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August Landmesser

Thistle Cup Game - Protest

Protest at Thistle Cup Game  

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  1. 1. Would you be in favour of a protest against the KO time at the Thistle cup game?

    • Yes
      228
    • No
      223
    • St Johnstone
      62

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  • Poll closed on 04/03/19 at 18:59

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August Landmesser

There's been a fair bit of grumbling about the scheduling of this game - partly the date/day as a Monday night for a cup QF isn't ideal - but mostly the time. 7.05pm will mean that many fans can't make it to the game, or will have to battle through rush-hour in the Central Belt to make it on time. For many people, this game has gone from being a potentially cracking away day to a hurried slog through traffic. 

 

The timing is even crazier when you consider that the first cup QF of the weekend doesn't kick off until 5.15 on Saturday night. 

 

Is there any appetite for a brief, visible protest intended to express fans' displeasure at being shunted around to suit TV schedules? Similar protests in other countries have seen tennis balls (this was mentioned on the Cup Draw thread, but I can;t remember the poster's name - sorry!) being flung onto the pitch just before kick-off to delay the start of the game - it makes a point, doesn't hurt anyone, and is very hard for TV to avoid seeing or commenting on. Sustained, repeated protests like this have worked in Germany, where the Bundesliga have cancelled Monday night games from next season. 

 

The TV has ruined our scheduling, let's ruin theirs.

Edited by August Landmesser

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Phil Dunphy

Nope, none here. 

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Artful Dodger

Absolutely no appetite to visit that Shithole stadium in its current form ever again.

 

Glads it's on tv and 7.05 suits me perfect. 

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kila

Yes, I'd happily chuck a few quid into the coffers for some visual protest.

 

If these kick off times are to happen, some of the TV money should help fund fan travel.

 

Should find out what the players would prefer -  more people in the ground cheering them on or being on the telly.

 

 

Edited by kila

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Locky

I'm still well up for going, but means I've got to book time off work to get through, and as mentioned it's not ideal going through in rush hour.

 

Worse yet, my usual away day companions can't go cos of work so facing the possibility of a trip through on my Jack Jones.

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colinmaroon

Thread only seconds old and it's all about "ME."

 

I live in Dumbarton, had little chance of getting a couple of tickets but now, have a chance.

 

However, it is a slap in the face for most fans.

 

Could you see either of the Uglies being scheduled for a Monday night at that time in Edinburgh?

 

 

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LeftBack

Tennis ball idea is not bad. As said other countries do it - it's a painless way of registering anger. Yes KO suits some and not others but principle is enough to at least do something rather than nothing. 

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redm

Is there a really obvious reason that I've missed for them not scheduling this game for the Saturday lunchtime or even the Friday night?

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been here before

Perhaps rephrase the question:

 

Are you in favour of a protest. If so what are you going to do about it?

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Selkirkhmfc1874

There's nothing to protest against ! The club's including hearts voted for the tv deal knowing the tv companies could choose date and time of fixtures 

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sac

Was never going to make it on the Monday due to work, i feel really sorry for the guys who will go, but this is a complete kick in the bollocks. I take it the OF are ok though?

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Boab
3 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

There's nothing to protest against ! The club's including hearts voted for the tv deal knowing the tv companies could choose date and time of fixtures 

 

People can disagree with their own club's decisions. Nothing wrong with that.

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kila
10 minutes ago, redm said:

Is there a really obvious reason that I've missed for them not scheduling this game for the Saturday lunchtime or even the Friday night?

 

We play Celtic on the Wed. Sounds like it is a written contract one game has to be played on the Monday.

 

Well done Doncaster.

 

 

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Guess The Crowd
14 minutes ago, redm said:

Is there a really obvious reason that I've missed for them not scheduling this game for the Saturday lunchtime or even the Friday night?

 

My thoughts too. If it’s on the new BBC channel (as I understand) why wouldn’t Friday night in particular be a good option? Edit - just seen reply above. 

Edited by Guess The Crowd

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Dino Velvet

Plenty of hearts fans like myself don't work 9-5 so I'll be there no problem . Sorry if that seems selfish. 

