Bking9 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 10 hours ago, i8hibsh said: He is young? He has had one nice touch in 4 games? Blind faith that he will come good? We know who I am talking about. I am now out of suggestions. If you think he ain’t a great player that is fine, it’s your opinion a there’s a lot of people will agree with you. For me, we as a team are not exactly firing all cylinders, CL putting this lad on the firing line is the problem, he clearly isn’t a confident lad and for me shouldn’t be anywhere near the first team. Keena for me looks fearless and looks like the type that could deal with a bit of pressure therefor should be the one that plays off Uche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 10 hours ago, i8hibsh said: He is young? He has had one nice touch in 4 games? Blind faith that he will come good? We know who I am talking about. I am now out of suggestions. Folk were saying Wighton had a good game on Saturday because he closed down a centre half 3 times in the 2nd half on Saturday. Forget the fact he missed a sitter from 3 yards out, had a break into the box where his 1st instinct was to shite it, look up & want to pass when a proper forward would've had a go at goal. And do pretty much nothing else. That's their idea of a good striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Where we are with strikers this season GOALS Naismith 14 Uche 6 MacLean 6 Clare 5 Keena 1 Morrison 1 Lafferty 1 Strikers (I include Clare) 33 out of 62 goals (53%) MINUTES PLAYED per GOALS SCORED (This is based on stats that may not include last couple of games) Naismith - 164 Uche - 232 MacLean- 335 Clare - 371 Keena - 217 Morrison - 1888 Lafferty - 333 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 (edited) Time to judge a striker is when they have had a few games with good service in the box. Unfair to judge any of our strikers tbf. Edited April 4, 2019 by Gambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 12 hours ago, i8hibsh said: He is young? He has had one nice touch in 4 games? Blind faith that he will come good? We know who I am talking about. I am now out of suggestions. 2 legs and a head is enough to get through our scouting criteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Bking9 said: If you think he ain’t a great player that is fine, it’s your opinion a there’s a lot of people will agree with you. For me, we as a team are not exactly firing all cylinders, CL putting this lad on the firing line is the problem, he clearly isn’t a confident lad and for me shouldn’t be anywhere near the first team. Keena for me looks fearless and looks like the type that could deal with a bit of pressure therefor should be the one that plays off Uche Agree with this too. It's good to see that this thread, having started off as a childish dig at a young player by an absolute brain donor, has actually stimulated a coherent debate for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, Gambo said: Time to judge a striker is when they have had a few games with good service in the box. Unfair to judge any of our strikers tbf. Correct, it's not like any of our strikers have been missing 4-5 sitters every game, not have they failed to get on the end of through balls or crosses across the 6 yard box. Considering the number of clear cut chances we have created in the last few months i'd say that the number of goals from our forwards is in fact actually quite impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 4, 2019 Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 52 minutes ago, kimosavi said: 2 legs and a head is enough to get through our scouting criteria Head yes but 2 legs not so much, kinda discriminates against 1 legged strikers tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E3OBE Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Strikers at Hearts have a near impossible task. Our manager plays with no pace, no width, no creativity. If we don't have incoming proven pacey wide players (not projects)... Just write next season off as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrymac Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Gambo said: Time to judge a striker is when they have had a few games with good service in the box. Unfair to judge any of our strikers tbf. Correct Gambo - we might have quite a wait to pass judgement based on that criteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 13 hours ago, i8hibsh said: He is young? He has had one nice touch in 4 games? Blind faith that he will come good? We know who I am talking about. I am now out of suggestions. Points system from Wyscout seems to be how we sign players now but when I go to watch them play I want them to play attractive football and hopefully score goals. The way we sign players may have changed and the system may be the way forward however I still think you have to look at the style of play the player is playing in before you sign them. A player who may score highly in a foreign league may not necessarily do well here if we play a totally different style of play. Ultimately a striker is judged on the number of goals and perhaps assists he provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Where we are with strikers this season GOALS Naismith 14 Uche 6 MacLean 6 Clare 5 Keena 1 Morrison 1 Lafferty 1 Strikers (I include Clare) 33 out of 62 goals (53%) MINUTES PLAYED per GOALS SCORED (This is based on stats that may not include last couple of games) Naismith - 164 Uche - 232 MacLean- 335 Clare - 371 Keena - 217 Morrison - 1888 Lafferty - 333 Assists Naismith 4 Uche 4 Morrison 3 Mulraney 3 McDonald 3 MacLean 2 Clare 1 Wighton 1 Vanecek 1 Lafferty 1 (Olly Lee has 10) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 I judge my strikers first and foremost on goals scored. Then by how many players he can knock out the way before finally falling down himself and moaning that he