Brauhauser2012 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) Against Rangers my friend pointed out the minute we were in possession how quickly our players suddenly found they had a man on them. In reverse they seemed to be left with plenty space. Interested to hear opinions on our marking. Are we using a zonal system? Actually this also crossed my mind against Livingston. Edited April 22, 2019 by Brauhauser2012 Livingston update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micole Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Rangers players worked harder than ours, we spent a lot of time chasing shadows, a lot of our players did not seem to have any game plan at all. We were 2nd best all over the park IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudiHMFC Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brauhauser2012 said: Against Rangers my friend pointed out the minute we were in possession how quickly our players suddenly found they had a man on them. In reverse they seemed to be left with plenty space. Interested to hear opinions on our marking. Are we using a zonal system? Actually this also crossed my mind against Livingston. What do you mean? From set pieces? In open play they were all over us because they work harder than us and our midfielders need three touches to control a football properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 We didn’t seem to be able to match up to them. Levein screaming at us to press them but we weren’t filling in the gaps at the back. Eg Burns presses up a bit and Berra wasn’t coming over to cover his player despite him being spare at the back. That left gaps and panic covering when Rangers broke pulling us right out of shape. Other telling point was they robbed us twice at half way,two passes, goal. As mentioned, we have three touches before we look us to see what’s going on around us and our finishing nowhere near as clinical. Wighton’s shot from Uche knock on was as easy as their two goals and we missed the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsalllaughathobos Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just a will to win for themselves,club,fans and career, Something our players are totally lacking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 The movement of our players is beyond amateur, the passing is so obvious and pedestrian we make us easy to play against. It takes us three passes to play it across the back rather than one or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauldrick Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) I have noticed recently that whoever is up against us at Tynecastle when play is at the opposite end of the field our right wing back moves into a more central field position leaving the opposition's left wing attacker in acres of space, Arfield was having a field day with this 'tactic' and I use the word tactic sarcastically. I recently put this down to inexperience when Godhino was guilty of this but, even Smith was doing this against Rangers, Berra and Souttar were being slated by some on here but, when the wing backs are constantly leaving the back door open on the flanks what chance do the overworked central defenders have covering up for the inadequencies of their team mates. For this I put the blame on the coaching staff, I dread to think what the likes of Sinclair, Forrest or Hayes will do to us if this policy of non-marking of opponents persists in the cup final. Edited April 22, 2019 by Bauldrick word missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, micole said: Rangers players worked harder than ours, we spent a lot of time chasing shadows, a lot of our players did not seem to have any game plan at all. We were 2nd best all over the park IMO. That's what happens when you have a team without any pace and a coach who knocks all the positivity out of the players by his style of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Bauldrick said: I have noticed recently that whoever is up against us at Tynecastle when play is at the opposite end of the field our right wing back moves into a more central field position leaving the opposition's left wing attacker in acres of space, Arfield was having a field with this 'tactic' and I use the word tactic sarcastically. I recently put this down to inexperience when Godhino was guilty of this but, even Smith was doing this against Rangers, Berra and Souttar were being slated by some on here but, when the wing backs are constantly leaving the back door open on the flanks what chance do the overworked central defenders have covering up for the inadequencies of their team mates. For this I put the blame on the coaching staff, I dread to think what the likes of Sinclair, Forrest or Hayes will do to us if this policy of non-marking of opponents persists in the cup final. The wing backs in most teams usually "tuck in" until the ball goes wide and then they move out but some coaches expect the wide player to be covering back to help the defenders. Having said that some of the wide players are not too good at defending which puts more pressure on the wing back. The defensive midfielder should be helping out along the back line in front of the defenders also but if teams move the ball quickly we are so slow it makes the job that much harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, letsalllaughathobos said: Just a will to win for themselves,club,fans and career, Something our players are totally lacking Have to agree. We have too many pedestrians who can hardly bring themselves to up a gear at all. Saturday showed up quite a few for what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corstorphine Jambo Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 In my opinion we lack mobility in the centre of the pitch. We were very seldom close enough to their midfielders to actually make a challenge. Once they went 3-0 up, Arfield pushed even further up. I sat and watched as Djoum didn’t seem to know what to do - stay or filter back. With Edwards on the bench I thought it might be a good time to introduce him with his energy as we were being overrun in the midfield. I can’t think we signed him with anything else in mind? Also interesting to see how Rangers kept their width with Flanagan hugging the touch line. We continually move everyone into a 20 yard square box. We’re lucky Flanagan is such a poor player as he had acres to himself when he got the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Deevers said: Have to agree. We have too many pedestrians who can hardly bring themselves to up a gear at all. Saturday showed up quite a few for what they are. