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How Would You Vote in IndyRef2?

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ri Alban
8 minutes ago, H2 said:

I think Brexit will have shown people, don't vote for something if you don't know what you are getting. I doubt the SNP will want a referendum anytime soon, they must realise people have wised up.

 

The SNP will hope they have. 

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Der Kaiser

Yes again.

 

Britain is like a team meeting in my old job.....we all get to say our ideas and opinions but ultimately the person in charge is an arse and chooses to go down shitfcuk lane every bloody time.....

Edited by Der Kaiser

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Cade

A Yes vote doe not make Scotland an automatic SNP fiefdom forever.

There should be a general election right after a Yes-winning referendum. 

If you don't like the SNP after independence, vote them out.

Independence may very well energise Scottish politics, with the Tories and Labour (and the LibDems) being freed from their Westminster head offices to make their own policies which would be purely for the benefit of Scotland.

 

As to the timing and spacing of referenda:

What are regular elections if not a referendum on the policies of the sitting government or council?

Nobody wants to stop elections because the last result was "the will of the people" and should not be challenged for twenty years.

As folk have pointed out, many old folk who mostly voted No (and Leave for that matter) have popped their clogs since the last referenda and many thousands of youngsters who will have to live with the results are now of voting age.

 

But to be honest, referenda are a stupid way of doing things anyways. 

We're supposed to have a representative democracy, with party policies being the driving force and voters picking the party who's policies they want to see enacted on their behalf.

Referenda reduce democracy to mob rule lacking any kind of independent scrutiny such as parliamentary policy is subject to.

 

 

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benny

Yes had their chance and got beat.

Would be happy if there was never another referendum in my lifetime.

That's  two now and the way the losing sides have acted in defeat is disgraceful.

Voted no twice.I accepted the democratic vote.So should everybody else.

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John Findlay

The same as indyref 1.

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redjambo

Voted No last time, but would lean towards Yes the next time if (i) The referendum isn't held too soon (at least a couple of years after Brexit takes effect); (ii) The Yes side concentrate on the facts this time, actually answer questions like currency and European membership, and stop this Braveheart "Freedom" emotionally-led crap that did my head in the last time; (ii) There is a good chance that we rejoin Europe if we go independent (I'm a supporter of the European project).

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jack D and coke
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It's not a general election. The SNP would have to win one to govern an independent Scotland. 

This is half the problem. It’s actually what people seem to believe is that a Yes vote means never ending SNP governments. Personally I believe Scotland would end up voting in a conservative type after a few elections of this socialist nirvana type nonsense. It would be free of the toxicity of WM though which would give it a shot in the arm and a fresh start. 

Personally I couldnt imagine voting No but I’d wait to hear the lay of things. 

I’m in no doubt the fear would be double cranked up this time though but imagine Rees Mogg or Johnson running the show? 

Or Corbyn ffs :facepalm: 

Eh no thanks. 

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jonnothejambo

All five of us voted No before and we would do the same again. 

 

Also we all voted to Remain in the Brexit vote.

 

God only knows how that will end up.

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Cruyff Turn
4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

This is half the problem. It’s actually what people seem to believe is that a Yes vote means never ending SNP governments. Personally I believe Scotland would end up voting in a conservative type after a few elections of this socialist nirvana type nonsense. It would be free of the toxicity of WM though which would give it a shot in the arm and a fresh start. 

Personally I couldnt imagine voting No but I’d wait to hear the lay of things. 

I’m in no doubt the fear would be double cranked up this time though but imagine Rees Mogg or Johnson running the show? 

Or Corbyn ffs :facepalm: 

Eh no thanks. 

Yep, there’d probably be a DUP type party which would be the current Tories, another bunch of Tories who aren’t Unionists, a bunch of Socialist Unionists, ie the current Labour Party and another Socialist type party that weren’t Unionists.

 

The SNP would disband into all these different pigeon holes once their common goal had been reached or leave Politics for good. 

 

Independence isnt about Parties or Leaders, it’s about Scotland getting control over its own affairs. How can that be a bad thing? 

