England - future world domination? (NHC)

[AlphonseCapone]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

In the not too distant we were competitive with England both domestically and internationally.

The captain of England and a number of England internationals were plying their trade north of the border.

We had players in the top flights of Spain, Italy, France, Germany.

Our teams competed in the Euro competitions without disgrace.

Now?

 

 

If us and England were equally matched at any point then that's a failure of them. Look at the size and resource differences between the countries.

 

Have we went backwards? Absolutely. Are we all fully aware of this? I'd say so. It's not 30 years ago where money wasn't a factor. We can't just ignore the resources at the disposal of these counties and say but we used to be good. 

Does England still think it's a major player on the world football scene? Yes. Is this based on any form of reality? Absolutely not. 

 

This all relates to the national team btw. Not disputing their club teams. 

[Mikey1874]

32 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Their achilles heel has been shown recently at both men’s level and u21 level: their defence. No point having Kane, Sterling, Rashford, Foden banging in goals if you’ve got a shite defence at the other end leaking more than you can score.

 

Surely not with £80 million rated Harry McGuire. 

[Alex Kintner]

13 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

In the not too distant we were competitive with England both domestically and internationally.

The captain of England and a number of England internationals were plying their trade north of the border.

We had players in the top flights of Spain, Italy, France, Germany.

Our teams competed in the Euro competitions without disgrace.

Now?

 

 

by “not too distant” you mean 30 years ago when Butcher was at Rangers or even longer ago when Archibald was at Barca and Jordan was at Milan? ??‍♂️

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

If us and England were equally matched at any point then that's a failure of them. Look at the size and resource differences between the countries.

 

Have we went backwards? Absolutely. Are we all fully aware of this? I'd say so. It's not 30 years ago where money wasn't a factor. We can't just ignore the resources at the disposal of these counties and say but we used to be good. 

Does England still think it's a major player on the world football scene? Yes. Is this based on any form of reality? Absolutely not. 

 

This all relates to the national team btw. Not disputing their club teams. 

 

7 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

If us and England were equally matched at any point then that's a failure of them. Look at the size and resource differences between the countries.

 

Have we went backwards? Absolutely. Are we all fully aware of this? I'd say so. It's not 30 years ago where money wasn't a factor. We can't just ignore the resources at the disposal of these counties and say but we used to be good. 

Does England still think it's a major player on the world football scene? Yes. Is this based on any form of reality? Absolutely not. 

 

This all relates to the national team btw. Not disputing their club teams. 

I like the fact they talk it up all the time- its a product to sell!

It is that arrogance/confidence that HAS lifted it to the "best league in the world"

I don't see their pundits mocking the smaller English clubs- and you know what?

When Killie topped the league Linnekar was bigging up Killie and wishing them luck-

our own press were "it will never last".

I take no satisfaction from poking England .

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

4 places in the Champions League.

All 4 euro competition finalists.

Billions sloshing around.

WC semi finalists.

Lionesses may win the womens WC.

World class players and coaches in the domestic league.

Genuine competition at the top of  the league.

Worldwide interest in the League.

Some of the finest stadia in the world.

Scottish kids stotting around in EPL tops.

The only thing we have left is sentimentality.

But how many English men actually played in those two finals. How many Englishmen scored in those two finals?

[Smoked-Glass]

4 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

Lot of talk last year from the media and some posters on here about how England were going to go on and dominate world football for the next ten years. They had reached the World Cup semi and their youth teams were reigning champions at every level. 

 

Fast forward twelve months:

-men’s team horsed by Holland and could only manage a goalless draw with Switzerland.

- u21s papped out of the Euros after conceding 9 goals in 3 matches

-u20s failed to even qualify for next years World Cup and finished 9th at the Toulon tournament

-u17s eliminated from Euro Championships and didn’t even qualify for World Cup

 

Pride before a fall etc.

 

 

.

We were a few seconds away from beating them 

[doctor jambo]

28 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

But how many English men actually played in those two finals. How many Englishmen scored in those two finals?

Played in them? Quite a few. More than any other nationality

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Smoked-Glass said:

We were a few seconds away from beating them 

 

When's the open top bus?

[Darren]

4 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

Lot of talk last year from the media and some posters on here about how England were going to go on and dominate world football for the next ten years. .

 

Was there?

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

If us and England were equally matched at any point then that's a failure of them. Look at the size and resource differences between the countries.

