Where is the line?

[Phil Dunphy]

I'm gonna start this thread by saying this isn't a 'Levein Out' thread. I'm just curious to know where people believe the line is before it's a genuine concern for the club.

 

We're now on a run of one win in 10 games. Having scored two goals in those games (albeit we had about 3 wrongfully chalked off) and we're just off the back of a 5-0 hiding by a team that's just come up. We've conceded 20 goals since winning 3-0 away at Dundee and we're now in danger of slipping into the bottom 6 by the end of the first half of the season (after having been top for 3 months). The players aren't performing, they look completely bereft of confidence and some look dreadfully out of their depth.

 

So, where is the line? Where is the point where we look to bring in a new manager? There's a hell of a lot of clubs who'd have pulled the trigger on a manager with that recent run of results out there.

[Ron Burgundy]

Lose to hubs at the piggery and he can **** off. 

With Levein it’s only about hibs as far as I am concerned because I 100% believe he will never win a thing in football   Just beat them and finish above them. 

Not the highest of aspirations but I’m being realistic.

[Ministry of Football]

Crossed... 

[John mcCartney]

he has to be contemplating his future this morning surely
ive been watching him all season and he has the air of a man thats simply getting on abit and losing the vigour that
a manager should have in a position of a club like hearts fc.its a fact of life that we change as we get on in life,however
the club simply cannot afford to continue like this.....the facts are there in black and white ,under his stewardship the past few seasons have been an unmitigated disaster.bad decisions,lack of energy around the place

time to go

[jbee647]

Anne Budge will not sack Craig Levein, that’s not necessarily a criticism of AB, but she is heavily reliant of him at the club, he is by far and away the head man at Heart of Midlothian FC

Anne Budge is not a football person 

[Nookie Bear]

Zero points from our next two and he can go, as far as im concerned. 

[Jambof3tornado]

He will get the whole season. Lets see what happens when we get the key players back and dont have to rely on bench warmers as starters. When we lost Uche then naismith I knew we'd struggle but just had to somehow cling on. 

 

That said, the line will be crossed if the players perform like they did last night in the derby match. There will be no coming back.

[Spellczech]

Changing managers is pointless unless you are likely to get a better manager in. I cannot think of a better manager that we can realistically get in.

[suds66]

3 minutes ago, John mcCartney said:

he has to be contemplating his future this morning surely
ive been watching him all season and he has the air of a man thats simply getting on abit and losing the vigour that
a manager should have in a position of a club like hearts fc.its a fact of life that we change as we get on in life,however
the club simply cannot afford to continue like this.....the facts are there in black and white ,under his stewardship the past few seasons have been an unmitigated disaster.bad decisions,lack of energy around the place

time to go

Unfortunately as many have said, he has the safest job in British football. If there is a change in the future it will be from within, that's what concerns me. The whole football department needs surgery.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

He isn't leaving before the end of the season. 

If ever. 

I'd be more concerned about the pea hearts last night. If Leveins mellowed he needs to rediscover his wrath this week. 

Not certain that even works these days. 

4 games left in this block. 2 at home to relegation battle and 2 away to rivals. 

7 points would not be terrible. 

If Naismith coming back in does not improve things then the fast start begins to look flash in the pan 

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

For a bit of balance probably fair to mention he has had serious health problems and an incredibly bad run of decisions. 

 

Too easy to jump in these circumstances 

[peebles jambo]

23 minutes ago, Ministry of Football said:

Crossed... 

Well and truly, should be no wages paid that lot for last night

[Top Corner]

I'm not sure what the answer is, but ask yourself this,

If budge wasn't the owner and Craig Levein didn't have that sort of relationship with the owners, would he be gone by now?

Edited December 15, 2018 by Top Corner

[karipidis]

5-0 against Livingston crosses the line. Time to go. 

[amadjambo]

29 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Lose to hubs at the piggery and he can **** off. 

With Levein it’s only about hibs as far as I am concerned because I 100% believe he will never win a thing in football   Just beat them and finish above them. 

Not the highest of aspirations but I’m being realistic.

This Hearts team is more than capable of repeating last night’s performance in the Derby. Bunch of imposters and cowards. Our only hope is that Naismith will be back and can somehow turn it around.

[The Internet]

Yet another defeat at hibs would do it for me. Although losing to hamilton at home would be quite grim. 

[Sarah O]

Now is the time, now is the hour. Bye Craig.

[Top Corner]

How long would a Rangers or Celtic manager last after that result?

[gashauskis9]

Pre Naismith injury - league winning form

Post Naismith injury - relegation form

 

For an experienced manager this is far too volatile and as much as I love and trust Craig, I struggle to see the same consistency as we were always use to in his first spell.  We can’t use the numerous injuries as an excuse, when clearly only one injury has affected our form so drastically.  

