What ever happened?

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, ollie2004 said:

2014 - 2015 5 year plan!

Grest potential, Walker, Nicolson, King, Holt McHattie, Mackay, Ozturk, Sow, Zeefuik to name a few.

Now we struggle against most sides yet they swept the Championship aside including Sevco and the Vermin. WHY?

 

The building of our new stand, the cost over runs and the fact it’s still not completed has and will impact the budget we have available for players. 

[The Internet]

48 minutes ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

 

Rangers and Hibs were a financial mess 

We got to start all over again due to the fans, debt free, feel good factor etc etc. 

That's why we had success. 

 

I agree with your point about it now being a 1 dimensional shit fest and something needs done about it. 

Robbie Neilson however.... Not the answer.

 

Rangers had just come off an unbeaten league season whilst we were relegated with a team of kids and we ruined them within 5 minutes of the season starting. I'm not saying we should get neilson back, we should have kept him when we had him and let him build. 

[jambogemz]

There was a fair amount of negativity towards Robbie in the lead up to his move to MK Dons and he had probably had enough of the aggro what with the plane stunt and bed sheets draped at Waverly and Gogarburn.

 

We were challenging for 2nd when he left and we've been largely shite since. 

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, ollie2004 said:

f2014 - 2015 5 year plan!

Grest potential, Walker, Nicolson, King, Holt McHattie, Mackay, Ozturk, Sow, Zeefuik to name a few.

Now we struggle against most sides yet they swept the Championship aside including Sevco and the Vermin. WHY?

 

Our Lost Prince imo. I don't know what he did to upset Neilson bur after that  Derby at Tynecastle  when Ozturk was injured and we let a winning position go he was pushed out. He could be inspirational on his day, scored one of the best goals I've ever seen and yet we ditched him.  He had character, which is something our current side (in the absence of Naismith and Haring) lack.

Edited April 22, 2019 by upgotheheads

[jambopilms]

2 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Our Lost Prince imo. I don't know what he did to upset Neilson bur after that  Derby at Tynecastle  when Ozturk was injured and we let a winning position go he was pushed out. He could be inspirational on his day, scored one of the best goals I've ever seen and yet we ditched him.  He had character, which is something our current side (in the absence of Naismith and Haring) lack.

He couldn't header the ball and shipped a couple of goals which he got dumped for. I always thought something went on behind the scenes with him.

[OTT]

Losing Ross ruined the succession plan and then Neilson walking so early shot whatever was left of it in the head. Appointing Cathro and the unforeseen disaster that brought further dug deep our problem causing Levein to need to wipe the board and start afresh with our current team. 

 

I think the fundamental issues of our team lie with Levein. Since we've been promoted we've been pretty close to garbage to watch. Effective under Neilson (But eye bleeding in the extreme), Inconsistent under Cathro and now both eye bleeding and inconsistent under Levein. 

 

I don't think Leveins ideas of how football should be played work. He's had 3 windows to bring in players capable of facilitating his vision, and all he's managed is to snag Naisy who's absolutely carried us through games - Thats not a bloody strategy. If he wasn't here how much further down the table would we be? He's a player of extreme quality that papers over the cracks of a very shite team. 

 

I want there to be something I'm missing, like this season was to get the necessities through the door and get the bones of a team. But we're still utterly pish. Starting to genuinely believe we need to shop around and try and find someone who has a vision and will see it out here. Loads of managers out there, DoF has not provided the continuity, vision or results it has been sold as. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

3 hours ago, ollie2004 said:

2014 - 2015 5 year plan!

Grest potential, Walker, Nicolson, King, Holt McHattie, Mackay, Ozturk, Sow, Zeefuik to name a few.

Now we struggle against most sides yet they swept the Championship aside including Sevco and the Vermin. WHY?

We havent had a LB since either!

[JamboGraham]

1 hour ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

We won the championship so easily because we were in a position to buy premiership level players, not because Robbie was a tactical genius. 

