Hearts shares owned by JKB

[Don Dan]

42 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

  I'd rather KB kept hold of them as I don't really see what purpose it serves and it would be good to have a sizeable chunk of shares outside of FOH. Ultimately it probably won't matter in the long run though and it seems I'm in the minority with that opinion anyway.

 

I did think along these lines but in voting terms it would make no difference when push comes to shove. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, fabienleclerq said:

I don't quite understand how it would benefit the club or JKB if the shares are kept by JKB. If any decisions had to be made would it be by vote? By paid members as contributors can't be tracked?

 

I think they are best with FOH.

By giving them away jkb, an independent entity that cares about the club, loses shareholder rights. FoH doesn't benefit in any meaningful way by doing this, the only thing that would change is the removal of shareholder's rights and I don't see a good reason to do that.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

What are the pros and cons for this?

[SUTOL]

I'd say just keep them.

 

Or as suggested, sell them and use the funds to either or a combination of donate cash to FoH, upgrade servers or similar, bank some funds for future spends.

 

They could be sold to registered users/members on here, or via the shareholders association. Or some other way.

 

 

[Yoda]

1 hour ago, Oliver Twist said:

Definitely give the shares to FOH, the plan was never to give JKB shares in the 1st place.

It was used a vehicle to save the club and the genius who thought up the idea to bring low donations together deserves massive credit for such great out of the box thinking.

 

Shares back to FOH is a great idea.

 

 

 

Totally agree.

 

What's the point in holding on to a fraction of the overall number of shares.

 

We are all FOH (or 8,000 of us are) ?

[Beast Boy]

If you don’t ass them on, you could always let a donator go to a shareholders meeting or something.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

11 minutes ago, Jambo_in_Hamilton said:

What are the pros and cons for this?

Have you uploaded your pictures yet?

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

Anything that helps the long term interests of the club is fine by me. 

[winningways]

Support this, give to FOH

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

I'd hold on to them as a small but potentially useful interest group. Who knows what shareholder politics will be in place in the future.

 

 

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I think JKB should hang onto them, if nothing else to retain a shareholder voice for a group of fans who aren't necessarily active FOH members (ref my concerns re governance). 

 

Another 0.2% or so will make no difference to FOH. 

 

The decision should be down to those who contributed the share purchase though. 

 

 

52 minutes ago, Smithee said:

By giving them away jkb, an independent entity that cares about the club, loses shareholder rights. FoH doesn't benefit in any meaningful way by doing this, the only thing that would change is the removal of shareholder's rights and I don't see a good reason to do that.

 

 

I'd agree with the above points (and others like them).  An extra fraction of a % doesn't really benefit FoH, whereas it's not a bad thing for JKB to be able to say it has a small share in the ownership of Hearts.

 

And if it turns out that the shares have any reasonable monetary value, JKB shouldn't give them away for free, but should sell them and donate the proceeds to the kind of good causes the forum has helped financially over the years.

 

Just my, er, two cents' worth.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Ulysses

[Maple Leaf]

19 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd agree with the above points (and others like them).  An extra fraction of a % doesn't really benefit FoH, whereas it's not a bad thing for JKB to be able to say it has a small share in the ownership of Hearts.

 

And if it turns out that the shares have any reasonable monetary value, JKB shouldn't give them away for free, but should sell them and donate the proceeds to the kind of good causes the forum has helped financially over the years.

 

Just my, er, two cents' worth.

 

I'm not sure, but I think that might be about the value of the shares.

[Hungry hippo]

I'm in favour of passing them to FoH.

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

I think the club would really be in trouble if it came down to expecting arseholes like us to agree on something that may be crucial to the future of HMFC.

[loveofthegame]

3 hours ago, Psychedelicropcircle said:

Never put in on this but threw the £110 to buy shares at that time.I’d donate to FOH if I knew how ?

 

It is very easy - follow this link and fill in your details:

 

https://www.foundationofhearts.org/own-the-history-shape-the-future/

[Ulysses]

42 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I'm not sure, but I think that might be about the value of the shares.

 

[Boof]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

 This isn't a binding referendum just a means to get a rough feel. 

 

I'm happy for the Admins to invoke Article 51 and pass the shares to FoH.

 

No idea if I contributed to the JKB pot but like many others I did get some of my own to ensure there's not going to be a 100% owner.

[redjambo]

Unless they're burning a hole in JKB's pocket, I would hang on to them. If JKB wants to add its vote to FOH's on any issue, it can still do so, but this way, it has more of an investment in the club and a say on decisions.

Edited November 2, 2018 by redjambo

[fabienleclerq]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

By giving them away jkb, an independent entity that cares about the club, loses shareholder rights. FoH doesn't benefit in any meaningful way by doing this, the only thing that would change is the removal of shareholder's rights and I don't see a good reason to do that.