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All roads lead to Gorgie

I voted yes the last time and a no deal Brexit would probably see me voting that way again especially if things go belly up. However, a soft Brexit would make me weigh everything up very carefully and in other words put me back in with the undecided. I think that is probably where the Scottish voters stand as a whole right now.

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Ibiza Jambo

I voted yes in 2014. The result of that referendum was also small part of my decision to move here. Then along comes the brexit vote to leave the EU making me feel even more relieved that I don’t live there anymore. I would still love to see an independent Scotland in the next ten years, preferably as part of the EU again and if it ever did happen I would be on the first plane home ?

Edited by Ibiza Jambo

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ri Alban
3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

This is half the problem. It’s actually what people seem to believe is that a Yes vote means never ending SNP governments. Personally I believe Scotland would end up voting in a conservative type after a few elections of this socialist nirvana type nonsense. It would be free of the toxicity of WM though which would give it a shot in the arm and a fresh start. 

Personally I couldnt imagine voting No but I’d wait to hear the lay of things. 

I’m in no doubt the fear would be double cranked up this time though but imagine Rees Mogg or Johnson running the show? 

Or Corbyn ffs :facepalm: 

Eh no thanks. 

Probably more New Labour. 

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bobsharp

Ive not until tonight engaged in the Independence votes. I remember when before I left the country there was a strong Scottish Nationalist movement for independence.  They promised that with oil and whiskey  revenues we would live tax free, and like some of the Middle East oil countrys even get free housing. What are the benefits of a seperation vote yes this time.

I think the main " for" people were Wendy Wood and Nicholas Fairbairn.

Edited by bobsharp

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Helzibob
8 hours ago, redjambo said:

Voted No last time, but would lean towards Yes the next time if (i) The referendum isn't held too soon (at least a couple of years after Brexit takes effect); (ii) The Yes side concentrate on the facts this time, actually answer questions like currency and European membership, and stop this Braveheart "Freedom" emotionally-led crap that did my head in the last time; (ii) There is a good chance that we rejoin Europe if we go independent (I'm a supporter of the European project).

 

That’s pretty much where I was and where I’m at now too.

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RS86
10 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It's not a general election. The SNP would have to win one to govern an independent Scotland. 

 

Seemed to be a forgotten fact among people I work with. Had people saying to me they voted no because they hate SNP ffs Yes people really are that thick ?

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Ray Gin

A hesitant yes last time. An emphatic yes for indyref2.

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Dannie Boy

No, not then, not now and not in the future.

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Ron Burgundy

I voted no last time but now wish I had voted YES so I could be a millionaire with all the money we were gonna make from oil.

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Mauricio Pinilla

If yes wins do we have a decider a couple of years later? 

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ri Alban
3 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I voted no last time but now wish I had voted YES so I could be a millionaire with all the money we were gonna make from oil.

As opposed to Wm making us millionaires with the government us Scots vote in. 

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JamboX2
10 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Start out out of Europe? All depends who you believe. Last I read on this, and especially since Brexit, Scotland would be welcomed with open arms to stay in Europe with a smooth transition. There will be an open spot to fill after all and it would solve a lot of border issues.

 

There are a lot of open spots to fill. It's not a one in, one out policy. And it wouldn't solve any border issues it would create a hard border at Berwick if Scotland opted to go back in and the UK was out. 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

If Scotland was to become a Republic, I'd happily vote yes. 

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ri Alban
3 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

If Scotland was to become a Republic, I'd happily vote yes. 

That and EU membership is a question for post independence. 

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Ron Burgundy
18 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

As opposed to Wm making us millionaires with the government us Scots vote in. 

Unlike you I would happily change side if I thought my family would be better off.

 

I didn't vote NO because of some huge UK love in, was purely based on not being willing to chance my kids futures to a party with zero post-independence policies.

 

Sort that out and I'd be converted.

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JamboX2
9 hours ago, Cade said:

A Yes vote doe not make Scotland an automatic SNP fiefdom forever.

There should be a general election right after a Yes-winning referendum. 

If you don't like the SNP after independence, vote them out.

