What do the police do at matches

[Crete]

What do they do they just huddle together in the corner and watch the crowd  causing trouble ,they should be in the stands and maybe the thugs would think twice before they act like idiots.

[EIEIO]

Watch cctv and use it to make an arrest days later. Sadly.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, Crete said:

What do they do they just huddle together in the corner and watch the crowd  causing trouble ,they should be in the stands and maybe the thugs would think twice before they act like idiots.

 

They video everything and use CCTV nowadays, then go and nick anybody doing anything wrong later, maybe when the idiots realise this then maybe they'll not throw things.

[Dave McCreery's knee]

There was a ridiculous incident after the game at the police cordon on McLeod St. We were held back for 15 minutes or so, as usual for Cat A games. Usually the police then let hearts fans through on the left, away fans through on the right, so at worse there is a bit of abuse thrown. 

Last night the police opened one side only and let both set of fans walk towards each other in a narrow funnel. Hearts fans were singing “mind the gap, hibbee b*****”, hibs fans shouting abuse. Ended up in barging and a couple of punches thrown. Totally avoidable, in fact a situation completely of PS’s making. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Was thinking this myself. I assume the Unions don't want their guys going in to get assaulted themselves.

 

Looking forward to a fine quiet game against Kilmarnock, not sure I can cope with the frenzy of matches just passed!

 

Searches last night appeared to be non existent.

[luckydug]

The 64k dollar question isn't it ?

Football matches as in any other potential flash point situation the public are entitled to feel safe. The Police need to start displaying a show of strength. The culprits of bad behaviour need to know that their antics will end up with a night in the cells and the prospect of a custodial sentence.

This waiting and going through video evidence does not make the public feel safe.

While the Police are studying their videos the nutjobs are away committing more offences elsewhere. 

[John Findlay]

A few things. Due to political correctness. The standard for admittance to the police as with Fire Brigade and armed services have been lowered so much that people are getting these jobs who wouldn't  have got a sniff 30/40 years ago.

[tartofmidlothian]

Is it not the case that police leave isolated incidents alone unless they escalate, and use CCTV to nick them afterwards? It makes sense, the incidents with Bobby and Lennon were over in seconds and the game went on, it's only a bad tactic if they don't get them after.

 

If a dozen bams invaded the pitch, I'm sure they'd be right in there.

[Boab1874]

S2 on Sunday they took their time.

[macker1874]

Police are only there to support the stewards unfortunately and step in if need be. From my experience as a supervisor at the football police only want to have a say external and have a helpin hand internal when needed.

[Tasavallan]

1 hour ago, Crete said:

What do they do they just huddle together in the corner and watch the crowd  causing trouble ,they should be in the stands and maybe the thugs would think twice before they act like idiots.

 

Like guant yellow penguins in the Antarctic, they huddle together for warmth, the smaller ones to the centre.

[Mid Calder Jambo]

47 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

A few things. Due to political correctness. The standard for admittance to the police as with Fire Brigade and armed services have been lowered so much that people are getting these jobs who wouldn't  have got a sniff 30/40 years ago.

 

And have no intention of putting themselves in harms way to uphold piblic safety.  They stand aside, wait and then pick up the easy targets.

[Ribble]

The galling thing for me is that less than 2 weeks ago Dunne was attacked retrieving the ball from behind the goal, do the Police or stewards not do any kind of lessons learned?

[Cade]

Cushy overtime is what they do at matches.

 

Take a few pictures to be handed to the detectives once they get back to station.

[luckydug]

Surely a few plain clothes cops mixing in with the crowd in the volatile areas of stadiums. 

The public need to see the bad guys getting lifted on the spot not weeks later when it's all forgotten about.

[Thomaso]

32 minutes ago, macker1874 said:

Police are only there to support the stewards unfortunately and step in if need be. From my experience as a supervisor at the football police only want to have a say external and have a helpin hand internal when needed.

 

So a fan throws a punch at a player and it's not a matter for the police to step in and arrest the guy?????

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Crete said:

What do they do they just huddle together in the corner and watch the crowd  causing trouble ,they should be in the stands and maybe the thugs would think twice before they act like idiots.

 

In the first few minutes Oly Lee was taking a corner and a Hibs fan threw an object at him. There was a policeman standing in that corner - he stood like a tailors dummy and did nothing!!

[Jodami]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

A few things. Due to political correctness. The standard for admittance to the police as with Fire Brigade and armed services have been lowered so much that people are getting these jobs who wouldn't  have got a sniff 30/40 years ago.

You mean they let in non masons and women now John. The police are not perfect by any means but that is a ridiculous comment. 

[Mid Calder Jambo]

4 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Surely a few plain clothes cops mixing in with the crowd in the volatile areas of stadiums. 