 

Have we went backwards? Absolutely. Are we all fully aware of this? I'd say so. It's not 30 years ago where money wasn't a factor. We can't just ignore the resources at the disposal of these counties and say but we used to be good. 

Does England still think it's a major player on the world football scene? Yes. Is this based on any form of reality? Absolutely not. 

 

This all relates to the national team btw. Not disputing their club teams. 

 

 

Thing is, thier club teams have about 10 English players between the top 5 sides. 

 

In the europa final, one English player out of 22 started in an all English final. 

 

Even in the Ucl final, English players were a minority, but fair doos to Spurs they do have a decent number of England internationals. 

 

English club success and the international teams won't be related due to this. 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot

[The Internet]

46 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

But how many English men actually played in those two finals. How many Englishmen scored in those two finals?

 

Is that really what we're clinging onto?

 

If it helps Spurs had more English players starting for them in the CL final than hearts had Scottish players starting in the scottish cup final. 

[Cruyff Turn]

4 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

Lot of talk last year from the media and some posters on here about how England were going to go on and dominate world football for the next ten years. They had reached the World Cup semi and their youth teams were reigning champions at every level. 

 

Fast forward twelve months:

-men’s team horsed by Holland and could only manage a goalless draw with Switzerland.

- u21s papped out of the Euros after conceding 9 goals in 3 matches

-u20s failed to even qualify for next years World Cup and finished 9th at the Toulon tournament

-u17s eliminated from Euro Championships and didn’t even qualify for World Cup

 

Pride before a fall etc.

 

 

.

[It should have been ten]

3 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

That we are horrifically jealous of everything to do with English football?

That from an even keel we are now trailing so far behind we can barely see them in the distance?

 

 

 

Speak for yourself 

[N Lincs Jambo]

Tbh I'm more jealous of a country like Croatia who have reached the WC Semi-finals in 1998 and 2018, winning through to the final last year.

 

Their population is significantly smaller than Scotland's (just over a third fewer inhabitants) yet they can still produce significant quality on the international stage. Other small countries like Holland go through periods where they don't qualify for a couple of tournaments but when they come back they are back with a bang (3 WC finals, one European Championship victory) plus look at Ajax this year in the CL. Domestically their club sides, like Ajax, continue to compete in the latter stages of European competition despite losing their best players to the big 4 leagues.

 

Add in countries like Belgium which are currently no 1 in the world, despite also being significantly smaller than England but currently streets ahead in terms of quality, and Portugal which are current European Champions and inaugural Nations Cup winners. Population of Portugal, approx 10 million, Belgium 11 million and Holland 17 million. All three combined (even add in Scotland and Croatia) still well short of the population of England.

 

Bottom line is Scotland can't keep trotting out the "small population" as an excuse for underperforming. 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Is that really what we're clinging onto?

 

If it helps Spurs had more English players starting for them in the CL final than hearts had Scottish players starting in the scottish cup final. 

My point is most top clubs in England and Scotland are only English/Scottish by club name and Geographical location only.

[Nookie Bear]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

My point is most top clubs in England and Scotland are only English/Scottish by club name and Geographical location only.

 

What were we under Romanov?

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

What were we under Romanov?

In the end a shambles. In the beginning a united nations. Interesting the Riccarton 3 were all Scots.

[tokyowalnut]

3 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

 

I like the fact they talk it up all the time- its a product to sell!

It is that arrogance/confidence that HAS lifted it to the "best league in the world"

I don't see their pundits mocking the smaller English clubs- and you know what?

When Killie topped the league Linnekar was bigging up Killie and wishing them luck-

our own press were "it will never last".

I take no satisfaction from poking England .

I don't agree with a lot of what you've said on this thread, but this is spot on. Doncaster should've been run out of town with the armageddon chat. That was prime time to promote the league, instead we were told it'd be the end of it. Our media and sfa/sfpl are so desperate for 2 teams to do well, it's to hell with the rest of us. England talk up all their teams, probably too much at times, but at least they do it, while the heads of our game are run by 1 dick who wont do his own press conference and another who thinks getting smaller TV deals than comparable sized countries around Europe is worth celebrating.

 

Anyway, I hope England lose at everything. As I want Hibs, Celtic, Rangers et al to lose. Rivalry, it's what football is built upon. 

