What Could Have Been

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I, like most Jambos, am frustrated that we were not able to take advantage of a weak Celtic, absent Rangers, and poor Dundee clubs this season and take a crack at the top of the table.

 

The biggest part of the blame for that, to me though, does not fall with Neilson or Levein.  This season we were budgeting carefully, with only second tier champions prize money and the need for rebuilding cash reserves, and as a newly promoted side we were limited in the free transfers we could recruit out of skepticism from potential signings.  Yes, I think we might have done better, but we were on a limited budget and a title challenge would have been an astounding achievement.  So hindsight is 20/20 vision, I realize, but I want to vent for a moment.

 

I'm frustrated about two things.  One, I don't want to completely re-open the Vlad debate, but I do wish he'd taken FoH's offer before his financial empire completely fell apart.  His creditors would have ended up with more money than they got via administration, we never would have gotten the points deduction, and instead of the admin season, we could have begun the rebuilding process a year earlier.

 

Two, I'm still not certain why we didn't take the points deduction for admin in the 2012-13 season.  As I understand it, that would have meant a 15 point deduction.  We would have taken Dundee's place at the bottom of the table, and dropped to the second tier.  Our team of youth would have spent the season fighting Hamilton, QotS, and Falkirk for promotion, and even if we didn't win the league, we might have had the honor of relegating Hibs in the playoffs.  Rather than the demoralizing beatings we took through the winter of that season, they would have played largely at their level.  We then, quite possibly, would have had Budge and Levein taking over with a full season in the top tier before this one, and might have been ready for a title challenge this season.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but those are the decisions that I think most cost us a shot at the title this season.

[Bridge of Djoum]

I generally like your posts mate, but there is too much whataboutery about this. Plus, the amount of threads related to this is incredible. No real need for another.

 

Sorry if sounds harsh, and as I said, you're a good poster, but Its been done to death now.

 

FWIW, I don't think we had a realistic shot at the title this season. Our aims were met, comfortably. Let's just see what the summer brings, and look forward to us building success on the field, as much as we are making strides off it.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I generally like your posts mate, but there is too much whataboutery about this. Plus, the amount of threads related to this is incredible. No real need for another.

 

Sorry if sounds harsh, and as I said, you're a good poster, but Its been done to death now.

 

FWIW, I don't think we had a realistic shot at the title this season. Our aims were met, comfortably. Let's just see what the summer brings, and look forward to us building success on the field, as much as we are making strides off it.

 

Cheers, if it's drivel it won't be the first or the last I post on here.  Been bouncing around in my head for a while, though, so while we're doing season postmortems I put it down.

[Neil Jung]

Our team last season would beat this season's.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Our team last season would beat this season's.

As per, offering nothing but nonsense.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Cheers, if it's drivel it won't be the first or the last I post on here.  Been bouncing around in my head for a while, though, so while we're doing season postmortems I put it down.

Ach, i was harsh. It's 2.45pm and I've not had a beer yet.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Let us look forward. Hopefully some adrenaline to get us going early season

[Don Dan]

UA re the a Vlad offer from FoH, FoH were never really in a position to back it up. Unfortunately it required administration to clear the debt. It also required an Ann Budge figure to carry it off (all hail Queen Ann).

Could we have done better this season? Short answer, no. We achieved more than we set out to achieve also we really did not have the players with the ability to do it (tin hat on). The players we recruited were way of the mark, good enough yes, but not yet. That's why we got them. People seem to forget our recruiting philosophy.

We have ?3m in the bank which some would have splashed out on greedy overpriced players and merry go round managers instead we have achieved our goals and are half way to replacing a dilapidated well loved stand.

Next season the minimum acceptable success would be 3rd, decent cup runs and Europe again. Will that happen I hope so but I won't spit the dummy if it doesn't just like I haven't for the past 55+ years when Hearts didn't tachieve.

[socrates82]

In the litany of "what could have been" seasons for Hearts, this one is pretty far down the list to be honest. There's no doubt we missed a chance to get closer to Aberdeen. Aberdeen and Celtic can also point to a host of chances to pull away from us though.

[Bridge of Djoum]

Spot on.

