Dr. Bapswent Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 http://sport.scotsman.com/football/-Rangers-make-1m-Berra.4168261.jp Rangers make ?1m Berra bid but Hearts captain eyes Wolves Published Date: 10 June 2008 By BARRY ANDERSON WOLVERHAMPTON Wanderers remain clear favourites to sign Christophe Berra despite Rangers submitting an audacious ?1million offer for the Hearts captain yesterday. The Ibrox club opted for a decidedly low and somewhat bold introductory bid given that Vladimir Romanov refused Wolves' ?1.5m offer for Berra only last week. Hearts are steadfastly sticking to their ?2m valuation of the defender and would be reluctant sellers to either of the Old Firm in any case. Yesterday's approach by Rangers remains academic at the moment. With Wolves preparing an increased proposal, Molineux is Berra's most likely destination for next season. He is keen to sample English football and enhance his international prospects by participating in an intended promotion push with the Championship club. Hearts are aware of their captain's intentions to leave but will only allow him to talk with clubs willing to pay a minimum ?2m. Despite Rangers completing the permanent signing of former Tynecastle centre-back Andy Webster from Wigan Athletic yesterday, they harbour doubts over his long-term fitness and have identified Berra as a possible replacement. Additionally, David Weir, at 38, is nearing the end of his top-level career, therefore manager Walter Smith is already scouring for defensive reinforcements capable of stepping into the breach. Berra is currently on holiday and has put all discussions on his future on hold until he returns later this month. He is due to report back to Riccarton with the rest of Hearts' squad for preliminary tests on June 25, with pre-season training scheduled to begin five days later. ? HEARTS will welcome English Premier League newcomers Hull City to Tynecastle for a pre-season friendly in August. The match, scheduled for Sunday, August 3, is likely to be the Edinburgh club's final warm-up game before the SPL season starts six days later. As revealed in yesterday's Evening News, friendlies with Kaiserslautern and Wehen Wiesbaden have already been arranged for July during the pre-season tour of Germany. Tickets and kick-off times have yet to be finalised for Hull's visit to Edinburgh, but the game should be an attractive fixture given the Yorkshire side secured promotion to the Premier League last season. Hearts last faced Hull three years ago, when they secured a 1-0 victory at the KC Stadium during the early days of George Burley's reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sexington Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 ?2 million and the jobs a good un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 ?2 million and the jobs a good un. Leaves us without a Captain and a decent defender IMO. At the moment thats worth more than the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 As somebody else said on another Berra thread, normally I'd be delighted to get ?2 million for an average defender like Berra - but who we would replace him with would concern me. Who currently plays at the back for Kaunas? Anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 As somebody else said on another Berra thread, normally I'd be delighted to get ?2 million for an average defender like Berra - but who we would replace him with would concern me. Who currently plays at the back for Kaunas? Anybody know?[/QUOTE] I give you Kancelskis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sexington Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Leaves us without a Captain and a decent defender IMO. At the moment thats worth more than the cash. He's never worth 2 million mate. As a captain or a defender. We could bring a decent player in for a quarter of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I give you Kancelskis. We could probably do worse than a Kancelskis/Karapidis pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Kidd Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I liked Berra until I got his autograph on a Hearts top for a charity and he had put Berra 4 on it. What a fud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 He's never worth 2 million mate. As a captain or a defender. We could bring a decent player in for a quarter of that. But will we CS ? We have not replaced an outgoing player with a better one since George Burley was the Manager. There is no evidence to suggest that is about change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Leaves us without a Captain and a decent defender IMO. At the moment thats worth more than the cash. He was never a captain unfortunately. Not now certainly, maybe in the future. Karipidas with McGowan / Rapnik alongside would work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallschunkychicken Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I liked Berra until I got his autograph on a Hearts top for a charity and he had put Berra 4 on it. What a fud. Do they not all do that? So that if their signature is illegible you at least know who the hell it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I liked Berra until I got his autograph on a Hearts top for a charity and he had put Berra 4 on it. What a fud. I could be wrong here WK but I think the majority of players put their Squad Number alongside their name when autographing a shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.A.N.S Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Take ?2m for him and put it in for Reynolds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 We could probably do worse than a Kancelskis/Karapidis pairing. I'm still not convinced by Kancelskis and I figure that's probably because I haven't seen him play all that much, or even just get a regular game. But you're not the first I've seen mention his name over the past few days so I guess there must be something about him.... Karipidis has his moments, sure.... but if we lose Berra I'd like to see a seasoned pro come in at CH. We're missing that bit of experience I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 He was never a captain unfortunately. Not now certainly, maybe in the future. Karipidas with McGowan / Rapnik alongside would work for me. This isnt really a Captain debate. He may not be a Captain, but he is the best option