Hearts = wee team?

[scott herbertson]

I just don`t know where to start here. Your "unpopularity" in Scottish football, is directly due to these kinds of comments. It`s arrogant, ignorant and down-right desparate point-scoring.

 

Yes, we Hibs fans KNOW that you have more trophies, titles, crowd potential than us, but still we look on, worried about your future. We don`t want what the Weej craves, (you know what I mean) but statements like that will hardly endear you to sympathisers.

 

I personally, and most of my cohorts, WANT you to get out of this fiasco, and start enjoying Derby`s again.

 

Then you spout this crap. It`s not news, it`s HISTORY.

 

As for allies, in your most definite forth-coming crisis, look no further than the REAL Hibs fans for added support, you will find very little anywhere else.

 

You really should have a look at yourself, this is East coast/Edinburgh football`s future, yet you spout this!

 

Pick an SPL team, any team, look at your views and comments, and tell me why you think you have no support from anywhere, except..............yup, the "Reptiles" or whatever we are called today.

 

Mutual respect is important on both sides, but you revert to snide/bitchy comments, because you are clutching at anything.

 

Edinburgh/East coast challenges would be NOTHING unless we had each other.

 

Please re-think. Your demise would do us no good. Why would we want that?

 

Big/Wee at this moment in time, serves nothing but fun (and column inches) to the Weejia, who are revelling in this.

 

Get a grip man, know your true enemy.

 

 

erm... I think he was linking to a thread on a website with hibs fans spouting on about their history and calling hearts the 'establishment team' - is that mythology not arrogant ?

 

Just as an example from the link that teh google link throws up:

 

"James connolly is not only the greatest hibs supporter that has ever lived, as alan lugton states in his monumental history of the team, but the finest citizen that edinburgh has ever produced and his memory is served by the annual connolly march, the consistently most working class demonstration in the country. the fact that the edinburgh establishment ( and it's football team, the bourgeois heart of midlothian ) ignores his revolutionary spirit says it all. his and hibs and st. patrick's class origins are much more important than religious ones."

 

that seemsto eme to be arrogance and an illusory recreation of 'history'

 

Personally I. like yourself, love the rivalry and good humoured banter. I think you have picked the wrong post to have a rant on tho!

[Slick 21]

Not so sure there is a RIGHT thread to rant on, and yes there are a fairly equal amount of rectums in both sets of support.

 

At this crucial time though, let`s stop the point-scoring garbage. There are FAR more important things on the present agenda.

 

Bur in the main, I have to agree.

[Hearts Heritage]

I cant FTP the web page up

 

