Another take on the Ronaldo saga... (NHC)

[AirHearts]

For a long time I supported Ferguson and Man Utd in Ronaldo's case and was disgusted by Real Madrid's actions. However, having read about Fergie's own tactics and actions

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=741496

I have changed my mind. I hope Ronaldo buggers off to Madrid and I hope ManU will be left licking their fingers.

[deejpee]

I read an interview with the Italian lad last week and from what he made out Roma were only offering a 1-2 year deal. He went on to say how his agent requested more talks and Roma werent very bothered about getting it sorted out.. United also gave his dad a full time job as a groundsman. So its totally different to the Ronaldo saga. Roma were messing the boy about so United moved in..

[Drylaw Hearts]

For a long time I supported Ferguson and Man Utd in Ronaldo's case and was disgusted by Real Madrid's actions. However, having read about Fergie's own tactics and actions

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=741496

I have changed my mind. I hope Ronaldo buggers off to Madrid and I hope ManU will be left licking their fingers.

 

Man Utd didn't break any rules.

[AirHearts]

I read an interview with the Italian lad last week and from what he made out Roma were only offering a 1-2 year deal. He went on to say how his agent requested more talks and Roma werent very bothered about getting it sorted out.. United also gave his dad a full time job as a groundsman. So its totally different to the Ronaldo saga. Roma were messing the boy about so United moved in..

 

The thing is that in Italy (as in for example Spain) professional contracts cannot be offered until the player is (I think) 18. And many English clubs take advantage of it. They don't violate any laws or regulations, but they lose any moral high ground (as in the case of Ronaldo) they might otherwise have. Because English clubs aren't able to produce good young players themselves, they simply steal them from other countries taking advantage of the differences in legislation. I find it rather repulsive.

[Drylaw Hearts]

The thing is that in Italy (as in for example Spain) professional contracts cannot be offered until the player is (I think) 18. And many English clubs take advantage of it. They don't violate any laws or regulations, but they lose any moral high ground (as in the case of Ronaldo) they might otherwise have. Because English clubs aren't able to produce good young players themselves, they simply steal them from other countries taking advantage of the differences in legislation. I find it rather repulsive.

 

But the big teams in these Countries go to Africa or South America and sign players that are at an age that teams in the UK cannot.

 

Swings and Roundabouts.

[Maximus]

I think the rules have changed in that regard aswell though, to sign a player from South America or Africa under 18 they have to sign on a special aprenticeship type contract and find them a School etc. The fact is that there should be tighter controls across the board to stop clubs poaching each others players at this age group, perhaps under 18s should stay in their own country and only be able to sign professional deals over the age of 18. It is an ethical issue and part of the bigger picture of total moral bankruptcy in the game, in some cases the players actually have agreements to sign a deal with their club when they reach 17 but then go ahead and sign for an English team, as was the case with Merida at Arsenal.

 

This lad came across as a bit of an arrogant sod tbh, he though he had a right to be part of the first team squad and train with Totti next season and demanded a bigger wage, even though he has not proven himself yet. This is the problem with the 'sport', from the age of 15 players are already seeking the club with the biggest bank balance. The clubs are losing their identity as they can bring in players from all over and there is no loyalty now and it is hurting the game, especially the English game at international level as it did here in Scotland before the financial collapse. English clubs do this because they are too lazy to properly develop their own young players.

[Eckauskas]

United didn't use a media campaign to unsettle a player or buy his mother a new car in exchange for some photos of her in a United top.

 

United went in for a player and offered him a better deal.

 

Whats the problem?

[AirHearts]

United didn't use a media campaign to unsettle a player or buy his mother a new car in exchange for some photos of her in a United top.

 

United went in for a player and offered him a better deal.

 

Whats the problem?

 

The problem is that he is still a child. You think it is right to lure a child for whom it is hard to know what really is in his best interest? The problem is also that Man Utd stole him from a defenseless club (remember, Roma could not match ManU's offer, not because they didn't want to, but because they couldn't under Italian law) and paid basically nothing for one of the most talented players in Italy.

 

Besides, you could say what you say about Ronaldo. Real are "simply offering him a better deal". They are showing what he could have that he doesn't have in Manchester.

