ri Alban Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, JAYEL said: We never voted for a deal We voted to leave the EU No deal please And onto Independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, XB52 said: so why the hell derail this thread with this stuff then?? If you want to have a go at the evil Palestinians start a thread about it. Surely there is enough rubbish regarding Brexit to keep this thread more or less on track Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, XB52 said: so why the hell derail this thread with this stuff then?? If you want to have a go at the evil Palestinians start a thread about it. Surely there is enough rubbish regarding Brexit to keep this thread more or less on track He didn't he was using it while making a point to the Irish chap. James is the one who derailed it. Just my opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, JAYEL said: We never voted for a deal We voted to leave the EU No deal please Do you know how much of a bad idea that is? We're talking food shortages and huge devaluation of the pound. Regardless of your view of the EU/migrants/whatever, everyone* will be hit by this. *Except the likes of Jacob Reese Mogg, whose investment fund stands to make a lot of money in a no deal scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Toggie88 said: Do you know how much of a bad idea that is? We're talking food shortages and huge devaluation of the pound. Regardless of your view of the EU/migrants/whatever, everyone* will be hit by this. *Except the likes of Jacob Reese Mogg, whose investment fund stands to make a lot of money in a no deal scenario. Who exactly is talking about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: Who exactly is talking about that? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/09/brexit-utopia-receding-dream-food-shortage-fruit-veg-supplier https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/project-fact-how-scared-should-we-really-be-of-a-no-deal/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 39 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: He didn't he was using it while making a point to the Irish chap. James is the one who derailed it. Just my opinion though. I didnt mention anything about Palestine first. He did. Its getting very playground talk. I made my point. Lets stick to Brexit. Plenty to discuss about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Toggie88 said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/09/brexit-utopia-receding-dream-food-shortage-fruit-veg-supplier https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/project-fact-how-scared-should-we-really-be-of-a-no-deal/ An article in the Europhile Guardian talking up the risks, an article in the Eurosceptic Spectator playing them down. Who'd have thunk? The Spectator article quotes some independent forecasts, most of modest short term economic impact well within the uncertainty of all such forecasts. At Christmas a number of stories appeared about a forecast that the French economy would "leapfrog" the UK to become the fifth biggest in the world this year (not clear what account was taken of the gilets jaunes effect) with the implication this was down to Brexit. You had to read some way beyond headlines to discover that the forecast was that the UK would return to fifth position in 2020 and remain there until 2033. Edited January 10, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: An article in the Europhile Guardian talking up the risks, an article in the Eurosceptic Spectator playing them down. Who'd have thunk? The Spectator article quotes some independent forecasts, most of modest short term economic impact well within the uncertainty of all such forecasts. At Christmas a number of stories appeared about a forecast that the French economy would "leapfrog" the UK to become the fifth biggest in the world this year (not clear what account was taken of the gilets jaunes effect) with the implication this was down to Brexit. You had to read some way beyond headlines to discover that the forecast was that the UK would return to fifth position in 2020 and remain there until 2033. You asked who had been talking about food shortages as if it was the first time anyone had mentioned it. I provided you sources from two reputable publications discussing the possibility published within the last 24 hours. I never made any comment on the articles other than to show that the issue was being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) This is going to be an absolute cluster **** of epic proportions. Even as a remainer, I could see that there was a possibility Brexit could have ended up fine if handled properly. Hell, even a no-deal Brexit could have been manageable if properly prepared and planned for. But this whole process has been one of legendary levels of ineptitude, ****wittery and good old fashioned political arseholery. It's a ****ing disgrace. Edited January 10, 2019 by Normthebarman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Normthebarman said: This is going to be an absolute cluster **** of epic proportions. Even as a remainer, I could see that there was a possibility Brexit could have ended up fine if handled properly. Hell, even a no-deal Brexit could have been manageable if properly prepared and planned for. But this whole process has been one of legendary levels of ineptitude, ****wittery and good old fashioned political arseholery. It's a ****ing disgrace. All comes down to the fact that people like David Davis started out thinking they’d dictate everything without any comeback or opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: All comes down to the fact that people like David Davis started out thinking they’d dictate everything without any comeback or opposition. It started