State Responsibility Versus Nanny State

[IronJambo]

56 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

Norway has something similar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinmonopolet

Doesn't sound a whole lot different to what they do in Sweden where you can only buy proper alcohol in certain off-licenses. Supermarkets and the like are stuck with beers at 3%'ish. Lots of pissheads in Sweden.

[doctor jambo]

11 minutes ago, Ministry said:

Increasing tax on junk food is just another way to disproportionately penalise the poor through our tax system. Charging people an extra £1 for a Big Mac meal won't stop people eating them. If you genuinely want to change people's eating habits there needs to be a larger education piece around healthy eating.

 

The junk food tax has no intention of improving people's eating habits, it's just a way of trying to raise funds for the money black hole which is the NHS. 

 

Making private healthcare more affordable (by reducing tax) is a genuine way of trying to take some of the strain off the NHS. 

private health care will reduce hee haw to the NHS

health education does not work

fried rice + chicken balls + curry sauce around here for lunch = £2

 

a decent sandwich costs £3 and is cold

A school meal costs even more

 

Everyone KNOWS its bad for them

they still eat it/smoke it/drink it

 

Despite all the chats/eduction/advice/ tests and reinforcement the diabetics is this country are STILL getting fatter and fatter and fatter ( type 2)

- because they WONT change

-they could cure themselves with diet and exercise - but dont

 

so you need to raise more money from them to pay for the treaments

and we know whats making them fat

so tax it

-and review it annually - if we need more money- raise it again, and again until the costs of behaviour are met by the money it raises

[glynnlondon]

As the poorest regularly have the worst lifestyles re eating drinking and smoking.

Should the NHS stop treating them ?

Should we all pay for our healthcare relative to what we need and with regards to our lifestyles.

If so why bother with an NHS at all.

Should the healthier and wealthier bankroll medical services for those with no regard for their own health.

Hmmmm.

[John Findlay]

29 minutes ago, glynnlondon said:

As the poorest regularly have the worst lifestyles re eating drinking and smoking.

Should the NHS stop treating them ?

Should we all pay for our healthcare relative to what we need and with regards to our lifestyles.

If so why bother with an NHS at all.

Should the healthier and wealthier bankroll medical services for those with no regard for their own health.

Hmmmm.

Price of fags nowadays I'm surprised the poor can afford to smoke. Lifestyle changes have to be made because, very shortly a politician(s) is going to break ranks and state if we carry on the way we are the country won't be able to afford the NHS in that it is free at point of entry.

[SpruceBringsteen]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Despite all the chats/eduction/advice/ tests and reinforcement the diabetics is this country are STILL getting fatter and fatter and fatter ( type 2)

- because they WONT change

-they could cure themselves with diet and exercise - but dont

 

And because as you said it's far cheaper to eat shite than healthily (with many more factors than the cost of a pound of mince. How you going to make a chilli that lasts for 4 meals when all you have is a microwave in your bedsit for example). That Jack Monroe lassie did a big bit about it a couple of months ago, but I think due to the predictable responses launched her Twitter account.

[Ministry]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

private health care will reduce hee haw to the NHS

health education does not work

fried rice + chicken balls + curry sauce around here for lunch = £2

 

a decent sandwich costs £3 and is cold

A school meal costs even more

 

Everyone KNOWS its bad for them

they still eat it/smoke it/drink it

 

Despite all the chats/eduction/advice/ tests and reinforcement the diabetics is this country are STILL getting fatter and fatter and fatter ( type 2)

- because they WONT change

-they could cure themselves with diet and exercise - but dont

 

so you need to raise more money from them to pay for the treaments

and we know whats making them fat

so tax it

-and review it annually - if we need more money- raise it again, and again until the costs of behaviour are met by the money it raises

NHS has turned into a momentary black hole. I don't want to see any more unnecessary money ploughed into it.

 

The myth that it is crazy expensive to buy healthy food is exactly that, a myth. People choose to eat junk. 

 

I dont understand where you are coming from when you say private healthcare insurance will not save the NHS money. If treatment is paid for by an insurer rather than the NHS, does this not equate to a cost saving for the NHS?.