we currently have. Therefore, we are still losing a Captain, albeit maybe not a very great one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I could be wrong here WK but I think the majority of players put their Squad Number alongside their name when autographing a shirt. Yeah, many of them do. At least on the shirts I've seen. Just as well really, wouldn't have a clue whose signature it was otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Oh here we go Threads like this makes me wonder why people bother to go watch football. It seems as if there are a lot of people on here that support Hearts but aint that bothered about football. People also fall into the trap of ignoring Vlad's cute little erse tap strapline of not worrying about the debt So, if we do not have to worry about the debt, we know that ?2m wont be spent on another defender, we know that we dont have a better player up to SPL level ready to step in... Why on earth would we back, nay actively support, the sale of our captain and main defender if we had any interest in improving as a football team? Seems as if people on here support a stadium, a balance sheet and Romanov way more than their interest in football itself. Quite bizarre Romanov has done a sterling job in zipping you all up the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 This isnt really a Captain debate. He may not be a Captain, but he is the best option we currently have. Therefore, we are still losing a Captain, albeit maybe not a very great one. Not a captain debate no, but he's not captain material so having him as the captain is a waste. To be fair I really don't see any leaders at Hearts anymore, apart from Banksy but he won't be playing for much longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Oh here we go Threads like this makes me wonder why people bother to go watch football. It seems as if there are a lot of people on here that support Hearts but aint that bothered about football. People also fall into the trap of ignoring Vlad's cute little erse tap strapline of not worrying about the debt So, if we do not have to worry about the debt, we know that ?2m wont be spent on another defender, we know that we dont have a better player up to SPL level ready to step in... Why on earth would we back, nay actively support, the sale of our captain and main defender if we had any interest in improving as a football team? Seems as if people on here support a stadium, a balance sheet and Romanov way more than their interest in football itself. Quite bizarre Romanov has done a sterling job in zipping you all up the back I don't agree at all... People are simply resigned to the fact that ?2m isn't about to be refused and never mind backing the sale, Berra seemingly wants to go. What is there to debate? We're probably about to lose him, we may as well discuss contingencies rather than waste time getting upset about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Say What Again Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I don't agree at all... People are simply resigned to the fact that ?2m isn't about to be refused and never mind backing the sale, Berra seemingly wants to go. What is there to debate? We're probably about to lose him, we may as well discuss contingencies rather than waste time getting upset about it. I was just going to post along similar lines redm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Leaves us without a Captain and a decent defender IMO. At the moment thats worth more than the cash. Some would argue (possibly me as well) that we have been captain-less all season with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Yeah, many of them do. At least on the shirts I've seen. Just as well really, wouldn't have a clue whose signature it was otherwise! It started when all these players with 'kaus at the end of their name turned up. Pesky Liths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I could be wrong here WK but I think the majority of players put their Squad Number alongside their name when autographing a shirt. They do as mostly their sigs are illegible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 We're probably about to lose him, we may as well discuss contingencies rather than waste time getting upset about it. I tend to agree in this case. But contingencies seem to be all we're doing right across the club. As a more general principle, should we just have accepted we were going to go to Murrayfield and discuss contingencies rather than waste time getting upset about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I don't agree at all... People are simply resigned to the fact that ?2m isn't about to be refused and never mind backing the sale, Berra seemingly wants to go. What is there to debate? We're probably about to lose him, we may as well discuss contingencies rather than waste time getting upset about it. No about half this thread think its a good deal. And most of those people think we'll get by without him and replace him with someone just as good. Ignoring 100% of Vlad's transfer track record. If you support a football team a "good deal" is one which looks to improve the team. Thats not the way Vlad does business Contingencies? Do you think Vlad has contingencies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Some would argue (possibly me as well) that we have been captain-less all season with him. We've been captainless since the best captain in a generation was forced from the club. But thats not the point. Dr Bap sums that point up well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornhillHearts Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I hope I am right as i think Vlad will say no deal in this case as believe it or not he holds our gash team together just about; those that think Gowser or Rapnik could replace him this season need to get themselves along to specsavers. Banderson is just stirring re the 2 million bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Some would argue (possibly me as well) that we have been captain-less all season with him. We've been Captainless since Elvis left imo. And for the lack of support we gave him at the time we deserve all we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I hope I am right as i think Vlad will say no deal in this case as believe it or not he holds our gash team together just about; those that think Gowser