Pub Closures

[Rab Mac52]

Dorlin was heaving on a Sunday night and of course early closing at 10.00pm. It was originally owned by a guy called Arthur Duncan (no, not the footballer) before being taken over around 1977. Didn't last too long after that. May also have had a change of name. 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Rab Mac52

[Erik]

On ‎19‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 00:22, frankblack said:

 

Super pub refers to size not quality.

 

 

Leaving aside the massive loss to Edinburgh's music scene that we have seen since The Picture House closed (all the Gigs go to Glasgow that would go there) we now have a super pub on Lothian Road.  That is bound to end well given the trouble you see there regularly at a weekend.  With a bit of luck this might force it back to a music venue.

At least the other pubs you mention differ in theme and appear independent.

 

Now i'll confess to being well out of touch with the Edinburgh night life scene these days - but is Lothian Road really still a hotbed for trouble these days? The odd occasions I have been out I've seen nothing of the sort.

 

I'd imagine there are probably more arrests in / around George Street than on Lothian Road on a a typical weekend these days.

 

[Do The Dance]

I was going to reply to the same thing. Lothian road surely not had the trouble or reputation since the early 2000s. Can't think of anywhere in the city center that gets major trouble.

[frankblack]

Just now, Do The Dance said:

I was going to reply to the same thing. Lothian road surely not had the trouble or reputation since the early 2000s. Can't think of anywhere in the city center that gets major trouble.

 

The whole city centre is full of bams after closing as I saw only as recently as last month when leaving the Cafe Royal at the end of a heavy day on the sauce.

 

Walking peacefully on my own across from Waverley to get a night bus some dick jumps out of a group and stands in front of my face spitting insults looking for fight.  Same thing happened to a mate of mine the other week.

[Do The Dance]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

The whole city centre is full of bams after closing as I saw only as recently as last month when leaving the Cafe Royal at the end of a heavy day on the sauce.

 

Walking peacefully on my own across from Waverley to get a night bus some dick jumps out of a group and stands in front of my face spitting insults looking for fight.  Same thing happened to a mate of mine the other week.

Yeah, I get that. Unfortunately you're always going to ***** like that any city you go. What I was meaning was a specific area that you would avoid due to trouble.

[Koolkeith]

2 hours ago, Do The Dance said:

Yeah, I get that. Unfortunately you're always going to ***** like that any city you go. What I was meaning was a specific area that you would avoid due to trouble.

George Street now I guess

[Morgan]

3 hours ago, Erik said:

 

Now i'll confess to being well out of touch with the Edinburgh night life scene these days - but is Lothian Road really still a hotbed for trouble these days? The odd occasions I have been out I've seen nothing of the sort.

 

I'd imagine there are probably more arrests in / around George Street than on Lothian Road on a a typical weekend these days.

 

We used to always find Rose Street and Tollcross a bit dodgy at emptying out time.

[the general]

On 10/20/2017 at 17:03, Morgan said:

We used to always find Rose Street and Tollcross a bit dodgy at emptying out time.

 

the good thing now is that with closing times ahem staggered the trouble is diluted 

[frankblack]

On 10/20/2017 at 13:25, Do The Dance said:

Yeah, I get that. Unfortunately you're always going to ***** like that any city you go. What I was meaning was a specific area that you would avoid due to trouble.

 

To be honest I hardly drink in town any more.  I am at the age where I can't be arsed with the hassle you get around emptying out time, and the alcohol price is way over priced.   If you are on your own at the end of the night you are vulnerable to these scumbags, and when I drink I go out to relax and relieve the stress of a working week - I don't need or want the hassle.

 

One thing I did notice is the lack of police - I reckon that if these pubs want these late licenses then they should be paying for the policing of the city centre.  I guess the police were focused on certain trouble spots, with nothing elsewhere.

Edited October 23, 2017 by frankblack

[Boris]

Re the above posts on aggro...not sure if this is related to the pub, or it just happened next to it.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41713221

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

To be honest I hardly drink in town any more.  I am at the age where I can't be arsed with the hassle you get around emptying out time, and the alcohol price is way over priced.   If you are on your own at the end of the night you are vulnerable to these scumbags, and when I drink I go out to relax and relieve the stress of a working week - I don't need or want the hassle.