[Fly the Saltire]

3 minutes ago, tokyowalnut said:

I don't agree with a lot of what you've said on this thread, but this is spot on. Doncaster should've been run out of town with the armageddon chat. That was prime time to promote the league, instead we were told it'd be the end of it. Our media and sfa/sfpl are so desperate for 2 teams to do well, it's to hell with the rest of us. England talk up all their teams, probably too much at times, but at least they do it, while the heads of our game are run by 1 dick who wont do his own press conference and another who thinks getting smaller TV deals than comparable sized countries around Europe is worth celebrating.

 

Anyway, I hope England lose at everything. As I want Hibs, Celtic, Rangers et al to lose. Rivalry, it's what football is built upon. 

?

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, It should have been ten said:

 

 

 

Speak for yourself 

I am, all that we are left with is celebrating their failures.

Its all very, well, Hibs.

I do, naturally want England to lose,

but its all a bit tainted by our own abject failures across the board.

Whether we like it or not, we have fallen a million miles behind all the other UK teams, and the other smaller Euro nations too.

I am jealous of watching them reach WC tournaments and so on.

 

[colinmaroon]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

I am, all that we are left with is celebrating their failures.

Its all very, well, Hibs.

I do, naturally want England to lose,

but its all a bit tainted by our own abject failures across the board.

Whether we like it or not, we have fallen a million miles behind all the other UK teams, and the other smaller Euro nations too.

I am jealous of watching them reach WC tournaments and so on.

 

 

Never mind, they've got Boris Johnson lined up as there next manager.

 

The players are 100% behind him as they'll be able to get back to belting it back in the pub after training.

 

 

[SpruceBringsteen]

"Scotland can't say anything because England are better blah blah blah"

 

Aye cool man, that's every single football rivalry dead in the ground then. Hibs can't say bolt about us. Rangers can't say hee haw about Celtic. Man United better keep their pie holes shut about City and Liverpool.

 

Get the absolute **** out of here.

[Cade]

"It's our year"

Every 2 years without fail.

 

"Golden Generation"

Every 10 years or so.

 

They're just a middling, mediocre, second-rate football team who think they're at the top table.

 

The less said about the conduct of their fans the better.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Cade

[Paolo]

11 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

The Hibs of international football, greatness always just around the corner. 

To be honest, I see Scotland as the  Hibs of International football.  Always failing, but always celebrating it.  

[Nookie Bear]

Bloody cricket team is no better either. 

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

True, but I'm not really one to stand in a glasshouse throwing rocks.

For our population size we are really shite.

Compare us to other smallish euro nations- Wales, Czechs, NI, RofI, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, ICELAND, we are utter, utter, utter balls

No-one asked you to comment, but in typical stockholmer fashion, you slag your own instead.

[Ibrahim Tall]

9 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

True, but I'm not really one to stand in a glasshouse throwing rocks.

For our population size we are really shite.

Compare us to other smallish euro nations- Wales, Czechs, NI, RofI, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, ICELAND, we are utter, utter, utter balls

 

Poland? Poland has a population of nearly 40 million, it’s nowhere near a small nation. Even the Czechs and Swedes are twice as big as Scotland.

 

 

[ri Alban]

25 minutes ago, Paolo said:

To be honest, I see Scotland as the  Hibs of International football.  Always failing, but always celebrating it.  

And another.

[AlphonseCapone]

27 minutes ago, Paolo said:

To be honest, I see Scotland as the  Hibs of International football.  Always failing, but always celebrating it.  

 

Who celebrates Scotland failing? 

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

In the not too distant we were competitive with England both domestically and internationally.

The captain of England and a number of England internationals were plying their trade north of the border.

We had players in the top flights of Spain, Italy, France, Germany.

Our teams competed in the Euro competitions without disgrace.

Now?

 

Phone Sky/BBC and ask them to direct the monies paid by the Scottish subs to be invested into Scottish fitbaw.  That's when it changed. And we've pumped England over 40 times. 

[Notts1874]

I will continue to laugh at England no matter how bad Scotland are. The two things aren't linked.

[Cade]

If population size had anything to do with sport, India and China would win everything going.

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

I will continue to laugh at England no matter how bad Scotland are. The two things aren't linked.

 

[NB GIN]

15 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

Lot of talk last year from the media and some posters on here about how England were going to go on and dominate world football for the next ten years. They had reached the World Cup semi and their youth teams were reigning champions at every level. 

 

Fast forward twelve months:

-men’s team horsed by Holland and could only manage a goalless draw with Switzerland.

- u21s papped out of the Euros after conceding 9 goals in 3 matches

-u20s failed to even qualify for next years World Cup and finished 9th at the Toulon tournament

-u17s eliminated from Euro Championships and didn’t even qualify for World Cup

 

Pride before a fall etc.