season hl_best hearts_hlavg hibs_hlavg

1890-91 NULL 3388 NULL

1891-92 NULL 3681 NULL

1892-93 NULL 3750 NULL

1893-94 Hearts 5444 1700

1894-95 Hearts 6166 1500

1895-96 Hearts 7833 4857

1896-97 Hibs 6222 6271

1897-98 Hibs 5888 6222

1898-99 Hearts 7611 5777

1899-00 Hearts 6411 5866

1900-01 Hibs 5300 5410

1901-02 Hearts 6444 6277

1902-03 Hibs 6409 7200

1903-04 Hearts 8015 4875

1904-05 Hearts 6269 4484

1905-06 Hearts 7633 5466

1906-07 Hearts 6012 5529

1907-08 Hearts 8647 5852

1908-09 Hearts 7794 6205

1909-10 Hearts 7852 5352

1910-11 Hearts 9029 6058

1911-12 Hearts 10529 6323

1912-13 Hearts 10676 6264

1913-14 Hearts 13131 8078

1914-15 Hearts 11136 5394

1915-16 Hearts 7631 4421

1916-17 Hearts 6289 4368

1917-18 Hearts 7500 5882

1918-19 Hearts 9735 6470

1919-20 Hearts 16223 11190

1920-21 Hearts 17928 10714

1921-22 Hearts 17071 11619

1922-23 Hearts 17105 13631

1923-24 Hearts 16263 10263

1924-25 Hearts 17815 13842

1925-26 Hearts 18368 13289

1926-27 Hearts 17026 12342

1927-28 Hearts 16763 10894

1928-29 Hearts 18868 8736

1929-30 Hearts 16736 8131

1930-31 Hearts 17894 9052

1931-32 Hearts 15449 4210

1932-33 Hearts 16297 6558

1933-34 Hearts 14400 11263

1934-35 Hearts 18654 10370

1935-36 Hearts 18362 10068

1936-37 Hearts 20087 11340

1937-38 Hearts 20172 11163

1938-39 Hearts 18308 12894

1946-47 Hibs 19570 24225

1947-48 Hibs 22694 27950

1948-49 Hearts 28195 27266

1949-50 Hibs 27811 29156

1950-51 Hibs 23917 27998

1951-52 Hibs 25238 30700

1952-53 Hibs 22377 29800

1953-54 Hearts 26247 22020

1954-55 Hearts 23133 22825

1955-56 Hearts 23588 20224

1956-57 Hearts 23882 18176

1957-58 Hearts 24158 20188

1958-59 Hearts 21470 14617

1959-60 Hearts 23058 16558

1960-61 Hearts 20294 15470

1961-62 Hearts 13827 9762

1962-63 Hearts 12778 9095

1963-64 Hearts 14155 11714

1964-65 Hearts 16785 13860

1965-66 Hearts 12109 11954

1966-67 Hibs 10241 12796

1967-68 Hibs 11228 11959

1968-69 Hearts 11546 11205

1969-70 Hibs 12475 13615

1970-71 Hearts 11667 10541

1971-72 Hibs 11196 14057

1972-73 Hibs 10261 16100

1973-74 Hibs 11732 14339

1974-75 Hibs 12224 13720

1975-76 Hibs 12676 13796

1976-77 Hearts 11716 10003

1977-78 Hearts 9862 9646

1978-79 Hearts 10886 9794

1979-80 Hibs 5587 9564

1980-81 Hearts 7758 4460

1981-82 Hibs 5157 7485

1982-83 Hibs 5912 7108

 

 

Since Hearts came back up in 1983 Hibs have had a higher average once.

 

1983-84 Hearts 11893 8333

1984-85 Hearts 11304 7425

1985-86 Hearts 16196 9134

1986-87 Hearts 14498 9140

1987-88 Hearts 16633 11565

1988-89 Hearts 15367 13896

1989-90 Hearts 15693 10705

1990-91 Hearts 13231 9257

1991-92 Hearts 13317 9841

1992-93 Hearts 9829 8790

1993-94 Hearts 10885 9718

1994-95 Hearts 10123 8754

1995-96 Hearts 12077 9795

1996-97 Hearts 12349 10480

1997-98 Hearts 15337 12029

1998-99 Hearts 14183 10433

1999-00 Hearts 14246 12069

2000-01 Hearts 12773 10792

2001-02 Hearts 12080 11587

2002-03 Hearts 12036 10162

2003-04 Hearts 11961 9127

2004-05 Hibs 12272 12539

2005-06 Hearts 16770 13817

2006-07 Hearts 16888 14488

2007-08 Hearts 16279 14194

[269miles]

Well clearly not.

 

But what would it take for this to be the case?

 

And I'm not just talking about numbers here.

 

But surely crowd numbers are not enough? Surely these need to consistently be backed with results.

 

What would it take for Hearts to be generally considered the second force in Edinburgh. 1 season doesn't make it so, so how many would it take?. And hopefully we don't get to repeat the last season anytime soon.

 

Poor manger? Selling players? We seem to be suffering from this, but aren't these mostly Hobo traits?

 

But if you believe the posts on here, we are in a terminal decline and potential relegation targets. So the question is, at what point do we slip below Hibs in the overall scheme of things....is it possible? Are we close? Is it miles away? Could it ever happen?

 

 

In response to the OP : on current trends can you really argue that Hobos are the wee team ?

 

After the fire sales at Tynie it's gonna be hysterical to see who is left that can get us above the Hobos next season. And that's after the 'wee team' have sold everything they've got FFS.

Still, only one year left of Mad Vlad's plan for CL qualification.

[Slick 21]

Oh FFs, see above posts............

[269miles]

Oh FFs, see above posts............

 

How many STs are we selling on the basis of that history lesson ?

[Hearts Heritage]

If you include all competitive home games from 2004-05

Hearts are ahead for that season too

13029 12577

 

Though that is subject to the vagaries of the Cup draws so Home League averages are a more consistent indicator though the unbalanced nature of fixtures since playing teams 3 or 4 times a season was introduced makes that no longer as reliable.

 

And Hearts inclusion of Season tickets sold in some crowd figures spoils it as well.

[Slick 21]

How many STs are we selling on the basis of that history lesson ?

 

And your point is, caller?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The Romanov era has, perversely, been a good thing for h**s.

 

The reason I say that is that their crowds have had a positive impact because of what has been happening at Tynecastle. Not so much the circus but more of the Burley 12 games and the after-effects. I believe there is an element of the h**s support that have reacted to that and decided to purchase STs there in response to show that they can rally round their club.