Independence may very well energise Scottish politics, with the Tories and Labour (and the LibDems) being freed from their Westminster head offices to make their own policies which would be purely for the benefit of Scotland.

 

2 points here:

 

1. Why will the Yes movement suddenly be open minded to parties and leaders they have shunned for so long? Hear this often repeated. But if you don't like Davidson now why will that change? 

 

2. Same on policies. The parties here all set their own manifestos. So their day to day policies won't change massively. The Tories will still favour free schools in Scotland. Labour still want to nationalise railways and the Lib Dems will still want to abolish council tax. So what legitimate change do you see happening here? 

 

Quote

As to the timing and spacing of referenda:

What are regular elections if not a referendum on the policies of the sitting government or council?

 

They are elections of representatives for parties who publish broad manifestos on a range of issues to form a parliament of different views to govern.

 

Not a binary choice of two black or white policy positions.

 

Quote

Nobody wants to stop elections because the last result was "the will of the people" and should not be challenged for twenty years.

As folk have pointed out, many old folk who mostly voted No (and Leave for that matter) have popped their clogs since the last referenda and many thousands of youngsters who will have to live with the results are now of voting age.

 

This ignores that No weren't wholly dependent on the OAP vote. 

 

Quote

 

But to be honest, referenda are a stupid way of doing things anyways. 

We're supposed to have a representative democracy, with party policies being the driving force and voters picking the party who's policies they want to see enacted on their behalf.

Referenda reduce democracy to mob rule lacking any kind of independent scrutiny such as parliamentary policy is subject to.

 

Pretty much my view.

 

But honestly, I don't think the SNP have done much to improve the prospects of winning a yes vote. I think they think they have. They've had assemblies and been part of rallies but those preach to the already converted. Personally - on the antics of some leading yes politicians and their prominent backers - that the Yes movement has done a Brexiteers move of late: it's more closed in around the SNP, it's less open to criticism than before and it is increasingly "Yes at all costs".

 

To me - a yes voter in 2014 - there has simply not been a huge sea change in opinion in the nation to allow for a vote nor for a yes vote to win. I'd go as far to say that the SNP or perhaps certain persons within it and the Yes movement are as big a hindrance to winning as certain prominent Westminster politicians are to winning a No vote. 

 

If one were held tomorrow - and I was in Scotland - it'd be a No from me. I don't think now is the time nor will it improve matters to Scottish people. To me it's Brexit with a "progressive" spin.

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JamboX2
9 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

That and EU membership is a question for post independence. 

 

It's not actually. Both are fundamental to how a post UK Scotland will govern itself and operate globally. To suggest otherwise is as duplicitous as saying you will get all the benefits of being in the EU after Brexit.

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Jambo-Jimbo
18 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

If yes wins do we have a decider a couple of years later? 

 

Could well do, especially when pandora's box gets opened by having a 'second chance vote' such as the remainers want to do with brexit, as the precedent will have been set that any losers of any vote can have a re-run if they moan & shout loud enough.

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Lord BJ

I voted no last time but would probably be a soft yes ig a vote tomorrow. In reality I’ll base my information on that available at the time.

 

My vote would be based on a belief that it’s better being part of Europe than U.K.

 

However, the yes movement need to put better arguments forward.

 

I’ll be honest argument like it can’t be any worse than Westminster poor, it could quite easily be worse than Westminster look around the world you’ll be amazed how many governments are!!! Whilst in reality Westminster is just effective as the party government of the day.

 

I also don’t feel any more Scottish than I do British or European, it’s just a label for someone to tag me by. So flag waving arguments do nothing for me.

 

The arguments I felt were pretty poor last time around imho.

 

In reality it would be the likelihood of being part of Europe which would make me flip.

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Jambo-Jimbo
5 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

2 points here:

 

1. Why will the Yes movement suddenly be open minded to parties and leaders they have shunned for so long? Hear this often repeated. But if you don't like Davidson now why will that change? 

 

 

 

Yip, it's a bit much to expect the folks who take delight in calling Davidson 'Tank Girl' and the likes to then suddenly welcome her with open arms as their new Scottish Prime Minister.