 

Hindsight is wonderful to have.  I genuinely believe that Naismith picked up the injury against Aberdeen, but Craig decided to take the risk against Dundee and Celtic.  On reflection, we should have rested him against Dundee to protect him and potentially limited the impact.

 

I won’t call for his head, I’m in this for the long run, but don’t blame others who do.  Results speak volumes and any other manager on this form would be in the firing line.

 

[jambogaza]

For me, 3 points or less before January is completely unacceptable and worthy of considering the roles of the management team. We need something from pittodrie and/or Easter road., to satisfy me.

[Gambo]

Look back at the last 9 games and you could probably count on both hands the amount of times we seriously troubled the opposition defence. 

 

I think we are well over that line.

 

Yet we still have a few who are not concerned as we were top, still top 6 and not got our best 11 every game, it is this attitude that breeds results like last night.

[amadjambo]

2 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

For me, 3 points or less before January is completely unacceptable and worthy of considering the roles of the management team. We need something from pittodrie and/or Easter road., to satisfy me.

3 points from Hamilton, Aberdeen and Hibs would be shocking. Probably the very most we will get though.

[jack D and coke]

After sleeping on it I think the games before the break take on massive importance. We’ve looked seriously jaded for weeks and last night was as bad as anything I’ve watched for years. I laughed at the 5th going in but it was an excruciating spell as our arse caved in. If we only beat Hamilton in this spell and continue to play this eye bleeding style it’s over Craig. I appreciate he’s a big jambo but it’s not enough anymore. 

Mrs Budge has her biggest couple of weeks approaching also. 

[Cruyff Turn]

A lot of home truths from the OP.

 

I’m expecting first of all a reaction v Aberdeen. If that isn’t forthcoming and we get majorly humped again, then we have serious issues. 

 

Despite the results and performances of the last 9 games, we’re incredibly still 4th so there is a stay of execution at the moment and for me he has the chance to turn it around.

 

Defeats by Aberdeen and Hibs, and anything but a resounding 3 points v Hamilton and I think a lot of folks lines will have been crossed. 

[Pants Shaton]

47 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Anne Budge will not sack Craig Levein, that’s not necessarily a criticism of AB, but she is heavily reliant of him at the club, he is by far and away the head man at Heart of Midlothian FC

Anne Budge is not a football person 

 

I love the Ann Budge is not a football person line.

 

Like the owner of some two-bit catering company / bank / haulage firm/ construction company / steelworks / hotel chain etc. etc.  (i.e. the type of MEN who own other football clubs) are somehow expert in the world of football.  As opposed to just being another arrogant **** with an inflated sense of their own football opinions (bit like almost all of us on here).  

 

Craig Levein is staying for some time. He WILL win a major honour with us (bookmark this).  

 

I'm pissed off about last night but shit like that happens (even Celtic got thrashed by a club with 1/10th their budget last year).  I'm also pissed off that I pay my Hearts TV sub but the club seem to have gone into hiding as far as a post-match interview is concerned.  

[bringonthesevco]

12 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Pre Naismith injury - league winning form

Post Naismith injury - relegation form

 

For an experienced manager this is far too volatile and as much as I love and trust Craig, I struggle to see the same consistency as we were always use to in his first spell.  We can’t use the numerous injuries as an excuse, when clearly only one injury has affected our form so drastically.  

 

Hindsight is wonderful to have.  I genuinely believe that Naismith picked up the injury against Aberdeen, but Craig decided to take the risk against Dundee and Celtic.  On reflection, we should have rested him against Dundee to protect him and potentially limited the impact.

 

I won’t call for his head, I’m in this for the long run, but don’t blame others who do.  Results speak volumes and any other manager on this form would be in the firing line.

 

I know the Naismith factor is significant but my reckoning Craig signed at least 7 of the starting line-up last night and virtually all of the substitutes so to not be able to put out a team that can compete is horrendous ...

 

he also signed a ton of midfield / wide players in the summer none of who seem capable of stringing a couple of passes together .

 

Shocking position to be in , is that 1 win in 10 now and people on here are still calling anyone with a negative opinion “pantwetters with a kneejerk reaction”...

[Famous 1874]

No win at Easter Road then it is probably over for the majority of fans 

[The Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, Pants Shaton said:

 

I love the Ann Budge is not a football person line.

 

Like the owner of some two-bit catering company / bank / haulage firm/ construction company / steelworks / hotel chain etc. etc.  (i.e. the type of MEN who own other football clubs) are somehow expert in the world of football.  As opposed to just being another arrogant **** with an inflated sense of their own football opinions (bit like almost all of us on here).  

 

Craig Levein is staying for some time. He WILL win a major honour with us (bookmark this).  

