portobellojambo1 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 In terms of the overall idea I'm not against it, but I'd imagine not all existing clubs would vote in favour of it, including Celtic and Rangers, despite any newspaper articles about them wanting to move to England (a country that doesn't want them anyway). But where to start to try and correct the existing system, that is something that is unanswerable. There will always be huge divisions, with or without Celtic and Rangers, as Scotland is a very divided country, and that division runs beyond religion, which in itself plays a major part, but definitely not the only part of division(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenks Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I'm all for getting them to ****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Buaben Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Clubs won't go for it. Majority are reliant on Rangers and Celtic bringing big supports once/twice a season and giving them half the ground to keep the books ticking over. Even Hearts/Hibs and Aberdeen cut allocations and as soon as the form dips they give them the bigger allocation back. Was it 2000 that everyone was upset with them over TV money or something and the whole league resigned.. then went back on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 55 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: I utterly despise both of the bigot brothers but you can't just demand a new league just because they essentially win everything. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Smack said: Exactly, both clubs fly the Saltire with pride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Gambo said: The old firm are Scottish, they belong in our league. This. Can’t live with them, can’t live without them. What needs to happen is the removal of the SFA, the west coast bias, a fairer voting system, a complete crackdown on Sectarianism and a restructuring of Scottish Football with only two professional leagues. Then, just then will things change for the better, all clubs, the national team and Scottish society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Form Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Give it time. After Celtic win 10 in a row and Rangers realise that access to lots of European cash mean that their ugly sister will always be ahead of them then there will be rumblings of change. The two are at different levels now with only one guaranteed to pick up trophies every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Top Corner said: Daft idea. The old firm bring in far too much money and interest. TV deals would be non existent for example. TV deals are not really that much anyway. Not when you factor in the lost gate money. I suppose armchair fans would miss them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkierobroy Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Enough about West Coast bias. The syatem is biased against, yes, Hearts, Hibs, Inverness, Aberdeen, Montrose, whoever, but also Thistle, Killie, Morton, St Mrren etc etc. Get over yourselves. I'm a proud Weegie and I would love a league without the OF, with Celtic headng off to thir native Ireland and Sevco somewhere Union Jacky. I'd be happy with a league that had to live within its means and, having to raise its money from attendances, actually focused on supporters. It won't happen, of course. Our clubs seem to believe in the myth (repeated by some above) that we financially 'need' the bigot brothers. No - we 'need' a league where we don't get bored playing the same team three, four or more times a season. We need a top league where, usually, there are St Mirren-Morton, Ayr-Killie, Raith-Dunfermline, Hearts-Hibs, Dundee-Utd derbies. Fans who don't go to matches v the OF will come back. Fans who enjoy derbies will come back. Fans will enjoy a fresh round of fixtures. The standard of our league will be low, But it's low now, and the OF don't care about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduardo.j Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Top Corner said: Daft idea. The old firm bring in far too much money and interest. TV deals would be non existent for example. Really? Wouldnt a wide open league generate more tv money in the long term? let's face it with sky dropping the price of the English tv deal it won't be long before someone in England says "oh what if we allow Celtic and rangers to play here" based on sky giving out more cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduardo.j Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Gambo said: How is the League of Wales doing? I see your point but Cardiff and Swansea have thrived massively since leaving that set-up, nothing to say that Scottish clubs wouldn't benefit either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduardo.j Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 8 hours ago, i8hibsh said: I utterly despise both of the bigot brothers but you can't just demand a new league just because they essentially win everything. This isn't about that at all, it's about their behaviour on and off the pitch, they control the sfa, they tap up our players constantly just to leave them on the bench, their fans spew hatred and destroy stadiums, this goes way beyond them winning things and I've had enough of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduardo.j Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 hours ago, kirkierobroy said: Enough about West Coast bias. The syatem is biased against, yes, Hearts, Hibs, Inverness, Aberdeen, Montrose, whoever, but also Thistle, Killie, Morton, St Mrren etc etc. Get over yourselves. I'm a proud Weegie and I would love a league without the OF, with Celtic headng off to thir native Ireland and Sevco somewhere Union Jacky. I'd be happy with a league that had to live within its means and, having to raise its money from attendances, actually focused on supporters. It won't happen, of course. Our clubs seem to believe in the myth (repeated by some above) that