The public need to see the bad guys getting lifted on the spot not weeks later when it's all forgotten about.

 You are spot on LD. 

 

The walk of shame deterred most in the past but some of these wee lassies that mascarade as Polis coulnae keep weans out close never mind wade in to pull the recalcitrants out of the crowd.  They lift folk on the sly and it has no deterrent effect whatsoever

[Jocam2325]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

Cushy overtime is what they do at matches.

 

Take a few pictures to be handed to the detectives once they get back to station.

Regardless of what you think about what they do or don't do at matches I can tell you that geting paid overtime (cushy or otherwise) is not one of them. Days off cancelled for events such as last night and Sunday. That is a fact. 

[Mid Calder Jambo]

1 minute ago, Jodami said:

You mean they let in non masons and women now John. The police are not perfect by any means but that is a ridiculous comment. 

 

And that is a ridiculous comment. 

 

JF is spot on.  The police need to get back to 5 foot 8 inched or above, male or female.  Policing is about presence and some of the dwarfs you see in black and white do not have it.

[Jocam2325]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

A few things. Due to political correctness. The standard for admittance to the police as with Fire Brigade and armed services have been lowered so much that people are getting these jobs who wouldn't  have got a sniff 30/40 years ago.

Not got a clue mate. You have no idea what it takes to be a cop nowadays. 30 years ago there were plenty people in the job who should not have been. Bigots, bullies etc etc. The standard of person nowadays is night and day. They may not all be 6 ft 3 bruisers but as capable professional people they are streets ahead generally. But bash on with your stereotype nonsense

[Back to 2005]

Seems football is like a day off. Only get involved if there is no alternative.  God knows what they do for their money. Most obvious last night was the assault on Bobby. Surely they should be straight across making an arrest!? 

[Thomaso]

13 minutes ago, Jodami said:

You mean they let in non masons and women now John. The police are not perfect by any means but that is a ridiculous comment. 

 

No more ridiculous than yours!!

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Crete said:

What do they do they just huddle together in the corner and watch the crowd  causing trouble ,they should be in the stands and maybe the thugs would think twice before they act like idiots.

They get paid overtime then go to the chippy.

 

I dont see them do much else!

[AlphonseCapone]

28 minutes ago, Mid Calder Jambo said:

 

And that is a ridiculous comment. 

 

JF is spot on.  The police need to get back to 5 foot 8 inched or above, male or female.  Policing is about presence and some of the dwarfs you see in black and white do not have it.

 

Your comment isn't any less ridiculous. Some of the biggest shitebags I've ever seen have been over 6ft.

 

I assumed folk realised after primary school that size has no real baring on "hardness". 

Edited November 1, 2018 by AlphonseCapone

[Mid Calder Jambo]

12 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Your comment isn't any less ridiculous. Some of the biggest shitebags I've ever seen have been over 6ft.

 

I assumed folk realised after primary school that size has no real baring on "hardness". 

 Wasn't talking about hardness i was talking about presence.  The shitebags are less likely to try it on with a 6ft policeman than 5ft zero policwoman.

[Phil Dunphy]

I was having a look around after the Hibs fan jumped the barrier. Not a police officer in sight inside the ground.

[Jodami]

23 minutes ago, Mid Calder Jambo said:

 

And that is a ridiculous comment. 

 

JF is spot on.  The police need to get back to 5 foot 8 inched or above, male or female.  Policing is about presence and some of the dwarfs you see in black and white do not have it.

Hand up that’s fair it was ridiculous. Criticise the tactical approach by all means but don't criticise individuals. Policing is a complex job and physical stature means very little in many situations outside policing a football match. Actually getting into the police now is a very difficult process. 

[macker1874]

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

So a fan throws a punch at a player and it's not a matter for the police to step in and arrest the guy?????

You'd think they would but it will be the chief of police in the control room that has the final say on what his guys do they might have seen it but he might decide it's better to leave arresting or stepping in at the end of the game where there is less of a chance the ago will affect the game during play. It will be a different chief of police for last nights game to the Aberdeen game where Dunne got assaulted.

[Seymour M Hersh]

They need to be a lot more visible and proactive. Leaving minimum wage civilians to deal with violent offenders should be a crime in itself! 

 

 

[brunoatemyhamster]

They were a shambles last night.

They were worse on Sunday.

The Club are paying their wages.

Get them told to do their job and deal with these things. If a crime of any sort is commited, deal with it.

They just want to steward games and get the crowds away so they dont have to deal with it.

Offer to pay them a stewards rate and see how many arrests are made.

Edited November 1, 2018 by brunoatemyhamster

[TyphoonJambo]

28 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

A few things. Due to political correctness. The standard for admittance to the police as with Fire Brigade and armed services have been lowered so much that people are getting these jobs who wouldn't  have got a sniff 30/40 years ago.