[Eckauskas]

The problem is that he is still a child. You think it is right to lure a child for whom it is hard to know what really is in his best interest? The problem is also that Man Utd stole him from a defenseless club (remember, Roma could not match ManU's offer, not because they didn't want to, but because they couldn't under Italian law) and paid basically nothing for one of the most talented players in Italy.

 

Besides, you could say what you say about Ronaldo. Real are "simply offering him a better deal". They are showing what he could have that he doesn't have in Manchester.

 

Real are using a media campaign to essentially tap Ronaldo up.

 

United won't have dealt with the boy himself, they'll have spoken to his father. Nothing wrong with that. Players often choose to move to clubs because they can get a better deal, it's how football works.

 

It's not United's fault that Roma can't offer him a better deal. Instead of whining about Utd, shouldn't Roma's time be better spent lobbying support to have these laws altered?

 

The above article smacks of nothing more than petty bitterness.

[AirHearts]

Real are using a media campaign to essentially tap Ronaldo up.

 

United won't have dealt with the boy himself, they'll have spoken to his father. Nothing wrong with that. Players often choose to move to clubs because they can get a better deal, it's how football works.

 

It's not United's fault that Roma can't offer him a better deal. Instead of whining about Utd, shouldn't Roma's time be better spent lobbying support to have these laws altered?

 

The above article smacks of nothing more than petty bitterness.

 

I can't beleive that as a Hearts fan you are defending what Fergie is doing... After all he is doing the exact same thing (if not worse due to the young age) as the Old Firm is doing in Scotland. And I'll tell you that most HEarts fans are NOT happy with the actions of Celtic and Rangers. They don't like the fact that young promising players are stolen from smaller clubs. Now why you think it is acceptable in this case, is beyond me...

[deejpee]

The thing is that in Italy (as in for example Spain) professional contracts cannot be offered until the player is (I think) 18. And many English clubs take advantage of it. They don't violate any laws or regulations, but they lose any moral high ground (as in the case of Ronaldo) they might otherwise have. Because English clubs aren't able to produce good young players themselves, they simply steal them from other countries taking advantage of the differences in legislation. I find it rather repulsive.

 

 

English clubs are unable to produce talent? In the last 5 years English clubs have produced Rooney (Everton) Walcott (Southampton) Agbonglahor (Villa) Young (Watford) Barnes (Derby) Richards, Johnson & Hart (City) Bentley (Arsenal/ Bburn) Fraizer Campbell currently at United also looks a player. Theres many more future England stars also coming through.

 

Im pretty sure its 17 they sign professional contracts abroad. Man United arent going to sit back and watch other clubs take advantage and not do it themselfs. Look at what Arsenal found in Cesc Fabregas, Pique also went to United that summer and was unlucky not to make it.

[Eckauskas]

I can't beleive that as a Hearts fan you are defending what Fergie is doing... After all he is doing the exact same thing (if not worse due to the young age) as the Old Firm is doing in Scotland. And I'll tell you that most HEarts fans are NOT happy with the actions of Celtic and Rangers. They don't like the fact that young promising players are stolen from smaller clubs. Now why you think it is acceptable in this case, is beyond me...

 

I see what you're saying, but you can't realistically compare what's happened here with what's happening with Ronaldo.

 

If United had set out on a full scale media campaign stating they were going to sign him plus paid his mother to pose in a United top saying she would die happy if her son played for United, then I'd agree.

 

Do you think Hearts were out of line for taking Templeton from Stenhousemuir for next to nothing? Or Sean Mackle from the Lurgan youth system?

 

These things happen in football.

[loveofthegame]

This happens all the time, as others have pointed out see: Fabregas and Pique.

 

Man Utd have also poached 2 or 3 of our youngsters in recents years when they were only 16- Gray, Galbraith and i think 1 other?!

 

Its frustrating and we get tuppence (50,000 for each i think) but no laws were broken.

 

Real Madrids pursuit of Ronaldo has on the other hand been scandalous. I hope they're punished, and that Ronaldo remains a Utd player for years to come. Dont understand why he doesnt want to hold on another few seasons then make the move.