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Sir Gio
3 minutes ago, kila said:

 

We play Celtic on the Wed. Sounds like it is a written contract one game has to be played on the Monday.

 

Well done Doncaster.

 

 

The silver lining is extra recovery time for the team which will help us a good deal. 

Push the kick off back to a normal hour is the right thing to do. 

Irony could yet be a delayed kick off due to crowd congestion 

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Phil Dunphy
2 minutes ago, Dino Velvet said:

Plenty of hearts fans like myself don't work 9-5 so I'll be there no problem . Sorry if that seems selfish. 

 

Plenty who do work 9-5, but have flexi time. 

 

:smuggy:

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August Landmesser
16 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

There's nothing to protest against ! The club's including hearts voted for the tv deal knowing the tv companies could choose date and time of fixtures 

That's what we'd be protesting - TV schedules getting priority over fans who want to attend the game

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August Landmesser

A piece about the Bundesliga protests against Monday night football, 2018;

 

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/bundesliga-fan-protests-monday-night-football-montagsspiele/

 

"How German fans made the Bundesliga cancel Monday night games – and what it tells us about protest in football

 

After a season of co-ordinated protests against ‘Montagsspiele’, German supporters have proved that fans have the power to change the game

 

There are many things German football fans have protested in recent years: rising ticket prices, excessive commercialisation of the game, corporate avarice, the constant threat to the ‘50+1’ rule. Wherever the parasitic greed which feeds off football rears its ugly head, you can be sure that German fans will be there to shout it down. As fans in England have been reminded in recent weeks, what with Der Spiegel on Manchester City, Richard Scudamore’s golden handshake, the PFA rebellion against Gordon Taylor’s grotesque salary (among other things) and mooted changes to every competition under the sun driven by blatant self-interest, there is much about the business of football – if not the game itself – not to like, let alone tolerate obligingly. In Germany, there is at least one thing which has been ticked off the long list of football’s iniquities this week: Monday night football, much-hated by matchday supporters and the Bundesliga’s most dedicated fan groups. While MNF has long been a feature of the English game – something which has faded into the background of the collective psyche, even if Monday night games have become noticeably more frequent as broadcasters have ratcheted up the battle for television rights and fixture saturation has increased – it was introduced to Germany relatively recently. Five Monday evening matches were introduced to the Bundesliga last season, ostensibly to ease fixture congestion for clubs participating in Europe but, as far as many supporters were concerned, really to further the interests of television companies at the expense of the average matchgoing fan.

Complaints among supporters included the disruption caused to their working week, the need to travel at unsociable hours and the general inconvenience of Monday night fixtures. In response to the introduction of ‘Montagsspiele’, last season was marked by a series of colourful and coordinated protests whenever Monday night games were scheduled. Eintracht Frankfurt fans lobbed tennis balls onto the pitch during a Monday night clash with RB Leipzig, Borussia Dortmund fans comprehensively boycotted their match against Augsburg, while others expressed their anger through tifos, banners, prolonged spells of eerie silence and, conversely, shrill whistling intended to spoil the television viewing experience. Now, it seems the German Football Association (DFB) have relented in the face of determined opposition. It was announced earlier this week that Monday night football will be discontinued in the Bundesliga when the next media rights deal is negotiated, in other words from the 2021-22 season onwards. It’s not everything fans wanted, with some pledging to continue their protests as long as Monday night games remain a part of the domestic calendar. It is definitive proof, however, that fan power can change things for the better.

When it comes to the Premier League, fan-led protests have met with mixed success. The sporadic demonstrations against Stan Kroenke at Arsenal (unhelpfully conflated with the ‘Wenger Out’ movement up until this season); Newcastle fans’ long-running ‘Ashley Out’ campaign; the pitch invasions and marches targeting Davids Gold and Sullivan last season which sputtered out after grand promises – a devalued currency at West Ham – were made to the organisers. Certainly club-specific protests without broad cooperation among supporters have generally failed and dissipated away.