 

Largely agree with you on the education thing though. It probably doesn't work, not to any great degree anyway. I don't think it should be completely overlooked though. 

[Ministry]

16 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

And because as you said it's far cheaper to eat shite than healthily (with many more factors than the cost of a pound of mince. How you going to make a chilli that lasts for 4 meals when all you have is a microwave in your bedsit for example). That Jack Monroe lassie did a big bit about it a couple of months ago, but I think due to the predictable responses launched her Twitter account.

I really do not buy this. Eating healthy is not prohibitively expensive. 

 

All it takes is a quick google search and it is easy to find simple receipes that can be done on a budget.

 

It is astonishing the number of people who claim eating healthy is too expensive but seem to find the money to buy fags and alcohol.

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

I never get this mentality of an insurance policy is fine until you actually start claiming which infers the issue is on the insurer, its the lack of knowledge of people buying insurance and what they want to get out of it is the issue.

 

There is no problem getting a policy to fit your needs but you need to understand that comes at a cost however if you do it on the cheap and you realise it doesnt allow you to claim for something then who is to blame for that?

We have a perfectly good NHS service.

If people want a private treatment fair enough but they shouldn't be able to queue jump. Especially if their illness is self inflicted. 

[deesidejambo]

I don’t buy the cost argument .

 

The poor (or whatever word doesn’t offend) smoke more and drink more.    So they choose to  spend their money on the things that cause the problem.

 

They can afford to eat healthily, they just choose not to.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

47 minutes ago, Ministry said:

I really do not buy this. Eating healthy is not prohibitively expensive. 

 

All it takes is a quick google search and it is easy to find simple receipes that can be done on a budget.

 

It is astonishing the number of people who claim eating healthy is too expensive but seem to find the money to buy fags and alcohol.

Spot on. It's not cheaper, it's easier. They're either lazy or not capable of following a simple recipe.

[Sraman]

5 hours ago, Jamboelite said:

 

Except where what you are doing is causing a consequence to our already strained NHS in which case while you maybe paying your taxes it raises the question of when I feel treatment should be refused or how we create funds from the people who are using the system more, that could come from taxing the very things they are doing and taking the additional money for it but then im not sure how that works in practice.

 

Refusing health case is a really grey area while it would certainly make people think about moderation it is difficult to realistically implement when certain conditions have consequences and those could be misinterpreted as a lifestyle choice.

 

 

 

I couldn't give a monkeys when you feel treatment should be refused. Who are you to refuse anyone anything?

 

It doesn't work in practice. The ridiculous amount of tax taken from smoking products over the years shows that it doesn't work in practice. All that additional cash and still the NHS is "in crisis" if you speak to a Tory, the very same Tories who are diverting the cash away from the NHS "in crisis" and giving it to multinationals to create battery hen type minimum wage jobs to keep the populace far too busy to notice they are being robbed by the very arseholes telling them they need to give over more of their cash that they can't afford.

 

Refusing healthcare is not on, at all. Unless, of course, the patient has the same Tory views as yourself. You lot can piss off to BUPA (as long as you keep paying your stamp to keep the best thing that Britain has EVER done going).

 

By christ it didn't take much for Cambridge Analytica to get you lot on the turn.

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Sraman said:

 

 

I couldn't give a monkeys when you feel treatment should be refused. Who are you to refuse anyone anything?

 

It doesn't work in practice. The ridiculous amount of tax taken from smoking products over the years shows that it doesn't work in practice. All that additional cash and still the NHS is "in crisis" if you speak to a Tory, the very same Tories who are diverting the cash away from the NHS "in crisis" and giving it to multinationals to create battery hen type minimum wage jobs to keep the populace far too busy to notice they are being robbed by the very arseholes telling them they need to give over more of their cash that they can't afford.

 

Refusing healthcare is not on, at all. Unless, of course, the patient has the same Tory views as yourself. You lot can piss off to BUPA (as long as you keep paying your stamp to keep the best thing that Britain has EVER done going).

 

By christ it didn't take much for Cambridge Analytica to get you lot on the turn.