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said: The movement of our players is beyond amateur, the passing is so obvious and pedestrian we make us easy to play against. It takes us three passes to play it across the back rather than one or two. This in spades, our play is so fixed it's unreal that we've not had more absolute hidings off teams. Each player in the team has a maximum of 2 or 3 passes/moves that they repeat and repeat 90% of the time. Keepers - play it long, give it short to CH who then plays it long while keeping the defence on the 18 yard line Berra in possession results in either passing a yard behind the LB or high ball to Uche Souttar - pass to RB, dribble into the centre circle then same pass to RB or RW, long diagonal to LW Full Backs - back to left or right CB, ball behind left or right winger, high ball to uche CM's - Back to CH's, sideways to other CM, ball behind left or right winger Wingers - back to full back or inside to CM to shift it for the same to happen at the opposite side of the pitch Uche - Wrestle for the ball conceding a foul 9/10 times, occasionally get the ball under control and try to dribble past whole defence Any other forward - Constantly look for flick on from Uche that doesn't happen, if it does then invariably the flick goes in the opposite direction to the run made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambopilms Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ribble said: This in spades, our play is so fixed it's unreal that we've not had more absolute hidings off teams. Each player in the team has a maximum of 2 or 3 passes/moves that they repeat and repeat 90% of the time. Keepers - play it long, give it short to CH who then plays it long while keeping the defence on the 18 yard line Berra in possession results in either passing a yard behind the LB or high ball to Uche Souttar - pass to RB, dribble into the centre circle then same pass to RB or RW, long diagonal to LW Full Backs - back to left or right CB, ball behind left or right winger, high ball to uche CM's - Back to CH's, sideways to other CM, ball behind left or right winger Wingers - back to full back or inside to CM to shift it for the same to happen at the opposite side of the pitch Uche - Wrestle for the ball conceding a foul 9/10 times, occasionally get the ball under control and try to dribble past whole defence Any other forward - Constantly look for flick on from Uche that doesn't happen, if it does then invariably the flick goes in the opposite direction to the run made Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_razors_edge Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ribble said: This in spades, our play is so fixed it's unreal that we've not had more absolute hidings off teams. Each player in the team has a maximum of 2 or 3 passes/moves that they repeat and repeat 90% of the time. Keepers - play it long, give it short to CH who then plays it long while keeping the defence on the 18 yard line Berra in possession results in either passing a yard behind the LB or high ball to Uche Souttar - pass to RB, dribble into the centre circle then same pass to RB or RW, long diagonal to LW Full Backs - back to left or right CB, ball behind left or right winger, high ball to uche CM's - Back to CH's, sideways to other CM, ball behind left or right winger Wingers - back to full back or inside to CM to shift it for the same to happen at the opposite side of the pitch Uche - Wrestle for the ball conceding a foul 9/10 times, occasionally get the ball under control and try to dribble past whole defence Any other forward - Constantly look for flick on from Uche that doesn't happen, if it does then invariably the flick goes in the opposite direction to the run made very good analysis. What gets me is you've got professional football players out there who cannot do the basics. I would urge everyone to watch rangers 2nd goal again. Watch Bozanic when he receives the ball. Absolutely no awareness of what's going on round about him. No check over his shoulder to see 1. where the danger from the opposition is coming from and 2. where his team mates (and therefore his options once he actually receives the ball) are. This lack of awareness means his body shape to receive the ball is all wrong - because he isn't aware of who's pressing him and how close they actually are he takes the ball facing his own goal and before he knows it he's been robbed and we're 2 down. This is a guy who's 30 years old, played professionally for what 13/14 years, represented his country at a world cup and he still cannot master a basic footballing skill. Frightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, The_razors_edge said: very good analysis. What gets me is you've got professional football players out there who cannot do the basics. I would urge everyone to watch rangers 2nd goal again. Watch Bozanic when he receives the ball. Absolutely no awareness of what's going on round about him. No check over his shoulder to see 1. where the danger from the opposition is coming from and 2. where his team