 

I also give as supporting evidence the fall-off in their crowds after the split, even though they had a chance of Europe - I think that part of that was the fact that we were skulking around in the bottom 6.

 

This isn't a big team/wee team argument. It does show that both sides feed off each other and those h**s fans who "can't wait" for us to go bust should be careful what they wish for.

 

We would be the same if our expectations become more grounded (which they rapidly are) and the 'prize' is battling for supremacy within the city.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Both have been relegated twice since the SPL came in to being.

 

Garbage! Go and get your facts correct and try again!

[Jam Tarts 1874]

http://www.soccerbase.com/head2.sd?team2id=1227&team1id=1289

 

The head to head record says it all.

[PTBCAL]

If you include all competitive home games from 2004-05

Hearts are ahead for that season too

13029 12577

 

Though that is subject to the vagaries of the Cup draws so Home League averages are a more consistent indicator though the unbalanced nature of fixtures since playing teams 3 or 4 times a season was introduced makes that no longer as reliable.

 

And Hearts inclusion of Season tickets sold in some crowd figures spoils it as well.

 

Here's something else to throw into the mix.

 

The away allocation at ER is approx 350 more than Tynecastle. Multiply this by 6 (OF & US) then you get an additional 2,000 fans. Divide by number of games = 19 and that's an extra 110 fans.

 

So in reality the probably outnumbered us by 150 per match.

[Miller Jambo 60]

I just don`t know where to start here. Your "unpopularity" in Scottish football, is directly due to these kinds of comments. It`s arrogant, ignorant and down-right desparate point-scoring.

 

Yes, we Hibs fans KNOW that you have more trophies, titles, crowd potential than us, but still we look on, worried about your future. We don`t want what the Weej craves, (you know what I mean) but statements like that will hardly endear you to sympathisers.

 

I personally, and most of my cohorts, WANT you to get out of this fiasco, and start enjoying Derby`s again.

 

Then you spout this crap. It`s not news, it`s HISTORY.

 

As for allies, in your most definite forth-coming crisis, look no further than the REAL Hibs fans for added support, you will find very little anywhere else.

 

You really should have a look at yourself, this is East coast/Edinburgh football`s future, yet you spout this!

 

Pick an SPL team, any team, look at your views and comments, and tell me why you think you have no support from anywhere, except..............yup, the "Reptiles" or whatever we are called today.

 

Mutual respect is important on both sides, but you revert to snide/bitchy comments, because you are clutching at anything.

 

Edinburgh/East coast challenges would be NOTHING unless we had each other.

 

Please re-think. Your demise would do us no good. Why would we want that?

 

Big/Wee at this moment in time, serves nothing but fun (and column inches) to the Weejia, who are revelling in this.

 

Get a grip man, know your true enemy.

 

4-0 you wee joke take it you missed it too like 10000of your mates.:107years::107years::107years::107years::107years::107years::107years:

[$ilvery_Moon]

Serious question. Other than a horrendous one off game where they scored 7 what can Hibs claim to have over us? Nothing. 50 more derby wins, a better record at their own ground than them, more honours, bigger crowds, biggest winning result, 4-0 at Hampden. In my lifetime they've nearly always been the wee team.

[Seymour M Hersh]

IMO it would take years, them to win the SC a few times, and a fair few derby hammerings from hibs.

 

Entirely possible but I have to say unlikely.

 

.

 

Never entirely! Theoretically possible perhaps and entirely unlikely!:107years:

[topcat]

Hibs will always be the wee team

 

Aside from the crowds, the trophies, the league placings and the derbies Hibs will still be the wee team for two reasons.

 

Firstly because we say so. Given the number of Myths that the verdant warrior poets of our dockside suburb have kept alive over the years it shouldn't be beyond us to retain the truism that "Hearts are the Big team" even if Hibs are beating AC Milan 3-0 in front of 40,000 at the newly constructed Leitherdome.

 

Secondly because they say so. Just as being "the big team" is an important part of our collective identity. Hibernian mythology depicts us as the team of the "Edinburgh establishment" implictly casting themselves as the outsiders, the rebels, The "other team" .

 

To illustrate this just google the phrases hibs "edinburgh establishment"

 

I just don`t know where to start here. Your "unpopularity" in Scottish football, is directly due to these kinds of comments. It`s arrogant, ignorant and down-right desparate point-scoring.

 

Yes, we Hibs fans KNOW that you have more trophies, titles, crowd potential than us, but still we look on, worried about your future. We don`t want what the Weej craves, (you know what I mean) but statements like that will hardly endear you to sympathisers.

