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Planning Application. Bit of good news.

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Jambo66
An hotel in Gorgie would surely clean up when the six nations rugby is on? Two/three times a year I know but...

 

BTW this "Upper Dalridian" while trying to remain true to his proletarian roots and principles is enjoying the slight gentrification of his locale. ;)

 

Superb :)

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Only a Game
Wrong. What you know is that they werent doing it when you asked/werent interested in you. I deal with various companies, and when phoned by recruitment agencies they say "no, we have nothing at the moment" even though that morning or whatever they advertised a position. Maybe they had consulted with an expert before you contacted them?

 

Im not saying they have, as i simply dont know, but then neither do you. Your last few paragraphs are worthy of the EEN. (and sorry if this tone is a bit negative, i did actually enjoy reading your post!)

 

On reflection I can see your point. I dont know for sure. I made an assumption that Hearts had told the truth to myself and the recruitment agency (One that Hearts use regularly by the way) I havent got the letter anymore but the words were along the lines of "We have not yet appointed a consultancy team or operational working party and have no immediate intention of doing so" They gave the same response in an email to the recruitment agency.

 

I accept that they may have actually recruited a team or a company without using an agency, or seeking applications/advice/consultancy from those in the Edinburgh Hotel Industry and simply dont see the need to recruit anyone else. They could have made that clear in both the letter and the email though. Cant see the point of not doing so.

 

Perhaps they simply intend to build what they think is best and hope a chain or an operator will take it on that basis. I cant see anyway they would operate it themselves. That really would be madness beyond belief.

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Only a Game
Nobody seems to have factored the huge developments along Fountainbridge into their analysis of the hotels viability.

 

The Scottish Widows expansion steelwork is already up, HBOS corporate are at New Uberior house and their business banking has been displaced as far down as Grove Street. with the develpments on other side of the road catching up. With the redevelopment of the Brewery site Fountainbridge looks set to see the West end business district extend as far as the old S&N HQ across the bridge from the Diggers abd possibly on into the gap site next to it.

 

Meanwhile metropolitan Haymarket continues to overflow into previously proletarian upper Dalry bringing a host of decent restaraunts with it and while gentrification has yet to really bite in Lower Dalry and while the Lidl isn't entirely out of place the idea that there once was a pub with no windows there now seems incongruous.

 

Gorgie is never going to be city-centre and compared to the Scandic Crown or The Balmoral it's not a great location for a Hotel but it's not that bad and it's only going to get better. As the Centre of Gravity of the city is moving Westward Gorgie is ceasing to be quite as out of the way as it once was.

 

Some people think building a hotel in Gorgie is crazy

 

but 10 years ago you would have said the same about opening Restaurants in Dalry.

 

And I haven't even mentioned the direct tram services to and from the airport and train stations. Which also means that it can be effectively as close to Edinburgh Park as the Marriot or corstorphine.

 

You make some good points but the Fountainbridge area is already well covered by at least seven 3, 4 and 5 star hotels within a few minutes walking distance and the Haymarket plans include at least two new hotels right on the site.

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Charlie-Brown

UBIG also have plans for their St Andrew Square hotel where the former Royal Bank building was - who will own & operate that?

 

It is possible that both St Andrew Square & Tynecastle Hotel could be linked in discussions with potential operators?

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Guest gorgie kev
Just a wee quickie, a copy of the planning app's arrived in our office this morning. I'm sorry, can't tell you who I work for, though a lot of folk on here who know me personally do, but I'll just say, it's a public body who needs to be consulted on planning apps near major hazard sites (in this case NBD)

 

It looks the nuts, and has obviously been put together with all the due care and attention required. At this moment in time the body I work for will, due to some quirky regulations have to advise against the app going through, but honestly, no panic, the council will completely ignore this and it'll be all systems go (we wont appeal against them going against our advice).

 

Cheers. Just thought i'd share that with you kids.

 

NT. :527:

Just a side note.How come Sainsburys was approved when they are practically on top of the Macfarlane Smith plant?

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Dunks
Toggie says it will go through planning no probs.It wont matter a toss if it doesnt Alex n John will call it in!!!!!!!!!!

 

If and when the Council approve the application, it'll then have to be "called in" by the Scottish Government for ratification anyway, owing to the fact that the Council will make money from the application i.e. the sale of land.