The home-laminated A4 protest sign has become a staple of Premier League grounds during these flare-ups, a visual metaphor for the vague naffness of it all. Compared to the protests against ‘Montagsspiele’, the majority of Premier League demos have lacked imagination, duration and the requisite stubbornness. In fairness, it doesn’t require a trip to Germany to see how much commitment is required to make the message behind a protest stick. Fans at Blackpool and Charlton have been demonstrating against their inept owners for several years, using colourful tactics similar to those favoured in the Bundesliga. While neither the Oystons nor Roland Duchatelet have yet been forced out of their respective clubs – Charlton are at least in the midst of a protracted takeover process – both have been shaken by organised and focused fan dissent in a way which Kroenke, Mike Ashley and the men once dubbed “the Dildo Brothers” have not.  Where Blackpool and Charlton supporters have made alliances with other fanbases – with fans from other distressed clubs joining them for demos and vice versa – club-specific protest movements in the top flight have tended to remain self-contained. Indeed, there often seems to be less sympathy for disgruntled Premier League fan groups, with the examples of Blackpool, Charlton and so on often used to make the point (fairly or otherwise) that things could be a lot worse.

When Premier League fans have had more success with protests, it is usually because they have focused on issues which cut through club allegiances. In 2013, supporters of Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham marched to the headquarters of the Premier League to demand lower ticket prices, a move which saw Richard Scudamore meet with fan representatives.  That was backed up by numerous protests at away ticket prices including the ‘Twenty’s Plenty’ campaign run by the Football Supporters’ Federation and then, in 2016, a walkout by Liverpool supporters at Anfield led by the Spirit of Shankly fan group in protest at proposed price hikes. Not only were the Liverpool price rises cancelled, the club apologised. Many clubs have now frozen ticket prices (though not all) and away tickets have been capped at a compromise of £30.  While Monday night football is seen as a fairly benign aspect of English football, there are still numerous issues which have the potential to unite supporters. Anger at Premier League schedule changes which suit television companies but leave away fans out of pocket for their travel and accommodation The widespread desire for safe standing The need for fan representatives at board level The general cost of matchday which, despite some positive developments on ticket pricing, remains extremely high What Germany tells us about fan power This brings us back to the protests against ‘Montagsspiele’ and what they tell us about fan power. For supporters to get their voices heard they must be prepared to protest not once or twice a season, but over and over again until the situation is resolved in their favour. On top of that fans have to be strategic, creative and prepared to make genuine sacrifices, whether that means walkouts, well observed boycotts or (lawful) demonstrations which disrupt match atmosphere: all tactics which worked against ‘Montagsspiele’ just as they worked against spiralling ticket prices. Most importantly, fans must be able to make common ground and find aims and objectives which transcend rivalries and club colours. Managerial performance, transfer spending and recruitment at any one club are ultimately trivial concerns when looking at the bigger picture, all easily dismissed as first-world problems especially when it comes to Premier League sides. In the face of a game which suffers from a widening disconnect with its fans – which needs more democracy and transparency where it really matters – supporters need to fight the right battles. Notably, no battle was ever won with a few laminated A4 protest signs."

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jamboman9
1 minute ago, August Landmesser said:

That's what we'd be protesting - TV schedules getting priority over fans who want to attend the game

Indeed,lets not forget the kick off time is purely to accommodate a flagship news programme on a new BBC channel.          

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OmiyaHearts

We'll sell out the allocation, so would that not make the protest a bit pointless?

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August Landmesser
2 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said:

We'll sell out the allocation, so would that not make the protest a bit pointless?

The point is that we want to see the game, we want to be there, but just not at 7pm on a Monday night. A pitch covered in tennis balls would result in a delayed kick-off, attention for the issue, and inconvenience to the TV company. Once the pitch was cleared, we'd get on with supporting the team.

 

It needn't be tennis balls; it could be a mass delayed entry to the ground, or blowing whistles throughout the match, but tennis balls I think would be minimum hassle for the fans, and maximum hassle for the TV

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Mr Elwood P
40 minutes ago, redm said:

Is there a really obvious reason that I've missed for them not scheduling this game for the Saturday lunchtime or even the Friday night?

