Future Moon and Mars Bases.

[deesidejambo]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

How about a geo-stationary space station above Mars with a cable structure attached to the surface, up and down which a transport shuttle can move?

 

The be in geostationary orbit you need to be in a very large orbital radius like the geostationary satellites are here, i.e. not LEO (or LMO!) so the cable would need to be extremely long.

 

Also Mars often has storms which would bugger things up a bit.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, deesidejambo said:

 

The be in geostationary orbit you need to be in a very large orbital radius like the geostationary satellites are here, i.e. not LEO (or LMO!) so the cable would need to be extremely long.

 

Also Mars often has storms which would bugger things up a bit.

 

Appreciated. We will only be able to reach out into space though if we tap into our imaginations and ingenuity to expand current technological and scientific knowledge. That sounded a bit arty farty, but you know what I mean. Of course if we somehow find a way to counteract gravity, or merely minimise its effects in a constrained volume, it could be one of the most important discoveries that mankind has ever made.

[ri Alban]

On 16/01/2018 at 22:48, redjambo said:

I'm firmly of the opinion that if humans don't find a way to get off this planet and inhabit other planets, we won't survive as a species. All our eggs are in the one basket on this planet, and we're shaking that basket more than we should be.

Do you think that's a bad thing. The less humanity infects the better.

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Do you think that's a bad thing. The less humanity infects the better.

 

We have the capacity for great things as well as terrible things, as is shown on a daily basis. On the cosmic level our race is but at the level of a young child growing up at the moment. I don't think we should give up on ourselves quite yet.

[ri Alban]

48 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

We have the capacity for great things as well as terrible things, as is shown on a daily basis. On the cosmic level our race is but at the level of a young child growing up at the moment. I don't think we should give up on ourselves quite yet.

Probably best if we concentrate on our own planet first, then we wouldn't have to leave or we won't continue with the same mistakes jumping from planet to planet.

Solve all the problems of this planet first.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Probably best if we concentrate on our own planet first, then we wouldn't have to leave or we won't continue with the same mistakes jumping from planet to planet.

Solve all the problems of this planet first.

 

It's a fair point, but perhaps aiming for the stars, or at least taking a bit more interest in the universe around us, would give us some much-needed perspective on our place in that universe and the stupidity of all our petty squabbles. Even if we were to sort ourselves out though, a well placed asteroid could easily take out this planet, or render it largely uninhabitable to humans, so our eggs would still all be in the same basket - to give us a greater chance of survival we need to expand off the planet.

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It's a fair point, but perhaps aiming for the stars, or at least taking a bit more interest in the universe around us, would give us some much-needed perspective on our place in that universe and the stupidity of all our petty squabbles. Even if we were to sort ourselves out though, a well placed asteroid could easily take out this planet, or render it largely uninhabitable to humans, so our eggs would still all be in the same basket - to give us a greater chance of survival we need to expand off the planet.

That's a pretty weak  argument IMO, and to the poster before you yes, I personally think it would be bad if all humans died (can't believe I actually had to say that!)

[ri Alban]

39 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

It's a fair point, but perhaps aiming for the stars, or at least taking a bit more interest in the universe around us, would give us some much-needed perspective on our place in that universe and the stupidity of all our petty squabbles. Even if we were to sort ourselves out though, a well placed asteroid could easily take out this planet, or render it largely uninhabitable to humans, so our eggs would still all be in the same basket - to give us a greater chance of survival we need to expand off the planet.

And over population. So yes there's always a need, but I'd rather we decorated one room at a time.

 

 There's nothing wrong with dreaming as long as it's for the right reasons.

 

 

[ri Alban]

46 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's a pretty weak  argument IMO, and to the poster before you yes, I personally think it would be bad if all humans died (can't believe I actually had to say that!)

I didn't actually mean that, but when you think of it, would it matter.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I didn't actually mean that, but when you think of it, would it matter.

I just got what you meant, fair enough.

But yes, I would prefer that my species continues to exist, it's a fairly big deal imo.

[Sidelight]

Antarctica, Mars revelations are increasing.

This is what's coming.

The origin science community, and this is a paradigm shift, will pronounce that life on earth was seeded from meteors from Mars. The Marsian bacteria protected from radiation under Antarctica ice in warm volcanic water. This is the new line. This news is coming big time. The world will believe.

But it's all deception of course.

 

[Maple Leaf]

4 hours ago, alfajambo said:

Antarctica, Mars revelations are increasing.

