Nicholson

[Mikey1874]

i have a feeling he will go to ibrox and we will see o'halleron coming this way. just a nack

I think he'll fail in England and be back at Aberdeen or Rangers in 1/2 years

[jack D and coke]

I think people rate the championship in England far too highly myself. I watch some of it and it's ****ing dreadful. Sam has the ability to play down there easily imo and I wish him well.

[Mac80]

I think he'll fail in England and be back at Aberdeen or Rangers in 1/2 years

Hope he doesnt fail but i think you could be right. He is not good enough yet to take a dive in to the championship. Possibly could do a job league one or two.

 

But thats hardly a big move for him is it. Maybe money wise but hardly glamorous playing at vale park or kingsmeadow infront of pishy wee crowds

 

Sent from my E6553 using Tapatalk

[Mikey1874]

Hope he doesnt fail but i think you could be right. He is not good enough yet to take a dive in to the championship. Possibly could do a job league one or two.

 

But thats hardly a big move for him is it. Maybe money wise but hardly glamorous playing at vale park or kingsmeadow infront of pishy wee crowds

 

 

I rate Sam

 

Just feel he would be better developing at Hearts next 2 years

 

But maybe he's bored with Scottish football. Still unsure of explanation for his drop of in form second half last 2 seasons. Does that in England and he'll be in reserves.

[Martin_T]

In modern Scottish football it's best to work on the expectation that every out of contract player will leave.

 

Which is why recruitment is vital.

[richybrown31]

^{I think Sam wants to sign but the money on the table is nowhere near the money that he wants in comparison to other members of the squad! He is probably looking at players like Sammon and Oshiniwa, thinking I should be on more than them and that makes sense! I say pay him and Pats the money they want and reap the rewards of them next Summer when they sell on for decent cash. Whether this happens is another thing! We can't let our best players leave for nothing or a just a development fee, and as Ann is a business women, she should know this makes no 'business' sense!}

[Nookie Bear]

Very disappointing, I rate Sam a lot higher than many seem to on here. A player with a bit of "x factor". Really hope Cathro manages to change his mind.

I'm in that boat. I would much rather see guys like Sam performing well rather than functional, safe, players like Kitchen and Cowie.

[Riddley Walker]

I think people rate the championship in England far too highly myself. I watch some of it and it's ******* dreadful. Sam has the ability to play down there easily imo and I wish him well.

 

This. The quality in the bottom 2/3rds of the league is not great at all.

[jambosdad]

This. The quality in the bottom 2/3rds of the league is not great at all.

Watched part of Lincoln City v Ipswich last night and have to agree with you. Game was mince.

All muscle bound players and few skilful. Berra looked ok with ball at feet but was outmuscled in air battles.

I think Sam would get worse treatment down there than in SPL and be outmuscled.

[Armageddon]

Does anyone know if he is in contention for next week?

 

Just to get the thread a little closer to the OP's question asked.

 

I'll say yes.

[Jbo hmfc]

I guess so but won't be much. CP is a full international with far more appearances and is only rated at ?300-400k for development fee. Assuming Sam would be considerably less.

 

Sounds like he has a Ryan Fraser style deal lined up.

Development fees are around ?60k for each year we have had the player so presume it may be around the same as Paterson fee wise

[RenfrewHearts]

Just to get the thread a little closer to the OP's question asked.

 

I'll say yes.

Haha cheers

 

Couple of cameos with a view to ripping Tavernier a new one at Tynecastle on the 1st

[tolcross lad]

^{I think Sam wants to sign but the money on the table is nowhere near the money that he wants in comparison to other members of the squad! He is probably looking at players like Sammon and Oshiniwa, thinking I should be on more than them and that makes sense! I say pay him and Pats the money they want and reap the rewards of them next Summer when they sell on for decent cash. Whether this happens is another thing! We can't let our best players leave for nothing or a just a development fee, and as Ann is a business women, she should know this makes no 'business' sense!}

Its difficult to keep players content when there are big differences in wage levels and those receiving much higher wages are not good value.Sammon and Oshinawa have been big mistakes in many ways and are hanging around the neck of the club.I rate Nicholson as a very good SPFL player of the future.His level could well be as a Hearts legend playing for the club that he supports.But that will probably not satisfy the player who may want to test himself down south and earn bigger bucks to secure his future.

In the meantime I would hope that a compromise can be reached that will satisfy both parties and at least keep Nicholson here for another few seasons.i think it would be best for his development.