 

Saturday lunchtime would clash with Spurs v Arsenal and we play on Wednesday against Celtic so Friday is out.

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Dunks
47 minutes ago, redm said:

Is there a really obvious reason that I've missed for them not scheduling this game for the Saturday lunchtime or even the Friday night?

 

BBC already showing a game on the Friday. No idea about the Saturday lunchtime though ....

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Dunks

Out of interest, what was the mass protest like at the Ross County v ICT match played last Monday night?

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August Landmesser
Just now, Dunks said:

Out of interest, what was the mass protest like at the Ross County v ICT match played last Monday night?

Judging from the attendance, it took the form of a boycott!

But seriously, there was some grumbling about the KO time but I'm not sure how much actual protesting there was.

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richiehmfc

I completely agree there should be a protest of sorts. This is a case of the authorities (including the clubs) screwing over the fans again. 

As with any protest or strike you need to be united behind it though. I will still go but to me its about the disregard of the average fan that is happening more and more. You could even argue it would be different if the TV deal was pumping millions into the game but this specific one with the BBC and premier sports is a pittance. A sold out stadium would have made more clubs more.

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richiehmfc
6 minutes ago, Dunks said:

Out of interest, what was the mass protest like at the Ross County v ICT match played last Monday night?

there was a drop of 3000 in the crowd from the last two derby games. 

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Morph

I don't see a problem with a banner or something, but would be against fans boycotting the game.

 

I won't be able to make it due to finishing at 6 anyway but i hope as many people who can go do make it rather than staying in edinburgh to make a point.

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Irufushi

Protest 😂

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Maroonjam
5 minutes ago, Morph said:

I don't see a problem with a banner or something, but would be against fans boycotting the game.

 

I won't be able to make it due to finishing at 6 anyway but i hope as many people who can go do make it rather than staying in edinburgh to make a point.

Agree. Fans need to turn up but think the tennis balls is better than a banner as this would delay kick off. Shit for the players having to warm up etc but would make news in other countries and not just Scotland in terms of delaying kick off in protest. 

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frankblack

Utterly pointless.  The SFA aren't interested in Hearts or Partick, its all about TV money and sponsorship deals to them.

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Rudolf
1 minute ago, frankblack said:

Utterly pointless.  The SFA aren't interested in Hearts or Partick, its all about TV money and sponsorship deals to them.

Hearts and Partick share the money do they not?

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milky_26

midweek games are a common feature of the game now. So why is there no protest about the celtic midweek game the week before? The only thing i can say is the KO should be 7.45 or 8.00 as that seems a standard time for midweek games.

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frankblack
4 minutes ago, Rudolf said:

Hearts and Partick share the money do they not?

 

And the SFA get their cut too.

 

Protest will achieve **** all.  They don't give a shit.

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Bob Loblaw

Don't understand why people mock the idea of a protest.  Fans protest in Greece.  Fans protest in Germany.  Fans protest in Spain and Italy.  Yet in Scotland we sit back and do nowt all the while moaning about how the fans are ignored.  You can't be ignored if you don't say anything.

Edited by Bob Loblaw

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sjh1874

Thousands of tennis balls and a loud chorus on repeat of  "f  k the SFA" would suffice to show Dungcasters live broadcast exactly what we think. Stagger the ball chucking for maximum effect/clearance effort.

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Dunks
26 minutes ago, richiehmfc said:

there was a drop of 3000 in the crowd from the last two derby games. 

 

Had a look - around 3,500 down from previous two derbies in Dingwall. Pretty damning statistic I'd suggest.

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August Landmesser
2 minutes ago, sjh1874 said:

Thousands of tennis balls and a loud chorus on repeat of  "f  k the SFA" would suffice to show Dungcasters live broadcast exactly what we think. Stagger the ball chucking for maximum effect/clearance effort.

Yep - something like just before kick-off when the teams are in position, then at 7.45 (proper kick-off time), and sometime in the second half

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colinmaroon
1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

There's nothing to protest against ! The club's including hearts voted for the tv deal knowing the tv companies could choose date and time of fixtures 

 

AH, the good old forehead knuckle from the subservient serf ploy!