 

In 2014/15 Rangers spent over £13m on staff costs, Hearts £3.8m and Hibs £3.4m. We may have been in a position to sign Premiership level players but so were Hibs; and Rangers blew us out the water with their spending level. Hibs proudly declared at their AGM in 2015 that they were continuing to operate their Championship club at Premiership spending levels.

 

I would agree he is not a tactical genius but he was certainly very effective for us that season.

 

1 hour ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

We put the cash in, Ann put the cash in, We signed good players. If we didn't have the money, we wouldn't of.  What do you put it down to?  Robbie the rookie Neilson and his vast experience of technical knowledge?

 

Considering the amount we spent was comparable to Hibs and significantly less than Rangers then the only remaining factor is more effective recruitment and superior tactics. Unless we were just really, really lucky for an entire season?

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

2 hours ago, graygo said:

 

 

 

 

Edit: Just read the rest of the thread and can't believe how many think that Hibs are having a much better season than us.

 

Both teams had reasonable starts to the season, then Hibs started to lose regularly and fell from second to eighth.

 

Fortunes then reversed.  We have won twice in our last 10 league games.  Hibs have won six and drawn three in that many.  The big difference in that time is that they have beaten teams they "should" beat; while we have not.

Edited April 22, 2019 by King Of The Cat Cafe

[1971fozzy]

44 minutes ago, OTT said:

Losing Ross ruined the succession plan and then Neilson walking so early shot whatever was left of it in the head. Appointing Cathro and the unforeseen disaster that brought further dug deep our problem causing Levein to need to wipe the board and start afresh with our current team. 

 

I think the fundamental issues of our team lie with Levein. Since we've been promoted we've been pretty close to garbage to watch. Effective under Neilson (But eye bleeding in the extreme), Inconsistent under Cathro and now both eye bleeding and inconsistent under Levein. 

 

I don't think Leveins ideas of how football should be played work. He's had 3 windows to bring in players capable of facilitating his vision, and all he's managed is to snag Naisy who's absolutely carried us through games - Thats not a bloody strategy. If he wasn't here how much further down the table would we be? He's a player of extreme quality that papers over the cracks of a very shite team. 

 

I want there to be something I'm missing, like this season was to get the necessities through the door and get the bones of a team. But we're still utterly pish. Starting to genuinely believe we need to shop around and try and find someone who has a vision and will see it out here. Loads of managers out there, DoF has not provided the continuity, vision or results it has been sold as. 

 

Superb post

[shaun.lawson]

4 hours ago, leginten said:

 

Is a very succinct way to put it. 

 

That autumn Neilson - ridiculously - attempted to defend half-time leads at Tynecastle against vastly inferior Dundee and Killie teams and paid the price. I’ve no idea what went on in the half-time team-talks that season but I do remember us being there for the taking in the first 15 minutes of the second half of just about every home game.

 

Of course those were just rehearsals for the worst piece of game management ever.

 

You do realise that was in our first season back up? And that any side in their first season back up who aren't called Rangers would bite your bloody hand off for 3rd in the league?

 

I can't remember you being even half this demanding back when we were spending double or more under Romanov. It's bizarre. That first season back up was a success. Some refused to view it as such because some were apparently oblivious to how far Aberdeen had pulled ahead of us over the previous couple of years.

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

Losing Ross ruined the succession plan and then Neilson walking so early shot whatever was left of it in the head. Appointing Cathro and the unforeseen disaster that brought further dug deep our problem causing Levein to need to wipe the board and start afresh with our current team. 

 

I think the fundamental issues of our team lie with Levein. Since we've been promoted we've been pretty close to garbage to watch. Effective under Neilson (But eye bleeding in the extreme), Inconsistent under Cathro and now both eye bleeding and inconsistent under Levein. 

 

I don't think Leveins ideas of how football should be played work. He's had 3 windows to bring in players capable of facilitating his vision, and all he's managed is to snag Naisy who's absolutely carried us through games - Thats not a bloody strategy. If he wasn't here how much further down the table would we be? He's a player of extreme quality that papers over the cracks of a very shite team. 