mates (and therefore his options once he actually receives the ball) are. This lack of awareness means his body shape to receive the ball is all wrong - because he isn't aware of who's pressing him and how close they actually are he takes the ball facing his own goal and before he knows it he's been robbed and we're 2 down. This is a guy who's 30 years old, played professionally for what 13/14 years, represented his country at a world cup and he still cannot master a basic footballing skill. Frightening. While I agree to an extent it's not just an issue with the player on the ball in that situation. Firstly when we pass the ball to someone we pass to a position rather than a player, by that I mean that it's the same pass regardless of who the recipient is, no adjustment of pace for the recipients first touch, no adjustment towards the players stronger side, no adjustment away from the nearest opposition player. Secondly once the player receives the ball there is no variation in movement to receive the next ball which leaves the player on the ball either turning into danger while looking for someone to pass to or playing a telegraphed pass to where someone normally is/should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) In my opinion there is no movement in the hearts team so when zlamal gives the ball to souttar or Berra opposition find it easy to stop passes getting played into midfield as the hearts player are standing still so then they have other option than Uche and when opposition stand off Uche he is isnt as good when he needs to find a pass. Then we give possession away this must be a confidence issue and they want to hide especially at Tynecastle as everyone is told from a young age about moving off the ball. They definitely have ability when they show it. And the very few times it goes to the midfield they don’t have the correct body position they should as a midfielder looking to revive the ball Edited April 22, 2019 by Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 We had a real end of season feel about us on Saturday. Sure we will lift that again for Sunday at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambopilms Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, Sir Gio said: We had a real end of season feel about us on Saturday. Sure we will lift that again for Sunday at least We have given up after the split since we were promoted. It's not really acceptable when folk are paying money. I would love to just put no effort into my work for a couple of months a year but I can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RENE Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Everytime we make a pass forward it is to someone who is facing our goal. Ball never played into space and players never looking to run into space... always static. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Bauldrick said: I have noticed recently that whoever is up against us at Tynecastle when play is at the opposite end of the field our right wing back moves into a more central field position leaving the opposition's left wing attacker in acres of space, Arfield was having a field day with this 'tactic' and I use the word tactic sarcastically. I recently put this down to inexperience when Godhino was guilty of this but, even Smith was doing this against Rangers, Berra and Souttar were being slated by some on here but, when the wing backs are constantly leaving the back door open on the flanks what chance do the overworked central defenders have covering up for the inadequencies of their team mates. For this I put the blame on the coaching staff, I dread to think what the likes of Sinclair, Forrest or Hayes will do to us if this policy of non-marking of opponents persists in the cup final. Probably to do with the fact we never have any width on the right, unless Morrison is playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 We are completely lacking in confidence. Lees not fit enough to play a pressing game either. We allow the opposition to shut us down because we need 2 touches just to control the ball and we are far too slow at moving the ball on. They were hungrier and we looked like an end of season team with one eye on a SCF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Ribble said: This in spades, our play is so fixed it's unreal that we've not had more absolute hidings off teams. Each player in the team has a maximum of 2 or 3 passes/moves that they repeat and repeat 90% of the time. Keepers - play it long, give it short to CH who then plays it long while keeping the defence on the 18 yard line Berra in possession results in either passing a yard behind the LB or high ball to Uche Souttar - pass to RB, dribble into the centre circle then same pass to RB or RW, long diagonal to LW Full Backs - back to left or right CB, ball behind left or right winger, high ball to uche CM's - Back to CH's, sideways to other CM, ball behind left or right winger Wingers - back to full back or inside to CM to shift it for the same to happen at the opposite side of the pitch Uche - Wrestle for the ball conceding a foul 9/10 times, occasionally get the ball under control and try to dribble past whole defence Any other forward - Constantly look for flick on from Uche that doesn't happen, if it does then invariably the flick goes in the opposite direction to the run made One that drives me mental is the full back hanging back and the CH walking towards him with the ball, they virtually only give themselves the option to pass it back. I always think its easy for coaches to fix leaky defences but fixing the attacking movement and attitudes takes a lot longer. Whoever if anyone comes in will need a while to really get us attacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qferryjam Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Bauldrick said: I have noticed