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JamboX2
9 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Yep, there’d probably be a DUP type party which would be the current Tories, another bunch of Tories who aren’t Unionists, a bunch of Socialist Unionists, ie the current Labour Party and another Socialist type party that weren’t Unionists.

 

The SNP would disband into all these different pigeon holes once their common goal had been reached or leave Politics for good. 

 

Independence isnt about Parties or Leaders, it’s about Scotland getting control over its own affairs. How can that be a bad thing? 

 

I think this is massively wrong. I think the SNP is more likely to splinter after an election or two - I'd bet on another 2 terms of the SNP in office. But once they start making hard choices - which they will - I think they'll splinter. The other parties won't change their stripes on politics but would be forced to on the constitution. 

 

And I agree with Jack. Within two terms I think we'd have a Tory government doing what Thatcher didn't manage to do in Scotland thanks to strong local government in the 1980s. 

 

And it is in part about politics and parties as Scotland isn't a person or a homogenous entity. It's a very fractured and broad place which will vote different ways in different parts once the SNP are diminished and regional concerns rightly assert themselves. What good voting for Glasgow socialists if you're an Aberdeen farmer or for Edinburgh Liberals if you're a Shetland islander. So the politics of it is important.

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frankblack

I voted Yes last time but the SNP have sickened me since with their hypocritical stance on the Brexit and Indy referendums and lack of respect for democracy.

 

It will be a strong No if the SNP ever get the chance to hold another referendum, and I can't see one happening in the next 10 years.

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Pans Jambo

Voted Yes last time and would do so again.

 

EU

We will soon see what a monumental arsehole we will be diving clean into next April and most will be begging to get back in once they are unemployed, the pound is worthless and about a third of their house value goes. 

 

SNP

There will be a Scottish General election you know and like UKIP, once the SNP can no longer bang the independence drum I suspect it will splinter out into smaller parties or most will be absorbed into Labour/Greens etc.

 

Currency

Seen the SNP's plan to use Sterling. Personally I would prefer to just go for it on day one with the Pound Scots but there you go.

 

Are folk voting No because of the Queen, Empire, Union Jack pish? Or do they really like Westmister, May, Mogg, Boris etc.? Or is it because they think the SNP will be running Scotland for evermore?

Ironically, if there's no Indy ref 2 who do you think will be in power for ever more up here (perhaps in minority but still in power)?

 

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Pans Jambo
Just now, frankblack said:

I voted Yes last time but the SNP have sickened me since with their hypocritical stance on the Brexit and Indy referendums and lack of respect for democracy.

 

It will be a strong No if the SNP ever get the chance to hold another referendum, and I can't see one happening in the next 10 years.

Voting No because of your dislike for the SNP :vrface:

Vote them out after Indy then.

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Boris

I voted YES the last time, and would do so again.

 

BUT...I'd like to see better consultation.  If we voted for Indy, I would want a constitutional convention.  It's not for the SNP to decide how the newly independent country should be set up, that is a job for all.

 

I'd like a second chamber at Holyrood, for example.  Future referenda on the monarchy and EU/EFTA/EEA membership.

 

No reason why Scotland couldn't be a success on its own.

 

Equally, perhaps the British government should look at the way the UK works and perhaps modernise the political system to allow this Union of EQUAL nations to flourish.  But I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Ray Gin
10 hours ago, benny said:

Yes had their chance and got beat.

Would be happy if there was never another referendum in my lifetime.

That's  two now and the way the losing sides have acted in defeat is disgraceful.

Voted no twice.I accepted the democratic vote.So should everybody else.

 

The two main campaign lines from the 'no' mob last time:

 

Promised 'devo max'. What did we get? A Westminster power-grab.

Promised the only way to remain in the EU. What did we get? Brexit.

 

If Westminster don't stick to their pledges, why should we stick with our vote last time?

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ri Alban
29 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Unlike you I would happily change side if I thought my family would be better off.

 

I didn't vote NO because of some huge UK love in, was purely based on not being willing to chance my kids futures to a party with zero post-independence policies.

 

Sort that out and I'd be converted.