 

I want there to be something I'm missing, like this season was to get the necessities through the door and get the bones of a team. But we're still utterly pish. Starting to genuinely believe we need to shop around and try and find someone who has a vision and will see it out here. Loads of managers out there, DoF has not provided the continuity, vision or results it has been sold as. 

 

This is an excellent post.

[cosanostra]

4 hours ago, 1874Gorgie1874 said:

2 shite manager appointments  is what happened 

 

Pretty much this and the fact that those players were not as good as we thought they would be.

[Cruyff Turn]

Stalin had 12 5 year plans. Just saying. ?

[Rocky jamboa]

Changing pretty much the full squad around every 6 months for the last 4 years hasn't helped. Poor scouting/recruitment hasn't helped. Having the wrong managers in charge  (robbie (after we got promoted), cathro (absolutely dreadful appointment. Set us back so far) and now levein), hasn't helped. 

 

There seems to be no plan on the football side. We keep correcting our mistakes every 6 months. At least we are trying to tie down our better players longer term, however djoum, haring not seeming keen to commit yet so more changes?

 

We need a complete change on the football side. Get rid of levein, Daly, fox, McPhee. I would love burley to get another chance. Had us playing such good football back in 05/06. Was he responsible for some of the players he brought in? There was another scout mentioned. Cant remember his name. Simon something. Get him back.

 

We will be paying big bucks for Berra and Naismith. I reckon uches new contract will be decent also lafferty was apparently on around £7k per week. It's not as if we cant afford the wages to attract decent players. It's just that we're wasting money on the wrong signings, such as oshinawa, Martin, vanacek, sammon, wighton, etc etc. Ridiculous. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Paulp74

[shaun.lawson]

11 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

I would love burley to get another chance.

 

Been out of the game way too long now. See also: Sergio.

 

11 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

There was another scout mentioned. Cant remember his name. Simon something. Get him back.

 

Simon Hunt. The problem there is the players he found for us - where he did great, I agree - were way too expensive on what we spend now.

 

The right manager, coaches and scouts are out there. But they won't necessarily be obvious choices. How many people would've suggested Steve Clarke before Killie nabbed him? Not many - because sometimes managers disappear off the radar; at others, it's a question of finding rough diamonds who others have overlooked.

[EasternRossco]

6 hours ago, ollie2004 said:

2014 - 2015 5 year plan!

Grest potential, Walker, Nicolson, King, Holt McHattie, Mackay, Ozturk, Sow, Zeefuik to name a few.

Now we struggle against most sides yet they swept the Championship aside including Sevco and the Vermin. WHY?

Simple. Football moves on. Good players at the time but it's transpired none of the aforementioned were as good as we thought they'd be. 9 players mentioned there.... If any fan can name where at least three of the teams they are at now without googling I'd be impressed. 

[leginten]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

You do realise that was in our first season back up? And that any side in their first season back up who aren't called Rangers would bite your bloody hand off for 3rd in the league?

 

I can't remember you being even half this demanding back when we were spending double or more under Romanov. It's bizarre. That first season back up was a success. Some refused to view it as such because some were apparently oblivious to how far Aberdeen had pulled ahead of us over the previous couple of years.

 

I lost count of the number of times I referred to the “missed opportunity” during the Romanov era. Of course we should have done so much better with the resources at our disposal. But in the end you could only laugh or cry at the circus. In fact I remember laughing on my way to many a match when I heard the team selection. Lee Wallace in goal for the red-carded Kurskis was probably a highlight.

 

The first season back up was a success, yes. But in the end it felt very flat indeed.  And, as has been pointed out many times before, I’m not sure which of the teams in that particular top flight you would have felt happy finishing behind. There were two very good winning runs - the first five games before we changed our style, and a run of four wins, three at home, shortly after the Cup exit. The latter run might have felt great under other circumstances but was scant consolation for what had proceeded it. The atmosphere was muted to say the least. And there was an outlier - a marvellous, swashbuckling performance against Motherwell.