Can’t comment on the police admission qualifications but I do know that when they were forced to pass an annual fitness test, their federation argued successfully that there could be no discrimination between the sexes. As a result, unlike the forces, they all pass the female standard. Might as well take your pulse, it’s thats easy. Hence so many fat immobile examples crammed into that corner on double time. It’s a monopoly though, they dictate the numbers and are not open to challenge.

[TyphoonJambo]

19 minutes ago, macker1874 said:

You'd think they would but it will be the chief of police in the control room that has the final say on what his guys do they might have seen it but he might decide it's better to leave arresting or stepping in at the end of the game where there is less of a chance the ago will affect the game during play. It will be a different chief of police for last nights game to the Aberdeen game where Dunne got assaulted.

It should be instinctive for a policeman to react to a clearly visible assault. Imagine a paramedic witnessing an accident without reacting!

[ZanderMIM]

It’s not just police that do nothing - I can remember when there was always a line of stewards in front of the hibs support at tynecastle just in case. Last night when the Bobby incident happened there was not one in sight.. even with the presence of stewards near you it must be a deterrent for fans to act this way so whoever was in charge of that last night is in the wrong job. 

[EH11_2NL]

1 hour ago, Jocam2325 said:

Not got a clue mate. You have no idea what it takes to be a cop nowadays. 30 years ago there were plenty people in the job who should not have been. Bigots, bullies etc etc. The standard of person nowadays is night and day. They may not all be 6 ft 3 bruisers but as capable professional people they are streets ahead generally. But bash on with your stereotype nonsense

Spot on.  

[macker1874]

Once again you'd think but what the chief will say in the brief before the game will be that they are there to support and ultimately the stewards have the run of the mill within the stadium. They don't want the police just stepping in doing the job of a steward because that then defeats the purpose of having stewards. There was games I done and it was a non policed game and if you had to eject someone and they needed arrested you'd have to wait sometimes 20 min for the police to arrive.

[joondalupjambo]

The problem here is that most of these polis are now no older than children when you look at them, so no way can their bosses let them go into the crowds.  They would get eaten alive, spat out and stamped on.  Bring back the days of the beat Bobby with the three foot baton.

 

Oh er missus 

Edited November 1, 2018 by joondalupjambo

[macker1874]

6 minutes ago, ZanderMIM said:

It’s not just police that do nothing - I can remember when there was always a line of stewards in front of the hibs support at tynecastle just in case. Last night when the Bobby incident happened there was not one in sight.. even with the presence of stewards near you it must be a deterrent for fans to act this way so whoever was in charge of that last night is in the wrong job. 

G4S are literally the worse company for stewarding and I'm surprised they even still have the contract. They use to use the company I worked for when they couldn't get the numbers they would also go as far as bringing bus loads of staff up from Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds ect.

[EH11_2NL]

12 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Can’t comment on the police admission qualifications but I do know that when they were forced to pass an annual fitness test, their federation argued successfully that there could be no discrimination between the sexes. As a result, unlike the forces, they all pass the female standard. Might as well take your pulse, it’s thats easy. Hence so many fat immobile examples crammed into that corner on double time. It’s a monopoly though, they dictate the numbers and are not open to challenge.

Utter tosh. Double time for almost everything went out the window a long time ago. Not ONE cop there would be on paid overtime last night. Not one. Cancelled rest day or most likely taken from their own area to cover the match. Leaving their own beat short of staff.....again.

[Manny1874]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

I was having a look around after the Hibs fan jumped the barrier. Not a police officer in sight inside the ground.

 

Noticed this also. The two sections between the Wheatfield and Roseburn were having a fair bit of back and forward before the game which looked like escalating, there was probably one steward and no police there. 

 

On the wider point, I also wonder what the stewards were actually doing outside the ground at the turnstiles. The amount of flares which were being thrown around inside the ground, you'd think they were selling them along with the pie and bovril. 

[TyphoonJambo]

Just now, EH11_2NL said:

Utter tosh. Double time for almost everything went out the window a long time ago. Not ONE cop there would be on paid overtime last night. Not one. Cancelled rest day or most likely taken from their own area to cover the match. Leaving their own beat short of staff.....again.

Diddums, still too much for standing watching a crime and not having the bottle to deal with it. Whatever we pay them, rates aside, the club pay premium rates for the self determined numbers of police, and should at least expect them to do their job.

[macker1874]

11 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Diddums, still too much for standing watching a crime and not having the bottle to deal with it. Whatever we pay them, rates aside, the club pay premium rates for the self determined numbers of police, and should at least expect them to do their job.

It's not that they don't have the bottle to deal with it, it's the stewards whi should be dealing with it then once out the public eye the police step in police aren't there to eject people from the ground it's the sia licenced stewards that are there to eject them. Because believe me iv worked along side police officers that wouldn't hesitate in having your back.