I get that, Ron. But the kids don't have a future on this good ship GB. Scotland is a small country who has to structure it's governance and economy to suit it. We can't keep going on this journey of boom and bust. The national debt(Which our kids will be lumbered with) is out of control and is now over £2t, yet no one up here has a pot to piss in, comparable to London and the home counties. 

It's time to change this,  I'd hope a change to  our democratic system to PR and local governance would help create policies to help grow Scotland with parties needing to work together. Also it would stop fptp power grabs which certain parties can rely on. And lastly no more unelected Governments imposing their ideology on Scotland. 

 

 

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ri Alban
47 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

It's not actually. Both are fundamental to how a post UK Scotland will govern itself and operate globally. To suggest otherwise is as duplicitous as saying you will get all the benefits of being in the EU after Brexit.

Yes but it's not the SNPs decision to say we'll have this or that. Put it in your manifesto and if you are voted thro and gain support in parliament offer it up for referenda. 

Personally it should be asked at the next Scot ref. 

Do u want indy? 

Do u want EU membership? 

Do you want a Republic or monarchy? 

Simple. 

 

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jack D and coke
1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I voted no last time but now wish I had voted YES so I could be a millionaire with all the money we were gonna make from oil.

That was a stick that the No campaign battered people over the head with. It was never claimed you were going to be rich because of oil revenue. However it was used to make the country’s finances look better. The oil money balanced Britains books for decades and over the years has funded things like the M25, the channel tunnel, Iraq wars and tax breaks for wealthy people. Really beneficial to Scotland would you agree? Imagine we’d had that money to spend on Scotland’s infrastructure? We still don’t even have a dual carriageway from our capital city to England unless you head along the M8 first. Shocking imo. 

Think nothing of spending hundreds of billions on the new cross rail and high speed railways that won’t come within 200 miles of Scotland either. Scotland pays a share for that though. 

44 minutes ago, frankblack said:

I voted Yes last time but the SNP have sickened me since with their hypocritical stance on the Brexit and Indy referendums and lack of respect for democracy.

 

It will be a strong No if the SNP ever get the chance to hold another referendum, and I can't see one happening in the next 10 years.

You can’t be seriously voting No because you don’t like the SNP? 

:cornette: 

Im not a fan either if I’m honest but they’re the best of a bad bunch. A No vote next time really will likely be the end of the matter. Forever stuck with Rees Moggs and Boris Johnston’s who see Scotland as a place to come shooting with their toff pals. I’d love to know what these people really think of us.

It saddens me that a lot of Scots can’t see any better for their country than that. Told you are subsidised and kept and just keep your mouth shut. 

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been here before

Yes first time and if there's a 2nd referendum, yes again.

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frankblack
55 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Voting No because of your dislike for the SNP :vrface:

Vote them out after Indy then.

 

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

That was a stick that the No campaign battered people over the head with. It was never claimed you were going to be rich because of oil revenue. However it was used to make the country’s finances look better. The oil money balanced Britains books for decades and over the years has funded things like the M25, the channel tunnel, Iraq wars and tax breaks for wealthy people. Really beneficial to Scotland would you agree? Imagine we’d had that money to spend on Scotland’s infrastructure? We still don’t even have a dual carriageway from our capital city to England unless you head along the M8 first. Shocking imo. 

Think nothing of spending hundreds of billions on the new cross rail and high speed railways that won’t come within 200 miles of Scotland either. Scotland pays a share for that though. 

You can’t be seriously voting No because you don’t like the SNP? 

:cornette: 

Im not a fan either if I’m honest but they’re the best of a bad bunch. A No vote next time really will likely be the end of the matter. Forever stuck with Rees Moggs and Boris Johnston’s who see Scotland as a place to come shooting with their toff pals. I’d love to know what these people really think of us.

It saddens me that a lot of Scots can’t see any better for their country than that. Told you are subsidised and kept and just keep your mouth shut. 

 

I have tried to vote them out ever since the last Indy referendum.  Since Sturgeon got in she has been an absolute embarrassment for the country, acting like she is an international leader traveling around Europe trying to sabotage Brexit when in fact she is a glorified councilor with a god complex.

