The "racist" Murder In Orkney

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Was anyone following this trial?

 

I see the media keep reporting it as a racist murder but as far as I saw no motive was discovered or any evidence of racist angle to the murder therefore I wonder why it keeps getting called this

 

There was a small amount of evidence that the culprit harboured racist feelings in his younger years but surely this along with the fact the victim was asian cant make it a racist murder alone?

[Acey]

Prancer, diving in without knowing the facts?

 

Never!

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Prancer, diving in without knowing the facts?

 

Never!

 

 

So what where the facts that made it a racist murder?

[Nucky Thompson]

I followed the case as well and was shocked that he was found guilty, most of the crowns evidence was circumstantial.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I followed the case as well and was shocked that he was found guilty, most of the crowns evidence was circumstantial.

 

 

Agreed, yes he probably did do it but I think its quite sad that someone who has given so much to his country can be convicted on such circumstancial evidence.

 

I do get the feeling there was a lot more that maybe didnt come out in court though, the police do appear to have suspected this guy since the day the crime happened

[Acey]

edit:

 

The thing is, Prancer, you seem to be utterly incapable of realising that there may be details about the incident that you don't know about.

 

And Deek is right, anyhow. VVVV

[Deek]

Agreed, yes he probably did do it but I think its quite sad that someone who has given so much to his country can be convicted on such circumstancial evidence.

 

I do get the feeling there was a lot more that maybe didnt come out in court though, the police do appear to have suspected this guy since the day the crime happened

 

If the victim or any other person had perceived the incident to be racist, then it is classed as a racist crime in Scotland.

[djf]

A young skinhead who has been videoed claiming that all blacks(?) should be shot walks into an Asian restaraunt and shoots an Asian waiter completely at random.

 

I have absolutely no idea why the press might report this using a racism angle.

[King of the North]

Agreed, yes he probably did do it but I think its quite sad that someone who has given so much to his country can be convicted on such circumstancial evidence.

 

I do get the feeling there was a lot more that maybe didnt come out in court though, the police do appear to have suspected this guy since the day the crime happened

 

So you accept that he was guilty but because he was in the army he should have got off?

 

Even for you that is a new low.

 

Racist bam kills asian - found guilty. Case closed. Why it took 14 years to convict the fecker is the only issue.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I sometimes wonder about the level of illiteracy of people on this site, KOTH cutting half a sentence then trying to recreate what is said is pointless, if you read the full sentence you would see what I was saying

 

Yes there where a lot of coincidences in the trial and based on that I suspect he probably did do it, however no one should be able to be convicted of any crime based on such flimsy evidence, they had nothing solid and the best witness is actually being charged for contempt of court with his evidence thrown out by the judge

 

Acey re items that didnt come out in court, if they didnt come out in court there where a reason for it therefore I dont feel such stuff should then be used for other purposes

 

And re the fact he was racist , to me this alone doesnt make this particular crime racial, yes it probably was but to attach the racist tag to a crime with no evidence is contrary to the underlying principle of the british justice system, and will likely see his sentence increased

 

The fact is the whole point of the justice system is innocent until proven guilty and also that people are convicted based on evidence. Did the evidence really exist to convict beyond reasonable doubt?

[Maximus]

[CJGJ]

Perhaps you should ask the murderer's father (a serving police officer at the time -- indeed the police officer who started the investigation) who was convicted earlier of 'tampering' and hiding evidence in the case -- of course if he was innocent perhaps his father should have relied upon the justice system of which he was a part.

 

In this case Prat sorry Prancer you are perhaps showing your racist tendencies or are we just not interpreting your 'between the line' comments properly.

[Denny Crane]

Given that Prancer once proposed a "kill of refugees" on a previous thread, we perhaps should not be too surprised that he is viewing this abhorrant murder through a pointed white hood.

[Super T]

I find it strange that since you followed the case you chose not to make mention of the fact that, as mentioned above, the accused father has also been convicted during this case.

 

It is up to the judge and jury to decide where the circumstantial can show the intent.

[neobis]

Given that Prancer once proposed a "kill of refugees" on a previous thread, we perhaps should not be too surprised that he is viewing this abhorrant murder through a pointed white hood.