This is what's coming.

The origin science community, and this is a paradigm shift, will pronounce that life on earth was seeded from meteors from Mars. The Marsian bacteria protected from radiation under Antarctica ice in warm volcanic water. This is the new line. This news is coming big time. The world will believe.

But it's all deception of course.

 

 

The highlighted bit is a bold, general statement.  What it possibly means is that one scientist is likely to put forward a hypothesis that .... 

 

The notion that life on earth has extraterrestrial origins is not new, and any hypothesis that the origin is definitely Mars will be subjected to the normal vigorous scientific scrutiny.  The most interesting question for me remains, however, and that is how did some chemical molecules develop the ability to self-replicate, regardless of where they were when they did it?

 

The bit about the Antarctic is interesting.  If the bacteria needed the ice to protect them from radiation, how did they survive the deadly radiation in space during the long journey from Mars?  Solar radiation on earth is a tiny fraction of that between the planets.  And the radiation on Mars itself is much higher than ours.

[maroonlegions]

26 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

The highlighted bit is a bold, general statement.  What it possibly means is that one scientist is likely to put forward a hypothesis that .... 

 

The notion that life on earth has extraterrestrial origins is not new, and any hypothesis that the origin is definitely Mars will be subjected to the normal vigorous scientific scrutiny.  The most interesting question for me remains, however, and that is how did some chemical molecules develop the ability to self-replicate, regardless of where they were when they did it?

 

The bit about the Antarctic is interesting.  If the bacteria needed the ice to protect them from radiation, how did they survive the deadly radiation in space during the long journey from Mars?  Solar radiation on earth is a tiny fraction of that between the planets.  And the radiation on Mars itself is much higher than ours.

Good points and overall good questions, time as usual will reveal all.

[Neon]

On 1/17/2018 at 06:17, Maple Leaf said:

I know that we should never use the word 'never' when discussing space exploration, but I'm of the opinion that human travel to Mars poses significant problems that are still to be solved.  And might never be solved.

 

It's variously estimated that a trip to Mars would take around 7-8 months.  In that time, human crew would be living in a weightless environment.  No human has ever experienced weightlessness for that length of time.  A few years ago, Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield was aboard the ISS for 5 months.  During that time, he worked for hours every day doing exercises to keep his muscles in good shape.  Nevertheless, when he landed back on earth he had to be lifted out of the capsule, and was completely unable to walk or do anything physical for days.  He was nauseated for weeks.  He relied on other people to perform the most basic of tasks for him.  He was as helpless as a kitten.

 

Yet the trip to Mars would about 50% longer, and there will be no-one at the Mars end to help the new arrivals.  Based on Hadfield's experiences, it seems impossible that humans would arrive on Mars, disembark, and start to build a station for themselves, grow food, find water, etc.

Just Checked Scott Kelly was on the ISS for over 500 days - I think the way space travel will work in the future is very much like diving where you need come up in stages.

 

I liked this article on artificial gravity - https://www.universetoday.com/121621/could-we-make-artificial-gravity/

 

Your point is a Valid one though Maple, interesting estimates on how long you would have to burn your engines in that article.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

9 hours ago, Smithee said:

I just got what you meant, fair enough.

But yes, I would prefer that my species continues to exist, it's a fairly big deal imo.

 

Me here to be cheerful again, but all humans will eventually die off from this universe. That's a pretty indisputable scientific fact.

 

I think it's a fair point as to thinking about how long we'll be around for and whether it matters if we go extinct having never left Earth, die off in the next 1000 years, or somehow get off the planet and spend millions of years bopping around the universe before the last colony of us goes extinct.

 

I agree it matters. But I think it's a very interesting question to get at *why* it matters.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

Me here to be cheerful again, but all humans will eventually die off from this universe. That's a pretty indisputable scientific fact.

 

I think it's a fair point as to thinking about how long we'll be around for and whether it matters if we go extinct having never left Earth, die off in the next 1000 years, or somehow get off the planet and spend millions of years bopping around the universe before the last colony of us goes extinct.

 

I agree it matters. But I think it's a very interesting question to get at *why* it matters.

Of course we'll die off at some point, I just don't get the whole 'better off without us" chat, it's like the human race has gone emo sometimes!

The Why is easy, like all species that have made it this far we have self preservation programed into us. I'd prefer to put off my own personal mortality and that of my species in general, that's humans for you! Well, the non emo ones anyway. 

