USA Murder 200 innocent civilians in Iraq.

[Seymour M Hersh]

No don't think is being said anywhere in these posts by anyone.  

 

I think honestly it is simply that the US military are increasing bombing raids and drone usage in areas where there are both legitimate IS targets and civilians located.  In order to ensure they complete their intended missions of hitting / destroying specific IS targets they need to increase their payloads and in turn they know in advance that there could be an increase in civilian casualties.  That is what the military believe is acceptable risk when conducting a war against terror. 

 

Not murder per se but these US Generals will see morally they are doing nothing wrong because they have been given authorisation by the politicians to do a job.   All very black and white I know but war I guess is not a game, nor is it fair.  Definitely not condoning these actions but as I said previously, what a world.

 

So no chance the reports of Isis using civilians as human shields is correct then? Fake news probably.

[Rudolf's Mate]

So Iraqi forces ask coalition to strike certain area. U.S carry out said strike and it's the fault of U.S? If that's true of course!

 

 

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[joondalupjambo]

So no chance the reports of Isis using civilians as human shields is correct then? Fake news probably.

 

No doubt IS and other terror groups have used that tactic at some point but if it gets wheeled out time and time again by the "good guys" saying that you tend to get the feeling that it cannot be true every time.  Surely the issue here is innocent lives are being lost and even if they are being used a shields is that not horrendous in itself?   

[joondalupjambo]

So Iraqi forces ask coalition to strike certain area. U.S carry out said strike and it's the fault of U.S? If that's true of course!

 

 

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Don't think it is about whose fault it is.  Regardless of who asked what, who pressed what and so on, it is about anyone involved accepting that there could be innocent lives lost when you go down this route.   

 

I am not saying do not bomb or use drones.  All I am doing here is trying to point out what happens when people do and what the consequences are.  Also the truth, what is that these days? 

[Rudolf's Mate]

Don't think it is about whose fault it is. Regardless of who asked what, who pressed what and so on, it is about anyone involved accepting that there could be innocent lives lost when you go down this route.

 

I am not saying do not bomb or use drones. All I am doing here is trying to point out what happens when people do and what the consequences are. Also the truth, what is that these days?

Very valid points and hands up I don't know anything other than the little snippet of what I read. It's stated that the Iraqi's themselves had asked for a halt to strikes whilst they carry out their own investigation. The US have admitted they carried out strikes on the dates mentioned however they had done so on the request of the Iraqi's.

 

I don't necessarily agree with bombing the shit out of areas that are known to have civilians in the immediate vicinity however if the above is fact then surely any anger should be directed at the Iraqi's rather than the US?

 

 

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[Peebo]

No don't think is being said anywhere in these posts by anyone.

The use of the word "murder" does suggest that, I'd argue.

[joondalupjambo]

Very valid points and hands up I don't know anything other than the little snippet of what I read. It's stated that the Iraqi's themselves had asked for a halt to strikes whilst they carry out their own investigation. The US have admitted they carried out strikes on the dates mentioned however they had done so on the request of the Iraqi's.

 

I don't necessarily agree with bombing the shit out of areas that are known to have civilians in the immediate vicinity however if the above is fact then surely any anger should be directed at the Iraqi's rather than the US?

 

 

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I think in this conflict where there is a coalition then responsibilities, and blame, should be shared but guess that might not be what everyone wants or gets.  If there is a request to do something and the people who carry out the request don't assess the potential problems correctly then whose fault is that?  This is obviously a very complex area hence my view of shared responsibility. Perhaps I am wrong, could easily be.

 

Certainly in terms of the political fallout it probably has to more specific as to who is to be seen to be "blamed".  Someone will have to be accountable if it turns out this is a botched job.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I think in this conflict where there is a coalition then responsibilities, and blame, should be shared but guess that might not be what everyone wants or gets. If there is a request to do something and the people who carry out the request don't assess the potential problems correctly then whose fault is that? This is obviously a very complex area hence my view of shared responsibility. Perhaps I am wrong, could easily be.

 

Certainly in terms of the political fallout it probably has to more specific as to who is to be seen to be "blamed". Someone will have to be accountable if it turns out this is a botched job.