[CJGJ]

Given Sammon is on ?2800 a week plus bonus Sam may well have a point

[maroonnicky63]

^{I think Sam wants to sign but the money on the table is nowhere near the money that he wants in comparison to other members of the squad! He is probably looking at players like Sammon and Oshiniwa, thinking I should be on more than them and that makes sense! I say pay him and Pats the money they want and reap the rewards of them next Summer when they sell on for decent cash. Whether this happens is another thing! We can't let our best players leave for nothing or a just a development fee, and as Ann is a business women, she should know this makes no 'business' sense!}

I think you may just be spot on

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

This. The quality in the bottom 2/3rds of the league is not great at all.

The top third is light years ahead

[maroonnicky63]

Sorted by what means? Pay the same as clubs in England or try to match the gruesome twosome? We can't afford that, we tried that before and you know how it ended. As for the 'young' players we've lost out on are there any who've moved to clubs we can compete with financially? I can only think of two who've left and are regularly playing at the same level or above (I'm sure I'll be corrected by somebody), Adam King moved south and is on money we can't get close to and Jason Holt (featured in only a third of games this season), again earning more at Ibrox than we would be able or willing to pay him. Getting big transfer fees for our guys only come around once in a blue moon, Craig Gordon's fee was exceptional, if the players are moving to clubs below us then we'll not get a big fee for them.

you still don't get it, as far as I am aware SN does not want to leave but the offer is way below on what some of the other so called experience players are on , if Hearts want to pay top money to the players they are bringing in and lets be honest some of them are not that good although we have managed to get a couple of good ones.Just because he came through the acadamy does not mean that Hearts should take advantage of this, I am not suggesting we pay him the same as English clubs but he should not be miles away from some of the players we have and this is the case. Offer him a decent contract and he will sign and stop trying to keep the young lads on the cheap because that is why we are losing them and that is why Hearts are losing out on decent transfer fees

[Stuart G]

you still don't get it, as far as I am aware SN does not want to leave but the offer is way below on what some of the other so called experience players are on , if Hearts want to pay top money to the players they are bringing in and lets be honest some of them are not that good although we have managed to get a couple of good ones.Just because he came through the acadamy does not mean that Hearts should take advantage of this, I am not suggesting we pay him the same as English clubs but he should not be miles away from some of the players we have and this is the case. Offer him a decent contract and he will sign and stop trying to keep the young lads on the cheap because that is why we are losing them and that is why Hearts are losing out on decent transfer fees

How much would you suggest we pay him?

[amadjambo]

Really like Sam, but we should remember that it took him 6months+ to find his way back out of David Gray's pocket.

[Macros]

you still don't get it, as far as I am aware SN does not want to leave but the offer is way below on what some of the other so called experience players are on , if Hearts want to pay top money to the players they are bringing in and lets be honest some of them are not that good although we have managed to get a couple of good ones.Just because he came through the acadamy does not mean that Hearts should take advantage of this, I am not suggesting we pay him the same as English clubs but he should not be miles away from some of the players we have and this is the case. Offer him a decent contract and he will sign and stop trying to keep the young lads on the cheap because that is why we are losing them and that is why Hearts are losing out on decent transfer fees

 

Do you have inside knowledge of this? It's not a challenge, just curious that you start with "as far as I'm aware" but seem quite sure of the levels of pay not only offered to Sam but how that relates to others. I certainly wouldn't be happy if we are offering home grown academy players less than others when they've proven themselves in the first team. Perhaps, if this is the case this it's a fault of our recruitment team, offering too high a basic to some of the incomers, I'm jumping to conclusions but I take it you're meaning Sammon and Oshaniwa. I don't have a clue what our current pay levels are, I'd presume the club will not want to pay too much but would still need to offer enough to attract the right calibre of player and to me it stands to reason that there shouldn't be great disparity at our level between regular first team starters at the club.

Having said all that I also think that the players can be offered ridiculous wages elsewhere and it's their right to go for them and the club's right not to chase them to sign if that would put our finances at risk.

[Bighenry]

All the best to Sam if he goes. Always gives 100% in a hearts shirt! Works his socks off defensively,sometimes to the detriment of his attacking game

[wavydavy]

Given Sammon is on ?2800 a week plus bonus Sam may well have a point

 

Well he won't be picking up much in the way of bonuses then will he unless he gets one for sitting on the bench or running around in ever decreasing circles. One things for sure he won't be getting any bonus for scoring goals.

[stevie1874]

Pure Greed, Jim McLean had the right idea with the contracts he handed out .

[Paolo]

Sam is a far better player than Sammon and Oshaniwa, despite being a little inconsistent at times, and has contributed significantly more than the two combined, and likely to do the same in the future.