[ri Alban]

29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Of course we'll die off at some point, I just don't get the whole 'better off without us" chat, it's like the human race has gone emo sometimes!

The Why is easy, like all species that have made it this far we have self preservation programed into us. I'd prefer to put off my own personal mortality and that of my species in general, that's humans for you! Well, the non emo ones anyway. 

What's Rod Hull got to do with the price of moon cheese?

[maroonlegions]

55 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Of course we'll die off at some point, I just don't get the whole 'better off without us" chat, it's like the human race has gone emo sometimes!

The Why is easy, like all species that have made it this far we have self preservation programed into us. I'd prefer to put off my own personal mortality and that of my species in general, that's humans for you! Well, the non emo ones anyway. 

Delving into the sci-fi here but  what if, and a big if, what if the tech was devolved and we had this future scenario.

 

In the year 2154, the very wealthy live on a man-made space station while the rest of the population resides on a ruined Earth. A man takes on a mission that could bring equality to the polarised worlds.

 

The film takes place on both a ravaged Earth, and a luxurious space habitat (Stanford torusdesign) called Elysium.^[5] The film itself offers deliberate social commentary which explores political and sociological themes such as immigration, overpopulation, health care, worker exploitation, the justice system, and social class issues.^[6] 

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

NASA was formed and still is as a major arm of the massive US military machine. Anyone who thinks they are out to save the human race at this moment in time is utterly deluded.

[Ulysses]

11 hours ago, Smithee said:

I would prefer that my species continues to exist, it's a fairly big deal imo.

 

From what point of view?  The planet would survive perfectly well without humans.

[Ulysses]

30 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

NASA was formed and still is as a major arm of the massive US military machine. Anyone who thinks they are out to save the human race at this moment in time is utterly deluded.

 

Just as well all they ever achieved was a load of fake news. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

From what point of view?  The planet would survive perfectly well without humans.

From the point of view of a member the human race with self preservation in mind, what a strange question!

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Just as well all they ever achieved was a load of fake news. 

 

I hope we do go to Mars and meet up with all these reported wee Martians that suddenly started visiting here, flying about the skies after Flash Gordon started airing back in the 40’s and 50’s. 

 

Thats what I like about the general public, they have some amount of collective imagination given a good old jackanory, they actually start to believe it. 

 

 

[redjambo]

34 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I hope we do go to Mars and meet up with all these reported wee Martians that suddenly started visiting here, flying about the skies after Flash Gordon started airing back in the 40’s and 50’s. 

 

Thats what I like about the general public, they have some amount of collective imagination given a good old jackanory, they actually start to believe it. 

 

 

 

Flash Gordon started airing in the 1930s (and Buck Rogers was first ).

 

So tell me, serious question, what do you think the chances are of intelligent live existing anywhere else in the universe?

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Flash Gordon started airing in the 1930s (and Buck Rogers was first ).

 

So tell me, serious question, what do you think the chances are of intelligent live existing anywhere else in the universe?

 

I think you get my point though, regardless of dates. 

 

Of course there is other life life out there, tons of it. We will ever meet them? I doubt it unless it’s some alien bacteria we stumble across. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

I think you get my point though, regardless of dates. 

 

Of course there is other life life out there, tons of it. We will ever meet them? I doubt it unless it’s some alien bacteria we stumble across. 

 

Regarding Flash Gordon, I think imagination is a great thing, except when people confuse it with reality.

 

Personally, I think the possibility that there is no extraterrestrial intelligent life is infinitesimally small. We humans are noisy beasts and have been sending out radio signals and space probes for quite a while. I think that there's a fair chance that if there's intelligent life in this sector of the galaxy then they know of our existence. However, if I were them, I wouldn't touch us with a bargepole.

[Space Mackerel]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Regarding Flash Gordon, I think imagination is a great thing, except when people confuse it with reality.

 

Personally, I think the possibility that there is no extraterrestrial intelligent life is infinitesimally small. We humans are noisy beasts and have been sending out radio signals and space probes for quite a while. I think that there's a fair chance that if there's intelligent life in this sector of the galaxy then they know of our existence. However, if I were them, I wouldn't touch us with a bargepole.

 

Guess we will just have to disagree. I’ll use common sense and 27 years in engineering including aviation.

 

On your second point, I think you’ve under estimated the vastness of space including the distance and the the speed radio waves travel at. No doubt there will be life somewhere in the Milky Way. 