we financially 'need' the bigot brothers. No - we 'need' a league where we don't get bored playing the same team three, four or more times a season. We need a top league where, usually, there are St Mirren-Morton, Ayr-Killie, Raith-Dunfermline, Hearts-Hibs, Dundee-Utd derbies. Fans who don't go to matches v the OF will come back. Fans who enjoy derbies will come back. Fans will enjoy a fresh round of fixtures. The standard of our league will be low, But it's low now, and the OF don't care about it. Bang on with this! In fact let's look at how much worse our league has become since cutting down to 10 and now 12 teams, in the 80's Dundee United and Aberdeen won the league, hearts were very close as well. cutting down our top flight has hurt our game more than it's helped it in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 11 hours ago, indianajones said: I'd be up for joining a league without those two parasites. Just invite 15 other teams and let those two compete with themselves. I think if the other 10 broke away, and asked the rest to follow. The rest would say na we'll join Rangers and Celtic but cheers for asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 25 minutes ago, eduardo.j said: Bang on with this! In fact let's look at how much worse our league has become since cutting down to 10 and now 12 teams, in the 80's Dundee United and Aberdeen won the league, hearts were very close as well. cutting down our top flight has hurt our game more than it's helped it in my opinion. This all happened after it went to 10. But if you mean in the long run, 4 times a season is a bore a feck. Souness and Sky ruined Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elshin Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Did aberdeen not vote with celtic when rangers died to keep the money and tv money mainly to 1st and 2nd place. I actully love the buzz of beating celtic and rangers, rather than get rid of them have a 16/18 team top league, play twice where i genuinely beleive this would close the gap between 1st and 3rd over night. I do think the sfa need a shake up, the bias towards the old firm is embarrasing, laughable and full on shaking with rage at the same time. Unfortunately going back to a sky tv deal means the focus will be all abput 2 clubs and 4 games. If they were to fek off i would be delighted, but a bit of me inside sad that i had yet to see Hearts topple them over a season in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said: In terms of the overall idea I'm not against it, but I'd imagine not all existing clubs would vote in favour of it, including Celtic and Rangers, despite any newspaper articles about them wanting to move to England (a country that doesn't want them anyway). But where to start to try and correct the existing system, that is something that is unanswerable. There will always be huge divisions, with or without Celtic and Rangers, as Scotland is a very divided country, and that division runs beyond religion, which in itself plays a major part, but definitely not the only part of division(s). It’s exacerbated by the clueless pricks who think that the football club they support is an extension of their political beliefs. This “more than just a club” and “we are the people” horseshit, has a lot to answer for. Iv’e been reading a few online articles last night and this morning. Celtic supporters are amongst the absolute worst in the world for it. This ridiculous idea that being a Celtic means you automatically fall in to a number of different pigeon holes when it comes to everything from UK politics to Trident and the Middle East. There is never any introspective self-criticism. They go over to Spain and act like arseholes - “Bloody Franco’s storm troopers, trying to quash our passion because we are Catalan supporters”... no... they are just taking a heavy handed approach to a bunch of pissed up weegie scumbags who have no respect for the people and places they visit. Rangers do the same. They however just seem to admit they are vile filth most of the time. Celtic get the old compliant media to act like an extension of their PR department. Kids growing up in Scotland start to feel angry or passionate about political issues by the time they reach their late teens, and Celtic and Rangers have it set up to welcome them in to the fold depending on where they stand on right and left wing ideals, global conflicts and politics etc. Once they get sucked in, they lose the capacity for critical thought on these subjects because ‘that is what my club stands for’ etc. They truly are two horrendous and nauseating institutions. Edited February 22, 2019 by Glib and Shameless Crier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martoon Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said: It’s exacerbated by the clueless pricks who think that the football club they support is an extension of their political beliefs. This “more than just a club” and “we are the people” horseshit, has a lot to answer for. Iv’e been reading a few online articles last night and this morning. Celtic supporters are amongst the absolute worst in the world for it. This ridiculous idea that being a Celtic means you automatically fall in to a number of different pigeon holes when it comes to everything from UK politics to Trident and the Middle East. There is never any introspective self-criticism. They go over to Spain and act like arseholes - “Bloody Franco’s storm troopers, trying to quash our passion because we are Catalan supporters”... no... they are just taking a heavy handed approach to a bunch of pissed up weegie scumbags who have no respect for the people and places they visit. Rangers do the same. They however just seem to admit they are vile filth most of the time. Celtic get the old compliant media to act like an extension of their PR department. Kids growing up in Scotland start to feel angry or passionate about political issues by the time they reach their late teens, and Celtic and Rangers have it set up to welcome them in to the fold depending on where they stand on right