 

 

.

Reckon they will dominate club football for the next 10 years in Europe but no way international France for me all day 

[NB GIN]

4 hours ago, Paolo said:

To be honest, I see Scotland as the  Hibs of International football.  Always failing, but always celebrating it.  

Don’t see it anyway like That in fact what are you on about 

[It should have been ten]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

"It's our year"

Every 2 years without fail.

 

"Golden Generation"

Every 10 years or so.

 

They're just a middling, mediocre, second-rate football team who think they're at the top table.

 

The less said about the conduct of their fans the better.

 

[luckydug]

I suppose as in every other aspect of football it's money that has queered the pitch between Scotland and England. 

Before the TV and foreign billionaires stepped in to English football Scottish club and International sides competed very favourably against the English and others. Just at the same time as we stopped producing the class players that used to fill every team in the English league the money men took over and we were left behind.

I certainly wouldn't swop places with them and would always be proud to support Hearts and Scotland but it would be nice to see both get a fair crack of the whip finance wise.

 

 

[ToadKiller Dog]

As if Scottish football fans are the only ones who enjoy watching England's over inflated bubble burst. 

Every other nation on the planet with a passing interest in the game likely has a wee chuckle to itself. 

[Chaps]

23 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

Lot of talk last year from the media and some posters on here about how England were going to go on and dominate world football for the next ten years. They had reached the World Cup semi and their youth teams were reigning champions at every level. 

 

Fast forward twelve months:

-men’s team horsed by Holland and could only manage a goalless draw with Switzerland.

- u21s papped out of the Euros after conceding 9 goals in 3 matches

-u20s failed to even qualify for next years World Cup and finished 9th at the Toulon tournament

-u17s eliminated from Euro Championships and didn’t even qualify for World Cup

 

Pride before a fall etc.

 

 

.

 

Tremendous.

 

  

[Chaps]

DP.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Chaps

[Kiwidoug]

Just finished reading Kevin Keegan's book.  Points out how depressing it was to go to big club games when he was England manager and hardly saw any English players.

 

Mentions one game which the French manager also attended.  There were four English players on the park and six French.

 

Not earth shattering news I know but that's their main problem imo.

 

Can recommend the book.

[Brighton Jambo]

8 hours ago, luckydug said:

I suppose as in every other aspect of football it's money that has queered the pitch between Scotland and England. 

Before the TV and foreign billionaires stepped in to English football Scottish club and International sides competed very favourably against the English and others. Just at the same time as we stopped producing the class players that used to fill every team in the English league the money men took over and we were left behind.

I certainly wouldn't swop places with them and would always be proud to support Hearts and Scotland but it would be nice to see both get a fair crack of the whip finance wise.

 

 

For me though there is a bit of self fulfilling prophecy.  Down south they take every opportunity to talk up the game and have done since it became the premier league.  Almost a fake it till you make it attitude as it’s now genuinely one of the best leagues in the world.  This attracts more money and investment and off they go again.  They have also increasingly looking for innovative ways to sell the rights internationally and even here now with the amazon deal.  Crucially they also have a competitive league, until this season no team and one the league back to back in a decade.

 

compare all that to our one team league that Doncaster and his cronies do down at every turn.  The deals they have done have been awful. 

 

The issues we have seen this with the standard of refereeing, the sectarian singing being back to the forefront,  Incidents of things being thrown on the pitch etc.  And the crowning nonsense is the same team have won 10 of the last 11 domestic trophies and 8 leagues in a row.  Take all that together and no wonder people aren’t prepared to put money in.  Given the powers that be are happy to maintain the status quo it also becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[Beast Boy]

Yeah, let’s only observe rivalry when we are winning. ?

[Lovecraft]

14 hours ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Poland? Poland has a population of nearly 40 million, it’s nowhere near a small nation. Even the Czechs and Swedes are twice as big as Scotland.

 

 

 Yeah, but 20 Million of them are in Britain.

 

[Alex Kintner]

Women pumped out the World Cup as well.

 

[luckydug]

12 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

Women pumped out the World Cup as well.

 

National disaster?

[Bazzas right boot]

On 26/06/2019 at 12:04, Lovecraft said:

 Yeah, but 20 Million of them are in Britain.

 

 

 

Not for much longer. 

?

[Nookie Bear]

7 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Not for much longer. 

?

 

[Alex Kintner]

[The Old Tolbooth]