Not wanting to be pedantic but if it was the US on the ground giving the intel then by all means they should be completely accountable. I'm not sure how the US would have been able to verify the relevant information in order to effectively override the request given to them.

 

Still I dare say there's more to come out re this.

 

 

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[joondalupjambo]

Not wanting to be pedantic but if it was the US on the ground giving the intel then by all means they should be completely accountable. I'm not sure how the US would have been able to verify the relevant information in order to effectively override the request given to them.

 

Still I dare say there's more to come out re this.

 

 

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Don't think you are being.  Think this is why I say it is very complex and sure there will be a whole lot of information that is relevant in something like this as well as many, many factors being in the mix. 

Like you think there is more to come but then I get cynical and just think it will be buried in with all the other similar incidents. 

 

I wonder if there is a site that records all these incidents and list the outcomes of all the investigations held? 

[Cade]

So are people saying that the coalition cannot take any responsibility because they carpet bombed an entire area without asking questions just because the Iraqis asked them to?
 

[AlphonseCapone]

The use of the word "murder" does suggest that, I'd argue.

It comes down to whether the US knew there would be "collateral damage" and did it anyway or whether it was a massive **** up.

 

If they knew there would be "collateral damage" and done it anyway then murder is a perfectly acceptable word, they've intentionally taken innocent lives. Calling it "collateral damage" is how these people help themselves sleep at night. A spade is a spade though.

 

If they didn't know and it was a **** up then it's still absolutely disgraceful and more folk should be up in arms to make sure the same situation never occurs again.

[Mikey1874]

It's about time the media started reporting civilian casualties in regime change war zones, as victims of terrorism.

Once Raqqa offensive kicks off there will be more

 

Plus Syrian recording and reporting is much more accurate

 

Got away with more in Afghanistan never covered.

[Mikey1874]

It comes down to whether the US knew there would be "collateral damage" and did it anyway or whether it was a massive **** up.

 

If they knew there would be "collateral damage" and done it anyway then murder is a perfectly acceptable word, they've intentionally taken innocent lives. Calling it "collateral damage" is how these people help themselves sleep at night. A spade is a spade though.

 

If they didn't know and it was a **** up then it's still absolutely disgraceful and more folk should be up in arms to make sure the same situation never occurs again.

Iraqi sources are reporting Trump has 'relaxed' the rules of engagement. A bit less care and caution to 'defeat ISIS'. Victims of an election promise.

[John Findlay]

As a wise man once said. Don't believe all you read and only believe half of what you see.

[argyjambo]

I'll ask you again seeing as you may have missed my question.....Can you tell me exactly how many times America has had direct hit airstrikes on Syrian hospitals?

What's wrong with finding out for yourself? Do your own research instead of clogging up the thread with your trolling thinly disguised as questions.

[argyjambo]

The National gets my money.

How predictable, a scotnazi rag which realy should be sold in perforated rolls.

[Sidsnot]

Exactly? I have no memory of hospital hits outside the afghan French volunteers blunder a couple years back. If you are telling me an intentional strike on a civilian hospital then I'm all ears. I know there was 60 odd killed in a bad intel syria strike on an inhabited area six months back. It should be clear though that the Syrian picture on the ground is even more difficult than iraq and the US objectives or mission is not as obvious.

Answer is three,including a maternity hospital,intentionally yes,same as the Russians,barbaric in its intensity.

Forget Human Rights,forget NATO whom America controls in any case,forget peace talks,remind me,what is war good for?

[Sidsnot]

What's wrong with finding out for yourself? Do your own research instead of clogging up the thread with your trolling thinly disguised as questions.

Eh,who are you again?

[AlphonseCapone]

How predictable, a scotnazi rag which realy should be sold in perforated rolls.

You are calling the national nazis? They are supporters of mass slaughter of jews and the supremacy of the ayrian race?

 

Quite the claims.

[The Tartan Trump]

What's wrong with finding out for yourself? Do your own research instead of clogging up the thread with your trolling

 

 

How predictable, a scotnazi rag which realy should be sold in perforated rolls.