 

Usually just a rubber stamp though.

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belburgh

Do you think there are no hotels in the former eastern block countries that have now been upgraded or re-built

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Coco
UBIG also have plans for their St Andrew Square hotel where the former Royal Bank building was - who will own & operate that?

 

It is possible that both St Andrew Square & Tynecastle Hotel could be linked in discussions with potential operators?

 

That one looks like a real financial disaster. Bought for huge money right at the top just before Edinburgh goes into a massive job loss situation in the financial sector and the office market really starts to struggle. :(

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snorkey

The stand looks great, exactly what hearts need. But, why are hearts footing the bill for this hotel?

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snorkey
The stand looks great, exactly what hearts need. But, why are hearts footing the bill for this hotel?

 

Good point, but, the hotel is great, Why the seats on the side??;)

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Csaba's Broon Shoes

There are a few clubs in the UK with Hotels as part of their stadia

 

Kilmarnock being one of which they do very well with .

 

Chelsea village also .

 

Neither are bang in the centre of town .

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snorkey
There are a few clubs in the UK with Hotels as part of their stadia

 

Kilmarnock being one of which they do very well with .

 

rugby park sells Half its allocation, unless the infirm come to town, the hotel was built by an overambitious chairman and lies mostly empty, a white elephant if you will. Source? Killie fans. And anyway, what has the hotel got to do with hearts? you are paying for it, thats all.

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Commander Harris
rugby park sells Half its allocation, unless the infirm come to town, the hotel was built by an overambitious chairman and lies mostly empty, a white elephant if you will. Source? Killie fans. And anyway, what has the hotel got to do with hearts? you are paying for it, thats all.

 

Not true. The money needed for the Hotel etc will not be added to Hearts debt, only the estimated 30m part required for the actual stand will.

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snorkey
Not true. The money needed for the Hotel etc will not be added to Hearts debt, only the estimated 30m part required for the actual stand will.

 

30m for a stand?

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snorkey
30m for a stand?

 

yes steep i know but, a hotel will be built for UKIO for a meer 20m more.:P

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Rawrrrrrrr

OAG, imo is spot on, me and another poster on here having been saying similar since it all came out.

 

The hotel - why would people choose tynecastle over locations in the centre or on the outskirts? If you wanted to be central you would be, if you wanted to be on the roads you'd stay outside

 

The gym- who is going to pay for a membership to a gym, with limited parking and limited access on a regular occasion - not to mention the fact this access will be at peak times such as evenings and saturdays and sundays

 

Flats- who is going to buy a luxury flat opposite a school and next to a football stadium with a lack of parking

 

Shops/Offices- see above

 

All the stuff in theory is good, but location and infastructure imo makes it hard to see them making profit, never mind the money they claim

 

on top of that the gates will be crap if the performances keep up

 

We need a stand, not some deluded vision which will likely kill the club

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Commander Harris
30m for a stand?

 

yes steep i know but, a hotel will be built for UKIO for a meer 20m more.:P

 

are you talking to yourself?

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Only a Game
Not true. The money needed for the Hotel etc will not be added to Hearts debt, only the estimated 30m part required for the actual stand will.

 

 

Hows that ?

 

Every thing I have read strongly suggests ?51 million added to the clubs debt for the re-development.

 

I dont know what the plan is for the hotel. Immediatly selling it on to a chain seems to me to be the most lucrative plan. Immediate return on investment and no running costs. Having it operated by a chain seems the most likely to me, but there's no immediate return of the money there. Thats a lease or rental and profit sharing scheme and the build costs are not recovered right away. Operating the hotel themselves seems highly unlikely to me as the build costs are never likely to be recovered when set against maintenance and running costs and the refurbishment you have to do every 7-10 years.

 

The hotel is a massive and unnneccesary gamble in my opinion. If it fails, and it might well do that in the current financial climate, not to mention the competition and location issues it will have, then that failure will directly and seriously impact on Hearts FC.

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snorkey
are you talking to yourself?

 

yes, you may join in

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Tazio

The gym- who is going to pay for a membership to a gym, with limited parking

club

 

Read a bit more about the development. It includes an underground car park with, if I recall correctly, 150 spaces.