didn't get a free kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo92 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Wighton will be a good player, he would be a great foil for Uche if he was ever given the chance. We need a massive change of style if we want our strikers to start scoring bucket loads, almost all our goals come from set pieces or stramashes/ball dropping to a midfielders on edge of the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 23 hours ago, wavydavy said: Points system from Wyscout seems to be how we sign players now but when I go to watch them play I want them to play attractive football and hopefully score goals. The way we sign players may have changed and the system may be the way forward however I still think you have to look at the style of play the player is playing in before you sign them. A player who may score highly in a foreign league may not necessarily do well here if we play a totally different style of play. Ultimately a striker is judged on the number of goals and perhaps assists he provides. Look at Vanacek for proof of that, totally unsuited to the way we play and Levein has now said we need another option when Uche is unavailable( his fan boys have said that’s impossible all season). He said that he had to bring expectations down where Vanacek was concerned, he’s not going to come here and score ten goals in the rest of the season (because we won’t create the chances)That is the exact OPPOSITE of the way a great manager/coach deals with players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 23 hours ago, Jambo92 said: Wighton will be a good player, he would be a great foil for Uche if he was ever given the chance. We need a massive change of style if we want our strikers to start scoring bucket loads, almost all our goals come from set pieces or stramashes/ball dropping to a midfielders on edge of the box. It’s funny how Levein slated Vanacek for not being physical enough to deal with the defenders in Scotland, but doesn’t where Wighton is concerned. The lad needs to toughen up, it’s been said he’s strong enough so he needs to let defenders know he there’s, as Maclean does for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 23 hours ago, Jambo92 said: Wighton will be a good player, he would be a great foil for Uche if he was ever given the chance. We need a massive change of style if we want our strikers to start scoring bucket loads, almost all our goals come from set pieces or stramashes/ball dropping to a midfielders on edge of the box. That will cover my 'blind faith' part in my OP then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo92 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: It’s funny how Levein slated Vanacek for not being physical enough to deal with the defenders in Scotland, but doesn’t where Wighton is concerned. The lad needs to toughen up, it’s been said he’s strong enough so he needs to let defenders know he there’s, as Maclean does for example. They're different types of players, Vanecek is there to be big bulldozing target man similar to Uche (I think) where as Wighton and MacLean are more nippy, filling the space that a player like Uche creates from the mayhem he causes. But he has been stuck out wide, Wighton has a long way to go but he definitely has the potential to be a solid striker for this division, hopefully he gets the time to develop here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmiyaHearts Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jambo92 said: They're different types of players, Vanecek is there to be big bulldozing target man similar to Uche (I think) where as Wighton and MacLean are more nippy, filling the space that a player like Uche creates from the mayhem he causes. But he has been stuck out wide, Wighton has a long way to go but he definitely has the potential to be a solid striker for this division, hopefully he gets the time to develop here. Wighton doesn't have the natural instinct to be an effective striker. He'll end up an ineffective wide player for a bottom-six Premiership team. I imagine he'll be out on loan net season when the (hopefully) new manager separates the wheat from the chaff. Edited April 5, 2019 by OmiyaHearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underwaterwoodwelder Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Baw in the net... simple really. assists if they come .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo92 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said: Wighton doesn't have the natural instinct to be an effective striker. He'll end up an ineffective wide player for a bottom-six Premiership team. I imagine he'll be out on loan net season when the (hopefully) new manager separates the wheat from the chaff. His performances for the reserves where he has had a proper run out in the centre forward's position suggests he does have some sort of natural finishing ability in front of goal. I think he's had two starts up front for the first team, both away and one being at Ibrox, so I won't be judging him yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Jambo92 said: They're different types of players, Vanecek is there to be big bulldozing target man similar to Uche (I think) where as Wighton and MacLean are more nippy, filling the space that a player like Uche creates from the mayhem he causes. But he has been stuck out wide, Wighton has a long way to go but he definitely has the potential to be a solid striker for this division, hopefully he gets the time to develop here. Doesn’t matter if they’re different types, Vanacek has to learn how to fight with defenders as does Wighton. They’re was two occasions on Saturday where he could’ve dumped McKenna on the track and he didn’t, he would’ve done it to him. Did Robbo ever let huge CHs dominate him or not fight them physically, if you want to play in this league you need to be