from the misguided startpoint of thinking Britain was some kind of world power in political and economic terms. A misconception shared by a large number of those that voted leave. Absolutely zero awareness of where Britain sits in the grand scheme of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 10 hours ago, doctor jambo said: That was one hell of a selective quote! The politicos took a massive stick and poked the hornets nest. To use the murder of Jo Cox to try and stop people voicing justified anger is a bit much, frankly. Especially when the "left" skirt around condemning Palestinians , or in the case of Corbyn the IRA. Politicians of all badge are going to have to accept the public were already strained before Brexit- they are going to take so stick No excuses. I know where the line should be drawn. It's up to you where you think it should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 A rarity of a serious examination of Labour's Brexit roadmap on Newsnight, despite the best efforts of Kirsty Wark and Nick Watney to completely misrepresent Labour's stated position. Possibly not willfully, perhaps accidentally via not having paid any interest to it thus far. It's a common thing. "Don't know Labour's position... ". You maybe should have paid more attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 hours ago, Toggie88 said: Do you know how much of a bad idea that is? We're talking food shortages and huge devaluation of the pound. Regardless of your view of the EU/migrants/whatever, everyone* will be hit by this. *Except the likes of Jacob Reese Mogg, whose investment fund stands to make a lot of money in a no deal scenario. I am still waiting on the devastating emergency budget we were going to have if we voted out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 13 hours ago, Victorian said: A rarity of a serious examination of Labour's Brexit roadmap on Newsnight, despite the best efforts of Kirsty Wark and Nick Watney to completely misrepresent Labour's stated position. Possibly not willfully, perhaps accidentally via not having paid any interest to it thus far. It's a common thing. "Don't know Labour's position... ". You maybe should have paid more attention. But is the Labour Brexit position credible? Throughout the current Brexit negotiation the EU has been clear and consistent on its view of the Single Market. It holds to a line, understandably, that the Single Market is indivisible, not to be cherry picked and comprises the free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour – the "four freedoms. Labour's position of " retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union " is simply not an option when also recognising that " Freedom of movement will end when we leave the European Union ". After 2 years of living with the simple reality of the EU position it is fanciful at best, dishonest at worse, to put this forward. The only way I can see to square this circle is for Labour to commit to revoke Article 50. Campaign to deliver a Brexit on the (aspirational/delusional) approach outlined in their manifesto on the commitment that the final deal will be put to a referendum on a straight accept Labour's final negotiated Brexit/Remain option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Brexit doom: The idea of food shortages was a media misinterpretation of reports that some foods would be held up or even denied when entering the UK. The suggestion was not that there would be no food, simply that some food stuffs that we take for granted may not be on our shelves for a period of time while the markets sorts itself out eg summer fruits in winter. Panic buying among the half wits who are spreading this story as fact (plenty on here) may cause some acute shortages of important food stuffs but there will still be plenty to eat if you can afford to buy it. The volatility in the markets predicted even for next week should the vote go a certain way, could cause short term problems but is unlikely to be calamitous. I think we'll all survive downward pressure on the market. However, the city is likely to lose 10-20% of its value, any more than that and it could have pretty serious consequences for some people. If you rely on house prices for instance, you'll have problems. If your pension plan is dependent on property and you're retiring soon, think again. Related to that though, the big threats to our well being from Brexit, deal or no deal, will be longer term. Clearly the biggest is shortage of Labour. If we don't have people to do the jobs that support economic growth and sustainability then the economy will shrink and people could suffer. Anecdotal evidence is that a lot of Eastern European low paid workers have already booked their tickets home and will only return if they see stability in the future (and of course if low paid workers are allowed to return) and haven't found a better life elsewhere. Its worth remembering that 700k Greek Workers have left their country since 2010. On the plus side there may be a fairly sharp increase in pay for these jobs and that would be positive for me. The bigger picture prediction is for the return of global recession (did it ever leave) which seems pretty inevitable now and will happen regardless of Brexit. A Brexited Britain, free from the vulnerability of the Euro Zone (yes we're not in it but we are influenced by it) may actually be better placed to deal with such recession. Nobody really knows. In short, if you're rich you'll probably get richer, if you ain't got nothing you've got nothing to lose, if you're in between hold on because you could be in for a rough ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 UK overseas territories given another three years before having to provide details of exactly who owns all the shady wee companies "based" on their wee islands. They were supposed to give the register to Parliament by 2020 but have now been allowed to not hand it over until 2023, giving them more time for legal challenges and to find other ways of hiding the money. So much for the UK taking the lead against global tax evasion, eh? (This is in the Brexit thread as a reminder of what Brexit was really all about - the UK running away from the EU's rules on tax havens) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Cade said: UK overseas territories given another three years before having to provide details of exactly who owns all the shady wee companies "based" on their wee islands. They were supposed to give the register to Parliament by 2020 but have now been allowed to not hand it over until 2023, giving them more time for legal challenges and to find other ways of hiding the money. So much for the UK taking the lead against global tax evasion, eh? (This is in the Brexit thread as a reminder of what Brexit was really all about - the UK running away from the EU's rules on tax havens) Wonder if that was the same rules that Jean-Claude Juncker when PM of Luxemboug did everything in his power to avoid implementing. Then again might have been different EU rules on tax avoidance/evasion that he spent the best part of 20 years trying not to implement. Edited January 11, 2019 by Jambo-Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Wonder if that was same rules that Jean-Claude Juncker when PM of Luxemboug did everything in his power to avoid implementing. Then again might have been different EU rules on tax avoidance/evasion that he spent the best part of 20 years trying not to implement. Jean-Claude made his name and career out of making Luxemburg a tax haven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 hours ago, SE16 3LN said: The bigger picture prediction is for the return of global recession (did it ever leave) which seems pretty inevitable now and will happen regardless of Brexit. A Brexited Britain, free from the vulnerability of the Euro Zone (yes we're not in it but we are influenced by it) may actually be better placed to deal with such recession. Nobody really knows. Saying on Sky Business earlier today that Germany, France & Italy are on the brink of recession if not already in recession, according to the latest ecomonic data. If true, then the Eurozone and the Euro itself could come under serious pressure, bearing in mind that the Eurozone has barely recovered from the financial crash from a decade ago, therefore a global recession, brexit & trade wars could just about be the worst thing possible for the Eurozone. 2019 could be an interesting year, on so many levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Jean-Claude made his name and career out of making Luxemburg a tax haven Indeed, and after years of defying the EU, where did he end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 It is maybe also worth mentioning that Ireland's economic success is in no small measure due to low corporation taxes attracting foreign businesses to locate there. Of course the idea that the UK might do the same is demonised as a "race to the bottom". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, JAYEL said: I am still waiting on the devastating emergency budget we were going to have if we voted out An even longer wait for the serious economic consequences that we were confidently told would follow the decision to even hold the vote. Edited January 11, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo100 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 The UK has record jobs record low unemployment.So What is the problem.Brexit was a lie.Watch Ch 4. Funny how the right wing press say it is rubbish.Any court case from the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Francis Albert said: An even longer wait for the serious economic consequences that we were confidently told would follow the decision to even hold the vote. Meanwhile in the Eurozone Looks like the eurozone is heading into a sharp recession. Italian industrial production was down 2.6pc year on year. In Spain, industrial output was also down 2.6pc, the fastest rate of contraction since May 2013. French industrial output was down by 1.3pc in November, and Germany, which is meant to be the main engine of the continent, recorded a decline 1.9pc for the month. The eurozone is now seeing a synchronised slowdown right across all its major economies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo100 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 My work 70% E U and will not survive no deal.. Fact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo100 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 China is the problem. U.K. car industry is down due To mobility cars cut by 80% 500.000 a year at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 hours ago, Francis Albert said: An even longer wait for the serious economic consequences that we were confidently told would follow the decision to even hold the vote. The Governor iof the Bank of England came out with some crackers as well Experts ? = Remoaners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 33 minutes ago, JAYEL said: The Governor iof the Bank of England came out with some crackers as well Experts ? = Remoaners I suppose we'll find out, very soon. You probably use the same argument to deny Scottish independence. Oh no, what about our trade with England. Aye, what about it. Free movement with Europe trump's any English trade, plus we spend more on them. Fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, ri Alban said: I suppose we'll find out, very soon. You probably use the same argument to deny Scottish independence. Oh no, what about our trade with England. Aye, what about it. Free movement with Europe trump's any English trade, plus we spend more on them. Fact. Mr Alban, if UK p.l.c. comes out of this smelling of roses then me and all of my Anglophile brothers and sisters might just be persuaded to vote 'Aye' to eject Jockland from this poisonous Union next time around. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Mr Alban, if UK p.l.c. comes out of this smelling of roses then me and all of my Anglophile brothers and sisters might just be persuaded to vote 'Aye' to eject Jockland from this poisonous Union next time around. ? Dead hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Mr Alban, if UK p.l.c. comes out of this smelling of roses then me and all of my Anglophile brothers and sisters might just be persuaded to vote 'Aye' to eject Jockland from this poisonous Union next time around. ? Jockland, Jockistan. Yet if I used the same slurs for England, China or Pakistan I'd be warned. It's funny how that's acceptable. And after all, you could be English. Will I put it to the test. No, I think not. Edited January 12, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Jockland, Jockistan. Yet if I used the same slurs for England, China or Pakistan I'd be warned. It's funny how that's acceptable. And after all, you could be English. Will I put it to the test. No, I think not. Calm doon, man, ffs. Sometimes things could be read as a backhanded compliment. Edited January 12, 2019 by Governor Tarkin Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: I suppose we'll find out, very soon. You probably use the same argument to deny Scottish independence. Oh no, what about our trade with England. Aye, what about it. Free movement with Europe trump's any English trade, plus we spend more on them. Fact. The lessons to learn from Brexit are not to leap before you look, to have a plan and to be honest about costs, benefits and timescales. Yet, the Nationalists on here suggest that we don’t need a plan. We have a First Minister who will take any excuse to talk about a referendum - a First Minister who steers clear of any chat about impact of her aim on tax, spending, interest rates, employment, trade, house prices, energy policy, defence, etc., etc., etc. Perhaps, if the Independence campaign had the integrity to present a program for separation it might find more traction. Instead, every poll in the last year has shown no discernable shift from the 2014 position and that is in the midst of the Brexit ‘carnage’. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 26 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Calm doon, man, ffs. Sometimes things could be read as a backhanded compliment. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidelight Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) On 10/01/2019 at 22:57, Victorian said: A rarity of a serious examination of Labour's Brexit roadmap on Newsnight, despite the best efforts of Kirsty Wark and Nick Watney to completely misrepresent Labour's stated position. Possibly not willfully, perhaps accidentally via not having paid any interest to it thus far. It's a common thing. "Don't know Labour's position... ". You maybe should have paid more attention. Kirsty Wark is a Labour lover. Type of disengenuous Scot I can't stand. Edited January 12, 2019 by Roxy Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, alfajambo said: The future of Britain is in great hands! Ffs. Come on Scotland surely we can make our own way and choose a path better suited to OUR needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 ??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 They included child abuse three times in that list. And they mis-spelled "are boyz" And what is a "fake law"? The chief hi-viz heidbanger got lifted today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 That stuff is fake, or parody, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Cade said: They included child abuse three times in that list. And they mis-spelled "are boyz" And what is a "fake law"? The chief hi-viz heidbanger got lifted today. Don't forget false adoption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ulysses said: That stuff is fake, or parody, surely? This is what they were handing out today. Obviously wanted the world to know that they are big fans of 'pentioners' living in poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sooperstar said: This is what they were handing out today. Obviously wanted the world to know that they are big fans of 'pentioners' living in poverty. Good grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sooperstar said: This is what they were handing out today. Obviously wanted the world to know that they are big fans of 'pentioners' living in poverty. Obviously they have difficulty in distinguishing between "for" and "against". It is either fake or a damning indictment of our education system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -Isaac Asimov, 1980 Substitute "United States" for "United Kingdom" and it explains our current shit-show situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 59 minutes ago, Cade said: There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -Isaac Asimov, 1980 Substitute "United States" for "United Kingdom" and it explains our current shit-show situation. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 If the deal is rejected by Parliament, is that the end of May's tenure as PM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks said no Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Possibly not in Scotland but I would be rather wary of the yellow vesters in the RUK, not necessarily as funny as they are being portrayed (or not portrayed in London tonight) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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