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Rawrrrrrrr
Read a bit more about the development. It includes an underground car park with, if I recall correctly, 150 spaces.

 

 

But say on a match day

 

Do you think its feasible for an on site gym to be open? and even if it was what about the parking for directors etc

 

It seems to me they'd have to get members to sacrifice access at match times and if your paying an expensive membership then you will tell them were too go

 

150 spaces is peanuts really, as the flats, offices, shops, club will need to divvy these up and its going to be a major issue

 

Anyone buying a 500k flat will expect parking, anyone renting a office complex will expect at least some

 

To attract people to shops you need it

 

Gyms need it

 

The only option I can see is the school being turned into a massive car park, and this is probably not the best use of the land

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Csaba's Broon Shoes

I would swap my gym membership at Greens for the new Maroons Club

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Rawrrrrrrr
I would swap my gym membership at Greens for the new Maroons Club

 

 

 

So a few jambos might

 

How many others are?

 

Id bet not enough to justify the operating costs

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Commander Harris
Hows that ?

 

Every thing I have read strongly suggests ?51 million added to the clubs debt for the re-development.

 

I dont know what the plan is for the hotel. Immediatly selling it on to a chain seems to me to be the most lucrative plan. Immediate return on investment and no running costs. Having it operated by a chain seems the most likely to me, but there's no immediate return of the money there. Thats a lease or rental and profit sharing scheme and the build costs are not recovered right away. Operating the hotel themselves seems highly unlikely to me as the build costs are never likely to be recovered when set against maintenance and running costs and the refurbishment you have to do every 7-10 years.

 

I was recalling it from memory. I have since checked the story and it seems I have overstated it slightly. what it does say is that they are looking to bring in outside investment to cover the cost of the non-stand parts of the development. I imagine something like a partnership with some hotel company, perhaps incorporating the site at St Andrews Sq too. My original point to "snorkey" is still valid though, the plan is not for Hearts to pay for this part of the development - but for third party investment to do so.

 

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Hearts---39to-clear.3691617.jp

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Tazio
But say on a match day

 

Do you think its feasible for an on site gym to be open? and even if it was what about the parking for directors etc

 

It seems to me they'd have to get members to sacrifice access at match times and if your paying an expensive membership then you will tell them were too go

 

150 spaces is peanuts really, as the flats, offices, shops, club will need to divvy these up and its going to be a major issue

 

Anyone buying a 500k flat will expect parking, anyone renting a office complex will expect at least some

 

To attract people to shops you need it

 

Gyms need it

 

The only option I can see is the school being turned into a massive car park, and this is probably not the best use of the land

 

I think you should buy some jubilee clips to attach the exhaust of your car to some hosepipe.

 

When was your last positive thought?

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Rawrrrrrrr

My personal choice though would be we punt everything on completion to a fund of investors/pensions etc and get a long long lease back for the stadium only

 

This way we'd clear our debt and have a massive stadium for the cost of the annual lease

 

Id also just bulldoze the school and build loads of flats there for sale

 

We need a stand, nothing else and I think we'd be better off selling up front and clearing our debts/making profit than risking a profit over the long term as I just dont see the ideas being overly sucessful, at least not in hearts hands

 

Wereas selling out to a fund will see it become part of a chain, supported by other branches etc

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Rawrrrrrrr
I think you should buy some jubilee clips to attach the exhaust of your car to some hosepipe.

 

When was your last positive thought?

 

 

Id rather think about it now than wait til we have spent 51 million and realise no one wants the gym/shops/offices:rolleyes:

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Only a Game
I was recalling it from memory. I have since checked the story and it seems I have overstated it slightly. what it does say is that they are looking to bring in outside investment to cover the cost of the non-stand parts of the development. I imagine something like a partnership with some hotel company, perhaps incorporating the site at St Andrews Sq too. My original point to "snorkey" is still valid though, the plan is not for Hearts to pay for this part of the development - but for third party investment to do so.

 

http://sport.scotsman.com/sport/Hearts---39to-clear.3691617.jp

 

Third party investment/purchase of the completed hotel is the only way I can see the hotel being a profitable venture. Dont forget the whole purpose of putting that hotel there is not simply to provide a hotel. Its to make money and lots of it. If you dont have a prospect of doing that then dont build it.