 

If he has been offered a lot less than what they are on, then that is ludicrous. Same for Paterson. If this is the case, then wages are CL's department, and he is responsible for that. It seems it is disrupting our whole business model of nurturing talent, then selling them on for a good transfer fee.

[Clerry Jambo]

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-midfielder-sam-nicholson-nears-return-to-action-1-4343865

[Alan_R]

.

[TheBigO]

you still don't get it, as far as I am aware SN does not want to leave but the offer is way below on what some of the other so called experience players are on , if Hearts want to pay top money to the players they are bringing in and lets be honest some of them are not that good although we have managed to get a couple of good ones.Just because he came through the acadamy does not mean that Hearts should take advantage of this, I am not suggesting we pay him the same as English clubs but he should not be miles away from some of the players we have and this is the case. Offer him a decent contract and he will sign and stop trying to keep the young lads on the cheap because that is why we are losing them and that is why Hearts are losing out on decent transfer fees

No inside knowledge myself but if it is as you say, placing the lad higher up in the pay structure makes sense.

[Musemic]

Given Sammon is on ?2800 a week plus bonus Sam may well have a point

 

Source?

 

Either you're related to/friends with CS or that's a complete guess on your part.

[Ribble]

In all walks of life you get paid more the older you are an the more experience you have. When Sammon and Osh signed they came as international level players and the wages offered reflected that, yes in hindsight they haven't deserved the wage level they are on but at the time Sammon for example would have been dropping from 2 or 3 times what we were offering and it would have been seen as a bargain.

 

Paterson would have had a good argument for parity having made the step up to international level* but Nicholson certainly hasn't been consistent enough for long enough to demand that kind of salary at Hearts!

 

*Although you could draw comparisons with Rashford at Man Utd, he's broken into the first team and become an international but do you think he could demand parity with the underperforming Wayne Rooney?

[Beast Boy]

Source?

 

Either you're related to/friends with CS or that's a complete guess on your part.

If it's the first one, then that's quite the breach of trust between friends or family.

[Debut 4]

At that agonising point again where we could be set to lose a good young player when we`d like to see how he`d get on under a new manager.

 

If Cathro manages the team well, implements his style thoroughly and with his reputation of progressing young players, it`d be interesting to see if Sam would find that consistency we all hope he would.

 

 

[Alva-Jambo]

With several players gone , there could be money to offer Sam ,  they'll be looking at all of that.  

[Mikey1874]

Nicholson certainly hasn't been consistent enough for long enough to demand that kind of salary at Hearts!

 

 

Probably closer to the truth.

 

Nicholson showing more consistency is probably what Hearts want. 3/4 months not delivering would get you demoted in most jobs. He's done that 2 years in row.

 

Stay at Hearts and develop that consistency and it's a better foundation.

 

He'll get ditched very quickly in England even 2 or 3 poor games not 2 or 3 months.

[wavydavy]

With several players gone , there could be money to offer Sam ,  they'll be looking at all of that.  

 

Surely that will depend on whether Cathro rates him and wants to keep him. He will not have seen him play yet as he is just coming back from injury.

 

He is about the quickest player we have but as many have already said he is still inconsistent and for this reason and possibly his wage demands I don't think he will be staying.

[Winston Ingram]

The money element of this may be a bit of a moot point. Even if we made him the highest paid player at Tynecastle, a lower end Championship club could easily double that. 

 

The bigger issue is where he sees his career. The sensible option would seem to stay put, play even another 50/70 games then get an even better move but if he has his heart set on England (as has been the suggestion) then there is probably little Hearts can do. 

 

The other not completely irrelevant point is what happened to Paterson. If Nicholson doesn't move this month and won't sign a new deal, that prospect of injury (however remote) is a factor in the last few months of the season. Perhaps even more applicable to Sam as he comes back from a knee injury. 

[Bowmans_Boot]

In all walks of life you get paid more the older you are an the more experience you have. When Sammon and Osh signed they came as international level players and the wages offered reflected that, yes in hindsight they haven't deserved the wage level they are on but at the time Sammon for example would have been dropping from 2 or 3 times what we were offering and it would have been seen as a bargain.

 

Paterson would have had a good argument for parity having made the step up to international level* but Nicholson certainly hasn't been consistent enough for long enough to demand that kind of salary at Hearts!

 

*Although you could draw comparisons with Rashford at Man Utd, he's broken into the first team and become an international but do you think he could demand parity with the underperforming Wayne Rooney?

I think Sammons international career is somewhat (ie massively) exaggerated, being honest. He has a handful of caps from 3/4 years ago and has never scored at that level. To suggest he is some kind of ROI regular is well wide of the mark.