 

One thing I did notice is the lack of police - I reckon that if these pubs want these late licenses then they should be paying for the policing of the city centre.  I guess the police were focused on certain trouble spots, with nothing elsewhere.

Tend to have one night out a year with wife and friends up town and that's at Christmas. (Actually doing Hearts festive thing this year)..Other times throughout the year with various social get togethers we stay on the fringes and try other areas away from centre of town.

 

Or eat in town and move out to somewhere else for the remainder of the night.

 

Last year in December we went to a Greek restaurant on Rose St then decided to finish the night on George St.

 

Maybe I'm getting auld but there seems to be loads of hyper ****s these days. One moment got a bit dodgy with some of the young team who got over the top with banter when queuing up to get in a boozer.

 

Not a nice situ when you have the wife in tow.

 

 

[moshy]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

Re the above posts on aggro...not sure if this is related to the pub, or it just happened next to it.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41713221

There was bother in that toilet last friday night also.

[main]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

Re the above posts on aggro...not sure if this is related to the pub, or it just happened next to it.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-41713221

The man that died was walking home from a charity do at the longstone hearts club a little further up. Nothing to do with either pub, happened in between.

[davemclaren]

£5.30 for a pint of Joker IPA in the Grosvenor bar after the match on Saturday. They are having a laugh. ? 

[Morgan]

A mention for Leeries Lamplighter bar at the top of Dublin Street.

 

Remember that place Dave McLaren and Jonno?

 

 

[Erik]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

To be honest I hardly drink in town any more.  I am at the age where I can't be arsed with the hassle you get around emptying out time, and the alcohol price is way over priced.   If you are on your own at the end of the night you are vulnerable to these scumbags, and when I drink I go out to relax and relieve the stress of a working week - I don't need or want the hassle.

 

One thing I did notice is the lack of police - I reckon that if these pubs want these late licenses then they should be paying for the policing of the city centre.  I guess the police were focused on certain trouble spots, with nothing elsewhere.

 

So really nothing to back up what you're saying about Lothian Road then?

 

Hardly drink in town any more and the recent bother you've seen has been at the other end of Princes St at the Café Royal?

 

[the general]

10 minutes ago, Morgan said:

A mention for Leeries Lamplighter bar at the top of Dublin Street.

 

Remember that place Dave McLaren and Jonno?

 

 

 

now that was a good pub

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, the general said:

 

now that was a good pub

Roughly when did you go there general?

 

We were from around 1981 until 1990.

[frankblack]

17 minutes ago, Erik said:

 

So really nothing to back up what you're saying about Lothian Road then?

 

Hardly drink in town any more and the recent bother you've seen has been at the other end of Princes St at the Café Royal?

 

 

No, I gave an example a week ago.  Do keep up.

[Morgan]

The wee bar just off Rose Street called Paupers?

 

Sort of opposite the Auld Hundred.

[davemclaren]

26 minutes ago, Morgan said:

A mention for Leeries Lamplighter bar at the top of Dublin Street.

 

Remember that place Dave McLaren and Jonno?

 

 

Spent many an afternoon an night there in the mid/late 80s and early 90s. 

[the general]

11 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Roughly when did you go there general?

 

We were from around 1981 until 1990.

 

it was the other end of the world for me so just drank there on occasion

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Spent many an afternoon an night there in the mid/late 80s and early 90s. 

Great wee pub Dave

 

 

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, the general said:

 

it was the other end of the world for me so just drank there on occasion

Fair enough.

 

Just thought I maybe knew you.

[the general]

13 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Fair enough.

 

Just thought I maybe knew you.

 

usually just went in after being in The New Town    :-)

[Erik]

17 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No, I gave an example a week ago.  Do keep up.

 

How does seeing one bit of bother after a Placebo gig equate to 'regularly seeing bother on Lothian Road' like?

 

I think you're basing your opinion on Lothian Road on a reputation it had 10-15 years ago. Ironically, at the time it DID have that reputation, I spent most Friday and Saturday nights in the area without a single bit of bother. It was nowhere near as bad as some made out back then, and its certainly not remotely comparable now.

