Beni Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 13 hours ago, Francis Albert said: Alternatively: The EU has no obvious alternative source of fish (the Med and Baltic and Black Sea are fished out despite 50 years of the EU Common Fishery Policy) and there are no obvious substitutes for UK fish within easy reach of the European market) UK imposes tariffs on UK exports of fish (perhaps in part retaliation for EU tariffs on cars?) This funds protection of UK waters against over fishing. And UK investment in the UK fishing industry which recovers from long continuing decline in the 50 years of the Common Fishery Policy. Who knows? In a no deal scenario WTO rules apply, they are designed to outlaw the kind of sector by sector, tit for tat tariffs you envisage. A country can unilaterally reduce tariffs, (but this must apply across the board) but can't unilaterally increase tariffs above the level set by the WTO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Whatever the great benefits, or severe financial and employment detriment, of the looming no deal, between the UK and the EU, we'll find out soon enough. Then we'll have the "we told you so" brigade, of whoever has been telling the truth, and the excuses and blame reasoning of those who haven't been straight with the, middle ground, UK electorate. Personally, I'll take whatever comes. I've no other choice, like all of us. It will be interesting to see who has been truthful, though. Looking at these characters decending on Dover does draw comparison with other extreme right wing activity of the past, which was supposed to never happen again. This doesn't fill me with great optimism about the future of "Great" Britain. Apart from thinking that Brexit will stop illegal immigrants crossing the English Channel, which it won't, the major worry for those concerned citizens will probably be when they realise their cheap fags and booze allowance, on returning from the Costas, will be greatly reduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Keep reading how this country is so neo nazi. Yet out of every European country we have the least far right representation in all of our parliaments. As for the rabble that marched to Dover. I'd like to hear a sensible opinion on how we solve the ever growing problem of illegal migration across the channel. Also your wonderful EU and its response to the crossing of the Mediterranean. It's no longer an argument to cry racist. This is only getting to be a larger problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, jake said: Keep reading how this country is so neo nazi. Yet out of every European country we have the least far right representation in all of our parliaments. As for the rabble that marched to Dover. I'd like to hear a sensible opinion on how we solve the ever growing problem of illegal migration across the channel. Also your wonderful EU and its response to the crossing of the Mediterranean. It's no longer an argument to cry racist. This is only getting to be a larger problem. Maybe these parliaments have a PR system and would possibly account for this. The Westminster system is outdated. Edited September 6, 2020 by The Real Maroonblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 22 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Maybe these parliaments have a PR system and would possibly account for this. The Westminster system is outdated. Even allowing for PR we dont have the same mainstream representation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, jake said: Even allowing for PR we dont have the same mainstream representation. True, whether that will change remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: True, whether that will change remains to be seen. Imo that depends on whether we can have debate on issues which if just closed down will see many opt for those who have a deeper far right agenda. I've every sympathy with the poor souls who risk their lives crossing open seas. We can only imagine the life they leave behind. The problem will only grow. Australia certainly employed draconian tactics. Whether you agree with that or not . It worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 22 minutes ago, jake said: Imo that depends on whether we can have debate on issues which if just closed down will see many opt for those who have a deeper far right agenda. I've every sympathy with the poor souls who risk their lives crossing open seas. We can only imagine the life they leave behind. The problem will only grow. Australia certainly employed draconian tactics. Whether you agree with that or not . It worked. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work. They were forcibly shut down by the UN. Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 In my opinion, what tends to be forgotten about, is that if the UK and US hadn't decided to invade Iraq, under a false assumption or pretex that they had chemical weapons and intended to use them, all of these refugees may not be on the move. That was the start of the dominoe effect affectionately known as "arab dawn" by the western powers. The western powers have a history of interfering in the affairs of other countries and then leaving rubble, and a power vacuum, behind for the surviving nationals of those countries to deal with. This usually results in a far worse situation than existed beforehand, and has certainly spawned various terrorist organisations and actions. Then people moan about refugees trying to get away from a mess that the west left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Well quite. We're very happy to export weapons and training programmes to these nations but not so happy about having to clean up the mess made with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Cade said: Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work. They were forcibly shut down by the UN. Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Cade said: Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work. They were forcibly shut down by the UN. Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet. Stopped lots of desperate people making perilous journeys across open oceans once word got back . Morally or ethically dodgy . What's your answer just open borders? Ideally we would balance the worlds economy but we cant even balance our own. So please tell me what your answer is ? Or is is just racist and muppet etc . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 41 minutes ago, jake said: Stopped lots of desperate people making perilous journeys across open oceans once word got back . Morally or ethically dodgy . What's your answer just open borders? Ideally we would balance the worlds economy but we cant even balance our own. So please tell me what your answer is ? Or is is just racist and muppet etc . I want only 2 closed borders post independence. The US(If Trump is still President) and rUK.