 

I did vote SNP up until the Indy referendum, when their figures on the economy were utter fiction, and their stance on wrecking the democratic will of the people has lost my vote.  The SNP's stance on Independence is that if they lose a referendum they want another one to get the "right" vote.  However, they don't respect the Brexit referendum result and are hypocrites.

 

Voting Independence with this mob would put Scotland back to the stone age.

 

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Boris
8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

I have tried to vote them out ever since the last Indy referendum.  Since Sturgeon got in she has been an absolute embarrassment for the country, acting like she is an international leader traveling around Europe trying to sabotage Brexit when in fact she is a glorified councilor with a god complex.

 

An absolute embarrassment?  

Each to their own, I guess.

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I did vote SNP up until the Indy referendum, when their figures on the economy were utter fiction, and their stance on wrecking the democratic will of the people has lost my vote.  The SNP's stance on Independence is that if they lose a referendum they want another one to get the "right" vote.  However, they don't respect the Brexit referendum result and are hypocrites.

 

Going by what you have written, isn't their attitude to Brexit in line with their attitude to the Indy Ref?  Not sure where the hypocricy is?  But you must realise that the whole point of the SNP is to campaign for independence?  If you lose a referendum, does that mean that you stop for ever?  Of course not.  But, to avoid the referendum, perhaps they should go back to the 1970's tactic?  Win a majority of MP's at the Westminster election and then declare independence that way, UN approved etc etc?  The will of the people and all that...

 

8 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Voting Independence with this mob would put Scotland back to the stone age.

 

 

So you are equating a vote for independence with a vote for the SNP?  Again, each to their own.

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manaliveits105
14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

I have tried to vote them out ever since the last Indy referendum.  Since Sturgeon got in she has been an absolute embarrassment for the country, acting like she is an international leader traveling around Europe trying to sabotage Brexit when in fact she is a glorified councilor with a god complex.

 

I did vote SNP up until the Indy referendum, when their figures on the economy were utter fiction, and their stance on wrecking the democratic will of the people has lost my vote.  The SNP's stance on Independence is that if they lose a referendum they want another one to get the "right" vote.  However, they don't respect the Brexit referendum result and are hypocrites.

 

Voting Independence with this mob would put Scotland back to the stone age.

 

Spot on

Its a NAW from me 

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ri Alban
16 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

I have tried to vote them out ever since the last Indy referendum.  Since Sturgeon got in she has been an absolute embarrassment for the country, acting like she is an international leader traveling around Europe trying to sabotage Brexit when in fact she is a glorified councilor with a god complex.

 

I did vote SNP up until the Indy referendum, when their figures on the economy were utter fiction, and their stance on wrecking the democratic will of the people has lost my vote.  The SNP's stance on Independence is that if they lose a referendum they want another one to get the "right" vote.  However, they don't respect the Brexit referendum result and are hypocrites.

 

Voting Independence with this mob would put Scotland back to the stone age.

 

Scotland voted to remain in the EU, the single biggest factor on a indy no result. So they can ask the question again.

They are the Scottish government its their duty to fight for as much respect and powers as it is entitled to, not roll over to a Tory power grab. And they're not asking for a second euref, the Libdems are. Funny how they don't want a second indyref as its the only way Scotland can stay or reenter the EU. 

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Normthebarman

I was a very hesitant Yes the last time (I only decided to vote with half an hour to go), purely because I was convinced the EU referendum would be leave. Although we weren't guaranteed entry, at least the plan was to join it. 

 

This time, if the plan was again to join the EU, I'd probably be a Yes again, assuming Brexit goes through. 

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jack D and coke
23 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

I have tried to vote them out ever since the last Indy referendum.  Since Sturgeon got in she has been an absolute embarrassment for the country, acting like she is an international leader traveling around Europe trying to sabotage Brexit when in fact she is a glorified councilor with a god complex.

 

I did vote SNP up until the Indy referendum, when their figures on the economy were utter fiction, and their stance on wrecking the democratic will of the people has lost my vote.  The SNP's stance on Independence is that if they lose a referendum they want another one to get the "right" vote.  However, they don't respect the Brexit referendum result and are hypocrites.