 

Again, I'm not going to claim to be particularly in the know on this any more, but I'd wager decent money on the average number of arrests on Lothian Road over a weekend being lower than the Grassmarket, Cowgate and George Street these days.

 

 

[frankblack]

25 minutes ago, Erik said:

 

How does seeing one bit of bother after a Placebo gig equate to 'regularly seeing bother on Lothian Road' like?

 

I think you're basing your opinion on Lothian Road on a reputation it had 10-15 years ago. Ironically, at the time it DID have that reputation, I spent most Friday and Saturday nights in the area without a single bit of bother. It was nowhere near as bad as some made out back then, and its certainly not remotely comparable now.

 

Again, I'm not going to claim to be particularly in the know on this any more, but I'd wager decent money on the average number of arrests on Lothian Road over a weekend being lower than the Grassmarket, Cowgate and George Street these days.

 

 

 

Lothian Road adjoins both the Grassmarket and Cowgate so the bother you used to see was at emptying time with people making their way for kebabs, home or to taxi ranks.

 

I'd guess it is better policed due to its reputation than other areas which may be a deterrent as the police were on hand lifting people when I passed the Picture House the other week.

[Stuart Lyon]

Morgan - when was Paupers opposite the auld hundred? Is that the place that is now Meze Meze?

[Morgan]

8 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Morgan - when was Paupers opposite the auld hundred? Is that the place that is now Meze Meze?

Stuart,

 

it was up the wee lane opposite The Auld Hundred, not actually on Rose Street. There was also a sandwich and salad place beside the Auld Hundred called Nikkis.

 

Paupers was owned by a big guy called David MacPherson and his wife Vilma. 

 

This would have been around 1982/83.

 

Dont know what it’s called now though Stuart - sorry.

 

Edit! My wife has just said it may have been opposite the Kenilworth and not the Auld Hundred!!

 

Paupers was just round the corner from an Indian restaurant.on Rose Street.

[the general]

3 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Stuart,

 

it was up the wee lane opposite The Auld Hundred, not actually on Rose Street. There was also a sandwich and salad place beside the Auld Hundred called Nikkis.

 

Paupers was owned by a big guy called David MacPherson and his wife Vilma. 

 

This would have been around 1982/83.

 

Dont know what it’s called now though Stuart - sorry.

 

Edit! My wife has just said it may have been opposite the Kenilworth and not the Auld Hundred!!

 

Paupers was just round the corner from an Indian restaurant.on Rose Street.

 

was Frenchies for a while and now it is a 'secret' pub

[Stuart Lyon]

also called French Connection - see what happens if you give the right address Morgan!

[Morgan]

4 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

also called French Connection - see what happens if you give the right address Morgan!

[The new West End]

2 hours ago, Stuart Lyon said:

also called French Connection - see what happens if you give the right address Morgan!

The laddie is a bliddy menace

It was something after French connection .. something like Saltire

Now it is a faux private detective agency

[Morgan]

57 minutes ago, The new West End said:

The laddie is a bliddy menace

It was something after French connection .. something like Saltire

Now it is a faux private detective agency

Bliddy menace?

 

Bliddy?

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Morgan
Sorry

[Stuart Lyon]

The New West End - the Black Cat was called the Saltire circa 2007

[the general]

10 hours ago, Morgan said:

Bliddy menace?

 

Bliddy?

 

 

international vodka and beer bar

Bryant and Mack detective agency

[pablo]

Back to the Centurion. I wonder what kind of investment would be required to make it work. It's a decent size in a good location. Would obviously need a significant amount of money thrown at it, name change etc.

[Rab Mac52]

7 minutes ago, pablo said:

Back to the Centurion. I wonder what kind of investment would be required to make it work. It's a decent size in a good location. Would obviously need a significant amount of money thrown at it, name change etc.

 

I started this thread with the same thoughts really. I'm not sure if the "traditional" type of pub is capable of turning a profit. Bars such as Mathers in Queensferry Street still exist but the number of closures highlighted in the contributions above would suggest otherwise. There has been a clear move towards Gastro pubs (Bert's in William Street; The Murrayfield Bar; The Oak) and I'm not sure if the Corstorphine has the capacity for another one. 