 

Then there was the post-split run, which was, well, flat. It was met by a shrug of the shoulders from Robbie - it had been a long old season, and after all, we had to be ready for Europe at the end of June...

 

Most of all, that season contained the seeds of where we are right now - in every sense.

 

 

[leginten]

7 minutes ago, leginten said:

.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by leginten

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, leginten said:

 

I lost count of the number of times I referred to the “missed opportunity” during the Romanov era. Of course we should have done so much better with the resources at our disposal. But in the end you could only laugh or cry at the circus. In fact I remember laughing on my way to many a match when I heard the team selection. Lee Wallace in goal for the red-carded Kurskis was probably a highlight.

 

The first season back up was a success, yes. But in the end it felt very flat indeed.  And, as has been pointed out many times before, I’m not sure which of the teams in that particular top flight you would have felt happy finishing behind. There were two very good winning runs - the first five games before we changed our style, and a run of four wins, three at home, shortly after the Cup exit. The latter run might have felt great under other circumstances but was scant consolation for what had proceeded it. The atmosphere was muted to say the least. And there was an outlier - a marvellous, swashbuckling performance against Motherwell.

 

Then there was the post-split run, which was, well, flat. It was met by a shrug of the shoulders from Robbie - it had been a long old season, and after all, we had to be ready for Europe at the end of June...

 

Most of all, that season contained the seeds of where we are right now - in every sense.

 

 

 

Interesting read, as ever. But it strikes me that this is maybe less of a Hearts thing than a Scottish football thing?

 

There are plenty of people on here who can remember when Scottish football was actually good. When the national team punched way above its weight; when the league was really competitive; or when, in the late 80s, Rangers probably had a stronger squad than anyone in England bar Liverpool.

 

There'll also be people on here who can remember when 5th in Hearts' first season back up in 1983/4 was seen as a real success, and a sign of really good things to come. Compare 5th back then with 5th now and well... it's like comparing two different footballing planets. 

 

What I think happened when we came back up in 2015 was, after a long rollercoaster under VR, saving the club, then the euphoria of 2014/15, there was the sudden anticlimax of "is that all there is...?" That's the Scottish league in a nutshell; is that all there is? As it was below Aberdeen, 3rd didn't seem great - even though it kinda should've done. 5th or 6th now is just depressing - but heck, anything below 1st doesn't get anyone anything much, given when Europe starts (and more to the point, finishes) for everyone. 

 

I just think that leaves this great big void. It renders the whole league season close to redundant; it means we don't appreciate it when we've got it pretty good (see the criticism and occasional abuse Robbie had when we were pushing for 2nd; see the moaning about JJ and Paulo between 2010 and 2012 too). Because the attitude of many seems to be: it's a pub league, so how can we get excited by being 3rd/4th/5th in it?

 

It's a real problem for everyone in this league; hardly just Hearts. But it maybe affects our fans most of all because we know we're the third biggest club, and therefore demand more. Even when a lot more is essentially beyond us.

 

On Robbie's attitude to it being a "long hard season" (echoes of the "money-spinning replay") - well, that's why I want someone in who has little or no experience of the Scottish game. I think it drains people; it leaves them negative, jaded, in hoc to financial reality but not to supporters' dreams.

 

I'd like someone who dares to do things differently. It's risky - because Hearts fans won't tolerate losing to non-OF clubs. But there's plenty of visionary coaches out there. Some in England; more (as long as they're English speaking) abroad. If my English club can do that, why can't Hearts?

Edited April 23, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[ri Alban]

Most fans had a spring in their step and some confidence we'd win, before Robbie left. Now we have shite on our shoes and can only hope for a victory.

 

C'mon Craig get it sorted or give the job to someone who can.

