mass-immigration", "Europe has fallen", "If they had guns they could have defended themselves but oh well", "How's that knife ban working out for you?". I have absolutely no sympathy for them anymore. They reap what they sow.

 

The 18th mass-murder with guns this year, one every 13 days on average.

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Peebo
36 minutes ago, Cade said:

"Why do you need an assault rifle?"

"To protect myself against people with assault rifles"

 

That's the entire argument, right there.

Pretty much. And depending on the perspective, it does follow some reasonably sound logic! But that could be said for a lot of things we don’t accept as they are bad for society overall. 

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Jamboelite

Its where they cant see the middle ground that i have an issue with.

 

You can keep the 2nd amendment and the right to have a weapon but put checks in place to control the use of them, remove the assault rifles and make sure there are suitable background checks.

 

And see this open carry in certain states, that is bat shit mental and cowboy wild west stuff.

 

As a western “super power” i think you can see it starting to disintegrate in terms of society divide and civil unrest and its not been helped by the current president.

Edited by Jamboelite

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RobboM

I've posted a link to this podcast before but it bears repeating here. Like everyone else I am utterly mistified by the US approach to guns. This podcast explains just how the US ended up in the current intractable position. 

Summary
For nearly 200 years of our nation’s history, the Second Amendment was an all-but-forgotten rule about the importance of militias. But in the 1960s and 70s, a movement emerged — led by Black Panthers and a recently-repositioned NRA — that insisted owning a firearm was the right of each and every American. So began a constitutional debate that only the Supreme Court could solve. That didn’t happen until 2008, when a Washington, D.C. security guard named Dick Heller made a compelling case.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/radiolab-presents-more-perfect-gun-show

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Maple Leaf

I have family in the States and visit there frequently.

 

Politicians in the USA can talk about gun controls until they're blue in the face, but nothing meaningful will ever happen, because the majority of people don't want there to be restrictions on gun ownership.  There is a culture of fear in the country, which leads to people believing that they NEED guns to protect themselves and their families.

 

Easy access to automatic weapons is a result of that, and mass shootings inevitably follow.  They're here to stay in the US.

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Captain Sausage

Turned down a move to Houston because I don’t want my son anywhere near that pish. 

 

I’ve lived in Texas for 5 years and I will not return to America (excluding visiting pals in NYC). 

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Peebo
2 minutes ago, Captain Sausage said:

Turned down a move to Houston because I don’t want my son anywhere near that pish. 

 

I’ve lived in Texas for 5 years and I will not return to America (excluding visiting pals in NYC). 

One of the main reasons I left Houston!

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Peebo
3 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

Its where they cant see the middle ground that i have an issue with.

 

You can keep the 2nd amendment and the right to have a weapon but put checks in place to control the use of them, remove the assault rifles and make sure there are suitable background checks.

This isn’t really true. Plenty of “middle ground” solutions have been proposed. In fact, not sure any politicians seriously suggest a complete ban (as it’s clearly unworkable). 

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ri Alban

Someone should explain the the difference between amendments and commandments.

 

 

Dave Chappelle has the solution to the US and it's love of guns.

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Justin Z

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Maple Leaf
3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

image.png.b42d7f9efb5b867ed6384a6981b72422.png

 

Now that the gunman has been identified at a white man, this tragedy is clearly a mental health issue. We can all move along now.

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Auld Reekin'
2 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Now that the gunman has been identified at a white men, this tragedy is clearly a mental health issue. We can all move along now.

 

Or, as Trumpet has described previous shootings: "pure evil...". This, of course, gives the clear impression that such things are out of the remit of mere humans and governments, and that nothing can be done about them (other than praying, presumably).

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bobsharp

In the last few shootings police attendance has been prompt and although tragic loss of life it could have been worse without that response. I just wonder and although not religious pray it never does, but, if an individual  was to do one of those attacks in Edinburgh first reponding police would be unarmed, how fast could the properly armed police get there in these days. I always tell the story in my day when we were going to look for an armed suspect I asked about us being armed, the response was that it had been authorised but no one knew where the key for the armory was kept. I am sure it is far improved now, but attendance time is something always considered for responses in emergency situation planning.

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, Auld Reekin' said:

 

Or, as Trumpet has described previous shootings: "pure evil...". This, of course, gives the clear impression that such things are out of the remit of mere humans and governments, and that nothing can be done about them (other than praying, presumably).

 

This guy gets it.

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Jamboelite
5 hours ago, Peebo said:

This isn’t really true. Plenty of “middle ground” solutions have been proposed. In fact, not sure any politicians seriously suggest a complete ban (as it’s clearly unworkable). 

I dont mean politicians i meant the peoples view seem to be stuck on there being no middle ground.

Edited by Jamboelite

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Jamboelite
2 hours ago, bobsharp said:

In the last few shootings police attendance has been prompt and although tragic loss of life it could have been worse without that response. I just wonder and although not religious pray it never does, but, if an individual  was to do one of those attacks in Edinburgh first reponding police would be unarmed, how fast could the properly armed police get there in these days. I always tell the story in my day when we were going to look for an armed suspect I asked about us being armed, the response was that it had been authorised but no one knew where the key for the armory was kept. I am sure it is far improved now, but attendance time is something always considered for responses in emergency situation planning.

Its a fair point as there are only a set amount of armed officers across Scotland and so response time maybe substantial.

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Peebo
22 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

I dont mean politicians i meant the peoples view seem to be stuck on there being no middle ground.

I don’t think that’s the case either. Doubt think there are many Americans who think the solution (if they indeed see a problem) would be a complete ban. 

 

For outsiders looking in, the situation understandably seems bonkers, and it maybe seems more black and white. The reality is much more complex. 

 

 

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Cade

Australia had a similar view to guns as the USA has.