[redjambo]

20 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Guess we will just have to disagree. I’ll use common sense and 27 years in engineering including aviation.

 

On your second point, I think you’ve under estimated the vastness of space including the distance and the the speed radio waves travel at. No doubt there will be life somewhere in the Milky Way. 

 

Sorry, which bit are you using "27 years in engineering including aviation" to justify?

 

[redjambo]

21 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

On your second point, I think you’ve under estimated the vastness of space including the distance and the the speed radio waves travel at. No doubt there will be life somewhere in the Milky Way. 

 

If I were an intelligent life form (much more intelligent than us, of course), I would have listening posts around the place to listen out for emerging races.

[Space Mackerel]

9 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

If I were an intelligent life form (much more intelligent than us, of course), I would have listening posts around the place to listen out for emerging races.

 

The Cosmos is according to theory 14 billion years old and expanding. You’re also assuming that life in other solar systems  has evolved at a much much faster rate than ours. 

 

I think you’ve been watching too much Star Trek. ?

[redjambo]

31 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

The Cosmos is according to theory 14 billion years old and expanding. You’re also assuming that life in other solar systems  has evolved at a much much faster rate than ours. 

 

I think you’ve been watching too much Star Trek. ?

 

With a universe that is 14 billion years old and a solar system that is 4.6 billion years old, I think there's plenty margin there for the development of intelligent life greater than ours in other parts of the galaxy and the universe. To think otherwise would be very Earth-centric.

 

That's a nice dismissive (but expected) jibe about Star Trek by the way. My apologies for not having spent 27 years as an engineer, and thus having opinions of lesser validity.

 

Perhaps you should watch more Star Trek. As well as the delectable Jeri Ryan, it does get your imagination working at times, and imagination is what allows the canary to guess at what the world might be like beyond its senses and outside its cage.

[CloustonHMFC]

My take on space exploration is this, provided we as a species survive long enough to develop the technology then we will eventually be able to truly explore our neighbourhood in space. This won't be in any of our lifetimes or even our great grandchildren but it will come.

 

I don't think it's completely out of the realms of possibility that there isn't already a species out there who have already achieved this or even visited this planet in the past. Relatively speaking we are a very very young species who are still growing and finding our way in the universe, who knows where we will end up but I wish I would be around when we develop the technology to explore properly. The possibilities are endless.

 

 

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, clouston1992 said:

My take on space exploration is this, provided we as a species survive long enough to develop the technology then we will eventually be able to truly explore our neighbourhood in space. This won't be in any of our lifetimes or even our great grandchildren but it will come.

 

I don't think it's completely out of the realms of possibility that there isn't already a species out there who have already achieved this or even visited this planet in the past. Relatively speaking we are a very very young species who are still growing and finding our way in the universe, who knows where we will end up but I wish I would be around when we develop the technology to explore properly. The possibilities are endless.

 

Perhaps with cryonics you can.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/d634e198-a435-11e5-873f-68411a84f346

[John Gentleman]

On 17/01/2018 at 08:47, Maple Leaf said:

I know that we should never use the word 'never' when discussing space exploration, but I'm of the opinion that human travel to Mars poses significant problems that are still to be solved.  And might never be solved.

 

It's variously estimated that a trip to Mars would take around 7-8 months.  In that time, human crew would be living in a weightless environment.  No human has ever experienced weightlessness for that length of time.  A few years ago, Canadian astronaut Chris Hadfield was aboard the ISS for 5 months.  During that time, he worked for hours every day doing exercises to keep his muscles in good shape.  Nevertheless, when he landed back on earth he had to be lifted out of the capsule, and was completely unable to walk or do anything physical for days.  He was nauseated for weeks.  He relied on other people to perform the most basic of tasks for him.  He was as helpless as a kitten.

 

Yet the trip to Mars would about 50% longer, and there will be no-one at the Mars end to help the new arrivals.  Based on Hadfield's experiences, it seems impossible that humans would arrive on Mars, disembark, and start to build a station for themselves, grow food, find water, etc.

Inclined to agree. We simply haven't evolved to cope with any physical environment other than mother earth.

I think the best bet for the future will be self-replicating, autonomous AI equipped 'humanoids'.

[ri Alban]

14 hours ago, Smithee said:

From the point of view of a member the human race with self preservation in mind, what a strange question!

That's probably the main problem with humans, The Self Preservation Society.