recently that whoever is up against us at Tynecastle when play is at the opposite end of the field our right wing back moves into a more central field position leaving the opposition's left wing attacker in acres of space, Arfield was having a field day with this 'tactic' and I use the word tactic sarcastically. I recently put this down to inexperience when Godhino was guilty of this but, even Smith was doing this against Rangers, Berra and Souttar were being slated by some on here but, when the wing backs are constantly leaving the back door open on the flanks what chance do the overworked central defenders have covering up for the inadequencies of their team mates. For this I put the blame on the coaching staff, I dread to think what the likes of Sinclair, Forrest or Hayes will do to us if this policy of non-marking of opponents persists in the cup final. We did exactly that at Murrayfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo, Goodbye Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Brauhauser2012 said: Against Rangers my friend pointed out the minute we were in possession how quickly our players suddenly found they had a man on them. In reverse they seemed to be left with plenty space. Interested to hear opinions on our marking. Are we using a zonal system? Actually this also crossed my mind against Livingston. I mentioned this in a match thread weeks ago, off the ball we're either being told to stand off, or our players are being incredibly lazy. It must be so easy to play against us, it's unreal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qferryjam Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Ribble said: This in spades, our play is so fixed it's unreal that we've not had more absolute hidings off teams. Each player in the team has a maximum of 2 or 3 passes/moves that they repeat and repeat 90% of the time. Keepers - play it long, give it short to CH who then plays it long while keeping the defence on the 18 yard line Berra in possession results in either passing a yard behind the LB or high ball to Uche Souttar - pass to RB, dribble into the centre circle then same pass to RB or RW, long diagonal to LW Full Backs - back to left or right CB, ball behind left or right winger, high ball to uche CM's - Back to CH's, sideways to other CM, ball behind left or right winger Wingers - back to full back or inside to CM to shift it for the same to happen at the opposite side of the pitch Uche - Wrestle for the ball conceding a foul 9/10 times, occasionally get the ball under control and try to dribble past whole defence Any other forward - Constantly look for flick on from Uche that doesn't happen, if it does then invariably the flick goes in the opposite direction to the run made I started typing something similar earlier but got bogged down , a bit like our tactics, we play one up front but are overrun in midfield, we play 3 at the back but still can’t mark the 1 forward up against us , It is all about passages of play and we have been found out big style , opposing players don’t press that high just high enough so the ball is eventually shuttled to Berra who is never really marked then boom , no penetration no responsibility taken to move us forward , we have played well earlier in the season but I still don’t think the manager knows his best formation or system which is criminal, he’s not getting the best out of any 11 at any 1 time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartsofgold Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Our midfielders lack pace and mobility. Olly Lee looked like he had the turning circle of the Titanic on Saturday coupled to the pace of a decrepit pensioner rather than a professional athlete. Djoum was not much better. 2 of our goals came from midfielders not paying attention, being caught out and the Sevco strikers being alert and being played in behind our defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Brauhauser2012 said: Against Rangers my friend pointed out the minute we were in possession how quickly our players suddenly found they had a man on them. In reverse they seemed to be left with plenty space. Interested to hear opinions on our marking. Are we using a zonal system? Actually this also crossed my mind against Livingston. 5 hours ago, micole said: Rangers players worked harder than ours, we spent a lot of time chasing shadows, a lot of our players did not seem to have any game plan at all. We were 2nd best all over the park IMO. 4 hours ago, letsalllaughathobos said: Just a will to win for themselves,club,fans and career, Something our players are totally lacking Al true sadly. Our players aren't scared to go back to the dressing room at half time after being booed off. If there's one thing the greatest and even the decent managers have is that their players fear them first and love them second. I think Ann Budge knows this. I'll bet that nobody let down AB and her business interests twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 We need pace and energy in that midfield badly. We're so one paced its not even funny. Upgrading here over the summer is an absolute necessity. Lee and Djoum are frustrating the hell out of me. Bozanic although not great at least moves about and tries. Not saying the others aren't trying but their lack of movement is horrific. Cochrane improving things just by running about shows up how big an issue our midfield is. Mind Don Cowie? Probably had one of the most thankless jobs in football but run himself into the ground every game without fail in his mid 30s. Lee at 27 and Djoum at 29(?) have no excuse. Scott Pittman at Livingston's work rate is phenomenal any time I've seen him. Surely would be worth offering Livi some cash and Wighton on loan or something to get him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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