 

100% agree.

[Era Macaroons]

isnt Orkney quite small and therefor damn obvious who did what.

[monkfish1979]

Given that Prancer once proposed a "kill of refugees" on a previous thread, we perhaps should not be too surprised that he is viewing this abhorrant murder through a pointed white hood.

 

Really? Ferkin hell.... Family board and whatnot, that shouldn't be allowed.

 

Also, I sincerely doubt that it's a great idea that somebody who's a known racist should be handed a gun and sent to a country full of people with brown skin. There may just have been a slightly different motive other than "serving his country".

[Corstojohn]

Perhaps you should ask the murderer's father (a serving police officer at the time -- indeed the police officer who started the investigation) who was convicted earlier of 'tampering' and hiding evidence in the case -- of course if he was innocent perhaps his father should have relied upon the justice system of which he was a part.

 

In this case Prat sorry Prancer you are perhaps showing your racist tendencies or are we just not interpreting your 'between the line' comments properly.

 

Agree totally with your first paragraph. Being an Orcadian I followed this trial with great interest. I was in Orkney visiting relatives at the time of the murder and have to say that everybody in Kirkwall knew within an hour who had commited it. If it hadn't been for his father this would have been concluded years ago.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Agree totally with your first paragraph. Being an Orcadian I followed this trial with great interest. I was in Orkney visiting relatives at the time of the murder and have to say that everybody in Kirkwall knew within an hour who had commited it. If it hadn't been for his father this would have been concluded years ago.

 

Yep, I agree, we have club members who live in Kirkwall and they,ve always said it was defo him!

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Wow Im convinced, who needs evidence

 

What his father did is really irrelevent as it doesnt prove the sons guilt and if it had he would have been charged 10 years ago

 

As for everyone knowing it was him, this isnt evidence

 

Now back to the point of the post was there any evidence the murder was racially motivated ?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Wow Im convinced, who needs evidence

 

What his father did is really irrelevent as it doesnt prove the sons guilt and if it had he would have been charged 10 years ago

 

As for everyone knowing it was him, this isnt evidence

 

Now back to the point of the post was there any evidence the murder was racially motivated ?

 

From the little I've read, there doesn't seem to be much concrete evidence. But equally, anyone with extreme leanings who walks into a restaurant and shoots dead a random asian can hardly expect to be immune from allegations of racism.

[crazy_jambo_2006]

The bloke didn't get charged years ago as his father saved his son's backside/covered up for him. This is the point. If his father hadn't intervened, surely they'd have nailed this racist years ago. The father's a disgrace. A policeman, who bends the rules to save his kid.

 

They found evidence to prove he was a racist (some of which was shown on tv). One point though - why did the letter-writer wait for 12+ years to write said letter to say they had seen this boy with a gun? Why not do it sooner?

 

Anyway, why are people defending this murdering bam? Convicted murderer, killed some poor sod at random, a waiter who was only doing his job.

 

If you're a known racist and you kill an asian guy at random (by deliberately going into his workplace with a gun) then people are going to say it's racially motivated.

 

As for the father protecting his son..... Recently, a different father who found bullet's in his son's bedroom handed him into the police (got 3 years) - there are occasions when parents shouldn't shield their kids (ie if their kids are doing criminal activity). A mother also handed her two sons into the police for beating a man half to death (dunno if he died though). This mother has been shunned by her family. But she did the right thing. The rest of the family must be nuts to shun her.

 

 

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Wow Im convinced, who needs evidence

 

What his father did is really irrelevent as it doesnt prove the sons guilt and if it had he would have been charged 10 years ago

 

As for everyone knowing it was him, this isnt evidence

 

Now back to the point of the post was there any evidence the murder was racially motivated ?

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Wow Im convinced, who needs evidence

 

What his father did is really irrelevent as it doesnt prove the sons guilt and if it had he would have been charged 10 years ago

 

As for everyone knowing it was him, this isnt evidence

 

Now back to the point of the post was there any evidence the murder was racially motivated ?

 

I have only been following from reading accounts of the court proceedings on the BBC website. The BBC has not suggested that the murder was racially motivated, which media has?

