tokyowalnut Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: Guys rubbish. Fitness will always be an issue He was a huge disappointment and would be the same again. Some footballers are mercinaries who will give you very little apart from when they can be bothered, he was exactly that Your last paragraph could be a description of Lafferty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, tokyowalnut said: Your last paragraph could be a description of Lafferty! It could be virtually any player that looks after number one first Sooner folk realize that it's in most footballer's interest to do this. Then we'll avoid the tears and snotters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: Not allegedly, it’s fact and Linfield last year was the worst I have ever heard from Hearts fans to one of their own "Linfield last year" has nothing to do with the allegation that was made by Mrs Gonclaves, which allegedly happened near the Directors Box, and which has not been proven, as far as I'm aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: "Linfield last year" has nothing to do with the allegation that was made by Mrs Gonclaves, which allegedly happened near the Directors Box, and which has not been proven, as far as I'm aware. You stated allegedly to Barack’s comment on racial abuse and I merely pointed out the worst racist treatment I have ever heard during the Linfield match. I have no idea what the Director box incident is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: You stated allegedly to Barack’s comment on racial abuse and I merely pointed out the worst racist treatment I have ever heard during the Linfield match. I have no idea what the Director box incident is Belge, I'm not doubting what you heard in Linfield. I'm referring to the allegation, made by Isma's family, that was well publicised at the time, of racist abuse during a game at Tynecastle, which allegedly came from the area near to tye Directors Box. I assume Barack is referring to the same incident, if not, I apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 42 minutes ago, jambocub said: It could be virtually any player that looks after number one first Sooner folk realize that it's in most footballer's interest to do this. Then we'll avoid the tears and snotters We have been unlucky the last few years IMO. We've picked up some really poor professionals, some of the poorest you will find in the game. Look at Martin for example "he was within his rights to sit on his **** for a year instead of looking for a new team" was he **** Guys like Struna and Avlonitis played half their best for us too IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 34 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: "Linfield last year" has nothing to do with the allegation that was made by Mrs Gonclaves, which allegedly happened near the Directors Box, and which has not been proven, as far as I'm aware. The players wives etc used to sit in section P during the time the racist abuse happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 Wouldn't take him back now but was disappointed he left the way he did. His passing was sometimes a bit mis-judged but he was never lazy. Seen him chase right wingers back all the way to our left-back position to try and get a tackle in, shame some of the others couldn't be bothered and just watched him take the flak from some of our "wonderful" supporters. Used to infuriate me when he was booed. Scored a few very decent goals, missed a few sitters but even when he did, he didn't hide like others would and just try to get stuck in again and again. Was never the worst player to pull the jersey on these last three years or so, far from it! Probably the best thing he did was get the hell away from Tynecastle as soon as he could and I don't blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 35 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: We have been unlucky the last few years IMO. We've picked up some really poor professionals, some of the poorest you will find in the game. Look at Martin for example "he was within his rights to sit on his **** for a year instead of looking for a new team" was he **** Guys like Struna and Avlonitis played half their best for us too IMO. Soon as cathro was emptied Martin hadn't a chance in the first team as he wasn't a player levein rated. nothing to do with anything other than our dof and new manager never rated the guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 I would have him back. Good player and scorer of good goals. As for the racism aimed at him and his family I am sure he wrote something on twitter or said something in an interview saying he loved the Hearts fans and he was well aware the racism was only one or two idiots. He was very complimentary of our support after he left. Sure somebody much more 'twittery' could dig these quotes out very easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 1 minute ago, jambocub said: Soon as cathro was emptied Martin hadn't a chance in the first team as he wasn't a player levein rated. nothing to do with anything other than our dof and new manager never rated the guy Martin shouldn't have been signed in the first place. He's lucky if he's played 10 games in any season over 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo in iraq Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 him playing up front with Ikpeazu, yes please. Even better with Naismith playing off the front two..... Oh shit sorry forgot, that would make for exciting football. Sorry Mr Levein I spoke out of turn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Felt sorry for him a lot of the time. Used to get in to good positions and look for the ball, only for Lafferty to try and take it himself from too difficult an angle. There’s was no cohesion between the two. Would like to see him with a proper partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who_put_the_ball_in... Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Could do a job aye? Brilliant what a topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 9 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Belge, I'm not doubting what you heard in Linfield. I'm referring to the allegation, made by Isma's family, that was well publicised at the time, of racist abuse during a game at Tynecastle, which allegedly came from the area near to tye Directors Box. I assume Barack is referring to the same incident, if not, I apologise. No worries mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I heard Hearts supporters call him a “coon” six years ago at Hampden. He was playing for St Mirren at the time. Don’t know if that makes it any more acceptable in some people’s eyes or not? Taouile and Ngoo received the same playful nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 With regards to any racial abuse amongst our fans, challenge these fecking idiots as soon as you hear that drivel and get these clowns out our club, get them reported immediately to a steward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) I’d take him back. Was averaging 1 goal in 3 games in a very poor side with one of the worst midfields we’d had in years. No chance of it happening though. EDIT: Lafferty also must have been an absolute nightmare as a strike partner hence his 0 assists. With Naismith/Uche in there he’d score more imo Edited June 10, 2019 by boag1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Hearts Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, kimosavi said: With regards to any racial abuse amongst our fans, challenge these fecking idiots as soon as you hear that drivel and get these clowns out our club, get them reported immediately to a steward Aye, that'll go smoothly with no issues at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Isma was a moody *****. Decent scoring record and better than some of our options atm but not really a great footballer imo. His passing etc was woeful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: "Linfield last year" has nothing to do with the allegation that was made by Mrs Gonclaves, which allegedly happened near the Directors Box, and which has not been proven, as far as I'm aware. Racist abuse happens at Tynecastle. If it’s ever going to be eradicated you have to take it on good faith, when a complaint is made, that it did happen and call it out. It’s weak to assume that it was simply an unproven allegation as if, somehow, the rules of a courthouse must be applied before you do anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandylejambo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I was sorry to hear about "racist abuse" but I can't remember being sorry about him leaving, file alongside most of last seasons players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, sandylejambo said: I was sorry to hear about "racist abuse" but I can't remember being sorry about him leaving, file alongside most of last seasons players. Personally, I’d rather see us work with good players like Isma, and find the best way of getting them to perform for us. Feels like too many obviously good players slip through our hands without having the impact we need. File under Bjorn Johnsen and Juanma for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 14 hours ago, Chaps said: Would anyone take him back? Him and Uche would make a good partership with Naismith playing in behind. 100% yes. A better option than Vanacek or Wighton by a country mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said: Racist abuse happens at Tynecastle. If it’s ever going to be eradicated you have to take it on good faith, when a complaint is made, that it did happen and call it out. It’s weak to assume that it was simply an unproven allegation as if, somehow, the rules of a courthouse must be applied before you do anything about it. With regard to that specific allegation then it has yet to be proved that it actually happened. It could well be that Mrs Goncalves was conflating abuse directed at her husband with racism. As I said at the time, it would beggar belief that racist abuse that was so bad, his family apparently had to leave the ground, would take place within yards of the Directors and Press Box without being reported on. Very hard to believe. The club had to backtrack last season after suspending a couple of fans in Sec N, based on a false allegation from an away club's employee iirc. If you are going to take action against someone then yes, court house rules apply. Of course it has to be proved beyond doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Think Uche and Isma would be the most frustrating combination ever seen. One or the other is good - together...surely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: "Linfield last year" has nothing to do with the allegation that was made by Mrs Gonclaves, which allegedly happened near the Directors Box, and which has not been proven, as far as I'm aware. I’ve repeatedly said that I witnessed it happen at Firhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Think Uche and Isma would be the most frustrating combination ever seen. One or the other is good - together...surely not. Maybe Isma and MaGennis would work better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said: Maybe Isma and MaGennis would work better? Now we're talking. Clare just behind them ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 He's a talented player who scored some good goals and, as others have noted, was part of a team that didn't exactly lay chances on a plate. In other words, he has ability which, given the right management and coaching, could repay us. If he's free, I'd certainly take him back. And if it would annoy those who lazily imagine him to have been a lazy player, a bit like Djoum, that's a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Enzo on holiday in Egypt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said: I’ve repeatedly said that I witnessed it happen at Firhill. I've repeatedly said that I am referring to the specific allegation that was made about a game at TYNECASTLE, after which more than one club employee threatened lifetime bans BEFORE they investigated whether there was any truth in the allegation. What Firhill has to do with Goncalves, I