 

I personally, and most of my cohorts, WANT you to get out of this fiasco, and start enjoying Derby`s again.

 

Then you spout this crap. It`s not news, it`s HISTORY.

 

As for allies, in your most definite forth-coming crisis, look no further than the REAL Hibs fans for added support, you will find very little anywhere else.

 

You really should have a look at yourself, this is East coast/Edinburgh football`s future, yet you spout this!

 

Pick an SPL team, any team, look at your views and comments, and tell me why you think you have no support from anywhere, except..............yup, the "Reptiles" or whatever we are called today.

 

Mutual respect is important on both sides, but you revert to snide/bitchy comments, because you are clutching at anything.

 

Edinburgh/East coast challenges would be NOTHING unless we had each other.

 

Please re-think. Your demise would do us no good. Why would we want that?

 

Big/Wee at this moment in time, serves nothing but fun (and column inches) to the Weejia, who are revelling in this.

 

Get a grip man, know your true enemy.

 

Remember where you are and show some respect

 

Generalisations about large numbers of people are never entirely accurate and maybe you personally don't buy into that Establishment/Anti-Establishment divide but it's difficult to deny that it doesn't form part of Hibs collective identity. Check some of the comments that the google link throws up or consult Irvine Welsh.

 

Futhermore far from denying that Hearts Supporters have a collective arrogant superiority complex it is precisely this that I was alluding to in my original post. Even if we lose the next 20 Derbies and get relegated to the 3rd division while ground sharing with Spartans Hearts Supporters would probably still consider their team to be the capital's natural big team only 'in exile'. For most of the years I've been watching Hearts there has already been a slight feeling of exile, a feeling that we really don't belong in the chasing pack with the likes of Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

And that was partly my point. We're "the big team" because we say we are and will continue to say we are whether the facts back up this assertion or not (It just so happens that they generally do). Just as Hibs supporters will talk of a tradition of classy, entertaining, enterprising football at Easter Road even if they're too young to remember the Famous Five.

 

As for allies, 'in our most definite forth-coming crisis', just what use are Dundee United Supporters going to be in extricating us from whatever nightmare it is that you're envisioning?

 

Although as individuals many of us are fine fellows, I've no doubt that en-masse we're one of the less likeable supports in Scotland,

 

It would be nice to be liked

 

But deep down, and I think I speak for many of us, I don't really care.

[ray-]

Garbage! Go and get your facts correct and try again!

 

Bit harsh, had a bad night?

 

OK, since the massive reconstruction of the Scottish League in the mid-seventies, which brought about the Premier League, as opposed to the First Division & at the same time, dramatically reducing the amount of top division teams, both clubs have been relegated twice.

 

Happy?

[Guest Scottish Cup Semi 2006]

Well clearly not.

 

But what would it take for this to be the case?

 

And I'm not just talking about numbers here.

 

But surely crowd numbers are not enough? Surely these need to consistently be backed with results.

 

What would it take for Hearts to be generally considered the second force in Edinburgh. 1 season doesn't make it so, so how many would it take?. And hopefully we don't get to repeat the last season anytime soon.

 

Poor manger? Selling players? We seem to be suffering from this, but aren't these mostly Hobo traits?

 

But if you believe the posts on here, we are in a terminal decline and potential relegation targets. So the question is, at what point do we slip below Hibs in the overall scheme of things....is it possible? Are we close? Is it miles away? Could it ever happen?

 

It could be argued this coming season will determine the 'wee team' tag - the season just past speaks for itself BUT even the season before we won nowt & the hobos won the diddy cup - if this season is as bad as its shaping up (stadium wrangles, asset sales, lower crowds) then it could cement the future tag of 'wee team' for ourselves. the most important factor IMHO is the stadium - whether Mad Vlad goes or stays we could end up sharing with livi or playing to 6000 at murrayfield.

[gowestjambo]

Is this how low we have sunk......... "Well at least we are the big team" I have nothing against Hibs (apart from contempt!)

 

Our team if not in terminal decline, is certainly on life support, and it gives me no pleasure in the fact that we are still the "Big Team" - well we certainly dont act or perform like the big team!

 

Yes it is nice to be "Top Dog" in the city, but it is hollow indeed, and certainly clutching at straws, that this is our only claim to fame!

 

Not that long ago we were striving to compete with the o/f now we have the undesirable tag of being the team which were beaten by Gretna in their last match, a team which no longer exists!

 

It gives me no pleasure and I am not consoled by being the "Big Team"