 

Not entirely sure all the contributors cares about the club!! 

 

I think I still vote for them to go to FOH, I'd rather the 8000 or so contributors are in control of as many shares as possible as they are guaranteed to have the club's best interest at heart.

[Jambo-Fox]

I never contributed to these shares so my view is irrelevant!

However I’d suggest keeping them. I’ve retained mine from both (?) issues and whilst in terms of ’power’ they are inconsequential I think it’s good that a small minority exists outside the ‘power’ ie FOH. Together the minority shareholders of which Ann Budge (with her retained shareholding) will be the major minor(!) can at least create some noise when appropriate and make the majority shareholder and ultimate owner the FOH pause for thought on any contentious matters! 

[sandylejambo]

Keep hold of them, we know you, we might get duped by FOH board members in the future, I don't think it makes to much difference to them, it might be a way of getting into AGMs in the future, I'm saying this as a FOH donator and someone who bought shares at the same time as kickback, 

[JamboJen]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd agree with the above points (and others like them).  An extra fraction of a % doesn't really benefit FoH, whereas it's not a bad thing for JKB to be able to say it has a small share in the ownership of Hearts.

 

And if it turns out that the shares have any reasonable monetary value, JKB shouldn't give them away for free, but should sell them and donate the proceeds to the kind of good causes the forum has helped financially over the years.

 

Just my, er, two cents' worth.

My initial reaction to reading the OP was, "yeah, great idea" but I'm now completely on board with keeping them. The volume of shares is small enough that it doesn't really make any difference to FOH whereas it would completely stop JKB as an entity being a shareholder at all by donating them.

 

Let's keep them.

[Rabgee]

I would be happy to pass them on to FOH or to me which ever you feel is most appropriate!!!??

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, JamboJen said:

My initial reaction to reading the OP was, "yeah, great idea" but I'm now completely on board with keeping them. The volume of shares is small enough that it doesn't really make any difference to FOH whereas it would completely stop JKB as an entity being a shareholder at all by donating them.

 

Let's keep them.

I was exactly the same, initially all for the gesture of support. But when I thought about it, I just didn't see that as a good enough reason to give up the rights that come with the shareholding. 

[¼½¾]

I think I might have contributed, but can't be 100% sure as there was a lot of stuff going on at the time.  I don't see any problem with with passing them on to FOH.

 

What some people might want to know:  What, roughly, is the current monetary value of our shareholding?

 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

4 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So they exist in an umbrella organisation and we give them to another umbrella organisation? Failing to spot the difference here.

 

Maybe sell them instead and upgrade the servers? Just a thought.

Christ on a bike...

[Dunks]

As someone who bought shares and contributed to this fund, I really don't give a rats arse what you do with the shares.

 

I 'bought' in to save the Club. MY Club. We did that, so mission accomplished.

 

If you want rid of the hassle - give them to FOH. If you want to hold onto some sort of control, then keep them.

 

I'll back JKB whichever

 

[Tams bird]

4 hours ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

I think the club would really be in trouble if it came down to expecting arseholes like us to agree on something that may be crucial to the future of HMFC.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Psychedelicropcircle]

8 hours ago, loveofthegame said:

 

It is very easy - follow this link and fill in your details:

 

https://www.foundationofhearts.org/own-the-history-shape-the-future/

I was talking about donating the shares?

[camwil]

Yes

[mir00005]

Just wait for the next horse tip on the Shed and lump it on that. They never let us down...

[Mid Calder Jambo]

FOH for me would appear to be the best route in my humble opinion.

[McCrae]

My thoughts are that there is no rush to do this and that the smart move would be to wait.  There are no costs in holding shares.

 

Whilst FOH will control the club I think down the road thought should be given to the overall ownership structure of the club.  

 

Having a group of minority shareholders in the club is not a bad thing and could act as a counter balance. The JKB shares when added to individual shareholders make up a reasonable amount.

 

Once the shares have been gifted they are gone forever....  why not wait to see how things go before making a transfer?

[jr ewing]

Still got mine. 

[scott herbertson]

I'm pretty sure I didn't contribute to this (but I might have, my memory being what it is!).

However I am for the idea simply because it helps to present an united front - FOH should represent all of us, and to have other interest groups with shares is unhelpful IMO.

[TorinoJambo]

14 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

I totally disagree. We should donate them to the Neil Lennon Sympathy Fund for hard done by welts. Or we could donate them to the HSL as they are struggling to raise a fart for their share issue. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really ?

 

FoH is the place they should be going even although I wasn’t on JKB back then however I  bought my own at the time.

 

I widny give Hubs or Lennon the reek off my fart, personally.