 

Voting Independence with this mob would put Scotland back to the stone age.

 

A glorified councillor with a god complex.

Embarrasment. 

Utter fiction figures. 

Scotland back to the Stone Age. 

And you expect me to believe you voted Yes or the SNP? 

You sound pretty much like a hard No and always have been to me mate. 

The SNP’s stance has not been to disrespect any referendum but surely you have to agree circumstances have shifted somewhat? It’s not another Indy ref for Indy refs sake surely you can admit that? It’s one of the reasons we were told to vote No, Eu membership and Scotland will be removed from it. Do we have the right to ask our people if they wish to change their mind or not? IMO in theory we can have as many referendums as we want. If someone puts it in their manifesto and enough people vote for that then the British government have no right to interfere. The act of union was supposed to be exactly that, a union of two countries of which either country can change at any time. Not one, of who’s politicians would be run out of the place, telling the other you’ll do what your told. Which is exactly what happens. 

 

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dougal

Voted No then and would vote no again, should another referendum be called.

 

What I would say is that the SNP could help themselves if they stopped pressing on about independence and just tried running the country. They have the chance to get swing voters on their side if they actually did the job they were elected to do. Do that right and improve certain aspects of the country and then they might see more people having confidence that not only could an independent Scotland survive but the people elected to run it actually could run the country. My income tax and council tax have increased but I don't see that much change throughout the country, and I think there are loads of people in the same boat as me. Just because the SNP's main aim is independence they must not forget their current job.

 

On a slightly different subject, if the SNP were able to get another referendum and they lost, I think that could be the end of them politically. Sturgeon would probably have to stand down just like Salmond did. After Salmond and Sturgeon they have no real decent or charismatic people that I think could keep the momentum going. 

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Smithee
45 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

I have tried to vote them out ever since the last Indy referendum.  Since Sturgeon got in she has been an absolute embarrassment for the country, acting like she is an international leader traveling around Europe trying to sabotage Brexit when in fact she is a glorified councilor with a god complex.

 

I did vote SNP up until the Indy referendum, when their figures on the economy were utter fiction, and their stance on wrecking the democratic will of the people has lost my vote.  The SNP's stance on Independence is that if they lose a referendum they want another one to get the "right" vote.  However, they don't respect the Brexit referendum result and are hypocrites.

 

Voting Independence with this mob would put Scotland back to the stone age.

 

 

I can't get my head round why you'd base your independence decision on how you feel about certain individuals in certain parties - the concept of independence isn't linked to a party or person. I also find it hard to understand why anyone would honestly be more offended by hypocrisy in the ruling party at holyrood than the tsunami of filth that is the Westminster machine. 

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jack D and coke
8 minutes ago, dougal said:

Voted No then and would vote no again, should another referendum be called.

 

What I would say is that the SNP could help themselves if they stopped pressing on about independence and just tried running the country. They have the chance to get swing voters on their side if they actually did the job they were elected to do. Do that right and improve certain aspects of the country and then they might see more people having confidence that not only could an independent Scotland survive but the people elected to run it actually could run the country. My income tax and council tax have increased but I don't see that much change throughout the country, and I think there are loads of people in the same boat as me. Just because the SNP's main aim is independence they must not forget their current job.

 

On a slightly different subject, if the SNP were able to get another referendum and they lost, I think that could be the end of them politically. Sturgeon would probably have to stand down just like Salmond did. After Salmond and Sturgeon they have no real decent or charismatic people that I think could keep the momentum going. 

It’s not the SNP who constantly go on about independence it’s the WM parties. 

Pay attention and see what else they ever say other than No indyref 2. They beat you over the head with it almost daily imo to make you weary hearing it, it’s a very deliberate tactic. 

Can you tell me anything else Ruth Davidson or Willie Rennie it that other absolute joker that labour have up here now mugging people off ever say other than that? 

Ruth Davidson get the easiest ride of any Tory politician I think I’ve ever seen. She’s an absolute arsehole to boot. 

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