 

St Andrew Sq will almost certainly become a hotel project at some stage. But even undeveloped its a superb property investment with a guaranteed return in the millions of pounds in just few years simply for selling it non for development. Whether that return goes to the Hearts cause or direct to UBIG is another matter entirely.

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Csaba's Broon Shoes
So a few jambos might

 

How many others are?

 

Id bet not enough to justify the operating costs

 

What do you know about marketing in gym memberships in west Edinburgh ?

 

Are you some kind of Mr Motivator ?

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PTBCAL

First we had Hobonomics.

 

Now we people on here claiming to be Hotelonomics.

 

I drive a taxi and also work for a large Financial Institution in Edinburgh. I pick up clients at hotels all over the city - the Marriot is one of the busiest - why - it's near the airport. The sales guys down south come up and complain that the cannot get a decent hotel anywhere and are reduced to staying in travel lodges etc...

 

A recent Council report (July 2007 I think) bemoaned the lack of quality hotel rooms in Edinburgh.

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Coco
First we had Hobonomics.

 

Now we people on here claiming to be Hotelonomics.

 

I drive a taxi and also work for a large Financial Institution in Edinburgh. I pick up clients at hotels all over the city - the Marriot is one of the busiest - why - it's near the airport. The sales guys down south come up and complain that the cannot get a decent hotel anywhere and are reduced to staying in travel lodges etc...

 

A recent Council report (July 2007 I think) bemoaned the lack of quality hotel rooms in Edinburgh.

 

Many people have picked up on the hotel point. You or the more sceptical might end up right on those.

 

But what about the offices. There are vast numbers of empty offices in Edinburgh and huge office building developments all over the city. With financial sector job cuts very likely in the next 2 years, it is very probable that rents will drop and occupancy rates drop. Might not be easy to rent out offices in a MidTown location. Similar issues for the residential development.

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Sherlock
An hotel in Gorgie would surely clean up when the six nations rugby is on? Two/three times a year I know but...

 

BTW this "Upper Dalridian" while trying to remain true to his proletarian roots and principles is enjoying the slight gentrification of his locale. ;)

 

This 'Lower Dalridian' is slightly disconcerted at Topcat's one untruth in an otherwise excellent post

 

...gentrification has yet to really bite in Lower Dalry and while the Lidl isn't entirely out of place...

 

FWIW, IMO, the gentrification of Lower Dalry began approx 8 years ago. ;)

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Fenerjambo

Whare's his planning for a manager and some decent players?? Far more important than a hotel and bigger superstore!!:mad:

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topcat
This 'Lower Dalridian' is slightly disconcerted at Topcat's one untruth in an otherwise excellent post

 

FWIW, IMO, the gentrification of Lower Dalry began approx 8 years ago. ;)

 

Would that be when you moved in, or was it when the Clock Inn was demolished?

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Sherlock
Would that be when you moved in, or was it when the Clock Inn was demolished?

 

When i moved in, naturally!

 

Although the Clock going helped the process.;)

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redm
But say on a match day

 

Do you think its feasible for an on site gym to be open? and even if it was what about the parking for directors etc

 

It seems to me they'd have to get members to sacrifice access at match times and if your paying an expensive membership then you will tell them were too go.

 

Its not really one of the bigger issues is it? I haven't a clue about gyms but I daresay that the club will have considered these issues. There are gyms all over the city centre that don't have ANY parking of their own, and they seem to manage. A gym that might be a bit difficult to use for 3-4 hours every second weekend isn't that huge a problem.

 

150 spaces is peanuts really, as the flats, offices, shops, club will need to divvy these up and its going to be a major issue

 

I can't be sure about this, I'd have to go back through the application stuff to check...but I think they said there were an additional 70 spaces at ground level somewhere? Even then, maybe its just me but I don't really get this huge problem with parking...I've never ever had a problem getting parked before a game but then, I don't try and park on McLeod Street or in Westfield. Polwarth is fine for those of us who have two fully functional legs and can walk for 5 minutes. :)

 

Anyone buying a 500k flat will expect parking, anyone renting a office complex will expect at least some

 

To attract people to shops you need it

 

Gyms need it

 

The only option I can see is the school being turned into a massive car park, and this is probably not the best use of the land

 

There are only eight flats, people don't tend to work in offices at the weekend (peak time for stadium, shops and gym) and I think you're maybe overestimating the size of the development...it's not a huge retail complex they're building.