[Spencer]

I think Sammons international career is somewhat (ie massively) exaggerated, being honest. He has a handful of caps from 3/4 years ago and has never scored at that level. To suggest he is some kind of ROI regular is well wide of the mark.

Sammon has played at a higher level than anyone in our squad except Hughes.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Sammon has played at a higher level than anyone in our squad except Hughes.

Cowie?

[Bowmans_Boot]

Sammon has played at a higher level than anyone in our squad except Hughes.

Whether that is true or not, it doesnt make his international career any more illustrious.

[wavydavy]

Sammon has played at a higher level than anyone in our squad except Hughes.

 

It's a pity he can't jump to a higher level and win the ball in the air.

[Spencer]

Whether that is true or not, it doesnt make his international career any more illustrious.

It is true.

 

Sammon bashing has become highly popular. Our troubles run deeper than Sammon in isolation.

 

The state of the squad Neilson had assembled was ridiculous

[Spencer]

Cowie?

That's true

[Paul Shark]

Cowie?

 

Callum Paterson ?

[Bowmans_Boot]

It is true.

 

Sammon bashing has become highly popular. Our troubles run deeper than Sammon in isolation.

 

The state of the squad Neilson had assembled was ridiculous

Very true. I think the problem Sammon faced from the start is that very few people (including myself) were inspired or excited by his signing. As a result, people were sort of waiting for him to fail. Unfair but it is what it is. Add on the guesswork about his salary (for three years) & people imagine who we could have signed instead.

[Spencer]

Very true. I think the problem Sammon faced from the start is that very few people (including myself) were inspired or excited by his signing. As a result, people were sort of waiting for him to fail. Unfair but it is what it is. Add on the guesswork about his salary (for three years) & people imagine who we could have signed instead.

A guy coming from England where he's been for last few years registered to EPL and Championship clubs is going to be a decent earner. In many ways I'm surprised we were able to afford him.

 

I don't actually think Sammon is as bad as he's made out to be. Indeed he could yet become a decent player for us I feel. He was badly let down in the first few weeks by the individualistic approach of Tony Watt, who left Sammon completely isolated.

 

Reaction of the Hearts support in the two European games to him was very poor indeed. That's no way to deal with a new player imo

[Paolo]

Sammon has played at a higher level than anyone in our squad except Hughes.

Oshaniwa?

[Ribble]

I think Sammons international career is somewhat (ie massively) exaggerated, being honest. He has a handful of caps from 3/4 years ago and has never scored at that level. To suggest he is some kind of ROI regular is well wide of the mark.

 

Never suggested he was an ROI regular but he has been capped and when it comes to football salary discussions, international caps no matter how many or how well he has played add a % to a players salary.

 

In almost every workplace there are factors to someone's starting salary, a single international cap is the same for a footballer as a degree/qualification is for anyone else, you will get paid a % more than someone without. Even at my work if I am interviewing 2 people, that have identical experience and qualifications, the person that is the older of the two will invariably be asking for a higher starting salary due to having had more pay rises etc over the years.

[Thomaso]

Whether that is true or not, it doesnt make his international career any more illustrious.

 

As posted here on a previous Sammon thread - on a previous article from a international Football magazine, from memory titled "TOP 15 PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN CAPPED"

 

Sammon was in at number 6.

 

"An experiment gone wrong by Trappattoni" and "Sammon was a figure of ridicule" summed him up for me.

[Nookie Bear]

Never suggested he was an ROI regular but he has been capped and when it comes to football salary discussions, international caps no matter how many or how well he has played add a % to a players salary.

 

In almost every workplace there are factors to someone's starting salary, a single international cap is the same for a footballer as a degree/qualification is for anyone else, you will get paid a % more than someone without. Even at my work if I am interviewing 2 people, that have identical experience and qualifications, the person that is the older of the two will invariably be asking for a higher starting salary due to having had more pay rises etc over the years.

Depends who the caps are for.

 

100 caps for San Marino, or 5 for France?

[wavydavy]

Very true. I think the problem Sammon faced from the start is that very few people (including myself) were inspired or excited by his signing. As a result, people were sort of waiting for him to fail. Unfair but it is what it is. Add on the guesswork about his salary (for three years) & people imagine who we could have signed instead.

 

I don't think people were waiting for him to fail but were not surprised by the performances he has given.

 

I was not inspired by his signing but was prepared to give him a chance and there wrere a few signs of something at the start of the season but he did not kick on from that.

 

He had a great chance to kickstart a stuttering career and has failed miserably so far. You never know he might play at some point on Sunday and score but I would be very surprised as would most Hearts fans.