Fxxx the SPFL Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Bjorn & Djoum to be replaced by Salmon & Watt after 70 mins with the instruction to run your arse of for twenty minutes. Surely they can do that right Of course they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hmmm, actually most journalists have seen it as a positive appointment. A few high profile people have passed dubious comments which have carried an underlying tone of suspicion and ignorance and have rightly been exposed. I think we should have just ignored what Boyd, Fullerton and Craigan said as it just seems to have snowballed and given them more airtime, as most of the MSM and pundits called it a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hardly! Most managers we have appointed over the last 10 years have received the 'meh' treatment in my opinion. The last one we got this excited about was Burley. Don't always agree with you bud but you're spot on! It's the OP that's being a drama queen. These guys aren't going to work miracles overnight and I'm actually willing to see us slip down the table (a little) for the remainder of he season whilst hey implement their vision. As such it could be next season that we really see them being rewarded for their efforts. If it comes together before that, great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naeclue Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hmmm, actually most journalists have seen it as a positive appointment. A few high profile people have passed dubious comments which have carried an underlying tone of suspicion and ignorance and have rightly been exposed. With Celtic running away with the league, and the only question in OF games being how much can Rangers limit the score, the press are desperate for something to liven up the season. So, they've jumped on this appointment as "the" story and here we all are. Everything said negatively re Cathro thus far applied moreso to Nielsen appointment, and we were in tougher circumstances then - inexperienced coach, squad needing completely rebuilt, financial limitations and the might of Rangers to contend with (complete with Boydie himself). The appointment is consistent with the philosophy expressed by Hearts on Budgement day, with the slight reservation that Cathro wasn't an internal appointment. Given the Ross Jack situation, and the fact that Levein has worked closely with Cathro over a number of years at Dundee United, we haven't deviated much from the plan. We are building from the ground up, while doing the best we can first team wise in the meantime. The key for Hearts imo is to stick to their guns on the long term plans, even as the first team results go through downs as well as ups. With the 4th biggest wage bill, par for us is 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 The reaction of Hearts fans on here over the last few days, has bordered on hysterical. I'm kind of reluctant to start this thread because I don't want to sound negative and I can anticipate the feedback that I'm willing failure. But we've seen this so many times, the wave of euphoria that greets a regime change, a manager arriving, a new striker coming in with an impressive highlight reel on Youtube. Then 2 weeks later when said change doesn't look like it's going to result in the predicted title win and champions league run, everyone is wetting themselves. I'm excited about these appointments, they are bold and ambitious and forward thinking. But they are bold for exactly one reason, they carry a large degree of risk. Risk that I don't think everyone is acknowledging. There are some posts on here, as I said, bordering on hysterical and I can only imagine the reaction when we don't go to Ibrox and pump Rangers, or if we finish the season in 4th, exactly where we are now. "He's no improvement on Phoodle" "He was never fit to manage a football club" "Leveins puppet, this is Leveins fault, should have gone for an experienced man like Tommy Wright" "Who's hiring the plane?" There is good reason to be optimistic about these guys but I strongly suspect the good work they may do might be seen in the mid to long term. My worry is that, based on the boundless optimism of some on here, they will not get time and patience to deliver their full potential. The first bump on the road will be met with predictions that the project will never work. And it's likely the same hysterical voice could be the quickest to turn, while the voices of caution are more likely to be the ones calling for patience in 6 months time, when these guys need the backing the most. I don't want to tell people to be optimistic and excited about these changes, it's an exciting time. But let's just bare in mind these are young inexperienced lads, who might need support and backing through the rougher times and have things to learn about taking this step up. Are you working under the impression that what happens on kickback influences what happens in real life at the club ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bickfest Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 The day I stop being positive and hopeful about the future, just in case something bad happens, is the day I pull on a Hibs top. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkishcap Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Said before whatever happens at ibrox will not define our season, it will be a hard game no doubts. Will be interesting after January but looking ahead can't wait for next season already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deid Heid Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I posted this in another thread but possibly more appropriate here. After 30/40 years of Scottish football decay, masterfully highlighted by various old firm coq-jockey's like Boydy; Craigen; Fullatron; Miller; Greavey; Spiersy etc, (and here's a few questions for ya...) How long do we think this process is going to take? We are two and a half years into this project and at least their front line is cracking-up (SMSM). Another couple of years, who knows? I suspect it will take longer than that and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. A little improvement is going to go a long way in this country and right from admin exit (Adxit?), Budge and Levein establishing a 5 year plan to even start make an impression on this rotten-from-the-core game is as ambitious as it is visionary. It really had to be. I think we all recognise that more of the same-old was going nowhere, Scottish football would simply fade even further into insignificance, maintenance of the status quo would have been the death-knell of the game here. The plan is a long-term strategy to drag us all into the future and thank heavens it has been adhered to with the appointment of Cathro and MacPhee. Much as we all love SPH and Elvis(!) and their like, they are no longer the right fit for the way the club has to structure itself. I think we all know this, but do we collectively have the stomach for this, do we collectively have the will to see it through? Sorry about all the questions. Buckle-up tight and pack some sandwiches and a thermos cause this is going to be a long strange trip, especially after they really set the attack dogs on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 If Hearts under Ian Cathro does not win a game before the winter break. You will be the first person calling for him to be sacked on here. It's how you are. You will post stuff like. He's to young, has no experience. Should never got the gig in the first place. Blah, blah, blah. Nope , he is the right man for the job this time ...Robbie could take us no further , only a blind clown could not see it , im backing cathro to the max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 It's a good OP and worth saying. I'm getting the impression some are seeing this as a guaranteed route to success which it can never be in football. It's a fantastic appointment and the fans are rightly positive but there are many hurdles to jump and not all of them are under our control. One thing I would say is Kickback is just a message board an, if we lose 3-0 on saturday, then it's cool with me to have a rant and moan on here and to get it out of our systems...and then we go again for the next game. Fans are not stupid and they will support a club that is moving forward, even if the odd blip leaves us seething in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 It's a good OP and worth saying. I'm getting the impression some are seeing this as a guaranteed route to success which it can never be in football. It's a fantastic appointment and the fans are rightly positive but there are many hurdles to jump and not all of them are under our control. One thing I would say is Kickback is just a message board an, if we lose 3-0 on saturday, then it's cool with me to have a rant and moan on here and to get it out of our systems...and then we go again for the next game. Fans are not stupid and they will support a club that is moving forward, even if the odd blip leaves us seething in the short term. Spot on ...its just the daft internet, folk shouldn't take it so serious... we are all just bunch of daffties spouting verbal diarrhea, whether we like it or not...all of us ....and that is the truth of the matter. The ones on here that think they are all lordy and wise ..lmfao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Davie, seems to me that your believing in limits the Scottish media and fans have fallen victim of for decades..... Absolutely this. By no means to I expect us to go to Ibrox and hit 6 goals past them as we steamroller them in front of their own support. Likewise, I absolutely don't for one minute think that the appointment of Cathro and MacPhee will see us go undefeated for the rest of the season. I don't think anyone, no matter how "hysterical" their reactions this week have been, believes that. BUT........... what the appointments HAVE done is give us a collective boot up the arse to remind us all that we ARE capable of better and we CAN move on to another level from here. I'm completely on board with that train of thought and will continue to be so regardless of the result tomorrow. To coin a phrase from back in the Burley era - now is the time to BELIEVE. Mediocrity and half arsed 'aw well it could be worse' are no longer part of the vision. We want to be winning every single match we take part in. Win lose or draw, there are people in charge now who wont accept less than 100% from their playing staff. Hysteria? Perhaps not the word i'd have chosen personally - but whatever the correct term is - i'm all for it. If the players buy in to it in the same way the supporters have - I reckon we'll do alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Absolutely this. By no means to I expect us to go to Ibrox and hit 6 goals past them as we steamroller them in front of their own support. Likewise, I absolutely don't for one minute think that the appointment of Cathro and MacPhee will see us go undefeated for the rest of the season. I don't think anyone, no matter how "hysterical" their reactions this week have been, believes that. BUT........... what the appointments HAVE done is give us a collective boot up the arse to remind us all that we ARE capable of better and we CAN move on to another level from here. I'm completely on board with that train of thought and will continue to be so regardless of the result tomorrow. To coin a phrase from back in the Burley era - now is the time to BELIEVE. Mediocrity and half arsed 'aw well it could be worse' are no longer part of the vision. We want to be winning every single match we take part in. Win lose or draw, there are people in charge now who wont accept less than 100% from their playing staff. Hysteria? Perhaps not the word i'd have chosen personally - but whatever the correct term is - i'm all for it. If the players buy in to it in the same way the supporters have - I reckon we'll do alright yes...well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlasgoJambo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 We are building from the ground up, while doing