[Big Slim Stylee]

We should hang on to them. I like the symbolism which seems more worthwhile than the practicality.

[loveofthegame]

5 hours ago, Psychedelicropcircle said:

I was talking about donating the shares?

 

Doh?

[davemclaren]

On 02/11/2018 at 18:58, davemclaren said:

During the dying days of the VR regime many hundreds on this forum very generously donated to allow us to buy shares in the late 2012 share issue to try and avoid administration or worse. This allowed those that couldn't afford, or didn't want to pay, the minimum subscription to donate some money to the club in its hour of great need. We raised around £40k ( an amazing figure ) which allowed us to buy 300,000 shares which are currently registered to JKB.

 

 

Since we acquired the shares we have done nothing with them but we are now proposing to transfer all 300,000 shares to the Foundation of Hearts so they can be held and used by them for the benefit of all Hearts supporters. 

 

I've started  this thread to get a feel for our memberships views on this proposal. 

Thanks for the comments so far. Comments so far are nearly 3 to 1 in favour of transferring to FoH. I’ll close this thread tonight. 

[geogth]

How about selling the shares to members via kickback and donating the proceeds to FOH or the many charitable donations KB already help. I am sure there are a lot of people who would pay a premium for a share certificate in their name. It could raise a good sum.

[gerryjambo41]

I can’t actually remember if I donated to the shares on JKB , I’ve still got my own that I bought at the same time , it would be a nice gesture to donate them to FOH and if the majority want to do this I’m ok with it ?

[gerryjambo41]

2 minutes ago, geogth said:

How about selling the shares to members via kickback and donating the proceeds to FOH or the many charitable donations KB already help. I am sure there are a lot of people who would pay a premium for a share certificate in their name. It could raise a good sum.

This might be a good idea too ?

[maroonlegions]

100% agree. 

[Disco Dave]

1 hour ago, geogth said:

How about selling the shares to members via kickback and donating the proceeds to FOH or the many charitable donations KB already help. I am sure there are a lot of people who would pay a premium for a share certificate in their name. It could raise a good sum.

Great idea. Thats a win/win

[Worthing Jambo]

Good idea.

If it can raise a bit for good causes.

I wouldn’t like them to disappear into a black hole like the trust shares have!

[Thunderstruck]

On 02/11/2018 at 18:58, davemclaren said:

During the dying days of the VR regime many hundreds on this forum very generously donated to allow us to buy shares in the late 2012 share issue to try and avoid administration or worse. This allowed those that couldn't afford, or didn't want to pay, the minimum subscription to donate some money to the club in its hour of great need. We raised around £40k ( an amazing figure ) which allowed us to buy 300,000 shares which are currently registered to JKB.

 

 

Since we acquired the shares we have done nothing with them but we are now proposing to transfer all 300,000 shares to the Foundation of Hearts so they can be held and used by them for the benefit of all Hearts supporters. 

 

I've started  this thread to get a feel for our memberships views on this proposal. 

 

I’m happy with this proposal. 

[Glottis]

+1 agree

[Footballfirst]

10 hours ago, geogth said:

How about selling the shares to members via kickback and donating the proceeds to FOH or the many charitable donations KB already help. I am sure there are a lot of people who would pay a premium for a share certificate in their name. It could raise a good sum.

I like that idea. There is no market for the shares so there is no price that reflects their value, but a back of a fag packet calculation could provide a guideline figure.

 

There are 156m shares in the club, but there is no known monetary value of the club itself. At the last accounts, the fixed assets were valued at £6.4m, with £5.5m in the course of construction, so £11.9m.  With the stand complete, a debt free club should be worth in excess of £15m.  If we use  a figure of £15.6m for convenience, then the shares would be valued at 10p each.

 

The sale of 300,000 shares at 10p by JKB could raise up to £30,000 for good causes. Even if only half were sold, it would still raise a good deal of cash.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Footballfirst

[Worthing Jambo]

22 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I like that idea. There is no market for the shares so there is no price that reflects their value, but a back of a fag packet calculation could provide a guideline figure.

 

There are 156m shares in the club, but there is no known monetary value of the club itself. At the last accounts, the fixed assets were valued at £6.4m, with £5.5m in the course of construction, so £11.9m.  With the stand complete, a debt free club should be worth in excess of £15m.  If we use  a figure of £15.6m for convenience, then the shares would be valued at 10p each.

 

The sale of 300,000 shares at 10p by JKB could raise up to £30,000 for good causes. Even if only half were sold, it would still raise a good deal of cash.

I was thinking 20p a share.

It would be purely a sentimental purchase and £100 would give you 500 shares.

[davemclaren]

Thanks to all for their opinions and suggestions. We’ll take them into consideration and get back to you with how we plan to proceed.