Edited April 23, 2019 by ri Alban

[Voiceofreasonfortheseason]

12 hours ago, Finlay James said:

 

??? The vermin are a few points ahead of us in 5th place and celebrating it like they've won the league.  Meanwhile, we have been beyond shit this season but are still only a couple of points behind them and have reached the last four of the league cup and the final of the Scottish cup.  Don't even get me started in the difference in infrastructure of the two clubs because there is no comparison.

 

Hibs would give anything to be in our position right now and what we are building towards while they, along with other clubs, stand still.

I will give you the cups but I am not sure I agree on anything else.  We do have a more money coming in from the fans than any other club, I think it will be a few years before we see the benefit of this, need the right football department in place by then to take advantage and right now that seems a long way off.

[shaun.lawson]

12 hours ago, Finlay James said:

Hibs would give anything to be in our position right now and what we are building towards while they, along with other clubs, stand still.

 

Delusion, thy name be Finlay. Here's how it works when it comes to us and them, my man:

 

- They finished above us last season

 

- They've won a major trophy (their Holy Grail, at that) more recently than we have

 

- They won the most recent derby (at Tynecastle, to make matters even worse)

 

- They're above us in the table having been miles behind us only a couple of months back

 

Long term? Who gives a shit? Is this like how Hibs - and everyone else, as I recall - were all "terrified" of the "threat we posed" under Romanov? A 'threat' which resulted in two Scottish Cups and near extinction.

 

Hibs' position, especially by their non-existent standards, is fine. But the day football fans console themselves with "yeah, they beat us, but our club shop is better than theirs" is the day we should all give up. We're a football club; football clubs do their talking on the pitch. And we've barely done any talking on there in about 3 years now. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[Holyrood_Hearts]

10 hours ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

 

Rangers and Hibs were a financial mess 

We got to start all over again due to the fans, debt free, feel good factor etc etc. 

That's why we had success. 

 

I agree with your point about it now being a 1 dimensional shit fest and something needs done about it. 

Robbie Neilson however.... Not the answer. 

 

I’m sorry but that first bit is nonsense. Rangers were spending money like there’s no tomorrow getting through the leagues. 

 

As for Hibs, their footballing side was a mess down to the appointment of Butcher, getting relegated, releasing players only to then sack TB & appoint Stubbs almost a month after the season has finished. 

[Holyrood_Hearts]

12 hours ago, ollie2004 said:

2014 - 2015 5 year plan!

Grest potential, Walker, Nicolson, King, Holt McHattie, Mackay, Ozturk, Sow, Zeefuik to name a few.

Now we struggle against most sides yet they swept the Championship aside including Sevco and the Vermin. WHY?

Unfortunately all of these guys weren’t good enough for the step up. If you look at the 14-15 squad few (if any) have gone to better since leaving us. 

[Finlay James]

32 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Delusion, thy name be Finlay. Here's how it works when it comes to us and them, my man:

 

- They finished above us last season

 

- They've won a major trophy (their Holy Grail, at that) more recently than we have

 

- They won the most recent derby (at Tynecastle, to make matters even worse)

 

- They're above us in the table having been miles behind us only a couple of months back

 

Long term? Who gives a shit? Is this like how Hibs - and everyone else, as I recall - were all "terrified" of the "threat we posed" under Romanov? A 'threat' which resulted in two Scottish Cups and near extinction.

 

Hibs' position, especially by their non-existent standards, is fine. But the day football fans console themselves with "yeah, they beat us, but our club shop is better than theirs" is the day we should all give up. We're a football club; football clubs do their talking on the pitch. And we've barely done any talking on there in about 3 years now. 

 

Oh dear

[RS86]

Paterson and Sow carried us. Our form was on the turn under Neilson and when they left we never fully recovered until the start of this season IMO. Losing Naismith through the season has had a similar impact

[BOBTHEBRUCE]

55 minutes ago, Holyrood_Hearts said:

I’m sorry but that first bit is nonsense. Rangers were spending money like there’s no tomorrow getting through the leagues. 