What's that from, Italian job? Cannae mind.

[ri Alban]

14 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Flash Gordon started airing in the 1930s (and Buck Rogers was first ).

 

So tell me, serious question, what do you think the chances are of intelligent live existing anywhere else in the universe?

None.

[ri Alban]

17 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Inclined to agree. We simply haven't evolved to cope with any physical environment other than mother earth.

I think the best bet for the future will be self-replicating, autonomous AI equipped 'humanoids'.

Slaves you mean. And were does that leave us.

[John Gentleman]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Slaves you mean. And were does that leave us.

In time, extinct, either by our own hands or by cosmological intervention (ie, asteroid impact, huge interstellar gamma ray burst etc.)

All life on earth will become extinct in 1.75b years anyway, as the sun starts to balloon into a red giant. I think homo sapiens, as a species, will become extinct long before that based simply on what's happened in earth's 4.5b year history. From a biological perspective, there's really nothing special about us. Many hominoid species have come and gone before us. What sets us apart is that we've grown exponentially in numbers and we're the most destructive hominoids to have ever existed. Therein lies the foundation of our own extinction.

Nature always has the final say in these matters.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, John Gentleman said:

In time, extinct, either by our own hands or by cosmological intervention (ie, asteroid impact, huge interstellar gamma ray burst etc.)

All life on earth will become extinct in 1.75b years anyway, as the sun starts to balloon into a red giant. I think homo sapiens, as a species, will become extinct long before that based simply on what's happened in earth's 4.5b year history. From a biological perspective, there's really nothing special about us. Many hominoid species have come and gone before us. What sets us apart is that we've grown exponentially in numbers and we're the most destructive hominoids to have ever existed. Therein lies the foundation of our own extinction.

Nature always has the final say in these matters.

The End.

[cheetah]

Mars looks shite, I'm staying here.

[Thunderstruck]

And they can keep their Martian bean sprouts if they are like the one that went tonto on the Space Station. 

 

Scary documentary-

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

11 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

With a universe that is 14 billion years old and a solar system that is 4.6 billion years old, I think there's plenty margin there for the development of intelligent life greater than ours in other parts of the galaxy and the universe. To think otherwise would be very Earth-centric.

 

That's a nice dismissive (but expected) jibe about Star Trek by the way. My apologies for not having spent 27 years as an engineer, and thus having opinions of lesser validity.

 

Perhaps you should watch more Star Trek. As well as the delectable Jeri Ryan, it does get your imagination working at times, and imagination is what allows the canary to guess at what the world might be like beyond its senses and outside its cage.

 

 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

 

 

I prefer:

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

 

I prefer:

 

 

 

This official video(from the era) is better IMHO.

 

No photos please from the moon, there’s them bloody conspiracy theorists again  

 

 

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

This official video(from the era) is better IMHO.

 

 

That video probably helped it get to number 1.

 

I know it's unbelievable given the high quality production values displayed in the video, but it was put together in a week as a rush job by a group of graduate art students just so that The Firm would have something to show on Top of the Pops.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trekkin'#Music_video

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Taking a moment away from MemeWars, did folk see this?

 

https://www.wired.com/story/scientists-discover-clean-water-ice-just-below-mars-surface/

 

It doesn't make getting there any easier, but water there would make doing anything while there infinitely easier.

[ri Alban]

Do we know how to terraform yet? See before we go elsewhere, what about colonising under the sea first.

[Ulysses]

23 hours ago, Smithee said:

From the point of view of a member the human race with self preservation in mind, what a strange question!

 

You might think it's a strange question, but that's only because you're not seeing the bigger picture.

 

I have no interest in the preservation of humans as a species.  Neither have you, and no living creature is interested in the preservation of its species.  That's not how DNA works.

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

Taking a moment away from MemeWars, did folk see this?

 

https://www.wired.com/story/scientists-discover-clean-water-ice-just-below-mars-surface/

 

It doesn't make getting there any easier, but water there would make doing anything while there infinitely easier.

 

As a Christian yourself, and I hold my hands up and say I’m agnostic, what would you think of discovering alien life forms? 

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

You might think it's a strange question, but that's only because you're not seeing the bigger picture.

 

I have no interest in the preservation of humans as a species.  Neither have you, and no living creature is interested in the preservation of its species.  That's not how DNA works.

 

All species are designed to self replicate, including humans. What a complete bizarre thing to say. 

 

Too much internet me thinks.