 

Don't sweat the small stuff, if the council don't think there's adequate provision for parking...they'll make them change the plans. That's kinda what the traffic impact assessment is for...amongst other things. :)

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269miles
OAG, imo is spot on, me and another poster on here having been saying similar since it all came out.

 

The hotel - why would people choose tynecastle over locations in the centre or on the outskirts? If you wanted to be central you would be, if you wanted to be on the roads you'd stay outside

 

The gym- who is going to pay for a membership to a gym, with limited parking and limited access on a regular occasion - not to mention the fact this access will be at peak times such as evenings and saturdays and sundays

 

Flats- who is going to buy a luxury flat opposite a school and next to a football stadium with a lack of parking

 

Shops/Offices- see above

 

All the stuff in theory is good, but location and infastructure imo makes it hard to see them making profit, never mind the money they claim

 

on top of that the gates will be crap if the performances keep up

 

We need a stand, not some deluded vision which will likely kill the club

 

 

The hotel - as I've posted before , I've spent a lot of time working in the Reading area. The hotel at their ground is/was regularly fully booked. It's on a retail park on the M4 , miles from anywhere (ie not 1 mile or so from the most beautiful streets in the most popular city in the UK for shortbreaks). I agree with other posters about the current worries for the global economy but in the longer term this has got to be a money spinner, surely. Only time will tell.

 

Flats - unless Vlad is flogging them off at too high a price , I would be amazed if this is a white elephant.

 

The gym - who knows. There are always people who will join for the kudos of being a member there.

 

Shops/offices - I'd probably agree , this does look risky (especially the shops).

 

But you can't fault Vlad for trying.

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Seymour M Hersh
Corporate guests (thats the ones who keep the Edinburgh hotel industry alive for 8 months of the year) want to be bang in the city centre, unless an out of town (centre) hotel has something right on its doorstep they want to visit. Nothing in the Gorgie area I can think of would attract significant numbers of corporate guests AWAY from the hotels they currently use.(And you would have to poach them from other hotels) That means as well as being top class, you have to be cheap, not an ideal position for a new build hotel and any chain getting involved in the running of it (I understand it will be offered to a chain to run) will take that into account when talking hard cash.

 

Edinburgh has a shortage of hotels for about 8 weeks a year. The whole of August, half of September, Rugby weekends and a couple of big conferences. The rest of the time its a highly competitive market and Edinburgh is rarely out of space. There isnt one single 4 star hotel in Edinburgh that achieves more than 92% occupancy consistently (outwith the 3 weeks of the festival)

 

50% growth in Scottish tourism in 7 years cannot possibly be achieved. Everyone who works at a high level in the indutsry knows this. Its a government wishlist and nothing more than that. 1500 beds is a good estimate of what might be required in high season in 7 years time but that is nothing like 50% above the current stock (more like 10%) And for 40 weeks of the year those 1500 beds will lie empty, with all the others that currently do.

This hotel project is one of at least five 4 star hotels to be built in central Edinburgh in the next 4-6 years, and its by far the furthest away from the city centre. Its enormously high risk and it will have to be something pretty special to be attractive to guests and potential buyers or leasers.

 

I know for a fact that Hearts have NOT employed or taken on board on a consultancy basis any one person, or any company or body who is have expertise in tourism or more particularly in the Edinburgh Hotel scene.

 

I know this because I recently asked Hearts, and a recruitment agency also asked on my behalf, if they were recruiting individuals with expertise in this field (my field) and they wrote back saying they had no current plans to do so.

 

So theyve designed a hotel WITHOUT any input from hoteliers or any expertise in the hotel industry basically. Asking for trouble IMO.

 

What about the Novotel 4star nearing completion at Edinburgh Park? It would be quite well placed for corporate and tourist custom. Is it confirmed it's to be a 4 star property? Are you in the hospitality industry OAG?

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Coco
What about the Novotel 4star nearing completion at Edinburgh Park? It would be quite well placed for corporate and tourist custom. Is it confirmed it's to be a 4 star property? Are you in the hospitality industry OAG?

 

I think that one is booked up for the Royal Bank 'University'.