 

As for Hibs, their footballing side was a mess down to the appointment of Butcher, getting relegated, releasing players only to then sack TB & appoint Stubbs almost a month after the season has finished. 

Rangers were and still are a financial mess, but yeah take your point.

They were spending a lot more than us on wages. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by BOBTHEBRUCE

[graygo]

13 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

 

Both teams had reasonable starts to the season, then Hibs started to lose regularly and fell from second to eighth.

 

Fortunes then reversed.  We have won twice in our last 10 league games.  Hibs have won six and drawn three in that many.  The big difference in that time is that they have beaten teams they "should" beat; while we have not.

 

Pretty similar seasons then? Certainly not the case that they have had a much better one than us, in fact if you take cup results into it then it could be argued that we have had a better one than them.

 

Edited to add that if they have beat teams they "should" beat and we haven't then seeing as there is only 3 points between us we must have beat teams we "shouldn't" have while they haven't.

Edited April 23, 2019 by graygo

[graygo]

4 hours ago, Voiceofreasonfortheseason said:

I will give you the cups but I am not sure I agree on anything else.  We do have a more money coming in from the fans than any other club, I think it will be a few years before we see the benefit of this, need the right football department in place by then to take advantage and right now that seems a long way off.

 

The second part of that statement is true but only because the first part isn't.

[Voiceofreasonfortheseason]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

The second part of that statement is true but only because the first part isn't.

Sorry mate, you need to explain this one to me, too much sun for me I reckon

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Voiceofreasonfortheseason said:

Sorry mate, you need to explain this one to me, too much sun for me I reckon

 

The money from the fans is going to the FoH not to the club, that will change once FoH own the club.

 

At present the money is being used to pay back Ann Budge with some of it diverted to help pay for the new stand, I thought that was common knowledge.

[Alva-Jambo]

Our present position is NOT acceptable at this stage and we should have managed fourth with  a Euro spot.

For all I like Craig, we need a tough battling manager who will get the ball down and make our players work their damn socks off or else. 

[<<1874>>]

21 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:

 

He is a million times better than the waster we have in charge now. Fact

GROW UP 

[Guest]

On 22/04/2019 at 10:58, Mauricio Pinilla said:

We lost the main man and it all fell apart

 

 

This. We were heading for a second successive top 3 (third if you include the Championship). 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, RS86 said:

Paterson and Sow carried us. Our form was on the turn under Neilson and when they left we never fully recovered until the start of this season IMO. Losing Naismith through the season has had a similar impact

 

We have been exceptionally unlucky with injuries to our irreplaceable players in the last 3 years. More so than any other club in the top league IMO. We didn't lose Sow through injury but made a terrible job of replacing him. Cathro losing Paterson to injury though was a major blow. Same with Naismith this season. In what can be a pretty tight top 6 Premiership these days it's these players who can make the difference between finishing 3rd and finishing 5th.

[boy_in_maroon]

On 22/04/2019 at 19:05, portobellojambo1 said:

We changed the way we played and suffered as a result. We played on the front foot in the Championship, the players looked as if they were enjoying it and the fans did. First away game back up the management team were shitting it about some guy called Rory Loy (sound like one of the suspects in the game of Cluedo) and we went up to Dens Park, lined up terribly in the first half, reverted to attacking 2nd half and as a result got a good result, but didn't learn from it.

That’s what has happened this season too, pj,,

[Pilmuir]

22 hours ago, OTT said:

Losing Ross ruined the succession plan and then Neilson walking so early shot whatever was left of it in the head. Appointing Cathro and the unforeseen disaster that brought further dug deep our problem causing Levein to need to wipe the board and start afresh with our current team. 

 

I think the fundamental issues of our team lie with Levein. Since we've been promoted we've been pretty close to garbage to watch. Effective under Neilson (But eye bleeding in the extreme), Inconsistent under Cathro and now both eye bleeding and inconsistent under Levein. 