[pablo]

7 minutes ago, Rab Mac52 said:

 

I started this thread with the same thoughts really. I'm not sure if the "traditional" type of pub is capable of turning a profit. Bars such as Mathers in Queensferry Street still exist but the number of closures highlighted in the contributions above would suggest otherwise. There has been a clear move towards Gastro pubs (Bert's in William Street; The Murrayfield Bar; The Oak) and I'm not sure if the Corstorphine has the capacity for another one. 

 

Very few wet led pubs are successful these days and they will be in the City Centre like Mathers or near a football ground like the Tynie Arms. But out in the suburbs, that's going to be a tough gig.

 

 

[frankblack]

15 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Very few wet led pubs are successful these days and they will be in the City Centre like Mathers or near a football ground like the Tynie Arms. But out in the suburbs, that's going to be a tough gig.

 

 

 

The successful pubs generally need to keep out the scum or they will lose out on business.  Corstorphine has had a few problem pubs.

[pablo]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The successful pubs generally need to keep out the scum or they will lose out on business.  Corstorphine has had a few problem pubs.

 

That's pretty obvious, but it's not really the reason for changes in the pub industry as a whole. The Torfin isn't just The Oak with some troublemakers barred.

[the general]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

Back to the Centurion. I wonder what kind of investment would be required to make it work. It's a decent size in a good location. Would obviously need a significant amount of money thrown at it, name change etc.

 

i didnt know it had even been done up

maybe if they had advertised that fact ............

[pablo]

3 minutes ago, the general said:

 

i didnt know it had even been done up

maybe if they had advertised that fact ............

 

I didn't know it had been done up either. To be honest a lick of paint isn't really what's needed. It would need to go down The Torfin route to have any chance of surviving IMO.

 

 

 

 

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Rab Mac52 said:

 

I started this thread with the same thoughts really. I'm not sure if the "traditional" type of pub is capable of turning a profit. Bars such as Mathers in Queensferry Street still exist but the number of closures highlighted in the contributions above would suggest otherwise. There has been a clear move towards Gastro pubs (Bert's in William Street; The Murrayfield Bar; The Oak) and I'm not sure if the Corstorphine has the capacity for another one. 

 

Not enough monied jakies these days to keep traditional pubs going. 

[pablo]

 

This thread made me look at the deal with Centurion. Doesn't look too attractive a deal to me. Beer and Cider down 20% since 2015. £44k required to buy the tied tenancy,  and you can expect to turn a profit of £37k. 

 

And nobody from Corstorphine even really uses it.

 

Hmmmmm

 

 

[Rab Mac52]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

 

Not enough monied jakies these days to keep traditional pubs going. 

 

That's rich coming from someone who drank in Leeries. Joking apart, it was a fine wee bar owned by a woman from Buckstone. She looked after her customers. It was taken over by a guy who tried to run it on his own, without any other staff. Became a bit of a pit and went downhill. Eventually became Lord somethings and then closed. 

[Morgan]

Just now, Rab Mac52 said:

 

That's rich coming from someone who drank in Leeries. Joking apart, it was a fine wee bar owned by a woman from Buckstone. She looked after her customers. It was taken over by a guy who tried to run it on his own, without any other staff. Became a bit of a pit and went downhill. Eventually became Lord somethings and then closed. 

The woman was Sheila something or other (maybe MacLennan?).

 

The guy was Robert Riley I think.

[Morgan]

14 hours ago, The new West End said:

The laddie is a bliddy menace

It was something after French connection .. something like Saltire

Now it is a faux private detective agency

The first line of this post has completely lost me.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Morgan said:

The woman was Sheila something or other (maybe MacLennan?).

 

The guy was Robert Riley I think.

That’s correct. Went downhill after they left and we decamped to Tiles for a few years. 

[Rab Mac52]

8 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

This thread made me look at the deal with Centurion. Doesn't look too attractive a deal to me. Beer and Cider down 20% since 2015. £44k required to buy the tied tenancy,  and you can expect to turn a profit of £37k. 

 

And nobody from Corstorphine even really uses it.

 

Hmmmmm

 

 

 

 

I say, beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.