and left wing ideals, global conflicts and politics etc. Once they get sucked in, they lose the capacity for critical thought on these subjects because ‘that is what my club stands for’ etc. They truly are two horrendous and nauseating institutions. ...and thousands take Celtic or Rangers into the polling booth with them. Scotland's political future is in the hands of utter morons who can't/won't stop forming opinions based on the football club they support. Makes me despair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 31 minutes ago, martoon said: ...and thousands take Celtic or Rangers into the polling booth with them. Scotland's political future is in the hands of utter morons who can't/won't stop forming opinions based on the football club they support. Makes me despair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB GIN Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I understand the frustration regarding the referee standard and some of the decisions this year for rangers are mind boggling. Overall the referee standard is poor and it puts me off from watching But one thing for sure there is a definite agenda towards helping rangers even a blind man can tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 15 hours ago, Gambo said: The old firm are Scottish, they belong in our league. The old firm doesn't exist anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 3 hours ago, ri Alban said: This all happened after it went to 10. But if you mean in the long run, 4 times a season is a bore a feck. Souness and Sky ruined Scottish football. People forget ( or weren’t there ? ) but the reason we moved to a ten team league was because an 18 team league was boring as feck due to too many meaningless games. There is no magic number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said: The old firm doesn't exist anymore In terms of their reciprocal hatred and their mutual financial dependancy, they do still exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, davemclaren said: People forget ( or weren’t there ? ) but the reason we moved to a ten team league was because an 18 team league was boring as feck due to too many meaningless games. There is no magic number. I would have 10 teams, no split, much fairer distribution of money. But, for me, it all comes down to UEFA creating a fairer distribution of Champions League cash that benefits the leagues as well the participating clubs, rather than just the major clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Nookie Bear said: I would have 10 teams, no split, much fairer distribution of money. But, for me, it all comes down to UEFA creating a fairer distribution of Champions League cash that benefits the leagues as well the participating clubs, rather than just the major clubs. 10 is my preferred number as well. Unfortunately Uefa has to panderto the mega rich clubs in order to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 14 hours ago, Gambo said: How is the League of Wales doing? Does the Welsh league have 3 clubs who regularly pull in gates of 15k+? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: I would have 10 teams, no split, much fairer distribution of money. But, for me, it all comes down to UEFA creating a fairer distribution of Champions League cash that benefits the leagues as well the participating clubs, rather than just the major clubs. It doesn't need to extend to UEFA to change this, all it takes is nerve. If all 10 Premier League clubs united and didn't break, then they have one choice, join us (on equal terms) or find somewhere else to play. It would take whatever the notice period is (2 years?) to kick in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said: This. Can’t live with them, can’t live without them. What needs to happen is the removal of the SFA, the west coast bias, a fairer voting system, a complete crackdown on Sectarianism and a restructuring of Scottish Football with only two professional leagues. Then, just then will things change for the better, all clubs, the national team and Scottish society. To get that we would need Rangers and Celtic to leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I’d fully support breaking away from both arse cheeks 100% Id absolute love it and do believe a new league would thrive. let them try and whore themselves to another league or better still just set up their own arse cheeks league and play each other 38 times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts_fan Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 15 hours ago, Smack said: Not married then? If that happened, "divorced" would be the marital status of any man with a pair of balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Can you imagine the seethe on here if we had a breakaway league and didn't win it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 45 minutes ago, davemclaren said: People forget ( or weren’t there ? ) but the reason we moved to a ten team league was because an 18 team league was boring as feck due to too many meaningless games. There is no magic number. Correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 We still wouldn't win it with Levein in charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduardo.j Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, davemclaren said: People forget ( or weren’t there ? ) but the reason we moved to a ten team league was because an 18 team league was boring as feck due to too many meaningless games. There is no magic number. If that's the case then why are most leagues 18 teams across Europe? Surely without the old firm smaller clubs in the top flight would get bigger crowds over time and become more competitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said: To get that we would need Rangers and Celtic to leave. Not necessarily. We just need the SFA to be dismantled or to become some sort of impartial body, rather than the Lanarkshire mafia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, eduardo.j said: If that's the case then why are most leagues 18 teams across