physical. Souttar said that Maclean was one of the hardest most physical players he played against, always knew he was there and left his mark on you. Edited April 5, 2019 by Pasquale for King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted April 5, 2019 Author Share Posted April 5, 2019 55 minutes ago, underwaterwoodwelder said: Baw in the net... simple really. assists if they come .. Remind me what that is again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo92 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Doesn’t matter if they’re different types, Vanacek has to learn how to fight with defenders as does Wighton. They’re was two occasions on Saturday where he could’ve dumped McKenna on the track and he didn’t, he would’ve done it to him. Did Robbo ever let huge CHs dominate him or not fight them physically, if you want to play in this league you need to be physical. Souttar said that Maclean was one of the hardest most physical players he played against, always knew he was there and left his mark on you. I agree partly, however they clearly have different attributes and as a manager/fan I would want them to make best use of their qualities. It's quite clear Wighton wouldn't get much change out of trying to play the Kevin Kyle role against Aberdeen's defence - my point is that to get Wighton scoring goals we would need to see a different type of play and formation. Sure he needs to work on his strength and bring some aggression into his game but that will come with time and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jambo92 said: I agree partly, however they clearly have different attributes and as a manager/fan I would want them to make best use of their qualities. It's quite clear Wighton wouldn't get much change out of trying to play the Kevin Kyle role against Aberdeen's defence - my point is that to get Wighton scoring goals we would need to see a different type of play and formation. Sure he needs to work on his strength and bring some aggression into his game but that will come with time and experience. Yeah pretty much. He’s been training and playing with Naismith/Uche/Maclean and doesn’t seem to have picked it up yet though. You then have to wonder why we rushed in to buy him when nobody else was credited with an interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 34 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Remind me what that is again? It’s what you see when you watch football on the telly I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Remind me what that is again? 3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: It’s what you see when you watch football on the telly I think. It usually means we are 1 down when i see this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo92 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Yeah pretty much. He’s been training and playing with Naismith/Uche/Maclean and doesn’t seem to have picked it up yet though. You then have to wonder why we rushed in to buy him when nobody else was credited with an interest. It was a bit of strange signing especially with a similar player in Keena waiting in the wings. He could have stayed at Dundee and been relegated and picked up on a cheap or he might have stayed and scored a bucket load, led them to safety and we would all be sat here saying we should be looking to sign him this summer. That's the beauty of football I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jambo92 said: It was a bit of strange signing especially with a similar player in Keena waiting in the wings. He could have stayed at Dundee and been relegated and picked up on a cheap or he might have stayed and scored a bucket load, led them to safety and we would all be sat here saying we should be looking to sign him this summer. That's the beauty of football I guess! We might’ve been better off loaning him back to them but who knows. We have had some guys score winners against Hibs that weren’t legends by any means, he could well be added to that list on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: Look at Vanacek for proof of that, totally unsuited to the way we play and Levein has now said we need another option when Uche is unavailable( his fan boys have said that’s impossible all season). He said that he had to bring expectations down where Vanacek was concerned, he’s not going to come here and score ten goals in the rest of the season (because we won’t create the chances)That is the exact OPPOSITE of the way a great manager/coach deals with players. So another waste of money yet again. At least he is only on an 18 month contract unlike some of the other duds that have been signed on much longer deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, wavydavy said: So another waste of money yet again. At least he is only on an 18 month contract unlike some of the other duds that have been signed on much longer deals. Yes probably. I actually feel sorry for him and any other striker, we create extremely few chances which will continue as the way he’s talking CL has no plans to go to Spain and retire on health grounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 A bit of patience and rationale would be a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, saxondale said: A bit of patience and rationale would be a good start. How long do you suggest.