After a plague of spree shootings in the late 80's and early 90's, there was the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996 which killed 35 people.

Gun controls were tightened severely.

There have been hardly any mass shootings since.

 

 

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Peebo
3 minutes ago, Cade said:

Australia had a similar view to guns as the USA has.

After a plague of spree shootings in the late 80's and early 90's, there was the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996 which killed 35 people.

Gun controls were tightened severely.

There have been hardly any mass shootings since.

 

 

Yes, and that’s been great for Australia in terms of reducing these horrible incidents, which had an estimated 3 million weapons in circulation at the time of the crackdown (and now apparently more, in total).

 

There are an estimated 400 million guns in circulation in the US. 

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ri Alban
1 hour ago, Peebo said:

Yes, and that’s been great for Australia in terms of reducing these horrible incidents, which had an estimated 3 million weapons in circulation at the time of the crackdown (and now apparently more, in total).

 

There are an estimated 400 million guns in circulation in the US. 

Which only a low percentage of citizens own. Easy enough.

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bobsharp

With the brains, resources available in the Senate and Congress, you would think reasonable persons could come up with a solution to the gun problem. Certainly implementation, human resources and budget would have to be considered, but considering that the men and women who would be responsible for this massive change swore that they would do their best to protect the safety and rights of the people who elected them. Instead we have a group of politicians who are ignoring their oath of office to protect a man who violates every tenet of his. In opposition are a group who are no better because they are more concerned about getting reelected and do not want to anger any of their support. Meanwhile the people they have all promised to protect are dying in the streets victims of firearms that should never in any civilised country be permitted to be owned by private citizens.

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peter_hmfc

No longer the most recent mass-murder with guns in the USA.

 

A 14 year old in Elkmont (Alabama) shot dead 5 family members. The victims were the 14-year-old’s father 38-year-old John Sisk, his stepmother 35-year-old Mary Sisk , 6-year-old brother, 5-year-old sister and his 6-month-old brother. The population of Elkmont (AL) was 473 in the year 2017, that means a 14 year old just killed more than 1% of the towns entire population.

 

The 19th mass-murder with guns in the USA this year, an average of one every 12.9 days.

 

https://www.waff.com/2019/09/03/year-old-confesses-killing-five-family-members-limestone-county/

Edited by peter_hmfc

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Gizmo

14. :(

When does the line ever get drawn? I suppose never, not when the NRA are rabid corporate protectionists and own most of the politicians who oppose any moderate introduction of some background checks and gun controls, whilst they push their message through a press that peddles the lines and agendas of some wrinkled old billionaire ***** and makes every single issue a slogan and a polarised for/against. A populace where so many are so poorly educated and stupified that all it takes to make them swallow propaganda from Fox "news"* is for it to be delivered by some moderately attractive blonde females or some shouty, pompous rich *****. Where the right-wingers think nothing of going after a student who survived a terrifying gun attack where his schoolmates died, who think nothing of going after an autistic climate change high school student ffs. 

*Don't know if it's true that it has to carry an "for entertainment" disclaimer but it wouldn't surprise me... 

What an absolute basket case of a country.

If they do self-destruct and get the civil war that most of the militia aping gun-nuts secretly want, I hope they don't take half the globe down with them. 

 

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peter_hmfc
37 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

14. :(

When does the line ever get drawn? I suppose never, not when the NRA are rabid corporate protectionists and own most of the politicians who oppose any moderate introduction of some background checks and gun controls, whilst they push their message through a press that peddles the lines and agendas of some wrinkled old billionaire ***** and makes every single issue a slogan and a polarised for/against. A populace where so many are so poorly educated and stupified that all it takes to make them swallow propaganda from Fox "news"* is for it to be delivered by some moderately attractive blonde females or some shouty, pompous rich *****. Where the right-wingers think nothing of going after a student who survived a terrifying gun attack where his schoolmates died, who think nothing of going after an autistic climate change high school student ffs. 

*Don't know if it's true that it has to carry an "for entertainment" disclaimer but it wouldn't surprise me... 

What an absolute basket case of a country.

If they do self-destruct and get the civil war that most of the militia aping gun-nuts secretly want, I hope they don't take half the globe down with them. 

 

Absolutely no way that any other country in the world should offer even a crumb of support either way towards any civil war. They've dug themselves into this, they can shoot their way out.

 

Americans have revelled in European terrorist attacks, insisting it proves their pro-gun stance right. They were even exploiting the Kyoto fire and a recent Chinese stabbing to help their agenda.

Edited by peter_hmfc

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Peebo

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highlandjambo3
On 01/09/2019 at 10:03, 3fingersreid said:

Tbf it was the first time I’ve ever heard that given as a reason for not coming back, the weather yes but never feeling unsafe  . I think some politicians might raise the issue but a you say the will to change isn’t there . 

I have no real problem with a householder having a small handgun being owned under their constitution,  but it wasn’t written when assault rifles were around . 

I remember not so long back at one of their mass shootings a couple or so years ago......Texas I think it was and, the pro gun lobby was on about the second amendment....... “I’ve got two guns Incase my neighbor  has one....oh wait!! he might have two as well so I’ve got 3 guns and they are bigger than his...oh wait!! He might have big guns so......etc....etc....”.  Anyway, some pizza chain were offering free pizzas to mums who openly showed they were carrying  guns, the tv clip showed mums sitting about with pistols openly strapped to their sides and kids running around in a pizza place, shit you not, I was gobsmacked.

 

Not itk but, I’d assume that different states have different controls for showing guns, a bit like their death penalty. 

 

As as previously mentioned, an American will never be separated from their guns.  Thankfully there is a lot of water between us and them and, most of them don’t travel (they can’t fit easily into the average European plane seat 😂).... most of them I said.

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