Section Q Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Sad situation. Bullied by America for years and now being starved to death. Highest oil reserves on the planet, several active gold mines and all banned from trading by Trump, and now primed for US takeover.......Sounds familiar...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Section Q said: Sad situation. Bullied by America for years and now being starved to death. Highest oil reserves on the planet, several active gold mines and all banned from trading by Trump, and now primed for US takeover.......Sounds familiar...? The US shouldn't be doing what they're doing but Venezuela has been a disaster zone under the current regime. That's not even a political view - they have absolutely wrecked the country's infrastructure and finances. It's all well and good throwing grenades now that Trump is acting like a dick but it's rather missing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 That's a very shallow view my fellow jambo, and all depends where you start the story. Ostracized for years because they dared to vote in a left wing govt. Not easy to sell your wares when you're hit with a trade embargo. America has been winding them down for years and when they hit the road looking for a better life Trump plans to build a wall and tells them to go home. The Yanks weren't game to take on Chavez but they bide their time like they did in Chile with Allende. As mentioned.....sad stuff...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 We want sanctions applied by the EU. I wonder why we don't just apply them ourselves. Who needs the EU? https://sputniknews.com/latam/201901311071992554-uk-venezuela-maduro-sanctions/ Craig Murray has an observation or two. https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/01/the-vultures-of-caracas/ Still it must be comforting for the Venezuelan poor to know that our government is taking such an interest in their wellbeing and respecting their democracy by recognising somebody who never even took part in the elections as being their legitimate president. They will do well to avoid a Civil War if the U.K. and the U.S.A. are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Failed socialist state that has impoverished its own people. And to make it worse, Dianne Abbott supports them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Failed socialist state that has impoverished its own people. And to make it worse, Dianne Abbott supports them. Let's see how rich we are come April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Let's see how rich we are come April. Totally agree. Though I suspect that the rich will get richer, the poor will stay poor, We need a "Scottish backstop" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just now, doctor jambo said: Totally agree. Though I suspect that the rich will get richer, the poor will stay poor, We need a "Scottish backstop" I actually agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I was there in 2005 and found it a startlingly odd country. The rich / poor gap was astonishing and any country where a litre of water is a lot more expensive than a litre of petrol is doing something really wrong. Will always remember visiting a tourist / rich person mall, about the size of the Livi centre but with about 1% of the shoppers. You could use mobility scooters if you couldn’t be bothered walking. I look across the vast empty car park and could see the supermarket for the “normal” Venezuelans, when I asked if it was ok to go there our guide looked aghast and refused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Chavez fecked it up. Should have put 50% of the oil money into a national fund like the Norwegians did, used 25% to build new industries and the other 25% on social programmes but instead he splurged it all too fast. Then the oil price crashed and the brown stuff hit the fan. Without any other diverse industries to fall back on, Venezuela was doomed. Maduro is a tin pot wannabe dictator and should never have gotten his hands on power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 There's oil in Venezuela. The USA (and no doubt its wee lapdog) are trying to change its government. Who'da thunk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 One of the highlights of the South Africa World Cup to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Blaming the US for Venezuela’s current problems is pretty laughable. Biggest, most dangerous shithole I’ve ever been to. Been a number of times. Amazing location, and Caracas one of the most geographically stunning cities I’ve been to. Arguably more oil than any country (apart from perhaps the US itself...). Chavez was well intentioned, but ultimately left the country a complete mess. The mess in a Venezuela is ultimately of their own making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb102 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Do they have WMD's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Just because the USA has spent the last 70 years undermining and overthrowing governments and interfering in Central and South American politics, usually with CIA covert ops, does not mean they're doing it again in Venezuela right now....... Or does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Cade said: Just because the USA has spent the last 70 years undermining and overthrowing governments and interfering in Central and South American politics, usually with CIA covert ops, does not mean they're doing it again in Venezuela right now....... Or does it? We don't know the half of it. The US makes the Russians look backward when it come to controlling their own backyard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 hours ago, ri Alban said: There's oil in Venezuela. The USA (and no doubt its wee lapdog) are trying to change its government. Who'da thunk it. And some very good rums as well, they can have the oil, just leave my fecking rum alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Peebo said: Blaming the US for Venezuela’s current problems is pretty laughable. Biggest, most dangerous shithole I’ve ever been to. Been a number of times. Amazing location, and Caracas one of the most geographically stunning cities I’ve been to. Arguably more oil than any country (apart from perhaps the US itself...). Chavez was well intentioned, but ultimately left the country a complete mess. The mess in a Venezuela is ultimately of their own making. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: And some very good rums as well, they can have the oil, just leave my fecking rum alone. Mmmmm, Diplomatico Reserva. Yum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 12 hours ago, Section Q said: Sad situation. Bullied by America for years and now being starved to death. Highest oil reserves on the planet, several active gold mines and all banned from trading by Trump, and now primed for US takeover.......Sounds familiar...? If there is a single reason why American has thrown its weight around, it's to impose socialism. That's what's happened here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, Section Q said: ? What’s so funny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Gorgiewave said: If there is a single reason why American has thrown its weight around, it's to impose socialism. That's what's happened here. America to impose socialism...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Peebo said: What’s so funny? You seem to be saying Venezuela caused all this by themselves and if that's right then it's laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T.F.Robertson Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 32 minutes ago, Section Q said: You seem to be saying Venezuela caused all this by themselves and if that's right then it's laughable. Cuba also being the architect of it's own misfortune. Yes, all down to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 10 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: And some very good rums as well, they can have the oil, just leave my fecking rum alone. Where can I purchase said Rums? Venezuela, obviously, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 6 hours ago, Section Q said: You seem to be saying Venezuela caused all this by themselves and if that's right then it's laughable. I didn’t say all of it, but the path to the current situation was set by, and travelled down, by themselves. As said, Chavez had a lot of understandable support from the masses (he won a mandate from the Venezuelan people a number of times), but ultimately he led the country to utter ruin. The place has been an absolute mess for years, and international intervention is long overdue. The idea that the US is now taken over the country for its oil reserves is predictable, but totally naive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 38 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Where can I purchase said Rums? Venezuela, obviously, but... Drinkmonger in bruntsfield sells Diplimatico. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Peebo said: Drinkmonger in bruntsfield sells Diplimatico. ? I was hoping you'd say Tesco or Asda . I'd be quicker flying to Venezuela or chapping Corbyn's door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, ri Alban said: ? I was hoping you'd say Tesco or Asda . I'd be quicker flying to Venezuela or chapping Corbyn's door. There’s also a little known website called Amazon that sells it. You can find it on this thing called “the internet”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, Peebo said: There’s also a little known website called Amazon that sells it. You can find it on this thing called “the internet”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: Where can I purchase said Rums? Venezuela, obviously, but... The internet, there are various alcohol shops, just google it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: The internet, there are various alcohol shops, just google it. What!?!?!?, JKB isn't on the internet. I'm sure I googled it. Silly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 14 hours ago, Section Q said: America to impose socialism...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 23 hours ago, Peebo said: Blaming the US for Venezuela’s current problems is pretty laughable. Biggest, most dangerous shithole I’ve ever been to. Been a number of times. Amazing location, and Caracas one of the most geographically stunning cities I’ve been to. Arguably more oil than any country (apart from perhaps the US itself...). Chavez was well intentioned, but ultimately left the country a complete mess. The mess in a Venezuela is ultimately of their own making. Careful, your getting facts in the way of the usual blame it on the US/Trump, when corrupt/useless Gov's screw things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab87 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Guaidó now making moves it would seem. Coup underway. How it pans out, is anyone's idea. Once you commit however, there isn't much way back.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, Rab87 said: Guaidó now making moves it would seem. Coup underway. How it pans out, is anyone's idea. Once you commit however, there isn't much way back.... You come at the king, you best not miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Economy trashed by socialist numpties. Not surprised people have had enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Economy trashed by socialist numpties. Not surprised people have had enough. As opposed to capitalist numpties. I'm surprised this place hasn't been set on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, ri Alban said: As opposed to capitalist numpties. I'm surprised this place hasn't been set on fire. Especially by you McGlashan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, ri Alban said: As opposed to capitalist numpties. I'm surprised this place hasn't been