 

 

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eyesandears
21 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Utterly pointless.  The SFA aren't interested in Hearts or Partick, its all about TV money and sponsorship deals to them.

 

You get it. And always remembering we the clubs are the SFA including Hearts which voted for this.

 

5 minutes ago, sjh1874 said:

Thousands of tennis balls and a loud chorus on repeat of  "f  k the SFA" would suffice to show Dungcasters live broadcast exactly what we think. Stagger the ball chucking for maximum effect/clearance effort.

 

It's got nothing to do with Doncaster. It's the SFA which is Ian Maxwell the former Partick Chief Exec as it happens. 

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AGoodLaugh
18 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

midweek games are a common feature of the game now. So why is there no protest about the celtic midweek game the week before? The only thing i can say is the KO should be 7.45 or 8.00 as that seems a standard time for midweek games.

The fact it's at 7:05 and is a quarter final in our main domestic trophy are what set it apart I'd say 

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colinmaroon
16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

And the SFA get their cut too.

 

Protest will achieve **** all.  They don't give a shit.

 

Aye!  History proves that protests have never achieved anything!!!

 

You'd still have been down the mines at the age of ten if everybody took that attitude.

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jamboman9
9 minutes ago, sjh1874 said:

Thousands of tennis balls and a loud chorus on repeat of  "f  k the SFA" would suffice to show Dungcasters live broadcast exactly what we think. Stagger the ball chucking for maximum effect/clearance effort.

Don't forget **** the BBC

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graygo
42 minutes ago, Dunks said:

Out of interest, what was the mass protest like at the Ross County v ICT match played last Monday night?

 

To be fair it's a bit easier to get from Inverness to Dingwall at that time than it is for the vast majority of Hearts supporters to get to Maryhill.

 

I'm still undecided whether I can be arsed.

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sjh1874
1 minute ago, eyesandears said:

 

You get it. And always remembering we the clubs are the SFA including Hearts which voted for this.

 

 

It's got nothing to do with Doncaster. It's the SFA which is Ian Maxwell the former Partick Chief Exec as it happens. 

 

So Ian Maxwell signed the TV deal with BT then?

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Thommo414

How many people on this thread would be up in arms if we were at home?

 

It's not ideal and yes, dare we even call it "a bit shit" but protesting? People protest against racial inequality, people protest against wars. 

 

Protesting against a game of football on a Monday night though? 

Edited by Thommo414

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Dunks
6 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

To be fair it's a bit easier to get from Inverness to Dingwall at that time than it is for the vast majority of Hearts supporters to get to Maryhill.

 

I'm still undecided whether I can be arsed.

 

Agreed and still the crowd was down 3,500. 

 

Imagine if it was Ross County/ICT v Hearts on the Monday night :ninja:

 

I happen to be working in Glasgow on the Monday, so it's fine for me. Means I can't take the boy though - he's gutted :(

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eyesandears
3 minutes ago, sjh1874 said:

 

So Ian Maxwell signed the TV deal with BT then?

He will have signed the deal on behalf of the Scottish FA in his new role at the SFA, yes. This deal (if i'm right) includes Sky, Premier Sports and the BBC. So he and the SFA commercial guys will have known the liklelihood of these kick-off times and slots. They have taken the money for this deal based on their members (our clubs and others from highlands, lowlands etc) saying yes to the combined money. Ironically again the clubs voted last year to reduce the individual TV money each live team received from £82,500 to £32,500 each and increase the prize pool so that teams that progressed got a little more than those that get knocked out. It is designed to take awau the "lottery win" of being picked for TV that some smaller clubs got especially if they played the Glasgow duo.

Sorry, long winded answer to your simple question.  

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blairdin

I'm still hoping to get to Firhill, but a standard 7:45 kick off really would have made the difference here. 

 

We'll take 2,000 through, but I'd wager a bet there will be travelling supporters who rarely miss a match that will miss this one if they work till 5pm.

 

I'd be delighted to lob a tennis ball on to the park at 7:05 to make their point, and would hope the travelling support who can be there do likewise. 

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