don't know. As the club has not commented any further since then, we can safely assume that Mrs G's allegation was unfounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: With regard to that specific allegation then it has yet to be proved that it actually happened. It could well be that Mrs Goncalves was conflating abuse directed at her husband with racism. As I said at the time, it would beggar belief that racist abuse that was so bad, his family apparently had to leave the ground, would take place within yards of the Directors and Press Box without being reported on. Very hard to believe. The club had to backtrack last season after suspending a couple of fans in Sec N, based on a false allegation from an away club's employee iirc. If you are going to take action against someone then yes, court house rules apply. Of course it has to be proved beyond doubt. As said above, when Isma played for us, the players’ families etc. sat in section P. While I can’t prove that Mrs G heard her husband being racially abused, I did hear it when sitting in the section adjacent to P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Peebo said: As said above, when Isma played for us, the players’ families etc. sat in section P. While I can’t prove that Mrs G heard her husband being racially abused, I did hear it when sitting in the section adjacent to P. I don't doubt what you heard Peebo but the allegation referred to a game at Tynie after the new stand was open, with the players' relatives being housed among the directors and premium seats, within earshot of the press pack. This to me makes the allegation very hard to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 He was massively under rated. I would definitely take him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 44 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I don't doubt what you heard Peebo but the allegation referred to a game at Tynie after the new stand was open, with the players' relatives being housed among the directors and premium seats, within earshot of the press pack. This to me makes the allegation very hard to believe. During the 2017/18 season, the new stand was open. The players WAGs etc. sat in section P that season. In his original allegation, he said his brother told him of hearing racist abuse “around October” (2017), and his family heard similar abuse during two or three subsequent games. Our first game in front of the new stand was November 2017. Isma didn’t play in front of the new stand at a time the WAGs etc. sat by the press pack/directors etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub4TiddlerMurray Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: With regard to that specific allegation then it has yet to be proved that it actually happened. It could well be that Mrs Goncalves was conflating abuse directed at her husband with racism. As I said at the time, it would beggar belief that racist abuse that was so bad, his family apparently had to leave the ground, would take place within yards of the Directors and Press Box without being reported on. Very hard to believe. The club had to backtrack last season after suspending a couple of fans in Sec N, based on a false allegation from an away club's employee iirc. If you are going to take action against someone then yes, court house rules apply. Of course it has to be proved beyond doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Peebo said: During the 2017/18 season, the new stand was open. The players WAGs etc. sat in section P that season. In his original allegation, he said his brother told him of hearing racist abuse “around October” (2017), and his family heard similar abuse during two or three subsequent games. Our first game in front of the new stand was November 2017. Isma didn’t play in front of the new stand at a time the WAGs etc. sat by the press pack/directors etc.. So it allegedly took place at Murrayfield then?? We weren't playing at Tynie until Nov. Something about it just doesn't add up. Edited June 10, 2019 by Enzo Chiefo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Just now, Enzo Chiefo said: So it took place at Murrayfield then?? We weren't playing at Tynie until Nov. Something about it just doesn't add up. I heard him being racially abused at Tynecastle, in the new main stand. I can’t confirm when anything specific alleged incidents did (or did not) take place. I can, however, confirm that your “it can’t have happened because it would have been reported as it took place near the Directors and Press boxes” argument is fatally flawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Peebo said: I heard him being racially abused at Tynecastle, in the new main stand. I can’t confirm when anything specific alleged incidents did (or did not) take place. I can, however, confirm that your “it can’t have happened because it would have been reported as it took place near the Directors and Press boxes” argument is fatally flawed. I didn't realise they were sitting in Section P because certainly some players had their relatives in the Premium seats, Martin Keown being one that I saw there. However, it doesn't seem credible that it could have happened and gone unreported until he brought it up in the press, after leaving the club . Not doubting what you heard and there is always going to be the odd idiot. Given the silence since, I think we can assume there was no evidence that the specific allegation happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I've repeatedly said that I am referring to the specific allegation that was made about a game at TYNECASTLE, after which more than one club employee threatened lifetime bans BEFORE they investigated whether there was any truth in the allegation. What Firhill has to do with Goncalves, I don't know. As the club has not commented any further since then, we can safely assume that Mrs G's allegation was unfounded. Right, so because I heard someone racially abusing him at an away ground, means he wasn’t the victim of racist abuse? **** me, that’s some logic right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Can we have Jose Goncalves instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: Right, so because I heard someone racially abusing him at an away ground, means he wasn’t the victim of racist abuse? **** me, that’s some logic right there. My mistake. I thought you were referring to Firhill in the Cup this season. I wondered what the connection to Isma was. My apologies. I don't doubt at all what you heard but I am referring to the specific allegation about abuse at Tynecastle , which could even have been at Murrayfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Barack said: Wasn't just his brother/family & wife though. Other people in the stands reached out to him via social media, to tell him they'd heard it. As for social media, he was subjected to worse abuse online on his Instagram around that period and afterwards. Levein also asked the players if they'd heard anything untoward regarding racist abuse. He admitted it may not have been an isolated incident after checking with other players. One of Isma's main accusations that his wife heard, was being called a "****ing black." The argument that because the directors or the press never heard this racist abuse directed at Isma, it never occurred, is whataboutery in the extreme. A person seated how many seats away... is meant to pick out an individual shout or chant, amongst crowd noise? Do racists only choose to spout their shite when it's quiet in the stadium? Do they want full exposure for their witty racist abuse, or arrested? Would the guy who shouted "****ing coon" at Bartley at the Hibs game, been done if it wasn't for his ****ing stupidity of recording himself? No. As I doubt those within earshot didn't hear it, yet it seems like none were rushing to kick **** out of him, or have the authorities remove him from the stadium then & there. Enzo, I hope if you have a child, and God forbid they get sexually assaulted, you never apply your logic to that, in the same manner in which you do of alleged racism going on. Despite facts and testimony of Hearts fans on here. "Were there witnesses around to see them being sexually assaulted? Well, not sure if I believe my own child then. Sorry." Hearts fans, racially abused Isma. It's been heard. That's neither here nor there, whether Mrs. Goncalves' version has been verified or not. Once is enough, & to try & slander her reputation, when everyone knows there're a minority of scumbags...(a minority being too many. It's not just a Hearts problem, we all know that) is frankly reprehensible. The wilfully obtuse of this world rely on people not taking the time to lay these things out in black and white. Most of the time it’s difficult to motivate oneself to bother, but it’s always nice when someone does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW1 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 7 hours ago, kimosavi said: With regards to any racial abuse amongst our fans, challenge these fecking idiots as soon as you hear that drivel and get these clowns out our club, get them reported immediately to a steward Had one behind me at the final against Celtic. Shouting racial abuse about Eduoard, I turned round and questioned the Chap who clearly had way too much to drink . Don't care if Eduoard is a Celtic player racism is racism and I won't tolerate it near me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Racism is abhorrent. But there was just something about how Goncalves handled himself, or didn't, until he decided he was leaving, that didn't strike me as right. Unsatisfactory outcome any which way, and it would be naïve in the extreme to believe Hearts fans are united behind all of our players, and not just based on level of ability. But I wish Goncalves had highlighted it far earlier. Shame that any of us should even have any doubts, if anything the reasonable people, which I still believe to be the vast majority would have got behind him more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sir Gio said: Racism is abhorrent. But there was just something about how Goncalves handled himself, or didn't, until he decided he was leaving, that didn't strike me as right. Unsatisfactory outcome any which way, and it would be naïve in the extreme to believe Hearts fans are united behind all of our players, and not just based on level of ability. But I wish Goncalves had highlighted it far earlier. Shame that any of us should even have any doubts, if anything the reasonable people, which I still believe to be the vast majority would have got behind him more. If he had highlighted it before he knew he was off, he would have been savaged. You absolutely cannot and must not criticise Hearts supporters. It's a red rag to a bull online. If you dare speak out or point out that some of our fans are contemptible arseholes on occasion, you are rounded on. Everything else is fair game from owner to academy graduates, but god forbid anyone speaks out against the behaviour of some of our supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerjambo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 The most frustrating thing about us attacking, is that Naismith is the only player we seem to have with a good footballing brain. His link up play is second to none, he sees everything going on around him and knows exactly when to pass and bring others into play. I had high hopes for Goncalves and was left a bit disappointed after an encouraging start. Was it him, or was it the players around him? Our link up play is terrible in general, so maybe, just maybe he needed better players around him to bring out the best in him. He definitely had a bit of skill about him, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, Barack said: Wasn't just his brother/family & wife though. I know. I heard it, as stated in another one of my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Peebo said: I know. I heard it, as stated in another one of my posts. Not posting to cast doubt, just curious, how long before he left Peebo? It's not a criticism, just a frustration that it wasn't dealt with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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