Europe? Surely without the old firm smaller clubs in the top flight would get bigger crowds over time and become more competitive? Certainly the bigger countries are. Not so convinced about the leagues in those countries with small populations like Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bauldrick Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 If Rangers and Celtic move to England someone on here made a good point that they would hoover up all the promising talent up here, another good point was that TV deals without them would be paltry ( I think we would be left with Alba coverage}, the media coverage would be even bigger in the Rangers/Celtic's favour with little or no coverage for the rest of us, Pot Hunters would abandon their local teams in droves to follow, follow in favour of this nightmare scenario, I totally detest the old firm, the SFA, and the Refs but what is the answer? The doomsday scenario is that the Old Firm would dump us in the blink of an eye given the chance to join the English League or some fancy big-shot set up, so all the fears aforementioned may well come to pass, Jeezzzzus, and you think Brexit is a potential disaster.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.T.K Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 17 hours ago, Gambo said: The old firm are Scottish, they belong in our league. Surprisingly and sadly I agree with Gambo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said: Not necessarily. We just need the SFA to be dismantled or to become some sort of impartial body, rather than the Lanarkshire mafia. It's one and the same thing as far as I am concerned. The OF are the governing body. The GFA are just puppets appointed to support the cartel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 18 hours ago, vegas-voss said: I don't think we should but those two would be pretty quick at dumping the rest of us without a care for a Euro league or a place in England. I say we should. Let the Bigot Brothers have their own league, where there can play each other 36 times a season, and let the TV companies fight for the rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 18 hours ago, Gambo said: The old firm are Scottish, they belong in our league. Debatable ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingle Bells Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I think the Bigots would have to join the Northern League Division 2 under the English pyramid system if allowed in, which is doubtful due to the baggage they carry and greed of the English clubs to get to the top table. They have nowhere to go, so a well advanced plan for a breakaway league should be in place to call their bluff and negotiate a fairer league at least, imho. How much would SPL TV generate in revenues compared with what we get at the moment ,if pooled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 16 hours ago, Pans Jambo said: That 2 can sook ma bawz! Where do I sign to boot them down to Eng er land? I doubt that the English would want them. The English have an excellent product why would they want a bunch of Neanderthals in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 19 hours ago, Gambo said: The old firm are Scottish, they belong in our league. Apart from their location is there much else? Foreign owners,managers, players, fans and both would leave at the drop of a hat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hearts Daft said: I doubt that the English would want them. The English have an excellent product why would they want a bunch of Neanderthals in there They have enough of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 6 hours ago, martoon said: ...and thousands take Celtic or Rangers into the polling booth with them. Scotland's political future is in the hands of utter morons who can't/won't stop forming opinions based on the football club they support. Makes me despair. Scotland's political future is in the hands of anyone entitled to vote surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 44 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said: I think the Bigots would have to join the Northern League Division 2 under the English pyramid system if allowed in, which is doubtful due to the baggage they carry and greed of the English clubs to get to the top table. They have nowhere to go, so a well advanced plan for a breakaway league should be in place to call their bluff and negotiate a fairer league at least, imho. How much would SPL TV generate in revenues compared with what we get at the moment ,if pooled? As a regular at the northern league they can GTF as far as that is concerned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Hearts Daft said: I doubt that the English would want them. The English have an excellent product why would they want a bunch of Neanderthals in there Was talking to a guy from Killie today. He supports his team but has 2 boys age 14 & 15 and he was worried he would lose them to the Glasgow uglies. They are now Killie season ticket holders. He said they (the arse cheeks) are just poison & when they visit Killie they are the only support he doesnt like or have a beer with in either the club pub or the Park Hotel after the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 When we next win the league, I want it to happen having beaten Rangers and Celtic to the title. I accept that is unlikely and therefore would be in favour of us either joining another existing structure or creating one with teams from other countries. What I wouldn't like to see is even more games played against two bob Scottish clubs with plastic pitches and <2000 fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martoon Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 34 minutes ago, jambocub said: Scotland's political future is in the hands of anyone entitled to vote surely? Of course. But I find it depressing that so many opinions/votes are skewed by a mindless devotion to those football clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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