 

It is horrendously placed for tourist custom other than 'motel' style customers. Other than the railway link, there are dual carriageways in all directions and other than the B&Q cafe not a lot of facilities!

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werwolf
cheers for the info Nelly.

 

What, no moan or rant about "Vlad building a state of the art stand is killing our club"

 

Surely you're not going soft JR

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Colonel Kurtz

I was at a meting last year with reps from all the current Tynecastle corporate facilities.

The club seemed to have taken all the recomendations on board .....Sports bars,restaurants etc with the current Gorgie suite being used a bar for that stand.

The club need to make the facilities pay on non match days

Still to see if my own favourite .....double vodkas for ?2 will be accepted.

The restaurant will also have one of the best views over the castle etc in the town ...Olarossu and The Tower market their view.

The flats will be used for players as part of their deal,saving the need for Cargo flats.

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Guest JamboRobbo
What, no moan or rant about "Vlad building a state of the art stand is killing our club"

 

Surely you're not going soft JR

 

As always, praise where due, criticism where due.

 

I see I get the same old bs from braindead apologists regardless though.

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dunxjambo

there is also a Novotel being built @ edinburgh park, more a glorified travel lodge tbh.

not really city centre but practical for business interests based on the west side of the city, the main one being RBS.

granted Gorgie is to all intents and purposes City centre rather than city west, but there are obviously TOO MANY hotels in Edinburgh @ the moment of that standard & on that side of town??????????

i have me doubts. there is location gap btwn the likes of the Balmoral, Hilton & Caledonian out to the Marriot & Stakis @ the airport. :)

also festival groups & visitors from around the world are always looking for accomodation in Aug/Sep just prior to the season so there is scope there.

also during the season, fans of teams like ICt & Aberdeen may well use it.

Matchday sponsorship will presumably also create packages which involve 1/2 night stays for Home games etc.

just a few thoughts. :527:

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Only a Game
What about the Novotel 4star nearing completion at Edinburgh Park? It would be quite well placed for corporate and tourist custom. Is it confirmed it's to be a 4 star property? Are you in the hospitality industry OAG?

 

I am indeed SHM.

 

And ALL Novotel hotels in the UK are 4 star.

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Only a Game

Now we people on here claiming to be Hotelonomics.

 

I drive a taxi and also work for a large Financial Institution in Edinburgh. I pick up clients at hotels all over the city - the Marriot is one of the busiest - why - it's near the airport. The sales guys down south come up and complain that the cannot get a decent hotel anywhere and are reduced to staying in travel lodges etc...

 

A recent Council report (July 2007 I think) bemoaned the lack of quality hotel rooms in Edinburgh.

 

 

I assume you meant me by that remark.

 

What inside up to date knowledge and experience of the inner workings and finer points of the Edinburgh Hotel trade does a taxi driver/ financial bloke have anyway ? You pick up guests and take them to and from the airport FFS ?

 

I'll tell you exactly why they stay at the Marriott rather than go into town.

 

Because its out of town its cheaper. Most nights you'll be able to stay cheaper at the Marriott than you will at a decent 3 star in the city centre. Big business increasingly wont pay big city centre prices and the city centre hotels dont want to reduce their prices any further. The corporates go where their company damn well puts them at the cheapest rates they can get. F-All to do with the lack of quality bedrooms in the city mentioned in your imaginary report. The problem in Edinburgh, especially where Hearts new hotel is concerned is precisely the opposite. There are already too many quality rooms fighting for too few guests to sleep in them.

 

BTW I dont "claim" to be anything. I work in the industry and its my job to know whats going on in that particular field.

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Rawrrrrrrr
I assume you meant me by that remark.

 

What inside up to date knowledge and experience of the inner workings and finer points of the Edinburgh Hotel trade does a taxi driver/ financial bloke have anyway ? You pick up guests and take them to and from the airport FFS ?

 

I'll tell you exactly why they stay at the Marriott rather than go into town.

 

Because its out of town its cheaper. Most nights you'll be able to stay cheaper at the Marriott than you will at a decent 3 star in the city centre. Big business increasingly wont pay big city centre prices and the city centre hotels dont want to reduce their prices any further. The corporates go where their company damn well puts them at the cheapest rates they can get. F-All to do with the lack of quality bedrooms in the city mentioned in your imaginary report. The problem in Edinburgh, especially where Hearts new hotel is concerned is precisely the opposite. There are already too many quality rooms fighting for too few guests to sleep in them.