set on fire. ‘Capitalist numpties’ haven’t ran many countries so far into the ground that women have had to sell their hair to buy basic essentials though. Maduro is an inept dictator, it’s not a case of socialism or capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said: ‘Capitalist numpties’ haven’t ran many countries so far into the ground that women have had to sell their hair to buy basic essentials though. Maduro is an inept dictator, it’s not a case of socialism or capitalism. Quite, the issues with re-distributive policy is that everything is spread so thin everyone has nothing. And many don't know what to do with what they are given + those more capable end up P'd off that what they earned has been taken off them. UK has a not bad balance- 45 % top rate + 1% NI = the government taking near enough half of what you earn ( obviously when VAT+council tax+road fun license and all the rest are added its above that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Quite, the issues with re-distributive policy is that everything is spread so thin everyone has nothing. And many don't know what to do with what they are given + those more capable end up P'd off that what they earned has been taken off them. UK has a not bad balance- 45 % top rate + 1% NI = the government taking near enough half of what you earn ( obviously when VAT+council tax+road fun license and all the rest are added its above that) To call it a “redistributive policy” implies there is some actual genuine ‘socislism’ involves, there isn’t. It’s an oppressive dictatorship throwing out sound bites to justify itself and distract. 90% of Venezuela lives in poverty while it’s military is well armed and well paid, its people are starving while Maduro travels the world to eat steak with ‘Salt Bae’. Redistributing high oil revenues(which should exist if not for inept economic policies) to pay for it subsidise housing, education, medical expenses etc (while still maintaining enough to reinvest and sustain the revenues) is a ‘socialist’ policy. Spunking billions on guns and general corruption is no more ‘socialist’ than any other dictator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said: To call it a “redistributive policy” implies there is some actual genuine ‘socislism’ involves, there isn’t. It’s an oppressive dictatorship throwing out sound bites to justify itself and distract. 90% of Venezuela lives in poverty while it’s military is well armed and well paid, its people are starving while Maduro travels the world to eat steak with ‘Salt Bae’. Redistributing high oil revenues(which should exist if not for inept economic policies) to pay for it subsidise housing, education, medical expenses etc (while still maintaining enough to reinvest and sustain the revenues) is a ‘socialist’ policy. Spunking billions on guns and general corruption is no more ‘socialist’ than any other dictator. To be fair, the Chavez regime largely followed the socialist policy you mention (plus a decent wedge of corruption, mind!), setting the scene for the current, and inevitable, disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Peebo said: To be fair, the Chavez regime largely followed the socialist policy you mention (plus a decent wedge of corruption, mind!), setting the scene for the current, and inevitable, disaster. Partially, even Chavez failed to invest anything in their decrepit infrastructure and energy network though. Or even just basic upkeep of its ability to ‘produce’ barrels of oil and maintain that social spending long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said: Partially, even Chavez failed to invest anything in their decrepit infrastructure and energy network though. Or even just basic upkeep of its ability to ‘produce’ barrels of oil and maintain that social spending long term. The old, throw bread to the plebs trick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 46 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said: Partially, even Chavez failed to invest anything in their decrepit infrastructure and energy network though. Or even just basic upkeep of its ability to ‘produce’ barrels of oil and maintain that social spending long term. Yeah. He was a complex character. A good guy at heart, and some admirable truly socialist policies for which he was widely loved by the poor. But when you have the NOC (PdVSA) involves in bread distribution, while oil production dwindles despite having the largest reserves in the world, there is something truly rotten at the core. Maduro didn’t stand a chance...but has managed to make the place even more of an utter disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 It seems as long as I can remember South America has had riots, demonstrations and coups. It almost seems that it is just a way of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, bobsharp said: It seems as long as I can remember South America has had riots, demonstrations and coups. It almost seems that it is just a way of life. In recent years, most coups seemed to have happened in Africa. The last coup attempt I can recall in South America was early last decade, in Venezuela. Lots of riots and demos all over the world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ibrahim Tall said: ‘Capitalist numpties’ haven’t ran many countries so far into the ground that women have had to sell their hair to buy basic essentials though. Maduro is an inept dictator, it’s not a case of socialism or capitalism. I'm pretty sure 2008 fecked everyone up. It hasn't been the same since, but hey, the national debt is nothing, eh? Long live capitalism! Edited April 30, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 39 minutes ago, bobsharp said: It seems as long as I can remember South America has had riots, demonstrations and coups. It almost seems that it is just a way of life. Divide and rule Bob. It's no accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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