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, wavydavy said: How long do you suggest.? There is no set amount. There are other variables to consider that could affect how a player performs eg just come back from long term injury, the player may need to adjust to new country/language, we may not be playing to suit the player’s style of play etc etc. Its a bit more sensible to consider these things first before making your mind up on a player just because they are not performing right away. Just look at Naismith and Clare. Both players either hadn’t had much game time or had come back from a long term injury. Therefore both started slowly initially, but now they are performing. Its not too much to ask imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts_fan Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 On 04/04/2019 at 00:37, i8hibsh said: 32 games in and Levein is still 'trying' stuff. Speaks volumes. "Trying stuff" when we don't have any of our top three strikers available or fit. Seems reasonable enough to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 1 hour ago, saxondale said: There is no set amount. There are other variables to consider that could affect how a player performs eg just come back from long term injury, the player may need to adjust to new country/language, we may not be playing to suit the player’s style of play etc etc. Its a bit more sensible to consider these things first before making your mind up on a player just because they are not performing right away. Just look at Naismith and Clare. Both players either hadn’t had much game time or had come back from a long term injury. Therefore both started slowly initially, but now they are performing. Its not too much to ask imo. Really, you think Clare is performing. Apart from chipping in with the odd goal he has done nothing much in my opinion. Naismith was not the same player after his first injury and had never really got back to his early season form and of course is still out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 hours ago, saxondale said: There is no set amount. There are other variables to consider that could affect how a player performs eg just come back from long term injury, the player may need to adjust to new country/language, we may not be playing to suit the player’s style of play etc etc. Its a bit more sensible to consider these things first before making your mind up on a player just because they are not performing right away. Just look at Naismith and Clare. Both players either hadn’t had much game time or had come back from a long term injury. Therefore both started slowly initially, but now they are performing. Its not too much to ask imo. Clare is performing? Really? Guess each to their own but for me 99% of the games just pass him by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 On 04/04/2019 at 00:37, i8hibsh said: 32 games in and Levein is still 'trying' stuff. Speaks volumes. I still couldn’t pick a first team after 32 matches of the season. I’m convinced Levein picks the team then pulls 7 names out a hat for the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Hall said: Clare is performing? Really? Guess each to their own but for me 99% of the games just pass him by. He can do better, for sure, but he is clearly a good player playing in what is a bad team, at the moment. Do you have an opinion on the actual point I was trying to make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saxondale Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 4 hours ago, wavydavy said: Really, you think Clare is performing. Apart from chipping in with the odd goal he has done nothing much in my opinion. Naismith was not the same player after his first injury and had never really got back to his early season form and of course is still out. Its not really my point though is it? If you disagree with the two examples of players I gave then fine, we will have to agree to disagree. What are your thoughts on the actual point I was trying to make though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fila Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Goals goals goals and more goals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimosavi Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 03/04/2019 at 23:49, i8hibsh said: He is young? He has had one nice touch in 4 games? Blind faith that he will come good? We know who I am talking about. I am now out of suggestions. Goals, effort and link up play Speed as a bonus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwapsy Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Goals Linkup play generally How many chances they need to score Assists Not an easy job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Personally I dont care if he's a hard drinking, smoking, womanising arsehole who is lazy at training and doesnt try a leg on the pitch IF he can score 20 or more goals a season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: Personally I dont care if he's a hard drinking, smoking, womanising arsehole who is lazy at training and doesnt try a leg on the pitch IF he can score 20 or more goals a season! Who are you thinking of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Natural Orders said: Who are you thinking of? Nobody really. Just answering the OP. Ball in the back of the onion bag is how I judge a "striker". Players like Uche are hard working, really good team players and he's great at holding up the ball, dragging opposition round him which creates space (or should do) for our players and chips in with some good efforts and goals but IMO, he's not a PURE striker. Robbo McCoist Boyd On their day were pure strikers, poachers, opportunists, but not known for hard work off the ball. Edited June 19, 2019 by Pans Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Imagine bringing back a thread that is obviously a troll by the OP in the first instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Imagine bringing back a thread that is obviously a troll by the OP in the first instance. to be fair, no one is forcing you to read it or asking you to respond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Natural Orders said: to be fair, no one is forcing you to read it or asking you to respond You are on ignore. Please never interact with me again. Understood!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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