 

BTW I dont "claim" to be anything. I work in the industry and its my job to know whats going on in that particular field.

 

 

Which is precisely why the Novotel is were it is

 

It will appeal to corporations for there salesmen

 

As you say, its all great those on the expenses saying something, its those up the ladder who matter and they wont pay the prices hearts will want

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McJambo
I assume you meant me by that remark.

 

What inside up to date knowledge and experience of the inner workings and finer points of the Edinburgh Hotel trade does a taxi driver/ financial bloke have anyway ? You pick up guests and take them to and from the airport FFS ?

 

I'll tell you exactly why they stay at the Marriott rather than go into town.

 

Because its out of town its cheaper. Most nights you'll be able to stay cheaper at the Marriott than you will at a decent 3 star in the city centre. Big business increasingly wont pay big city centre prices and the city centre hotels dont want to reduce their prices any further. The corporates go where their company damn well puts them at the cheapest rates they can get. F-All to do with the lack of quality bedrooms in the city mentioned in your imaginary report. The problem in Edinburgh, especially where Hearts new hotel is concerned is precisely the opposite. There are already too many quality rooms fighting for too few guests to sleep in them.

 

BTW I dont "claim" to be anything. I work in the industry and its my job to know whats going on in that particular field.

 

So we charge Marriott Maybury prices in Gorgie. 2miles and 10minutes closer to the City Centre?

 

Problem solved :dribble:

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Only a Game
Which is precisely why the Novotel is were it is

 

It will appeal to corporations for there salesmen

 

As you say, its all great those on the expenses saying something, its those up the ladder who matter and they wont pay the prices hearts will want

 

The Novotel at Edinburgh Park will swallow up the vast majority of the Edinbugh Park corporate business before Hearts have even got planning permission, so that is almost a completely closed door.

 

Hearts hotel is not a complete non-starter dont get me wrong. They'll get a good share of the conference business which is still pretty good and might get even better when the EICC is extended and they decide what to do with the facility at Ingliston (potential high capacity conference and event venue) The problem with that is that Edinburgh is dropping down the world conference league table (from 8th to 27th in the last 5 years) If that slump is not adressed its only going to get worse.

 

If they are sharp enough and prepared to be ultra competitive they'll be able to pinch quite a bit of corporate business as well, (because big business doesnt want to pay big prices anymore and someone undercutting what is available already should do pretty well.)

 

July, August and September can pretty much be taken care of by tourists and they'll do great at rugby weekends.

 

The rest of the time outwith the peak periods is a scrap for survival but if they are unique enough and the service and food and beverage is up to scratch and stays that way they might do alright. Doing alright keeps the hotel open for business. They'll have to do a hell of a lot better than "alright" to make the project a worthwhile and profitable venture. They'll have to be imaginative and aggressive in going for other peoples business. There isnt suddenly going to be 4000 new visitors to the city per month just because there's a new hotel in town. Those guests HAVE to come from somehwre else they currently go to.

 

All of the above means nothing if they intend to simply build the hotel and sell it off right away for much more than they paid to put it there. But that means there's no future income from it. Just a one off payment of however much the difference is.

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Only a Game
So we charge Marriott Maybury prices in Gorgie. 2miles and 10minutes closer to the City Centre?

 

Problem solved :dribble:

 

Not the only hotel they will be competing with but thats the general simplistic idea. Easier said than done though.

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dunxjambo
.

There isnt suddenly going to be 4000 new visitors to the city per month just because there's a new hotel in town. Those guests HAVE to come from somehwre else they currently go to.

 

tourist figures for edinburgh have GROWN each year for the past 10 & are unlikely to decrease in the near to long term future, unless the council cancel the festivals and the fringe!

more festivals are planned in different months as well.

4000 extra folk a month would not even register on the radar.

edinburgh does not have enough hotel accomodation taken on a year round basis. the fact that the hotel may not be full say in april or oct is neither herenor there; its the bigger longer term view that people in the business look at.

edinburgh used to have clearly defined tourist "time" (aug/sep & Dec) but no longer. we are a year round destination.

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