the best we can first team wise in the meantime. The key for Hearts imo is to stick to their guns on the long term plans, even as the first team results go through downs as well as ups. I think this is spot on, the absolute crux of the matter, and I think what the OP is alluding too - don't get carried away with the minutiae when the overall health and direction of the club is the key.... With the 4th biggest wage bill, par for us is 4th. ...this however is what I think the Cathro decision is looking to change and why the appointment is a positive one. If all clubs are doing pretty much the same thing then budget becomes the defining factor on success. We will always be in and around the third and fourth positions with fluctuations depending on appointments of personnel for ourselves and the other clubs - some astute and some just luck. It's an approach which has seen the fall of many clubs - to only rely on having the best players (at the highest prices) for success of course means clubs end up in financial troubles in the pursuit of that success. For a club to break the status quo of Scottish football it needs an approach which defies the accepted norms that have stifled the game. Our administration has allowed this to happen as we were presented with a clean slate and an opportunity to change the club on a whole. With Ann Budge we have a person from outside the realm of usual club directors, a person with business acumen who has been able to cast a fresh set of eyes on the operation. Oh aye, and a woman which in itself was progressive in the archaic world of football. We have a structure which includes a director of football and in Craig Levein we have an intelligent and experienced person in the role. Bathgate touches on it in the Herald article - who better to assist someone with vast football experience and knowledge in their first managerial position then someone like Levein? The structure of the club makes this practical. Off the field the club is also changing (much to the chagrin of the Gorgie Billy Boys who hark after a no longer acceptable nostalgia) in a progressive manner of sustainability, family inclusivity, emphasis on community and general 'good practice'. This nostalgia I'll add is for a structure which saw us bossed by the Old Firm, thwarted by a systemic culture of bias and led us to the brink of extinction. If we don't want to have a shot at change we may as well pack it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Quite a sensible thread. I'm a bit worried about our expectation of Cathro, especially in the short term. He needs some patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Nope , he is the right man for the job this time ...Robbie could take us no further , only a blind clown could not see it , im backing cathro to the max. Until his team start drawing or losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcw1874 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Let's face it, when it comes to hysteria, some of my fellow posters set the bar pretty high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBeat Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 There has been a fair bit of excitement and I am sure the majority are very aware that it could take time for Cathro to properly make his mark on the team - and that it might not work out. However, there will be some on JKB who will turn on him quicker than the rest, just like we had with Neilson, and just like we would have if we had any other manager. Its the way of online forums, especially JKB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Nope , he is the right man for the job this time ...Robbie could take us no further , only a blind clown could not see it , im backing cathro to the max. I suspect you'll be eating lots of humble pie when things don't change much at all and Neilson is shown to have been good at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I think Kickback has been great this week. For the past few months it's been torture reading some of the depressing stuff on here. The feel good bubble will burst eventually, but it's good to see fellow Hearts supporters in such a positive, upbeat mood. Long may it last. Even the match thread when we were behind was bearable. What it should be even though it was a Robbie type result away from home - in theory - none of the usual whining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Quite a sensible thread. I'm a bit worried about our expectation of Cathro, especially in the short term. He needs some patience. You are right But the truth of the matter is, hopefully people will agree, nommatter your opinions on Robbie and the players, we are not that far away from being a pretty damn good team. We were always only ever fine margins away from being about 9 points better off this season. Hopefully people will admit this now that Robbie has gone. So what does this mean? It actually won't take much improvement for us to turn those 1 points into 3. Now Robbie put us into that position and he had how much coaching experience before doing so? 2 years? Cathro has more coaching experience at a higher level. Expectations are high but actually we don't need a huge amount of improvement initially AND Cathro's additional experience should in theory deliver that initial improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonnicky63 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 A defeat on saturday and kickback will be back to it's greeting, slavering, pish-talking worst. well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I suspect you'll be eating lots of humble pie when things don't change much at all and Neilson is shown to have been good at his job. or you will , lets see shall we ... get your napkin on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Until his team start drawing or losing. nope, the right men are in the right place this time ... they will learn from there mistakes, it took Robbie till he was leaving to work out djoum is not a wide player.