(You don't invite robbers who tanned yer hoose round for dinner) The World! come on in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ri Alban said: I want only 2 closed borders post independence. The US(If Trump is still President) and rUK.(You don't invite robbers who tanned yer hoose round for dinner) The World! come on in. After initial strong resistance to Union, Scotland tanned houses all over the World in partnership with England for 2 centuries, and prospered on the proceeds. Wrong it most certainly was but it's historic fact. If Scotland does go its own way, it cannot disown its own history and blame it on the big bad English. The respected historian and independence supporter Professor Sir Tom Devine, says as much. You cannot and should not falsify history. It really isn't helpful. Edited September 6, 2020 by SwindonJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said: After initial strong resistance to Union, Scotland tanned houses all over the World in partnership with England for 2 centuries, and prospered on the proceeds. Wrong it most certainly was but it's historic fact. If Scotland does go its own way, it cannot disown its own history and blame it on the big bad English. The respected historian and independence supporter Professor Sir Tom Devine, says as much. You cannot and should not falsify history. It really isn't helpful. The Scots of course played a disproportionately large part in the Empire. But ri Alban has a very narrow definition of Scot. Anyone living outside Scotland doesn't qualify so that takes out empire builders and slave owners. If you live in Scotland and vote other than SNP you are a traitor. Fortunately he is not representative of Scottish Nationalists. Though he is not alone in his views. Edited September 6, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 2 hours ago, ri Alban said: I want only 2 closed borders post independence. The US(If Trump is still President) and rUK.(You don't invite robbers who tanned yer hoose round for dinner) The World! come on in. The rest of the world? Are you sure about that because most of it lives in abject poverty. There isnt enough room or resource for us to welcome all. And those who advocate such should really think about what they are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Is this boring shite still going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cruyff said: Is this boring shite still going on? Yep. Same old nonsense being spouted by usually those with left leaning thoughts on how a tory type organisation called the EU is the vanguard of animal ,worker,and general freedom rights. Well said Johann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 7 hours ago, Cade said: Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work. They were forcibly shut down by the UN. Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 23 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: 👍 You can thumbs up if you like. But crammed boats of desperate people are not the norm anymore in Australian waters. And unless you have a different answer desperate people will still die trying to get here Europe and other places. So I'd like to hear what your answer is ? Unless you support people trafficking criminal gangs. Not read a reply from anyone yet. Apart from Aussie who wants a ban on the English and Americans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Covid will be the go to excuse when Brexit goes tits up imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Just now, luckydug said: Covid will be the go to excuse when Brexit goes tits up imo. No "you voted for it so we're just carrying out your wishes" will be the go to excuse from 1/1/21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, luckydug said: Covid will be the go to excuse when Brexit goes tits up imo. Well saying as its pretty much messed up every economy I'd say most governments will be using that. Or is it only the UKs economy that's took a doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, jake said: Well saying as its pretty much messed up every economy I'd say most governments will be using that. Or is it only the UKs economy that's took a doing. It's only the UK government that is exiting the EU in the middle of a Pandemic. You'd think it would be pragmatic to delay the process until things are more stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 27 minutes ago, luckydug said: It's only the UK government that is exiting the EU in the middle of a Pandemic. You'd think it would be pragmatic to delay the process until things are more stable. I've some empathy with this view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement. Hard border in Ireland unavoidable. GFA breached. The very hardest Brexit. UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations. And we're tying to make trade deals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cade said: Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement. Hard border in Ireland unavoidable. GFA breached. The very hardest Brexit. UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations. And we're tying to make trade deals? As our French neighbours would say "Quelle surprise !". This was always how it was going to pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, redjambo said: As our French neighbours would say "Quelle surprise !". This was always how it was going to pan out. I will be surprised if it does. I expect a pragmatic solution to protect business last minute dot com. The EU is set up to protect the rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Cade said: Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement. Hard border in Ireland unavoidable. GFA breached. The very hardest Brexit. UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations. And we're tying to make trade deals? Surely not the “oven ready” agreement? You know, the “fantastic” one that he managed to claim as his, even though it was, more or less, the same as the one May couldn’t get through the Conservative side of Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, jake said: I will be surprised if it does. I expect a pragmatic solution to protect business last minute dot com. The EU is set up to protect the rich. But clearly not the Conservative government ? All this time and now I realise they were set up to protect the poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, CJGJ said: But clearly not the Conservative government ? All this time and now I realise they were set up to protect the poor Clearly they are not. Although Thatchers government raised the standard of living fundamentally . Aside from that how do you think the EU is any different from UK conservatives? They practice austerity. They set policies which favour the rich nations. They bail out to protect multi national (German)companies at the expense of social services. The currency favours the exporting