 

The murderer has not been convicted of any racist offence as the breach of the peace charges which included allegations of the murderer shouting racist abuse were dropped. So I am not sure what your point is?

[Rawrrrrrrr]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7739341.stm

 

New twist

 

not related to the reward at all I am sure

[Walter Kidd]

Something very fishy about this conviction. I base this on the reports I have read in the press and the "reward" by the business man for new information.

[Tynie b]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7739341.stm

 

New twist

 

not related to the reward at all I am sure

 

How come it's taken here until now to come forward??

She said she tried to contact his Family and Defence team at the time,Either she's lying,Didn't try that hard or his Defence team are Ferkin incompitent!!

 

?100,000 anyone??

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Something very fishy about this conviction. I base this on the reports I have read in the press and the "reward" by the business man for new information.

 

 

Without a doubt but hey he was a racist and the victim was asian.

 

He must have done it, who needs evidence

 

I dont think this witness will do much good though because of the financial aspect, I also have to agree its completely unbelievable that this woman couldnt come forward sooner.

 

Did he do it? very probably, did the evidence prove that? did it hell

[Jamie_the_Jambo]

I have relations who come from Orkney and who were there at the time. You cant just walk into a restaurant, shoot a man, and walk out again without being noticed. Orkney is a very small place where everybody knows everybody elses business. My relations have said from day one that it was him and his Dad covered it all up. He was a known rascist.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I have relations who come from Orkney and who were there at the time. You cant just walk into a restaurant, shoot a man, and walk out again without being noticed. Orkney is a very small place where everybody knows everybody elses business. My relations have said from day one that it was him and his Dad covered it all up. He was a known rascist.

 

 

Oh well thats conclusive

 

Sadly the above is the exact reason he was convicted rather than any evidence

[Patrick Bateman]

Oh well thats conclusive

 

Sadly the above is the exact reason he was convicted rather than any evidence

 

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence, especially when a number of components fit together.

 

Oh, and a witness came forward years later because his conscience troubled him.

 

The crime was proven beyond all REASONABLE doubt. Case closed, justice done. It's pretty sick (even by your standards) to try turning this into a "loony left" sort of issue.

[Deevers]

Oh well thats conclusive

 

Sadly the above is the exact reason he was convicted rather than any evidence

 

 

My My, as usual an expert who has read a few articles about this in tabloids and decided that he knows the truth of the matter better than anyone else.

 

Personally in this case I prefer to reply on the intelligence and integrity of the jury who arrived at the conclusion that the guy was guilty.

 

 

I'm quite sure if credible evidence is available to dispute this then the appeals system will look at this thoroughly.

[Patrick Bateman]

Maybe this guy did it.

 

We just don't know what "it" was.

 

 

 

[Walter Kidd]

Circumstantial evidence is still evidence, especially when a number of components fit together.

 

Oh, and a witness came forward years later because his conscience troubled him.

 

The crime was proven beyond all REASONABLE doubt. Case closed, justice done. It's pretty sick (even by your standards) to try turning this into a "loony left" sort of issue.

 

I give you:

 

The Bridgewater Four

 

The Birmingham Six

 

The Guildford Four

 

Sally Clark

 

Amongst countless others where evidence was given and guilty verdicts were drawn down.

 

Our justice system is not infallible.

[Patrick Bateman]

Our justice system is not infallible.

 

It's not infallible, but there was some pretty overwhelming evidence, revealed in this article http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4183672.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

 

Why would his policeman father attempt to defeat the ends of justice by withholding numerous amounts of evidence and information unless it was pretty obvious that his son was guilty?

[Walter Kidd]

It's not infallible, but there was some pretty overwhelming evidence, revealed in this article http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4183672.ece?token=null&offset=24&page=3

 

Why would his policeman father attempt to defeat the ends of justice by withholding numerous amounts of evidence and information unless it was pretty obvious that his son was guilty?

 

Who knows? As I say, I only based my assumption from press reports and I think there is something very smelly about the conviction from the evidence presented.

 

My family are friendly with a family from Hoy, and they agree that something smells although they said the father was a "piece of work".