 

I don't think Leveins ideas of how football should be played work. He's had 3 windows to bring in players capable of facilitating his vision, and all he's managed is to snag Naisy who's absolutely carried us through games - Thats not a bloody strategy. If he wasn't here how much further down the table would we be? He's a player of extreme quality that papers over the cracks of a very shite team. 

 

I want there to be something I'm missing, like this season was to get the necessities through the door and get the bones of a team. But we're still utterly pish. Starting to genuinely believe we need to shop around and try and find someone who has a vision and will see it out here. Loads of managers out there, DoF has not provided the continuity, vision or results it has been sold as. 

 

Decent post.

 

And yet we looked pretty good for the first few games of the season.

 

Injuries and bad refereeing have not helped.

 

But there is no denying that rubbish player recruitment and poor tactics make us look like a bottom six team.

[RS86]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We have been exceptionally unlucky with injuries to our irreplaceable players in the last 3 years. More so than any other club in the top league IMO. We didn't lose Sow through injury but made a terrible job of replacing him. Cathro losing Paterson to injury though was a major blow. Same with Naismith this season. In what can be a pretty tight top 6 Premiership these days it's these players who can make the difference between finishing 3rd and finishing 5th.

 

Agreed. Our luck has been incredibly bad with injuries. These players aren't easy to replace and it's cost us. Where could we have been had we been at full strength all season or had more depth in the squad?

 

The start we had this year excites me about the prospect of next season if (big if) we can fill out the squad with a bit more quality and progress further, but it could be blind optimism.

[NB GIN]

On 22/04/2019 at 19:09, neilnunb said:

Decided to ditch any pace from the team.

So true and any players that could pass the ball or beat a player 

 

I do not get why levein is not sacked 

utterly useless manager 

[Rudi5kaceldream1ng]

23 hours ago, OTT said:

Losing Ross ruined the succession plan and then Neilson walking so early shot whatever was left of it in the head. Appointing Cathro and the unforeseen disaster that brought further dug deep our problem causing Levein to need to wipe the board and start afresh with our current team. 

 

I think the fundamental issues of our team lie with Levein. Since we've been promoted we've been pretty close to garbage to watch. Effective under Neilson (But eye bleeding in the extreme), Inconsistent under Cathro and now both eye bleeding and inconsistent under Levein. 

 

I don't think Leveins ideas of how football should be played work. He's had 3 windows to bring in players capable of facilitating his vision, and all he's managed is to snag Naisy who's absolutely carried us through games - Thats not a bloody strategy. If he wasn't here how much further down the table would we be? He's a player of extreme quality that papers over the cracks of a very shite team. 

 

I want there to be something I'm missing, like this season was to get the necessities through the door and get the bones of a team. But we're still utterly pish. Starting to genuinely believe we need to shop around and try and find someone who has a vision and will see it out here. Loads of managers out there, DoF has not provided the continuity, vision or results it has been sold as. 

Solid post. I’m surprised at the way Neilson is regarded on here,mostly negative. He’s a good young manager and proving that with Dundee United. The way his team was in hindsight needlessly dismantled still leaves a sour taste for me. 

Anyway let’s face it this place will go into meltdown if we get horsed in the derby. Levein and the coaching staff have two games left to salvage their hearts jobs, that’s really not an understatement. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Alva-Jambo said:

Our present position is NOT acceptable at this stage and we should have managed fourth with  a Euro spot.

For all I like Craig, we need a tough battling manager who will get the ball down and make our players work their damn socks off or else. 

 

Normally I'd agree with you. The thing is though there are other teams in the league and we don't have a divine right to finish above them. Killie and Aberdeen are above us on merit this year, Hibs less so but the league table doesn't lie. The Premiership hasn't been this competitive, at least below Celtic but even then the gap isn't as big as some years, for some time - due to a general purse string tightening across the board, good managerial appointments (Killie) and long-term stability (Aberdeen).