nations. Just because I favour brexit doesnt mean I'm a tory. And you making that argument is convenient . For you anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, jake said: I will be surprised if it does. I expect a pragmatic solution to protect business last minute dot com. The EU is set up to protect the rich. The organisation that redistributes billions per year from the more affluent countries to the poorer countries? A wee bit socialisty for a rich man's club no? One of the big selling points of Brexit was how much it cost to be members. I'd have thought you'd have been happy to send money to the less prosperous nations. Obviously not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 1 minute ago, fancy a brew said: The organisation that redistributes billions per year from the more affluent countries to the poorer countries? A wee bit socialisty for a rich man's club no? One of the big selling points of Brexit was how much it cost to be members. I'd have thought you'd have been happy to send money to the less prosperous nations. Obviously not. Like a benefit trap ? I definitely do not think it's a good thing for the poorer nations. A wee bit socialist? Mmm. I'm struggling to see or find an example of success from socialist economic countries. Two examples. The USSR. Broken up China Booming state controlled capitalism. Fascism. I'm all for well funded services but let's be honest that's down to wealth creation and the EU in general is stagnant. And in fact the UK has been even after the brexit vote(which we were told that alone would crumble jobs economy etc)the more successful. Relying on handouts keeps you trapped. Just like Scotland and the barnet stuff. My opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, jake said: Like a benefit trap ? I definitely do not think it's a good thing for the poorer nations. A wee bit socialist? Mmm. I'm struggling to see or find an example of success from socialist economic countries. Two examples. The USSR. Broken up China Booming state controlled capitalism. Fascism. I'm all for well funded services but let's be honest that's down to wealth creation and the EU in general is stagnant. And in fact the UK has been even after the brexit vote(which we were told that alone would crumble jobs economy etc)the more successful. Relying on handouts keeps you trapped. Just like Scotland and the barnet stuff. My opinion. Not a benefit trap, eg the Republic of Ireland were net beneficiaries for several decades, but are now net contributers, so are now in the position to help other countries grow, and everyone benefits. Off the top of my head examples of successful socialist countries would be Sweden and France, but maybe they're just successful cos they're in the EU. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 1 minute ago, fancy a brew said: Not a benefit trap, eg the Republic of Ireland were net beneficiaries for several decades, but are now net contributers, so are now in the position to help other countries grow, and everyone benefits. Off the top of my head examples of successful socialist countries would be Sweden and France, but maybe they're just successful cos they're in the EU. 😉 France 😂 Sweden and Scandinavian countries in general are high tax high earning economies. The ROI is in essence very conservative. Anyway brew I'm going to bed. Stick in mate 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Cade said: Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement. Hard border in Ireland unavoidable. GFA breached. The very hardest Brexit. UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations. And we're tying to make trade deals? Plan all along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Femi is great at pulling apart the Brexit arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Since sovereignty over UK fishing grounds is such a totemic issue for the Brexiteers, it's worth having a wee look at how the map will look after Brexit has acted as the catalyst for Scottish independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Mysterion said: Femi is great at pulling apart the Brexit arguments. The SPFL came out with pretty much the same comment as Boris after the in-house SFA arbitration decision went their way, despite previously hoping to mitigate the effect of the vote on us & PT by their half-hearted attempt to push through reconstruction. Other good outcomes though - Celtic getting dumped out the CL ....... and hopefully Europa League soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 On 31/08/2017 at 12:18, jumpship said: After the third round of talks. No decisive dicisions have been made. UK demands are simply unattainable. EU, No clarity on border issue. UK, EU needs to be flexible. Its all going well then. Its STILL all going well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Easiest deal in history An oven-ready deal We hold all the cards The 500million of them in 27 nations need us more then we need them We'll get Canada + We'll get Norway ++ There will be no border in Ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT1959 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Jonathon Jones top gov lawyer resigns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montgomery Brewster Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Cade said: Easiest deal in history An oven-ready deal We hold all the cards The 500million of them in 27 nations need us more then we need them We'll get Canada + We'll get Norway ++ There will be no border in Ireland 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 hour ago, JT1959 said: Jonathon Jones top gov lawyer resigns He is apparently 'very unhappy' at his boss Suella Bravermann's lack of understanding of EU treaties and international law. Not great for an Attorney General. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I'm off out to break the law in a specific and limited way. That's OK now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I don't understand the fuss. We're allowed to change our minds after a vote when new information and circumstances change aren't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Costanza said: I don't understand the fuss. We're allowed to change our minds after a vote when new information and circumstances change aren't we? Not when you've signed legally binding international treaties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costanza Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, Cade said: Not when you've signed legally binding international treaties I was being sarcastic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 Boris Johnson. ‘Brexit deal never made sense’ says man who negotiated it, signed it, prevented MPs from scrutinising it, campaigned for it and won a general election on the back of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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