or Rapnik could replace him this season need to get themselves along to specsavers.Banderson is just stirring re the 2 million bit. As much as I agree with this............... I do think that lowering the debt at every opportunity the way the Hobo's have done is best for us in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 We've been Captainless since Elvis left imo. And for the lack of support we gave him at the time we deserve all we get. Correct. And credit where credit is due - DH has been telling me for over a month that Der Hun were after Berra. Berra is one player (of amongst 5/6 from our current squad that I would to keep). With regards to Kanchelsis (sp) - did he not return to Kaunas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Kidd Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Didn't realise that's what they did. My mistake then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 With regards to Kanchelsis (sp) - did he not return to Kaunas? Yep but the communication is so bad these days the club dont always check in / check out new/old players, new contracts etc "Contempt" I think the word is Plus a Kaunas loanee player can be flown back to Kaunas Sunday to be banished to Lyga A, only to be parachuted back into the Hearts firsts the next Saturday. Still, we've got the stand to look forward to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 It started when all these players with 'kaus at the end of their name turned up. Pesky Liths. Actually, theirs are the easiest names to figure out. Perhaps unsurprisingly. Just unfortunate that they tend to take up half the shirt...hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Jambo 60 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Not a captain debate no, but he's not captain material so having him as the captain is a waste. To be fair I really don't see any leaders at Hearts anymore, apart from Banksy but he won't be playing for much longer Me too mate to be honest berra is a big softie. Not hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I tend to agree in this case. But contingencies seem to be all we're doing right across the club. As a more general principle, should we just have accepted we were going to go to Murrayfield and discuss contingencies rather than waste time getting upset about it? I agree with the first part...and maybe I'm being thick but I'm not sure at all what you mean by the Murrayfield thing... Tynecastle most definitely is contingency central at the moment. That's not a good thing and I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and say it was. But this situation is one faced by almost every single club other than those at the very top of the football food chain - i.e. club accepts good offer for decent player who wants to play at a higher level; player also keen to move. The contingency plan is also pretty unsurprising as a result. That's the point I'm trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Miko prefers Pinemartins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I agree with the first part...and maybe I'm being thick but I'm not sure at all what you mean by the Murrayfield thing... I'm just illustrating that sitting back and "accepting"/"putting up with" whatever we are told by the owners, isn't always the answer. Tynecastle most definitely is contingency central at the moment. That's not a good thing and I don't think anyone in their right mind would try and say it was. But this situation is one faced by almost every single club other than those at the very top of the football food chain - i.e. club accepts good offer for decent player who wants to play at a higher level; player also keen to move. The contingency plan is also pretty unsurprising as a result. That's the point I'm trying to make. I think we agree. If it was a one off, it would be pretty normal. But when it's happening repeatedly over a long period of time (2 years in our case), it's not a good sign at all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 If Berra goes and the management situation remains the way it is then step forward Zaliukas. Cant wait for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo83 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 A Zaliukas / Karipidis partnership scares the living shecht out of me!! Karipidis did come on to a game when given a run and Zaliukas CAN be a good defender, but when compared to some of our more recent partnerships it would be generous calling it 2nd rate.... Levein / McLaren Weir / Ritchie Pressley / Webster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Yep but the communication is so bad these days the club dont always check in / check out new/old players, new contracts etc "Contempt" I think the word is Plus a Kaunas loanee player can be flown back to Kaunas Sunday to be banished to Lyga A, only to be parachuted back into the Hearts firsts the next Saturday. Still, we've got the stand to look forward to.... We'll find out in Septemberish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Berra receives a lot of stick about not being captain material. I think alot of that is a bit harsh. FFS Pressley couldn't even captain our club well towards the end. That tells its own story. A situation and enviroment has been created and still exists where its impossible to lead. People are constantly undermined and certain players are allowed to get away with far too much. The fact that he stepped up to take the role. Probably shows he's a better leader than 90% of the people in our squad. At least he wants to lead. I think too many people expect the Captain to solve all manners of probelms at the club. When the truth the majority of these issue centre around manager or lack of and interefrence from above. I think a lot of peoples issue is mis directed anger. Berra is one of the few players, I'm actually slightly bothered about leaving. He has probably been our best player for the last 2 years and considering all the garbage that he will have to put up with. In addition to some of the garbage he has to play alongside, I think he has done very well. If we got 2m, I doubt we would see any quality replacement come in. In fact I doubt it would even go to reducing the debt. Insightful and succinct. Nice post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 No about half this thread think its a good deal. And most of those people think we'll