[Maximus]

Well I don't understand why these kids don't stay where they are and prove themselves with their local teams first, oh yeah, I do actually. Greed. That is what drives the game and the world as a whole unfortunately. Where are these youngsters that Man Unt poached from us exactly? Don't reckon they will get a sniff of a first team place, they would have stayed north of the border if they actually cared more about developing their sporting careers rather than their wage packet, exactly the same as the OF have done for decades.

[Eckauskas]

Well I don't understand why these kids don't stay where they are and prove themselves with their local teams first, oh yeah, I do actually. Greed. That is what drives the game and the world as a whole unfortunately. Where are these youngsters that Man Unt poached from us exactly? Don't reckon they will get a sniff of a first team place, they would have stayed north of the border if they actually cared more about developing their sporting careers rather than their wage packet, exactly the same as the OF have done for decades.

 

The lad Galbraith(sp?) has been out on loan this season to develop his talent.

 

I'm sure Gray has been featuring for the youth team as well.

 

But what happens if Templeton doesn't make it at Hearts and returns to the lower divisions? Are we a disgrace too for taking him away from his original club?

 

The high and mightiness in this thread is bizarre tbh.

 

Every club does what United have done.

[Maximus]

I see what you're saying, but you can't realistically compare what's happened here with what's happening with Ronaldo.

 

If United had set out on a full scale media campaign stating they were going to sign him plus paid his mother to pose in a United top saying she would die happy if her son played for United, then I'd agree.

 

Do you think Hearts were out of line for taking Templeton from Stenhousemuir for next to nothing? Or Sean Mackle from the Lurgan youth system?

 

These things happen in football.

Big deal, Manure will make 4 or 5 times what they paid for Ronaldo if he goes, no need to let your heart bleed for them. Taking a ?30m player like Fabregas for nothing is another story, it needs sorted and Arsey and Fergie are always the first to moan when anyone comes sniffing round their players, you live by the sword etc.

[Eckauskas]

Big deal, Manure will make 4 or 5 times what they payed for Ronaldo if he goes, no need to let your heart bleed for them. Taking a ?30m player like Fabregas for nothing is another story, it needs sorted and Arsey and Fergie are always the first to moan when anyone comes sniffing round their players, you live by the sword etc.

 

Ferguson is complaing about Real and their concerted media campaign to unsettle Ronaldo, as they did with Beckham.

 

There is a difference between whats going on.

 

Why didn't you answer my point about young players at Hearts? Surely we took them for a reduced price as well. Why aren't we a disgrace too?

[Maximus]

AS far as I know we paid transfer fees for most of the young players from abroad that we have signed. It's a different matter when we are taking on players like Templeton form the lower reaches of our own league system (and again as far as I know we at least pay for these players and provide sell on clauses such as with Webster) compared to top talents like Pique and Fabregas who had been brought through a youth system since they were kids and their club will not receive a penny for all the work they put into developing their talents for all those years.

[Eckauskas]

AS far as I know we paid transfer fees for most of the young players from abroad that we have signed. It's a different matter when we are taking on players like Templeton form the lower reaches of our own league system (and again as far as I know we at least pay for these players and provide sell on clauses such as with Webster) compared to top talents like Pique and Fabregas who had been brought through a youth system since they were kids and their club will not see anything for the work they put into developing their talents for all those years.

 

Sean Mackle was signed from Lurgan's youth system.

 

I highly doubt that we paid any money for him.

 

There's nothing to say that United haven't put in a sell on clause in his contract.

 

I just find this faux-outrage highly amusing.

[Maximus]

He is an undeveloped talent, it is Hearts that invest the time and money in training him up to be anything approaching SPL standard. The cases I'm talking about involve top class youngsters who are already near the highest level having been brought up in their club's youth teams. All due respect to Lurgan but I'm sure they are not losing out in the same way Barca have with Cesc, or Parma did with Rossi - those clubs put in the time, money and effort to bring those players through, all for nothing in the end.

 

Not rewarding teams for bringing through youth players will come back to haunt the game in the long run as these clubs may in the end simply reduce the amount of emphasis they put on youth development.