[Unknown user]

Just now, macker1874 said:

It's not that they don't have the bottle to deal with it, it's the stewards whi should be dealing with it then once out the public eye the police step in police aren't there to eject people from the ground it's the sia licenced stewards that are there to eject them. Because believe me iv worked along side police officers that wouldn't hesitate in having your back.

 

Should the stewards be dealing with it? My brother got offered steward work at a game, he was told they were there to be a presence, help people to their seats etc but not to get involved - that's the police's business. 

He said no as it was 3 hours work at minimum wage and wasn't worth the effort. Aren't we expecting a bit much from agency staff earning twenty five quid for their shift?

[weegie jambo]

Two points here, I can tell that from recent experience of my son in law who is undergoing his 8 week training at Tullyallan that the entrance criteria for the police is pretty stringent. Numerous tests, interviews and fitness tests before they even offer you a job, followed by the 8 week residential course before you start the job proper. He's no 6 foot bruiser but he's a fit and feisty guy. However secondly I do think they are under orders to hang back and view the CCTV footage later, which begs the question why have such a visable presence if you're not going to do anything. If not the old school wading into the crowd to weed out the trouble makers at least a line at the front of the crowd to make as if they are watching for trouble!

[macker1874]

 

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Should the stewards be dealing with it? My brother got offered steward work at a game, he was told they were there to be a presence, help people to their seats etc but not to get involved - that's the police's business. 

He said no as it was 3 hours work at minimum wage and wasn't worth the effort. Aren't we expecting a bit much from agency staff earning twenty five quid for their shift?

There Is a difference between a steward and a licenced steward. Licenced stewards can eject and are meant to eject with the police backing them up and arresting if need be if not issuing a warning once the person is ejected they also work on the turnstiles searching and knocking people back. A non licenced sreward is there to show people to there seats, man fire exits and perform a stair way patrol if required by the club. Companies like G4S,  securigroup, security Scotland etc are not agencies and the staff they use are employees not agency staff. Hearts and Hibs need to review there contract with G4S as it's only getting worse with flairs, smoke bombs, even being over intoxicated which is illegal to be over intoxicated at a football match and night clubs etc. If you stop these people getting in then you curb the idiotic behaviour shown by the hibs fan who pubched one of our players but the coin throwing from our fan is a tougher on as Lennon was looking for a reaction from our fans.

[TyphoonJambo]

Okay I’ll withdraw the “lack of bottle” comment as I’m sure the majority would have loved to have dragged the scum out. However, what was the point of so many police corralled in the corner feet away from where it was obviously going to kick off.yes they were visible but the Hibs fans knew they were getting away with it. The only place it was ever going to kick off was down that end. A police line detailed facing the crowd would alway be a more controlling force than the odd elderly unfit minimum waged steward.

The individual controlling and deploying the police assets are who should be called to task.

As an aside, agreed initial selection demands a high level of fitness. Once in however, the annual fitness test standards required by the police are embarrassing, google it!

[It should have been ten]

2 hours ago, Mid Calder Jambo said:

 

And that is a ridiculous comment. 

 

JF is spot on.  The police need to get back to 5 foot 8 inched or above, male or female.  Policing is about presence and some of the dwarfs you see in black and white do not have it.

 

Agree

[macker1874]

7 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Okay I’ll withdraw the “lack of bottle” comment as I’m sure the majority would have loved to have dragged the scum out. However, what was the point of so many police corralled in the corner feet away from where it was obviously going to kick off.yes they were visible but the Hibs fans knew they were getting away with it. The only place it was ever going to kick off was down that end. A police line detailed facing the crowd would alway be a more controlling force than the odd elderly unfit minimum waged steward.

The individual controlling and deploying the police assets are who should be called to task.

As an aside, agreed initial selection demands a high level of fitness. Once in however, the annual fitness test standards required by the police are embarrassing, google it!

It's the stewards who are there to stand in front of the crowd with the police backing them up if they need it. Every saftey brief details this. From what I seen there was only 2 stewards when Bobby got him one standing in the seating and another who jumped over the barrier when Bobby went down.

Edited November 1, 2018 by macker1874

[It should have been ten]

52 minutes ago, ZanderMIM said:

It’s not just police that do nothing - I can remember when there was always a line of stewards in front of the hibs support at tynecastle just in case. Last night when the Bobby incident happened there was not one in sight.. even with the presence of stewards near you it must be a deterrent for fans to act this way so whoever was in charge of that last night is in the wrong job. 

 

Can remember when there were so many police and stewards lined up all round the pitch (except the family enclosure) that we could barely see the game for them blocking the view - were snookered if you stood or sat just behind the fences. Any trouble though and they just waded right in, changed days 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by It should have been ten