get by without him and replace him with someone just as good. Ignoring 100% of Vlad's transfer track record. If you support a football team a "good deal" is one which looks to improve the team. Thats not the way Vlad does business Contingencies? Do you think Vlad has contingencies? Depends how you look at it though, because on paper surely you'd agree that it is a very good deal? ?2m for a player like Berra isn't bad at all. Doesn't matter whether we think its a good deal or not though, unfortunately. It's all down to whether Vlad and Christophe think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 So by the look's of it another captain and internationalist want's to leave Hearts,alarm bell's ringing for the few remaining sheep,no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 [/b] We'll find out in Septemberish. Which year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Berra receives a lot of stick about not being captain material. I think alot of that is a bit harsh. FFS Pressley couldn't even captain our club well towards the end. That tells its own story. A situation and enviroment has been created and still exists where its impossible to lead. People are constantly undermined and certain players are allowed to get away with far too much. The fact that he stepped up to take the role. Probably shows he's a better leader than 90% of the people in our squad. At least he wants to lead. I think too many people expect the Captain to solve all manners of probelms at the club. When the truth the majority of these issue centre around manager or lack of and interefrence from above. I think a lot of peoples issue is mis directed anger. Berra is one of the few players, I'm actually slightly bothered about leaving. He has probably been our best player for the last 2 years and considering all the garbage that he will have to put up with. In addition to some of the garbage he has to play alongside, I think he has done very well. If we got 2m, I doubt we would see any quality replacement come in. In fact I doubt it would even go to reducing the debt. I see your point and agree. Berra might not make a great captain, however he's the only one with the stones to stand up and take the armband. With no manager on the horizon, him leaving is indeed bad news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Depends how you look at it though, because on paper surely you'd agree that it is a very good deal? ?2m for a player like Berra isn't bad at all. Doesn't matter whether we think its a good deal or not though, unfortunately. It's all down to whether Vlad and Christophe think it is. Whatever the merits of Berra the captain, he is the captain, one of the few Scots in the team, one of the most consistent players at the club over the last 18 months (a period within which we have probably only had around 4 consistent performers), and has barely started his career at Hearts The offer may represent reasonable financial value but it is not silly money and it is not money which simply cannot be turned down. He has just broken into the Scotland squad and is only at the very beginning of his journey. Berra is the sort of player that if Romanov had genuine ambitions for Hearts the football club should be being focussed upon as part of the spine upon which a football team is founded. He should be invested in further, and it may be over the next 2 years he develops to the stage where a silly Hutton type offer comes in. Hearts have done more u-turns than any governing party since Romanov arrived. We started with the perception we were buying quality players previously only within the grasp of the Old Firm in Scotland and that we were holding onto our internationalists. We then went on to a phase where it looked as though we were investing in youth in order to unleash a team for the future. In the meantime, if we did sell, we were getting top notch fees - Gordon for example. Now it appears we are in a phase where we will listen if not encourage offers at around market value for any sellable asset in the team, whether they have fufilled their potential value to Hearts on the pitch. So no, I dont think ?2m for Berra represents a good deal. He is already ahead of Whitaker and Thompson at his respective stage in his career - and Hibs set the marker with their transfers Anything over ?3m at present would be in the cant turn down category At ?2m it would benefit Hearts far more for him to remain and be one of the few players that earn pass marks at the club. If we sell Berra, and dont replace him or get a manager for next season, we wont be out of the bottom 3. Its a completely pointless strategy and makes me wonder why people are so ambivalent about it all But it is becoming more apparent that football is more family / shopping avoidance, and pub habit continuation for a lot of people than the football itself. And that's fine for people who take that view. For me football needs to be about enjoyment of what I have paid for first, signs of hope / potential / improvement / pulling in the same direction for the future if we are not getting results second. Selling any asset that moves and replacing them with cheap journeymen without any sort of motivation, strong management, tactics etc is not a "good deal" IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 So by the look's of it another captain and internationalist want's to leave Hearts,alarm bell's ringing for the few remaining sheep,no. No. They are glad we are getting ?2m, and still think Vlad will replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 From limited opportunities Kanchelskis seemed pretty good IMO. No nonsense Centre Back in the Maclaren/ Ritchie mould. May not have been happy on the bench though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 From limited opportunities Kanchelskis seemed pretty good IMO. No nonsense Centre Back in the Maclaren/ Ritchie mould. May not have been happy on the bench though. Looked good but too old now and also had a bit of the red mist about him in challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambos are go! Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Looked good but too old now and also had a bit of the red mist about him in challenges. Agreed on that point. Think he was substituted early on once because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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