 

The budgets of us, Aberdeen and Hibs will soon even out to be roughly the same, and with our off-field stuff sorted out, we should be able to push on. However we do have the FoH income that could put is in the best position finance wise. I'm optimistic personally.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Rudi5kaceldream1ng said:

Solid post. I’m surprised at the way Neilson is regarded on here,mostly negative. He’s a good young manager and proving that with Dundee United. The way his team was in hindsight needlessly dismantled still leaves a sour taste for me. 

Anyway let’s face it this place will go into meltdown if we get horsed in the derby. Levein and the coaching staff have two games left to salvage their hearts jobs, that’s really not an understatement. 

 

That was a major mistake by Cathro, and Levein for not cautioning against it (if he didn't). Quite arrogant on the part of Cathro to dismantle a team like that in his first job. For me, as DoF, Levein should have counselled against that, assuming he disagreed with the approach. As he's on record for saying he'd rather sign no-one in January than bring in a lot of players that need to get up to speed, I assume he did.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Guest

[BRY]

On 23/04/2019 at 01:17, EasternRossco said:

Simple. Football moves on. Good players at the time but it's transpired none of the aforementioned were as good as we thought they'd be. 9 players mentioned there.... If any fan can name where at least three of the teams they are at now without googling I'd be impressed. 

Walker is at Wigan

Sow is at Dundee Utd

Nicolson is somewhere in USA I think

[Rudy T]

On 22/04/2019 at 18:58, Mauricio Pinilla said:

We lost the main man and it all fell apart

 

 

Spot on!

 

We need to get him back! Sorry I ever criticised the guy!

 

He’s learned a lot since he’s been gone. The players played for him had us 2nd and his football was starting to get more attacking!

[Locky]

On the park, we probably achieved far more than we anticipated in 2 years, that it's been difficult to sustain that longer term.

 

Off the park, we are unrecognisable to the club Ann Budge inherited in the summer of 2014.

[Phil Dunphy]

On 22/04/2019 at 19:21, Finlay James said:

 

??? The vermin are a few points ahead of us in 5th place and celebrating it like they've won the league.  Meanwhile, we have been beyond shit this season but are still only a couple of points behind them and have reached the last four of the league cup and the final of the Scottish cup.  Don't even get me started in the difference in infrastructure of the two clubs because there is no comparison.

 

Hibs would give anything to be in our position right now and what we are building towards while they, along with other clubs, stand still.

 

It frightens me that you might actually believe that. 

[Finlay James]

43 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

It frightens me that you might actually believe that. 

 

I 100% do believe it and don't care who it frightens.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

On ‎22‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 20:14, 1971fozzy said:

 

 

WTF ? They are rightfully laughing at us. We were 11 points clear of them when Lennon left. Let that sink in. Let that sink in. We will likely be 6 points begins them on Sunday night. Let that sink in. Let that sink in.

 

that waste of space manager and coaching staff we have are 100% to blame. They certainly would NOT give anything to be in our position. Jesus Christ. We have Levein and his shit sidekicks

 

 

Well if we win the cup, The burgh police will have an issue.

 

Hibs will need to move their 5th place parade celebrations to the week after ours.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

 

I 100% do believe it and don't care who it frightens.

 

 

 

 

yip, we are building a bit more slower than I'd like but we have things in place that will allow us to improve continually.

 

Aberdeen are going to have to fund a new stadium soon. Clarke will leave Killie. Hibs are hibs.

 

Even with hibs, although it's shite they might end up above us, we have gained allot of points on them from last season. do the same next season and we'll catch Killie, Aberdeen and hibs!

 

A hibs fan I met in NY on the weekend they beat us 2-1 said to me, it was the most pointless derby win in history 5th/6th place up for grabs- "WOO HOO" was what he sarcastically said.

 

 

 

ofc, the discussion will be who is in charge for next season and after the final  it would be good to have a sensible discussion about that and I am sure Ann will be too.