 

I'm pissed off about last night but shit like that happens (even Celtic got thrashed by a club with 1/10th their budget last year).  I'm also pissed off that I pay my Hearts TV sub but the club seem to have gone into hiding as far as a post-match interview is concerned.  

That last bit. Celtic went onto win the treble i doubt they really give **** about that result in the grand scheme of things. This result hurts us far more than that result ever hurt celtic

[cjw87]

Our form has been abysmal and last night was an embarrassment, but we have had absolutely no luck over the last 2 months. Injuries, dodgy refereeing decisions and perfectly good goals chalked off. If even a couple of those decisions had gone our way we would be sitting top of the league. Even the best of teams have poor spells but still pick up points by riding a bit of luck.

 

If we are still playing this bad when we have our best players back then I will be worried, but to call for levein's head this now is madness.

[Top Corner]

He’s also wasted money on players like,

mulraney

Wighton

Burns

Edwards

Amankwaa

 

to name but a few

 

[Gambo]

9 minutes ago, Pants Shaton said:

 

I love the Ann Budge is not a football person line.

 

Like the owner of some two-bit catering company / bank / haulage firm/ construction company / steelworks / hotel chain etc. etc.  (i.e. the type of MEN who own other football clubs) are somehow expert in the world of football.  As opposed to just being another arrogant **** with an inflated sense of their own football opinions (bit like almost all of us on here).  

 

Craig Levein is staying for some time. He WILL win a major honour with us (bookmark this).  

 

I'm pissed off about last night but shit like that happens (even Celtic got thrashed by a club with 1/10th their budget last year).  I'm also pissed off that I pay my Hearts TV sub but the club seem to have gone into hiding as far as a post-match interview is concerned.  

How did Celtic play in the 8 games prior to that result?

[Morlich]

55 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Changing managers is pointless unless you are likely to get a better manager in. I cannot think of a better manager that we can realistically get in.

Me neither. I think Craig should, and will, get the whole season. The injuries aren't the full story, but we'll have a clearer idea of where we are by, say, the split. Bottom six at that point and they can start looking for a replacement while CL prepares the ground for a dignified exit. He deserves that, at the very least.

[Paul Shark]

6 minutes ago, Top Corner said:

He’s also wasted money on players like,

mulraney

Wighton

Burns

Edwards

Amankwaa

 

to name but a few

 

To early to write Burns off as a waste of money but I think you could potentially ahh Garuccio, Bozanic and Clare to your list.

[Gigolo-Aunt]

What Ann Budge walked in to and the infrastructure at the club now I suspect are very very different.  I'm not quite sure she is as reliant of Levein as she once was.

 

 

[bringonthesevco]

5 minutes ago, cjw87 said:

Our form has been abysmal and last night was an embarrassment, but we have had absolutely no luck over the last 2 months. Injuries, dodgy refereeing decisions and perfectly good goals chalked off. If even a couple of those decisions had gone our way we would be sitting top of the league. Even the best of teams have poor spells but still pick up points by riding a bit of luck.

 

If we are still playing this bad when we have our best players back then I will be worried, but to call for levein's head this now is madness.

Madness ? As is a refusal to accept that anything’s actually wrong , yip it’s all just injuries and referees.... , we signed a load of duds in the summer - we need to accept that and the fact we need to move loads of them on and attempt to rebuild the midfield again - only question is whether that’s with this manager or not ....

[boag1874]

I’ll wait and see how we look after the winter break. If we miss out on Europe again then its time to go.

[Bull's-eye]

Should be sacked after every defeat.

[suds66]

2 minutes ago, bringonthesevco said:

I know the Naismith factor is significant but my reckoning Craig signed at least 7 of the starting line-up last night and virtually all of the substitutes so to not be able to put out a team that can compete is horrendous ...

 

he also signed a ton of midfield / wide players in the summer none of who seem capable of stringing a couple of passes together .

 

Shocking position to be in , is that 1 win in 10 now and people on here are still calling anyone with a negative opinion “pantwetters with a kneejerk reaction”...

Spot on -

Naismith has been a huge miss I agree, but for many to keep using his absence as an excuse is embarrassing. Levein signed 18 players, built a squad to compete, fill in for suspensions and injuries. What is abundantly clear, the majority of his signings have been so poor, that is why we are in this unacceptable situation.

Quantity over quality, quite clearly, judge me on my signings Levein said, smacks of utter incompetence. The vast majority nowhere near good enough.

[brunoatemyhamster]

I feel for CL, I really do,As one thing we can't deny is he is a Hearts man ,but enough's enough.

He's the type of manager you get in to steady the ship, Which he did after Cathro.

I'd like to think he took over to try and make amends for his failed appointment.

He's been shafted by injuries, The Media and Referees since we went top of the league.