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fxxx the SPFL Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Nope , he is the right man for the job this time ...Robbie could take us no further , only a blind clown could not see it , im backing cathro to the max.your avatar should be CoCo holding a white stick lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glastonbury jambo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 your avatar should be CoCo holding a white stick lol. ah clown externalization denial i see...got ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I think we're rightly excited about the new appointments. We're not going to turn into league winners overnight though. They have to be given time. If we lose on Sat I'll be disappointed, but that's football. More interested in what happens over the next 6-9 months. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I posted this in another thread but possibly more appropriate here. After 30/40 years of Scottish football decay, masterfully highlighted by various old firm coq-jockey's like Boydy; Craigen; Fullatron; Miller; Greavey; Spiersy etc, (and here's a few questions for ya...) How long do we think this process is going to take? We are two and a half years into this project and at least their front line is cracking-up (SMSM). Another couple of years, who knows? I suspect it will take longer than that and if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. A little improvement is going to go a long way in this country and right from admin exit (Adxit?), Budge and Levein establishing a 5 year plan to even start make an impression on this rotten-from-the-core game is as ambitious as it is visionary. It really had to be. I think we all recognise that more of the same-old was going nowhere, Scottish football would simply fade even further into insignificance, maintenance of the status quo would have been the death-knell of the game here. The plan is a long-term strategy to drag us all into the future and thank heavens it has been adhered to with the appointment of Cathro and MacPhee. Much as we all love SPH and Elvis(!) and their like, they are no longer the right fit for the way the club has to structure itself. I think we all know this, but do we collectively have the stomach for this, do we collectively have the will to see it through? Sorry about all the questions. Buckle-up tight and pack some sandwiches and a thermos cause this is going to be a long strange trip, especially after they really set the attack dogs on us. Absolutely this. By no means to I expect us to go to Ibrox and hit 6 goals past them as we steamroller them in front of their own support. Likewise, I absolutely don't for one minute think that the appointment of Cathro and MacPhee will see us go undefeated for the rest of the season. I don't think anyone, no matter how "hysterical" their reactions this week have been, believes that. BUT........... what the appointments HAVE done is give us a collective boot up the arse to remind us all that we ARE capable of better and we CAN move on to another level from here. I'm completely on board with that train of thought and will continue to be so regardless of the result tomorrow. To coin a phrase from back in the Burley era - now is the time to BELIEVE. Mediocrity and half arsed 'aw well it could be worse' are no longer part of the vision. We want to be winning every single match we take part in. Win lose or draw, there are people in charge now who wont accept less than 100% from their playing staff. Hysteria? Perhaps not the word i'd have chosen personally - but whatever the correct term is - i'm all for it. If the players buy in to it in the same way the supporters have - I reckon we'll do alright I think this is spot on, the absolute crux of the matter, and I think what the OP is alluding too - don't get carried away with the minutiae when the overall health and direction of the club is the key.... ...this however is what I think the Cathro decision is looking to change and why the appointment is a positive one. If all clubs are doing pretty much the same thing then budget becomes the defining factor on success. We will always be in and around the third and fourth positions with fluctuations depending on appointments of personnel for ourselves and the other clubs - some astute and some just luck. It's an approach which has seen the fall of many clubs - to only rely on having the best players (at the highest prices) for success of course means clubs end up in financial troubles in the pursuit of that success. For a club to break the status quo of Scottish football it needs an approach which defies the accepted norms that have stifled the game. Our administration has allowed this to happen as we were presented with a clean slate and an opportunity to change the club on a whole. With Ann Budge we have a person from outside the realm of usual club directors, a person with business acumen who has been able to cast a fresh set of eyes on the operation. Oh aye, and a woman which in itself was progressive in the archaic world of football. We have a structure which includes a director of football and in Craig Levein we have an intelligent and experienced person in the role. Bathgate touches on it in the Herald article - who better to assist someone with vast football experience and knowledge in their first managerial position then someone like Levein? The structure of the club makes this practical. Off the field the club is also changing (much to the chagrin of the Gorgie Billy Boys who hark after a no longer acceptable nostalgia) in a progressive manner of sustainability, family inclusivity, emphasis on community and general 'good practice'. This nostalgia I'll add is for a structure which saw us bossed by the Old Firm, thwarted by a systemic culture of bias and led us to the brink of extinction. If we don't want to have a shot at change we may as well pack it in. Three excellent posts, and very much where I am at the moment. This is a time for change. And Hearts are leading the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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