He got shafted again last night by the ref. There is no way we would have lost that game by 5 goals until Djoum got sent off. Lost ? Probably. 5 Goals? Never.

The players head went down , and thats been overdue tbh. How much are people expecting them to take?

He has never been able to change his tactics. If he doesn't have a big guy to hold the ball up hes fecked!

If the injury situation hadn't been so bad at the back , one of our center back would have been up front weeks ago.

He's built a decent squad there , and when they are fit , someone else will get a better tune out of them.

Go and sit in your office Craig. PLEASE !

Edited December 15, 2018 by brunoatemyhamster

[EastSideJambo]

20 minutes ago, Pants Shaton said:

 

I love the Ann Budge is not a football person line.

 

Like the owner of some two-bit catering company / bank / haulage firm/ construction company / steelworks / hotel chain etc. etc.  (i.e. the type of MEN who own other football clubs) are somehow expert in the world of football.  As opposed to just being another arrogant **** with an inflated sense of their own football opinions (bit like almost all of us on here).  

 

Craig Levein is staying for some time. He WILL win a major honour with us (bookmark this).  

 

I'm pissed off about last night but shit like that happens (even Celtic got thrashed by a club with 1/10th their budget last year).  I'm also pissed off that I pay my Hearts TV sub but the club seem to have gone into hiding as far as a post-match interview is concerned.  

Good grief

 

There is more chance of us winning a trophy with you or I in charge 

 

He's finished 

[EastSideJambo]

5 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said:

Should be sacked after every defeat.

Best post on the thread 

 

Wonderfully insightful as ever 

[Pants Shaton]

20 minutes ago, Gambo said:

How did Celtic play in the 8 games prior to that result?

 

Or to put it another way, what position were Celtic in the league compared to expectations?

 

Expected: 1st    Actual: 1st

 

Where are Hearts now?

 

Expected: 3rd/4th Actual: 4th 

 

I’m hardly going to argue that we’ve not been pish but all you Levein axe-grinders bided your time whilst we topped the league.  I’ll pass judgement come May.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Pants Shaton

[Bull's-eye]

4 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

Best post on the thread 

 

Wonderfully insightful as ever 

[It should have been ten]

1 hour ago, John mcCartney said:

he has to be contemplating his future this morning surely
ive been watching him all season and he has the air of a man thats simply getting on abit and losing the vigour that
a manager should have in a position of a club like hearts fc.its a fact of life that we change as we get on in life,however
the club simply cannot afford to continue like this.....the facts are there in black and white ,under his stewardship the past few seasons have been an unmitigated disaster.bad decisions,lack of energy around the place

time to go

 

You actually couldn’t be further from the truth of you tried 

[bringonthesevco]

17 minutes ago, Paul Shark said:

To early to write Burns off as a waste of money but I think you could potentially ahh Garuccio, Bozanic and Clare to your list.

And 2 keepers and Lee 

[Top Corner]

Craig has said himself that he’s a dinosaur and relys on the rest of the coaches.

is that really what we want from a manager?

 

You often see him turning to McPhee during a game almost saying, what do i do now?

[It should have been ten]

26 minutes ago, cjw87 said:

Our form has been abysmal and last night was an embarrassment, but we have had absolutely no luck over the last 2 months. Injuries, dodgy refereeing decisions and perfectly good goals chalked off. If even a couple of those decisions had gone our way we would be sitting top of the league. Even the best of teams have poor spells but still pick up points by riding a bit of luck.

 

If we are still playing this bad when we have our best players back then I will be worried, but to call for levein's head this now is madness.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

As some posters have already intimated, Ann Budge is not a football person and, as such, relies on Levein as DOF.  He, in turn, delegates the coaching to Daly and MacPhee before taking over at the end of the week.That structure  is at the root of our problems. 

She has to appoint a football person, a Campbell Ogilvie type, in a COE role and revert to a Chairman role herself. Ditch the DOF, the role and the person, and appoint a decent manager with full autonomy for the first team, recruitment etc.Levein has been kicking about the club, off and on, for 35 years now and imo, his methods and signings are holding the club back. We have been missing a LB along with pace, creativity and width in the team, for several years. The football is slow, ponderous and turgid to watch. We need major changes now.

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Changing managers is pointless unless you are likely to get a better manager in. I cannot think of a better manager that we can realistically get in.

Naismith player manager maybe. He wouldn't put up with last nights performance I am sure of that. I hope for Craig's sake that the players have a serious look at themselves and start to show the willingness to battle for the boss as I still want him to bring success but I hae ma douts again. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, Top Corner said:

Craig has said himself that he’s a dinosaur and relys on the rest of the coaches.

is that really what we want from a manager?

 

You often see him turning to McPhee during a game almost saying, what do i do now?

 

An award deserved here