 

UA re the a Vlad offer from FoH, FoH were never really in a position to back it up. Unfortunately it required administration to clear the debt. It also required an Ann Budge figure to carry it off (all hail Queen Ann).
Could we have done better this season? Short answer, no. We achieved more than we set out to achieve also we really did not have the players with the ability to do it (tin hat on). The players we recruited were way of the mark, good enough yes, but not yet. That's why we got them. People seem to forget our recruiting philosophy.
We have ?3m in the bank which some would have splashed out on greedy overpriced players and merry go round managers instead we have achieved our goals and are half way to replacing a dilapidated well loved stand.
Next season the minimum acceptable success would be 3rd, decent cup runs and Europe again. Will that happen I hope so but I won't spit the dummy if it doesn't just like I haven't for the past 55+ years when Hearts didn't tachieve.

 

 

In the litany of "what could have been" seasons for Hearts, this one is pretty far down the list to be honest. There's no doubt we missed a chance to get closer to Aberdeen. Aberdeen and Celtic can also point to a host of chances to pull away from us though.

Spot on.

[Debut 4]

You know, we react as a season goes on.

 

I think i`ve praised Neilson as much as criticise. But this season was always about finding who can/could cut it in the top division, whether its the new signings or the already signed players who got us out the Championship.

 

That`s where progression(hopefully!!) comes in after the first season back in the top flight. Players taking stock and knowing where they need to improve, the management knowing who needs to go and who needs to stay...then with (hopefully again!!) the managements better judgement we buy the right players to further enhance the squad.

 

Of course there are plenty other aspects to a successful team and the much scrutinised manager will again have a close eye cast on him. I can be blinded by my own desire to win sometimes but even i knew it was alot to ask in a first season to win the league or even finish 2nd. We just didn`t know how good our new players were and they needed time to gel.

[4marsbars]

'What could have been'?

 

We could very easily have gone out of existence.

 

But we're back in Europe, with what seems to be a sustainable model.

 

What's not to like?

[Neil Jung]

'What could have been'?

 

We could very easily have gone out of existence.

 

But we're back in Europe, with what seems to be a sustainable model.

 

What's not to like?

Confusing tactics and the fact that we've got worse over the course of the season.

[socrates82]

Confusing tactics and the fact that we've got worse over the course of the season.

 

It would be more accurate to say we started well, tailed off, recovered and then petered out.

 

The biggest what if of this season is Paterson's wrong sending off vs Hamilton. We were flying at that time and building up the kind of momentum you need to challenge against the odds (See: us in 85/86, 05/06 and 14/15 and Leicester this year). The rest of the season has been pretty much as usual - win or drawn some games we should have lost and lost or drawn some games we should have won, with a bunch of results going as expected.

[Neil Jung]

It would be more accurate to say we started well, tailed off, recovered and then petered out.

 

The biggest what if of this season is Paterson's wrong sending off vs Hamilton. We were flying at that time and building up the kind of momentum you need to challenge against the odds (See: us in 85/86, 05/06 and 14/15 and Leicester this year). The rest of the season has been pretty much as usual - win or drawn some games we should have lost and lost or drawn some games we should have won, with a bunch of results going as expected.

That's fair. What worries me are Robbie's comments about how we're making progress and how we like to pass the ball. I can't see that at all. Even today I read a quote from Robbie saying that the team are inexperienced and you never know how they're going to perform in the top league. I think almost all our players have more experience in the top league than the championship. We were only there for one season. Paterson has been playing since he was 17 ffs.

[socrates82]

That's fair. What worries me are Robbie's comments about how we're making progress and how we like to pass the ball. I can't see that at all. Even today I read a quote from Robbie saying that the team are inexperienced and you never know how they're going to perform in the top league. I think almost all our players have more experience in the top league than the championship. We were only there for one season. Paterson has been playing since he was 17 ffs.

 

Not in Scotland. We do like to pass the ball we just don't always do it well enough. To be fair it's not an easy style of play for Scotland for a whole raft of reasons - impatient crowds, poor or heavy pitches, tradition of most clubs playing 100mph football and flying into tackles, poor standard of referees that don't know how to let games flow, etc

[Neil Jung]

Not in Scotland. We do like to pass the ball we just don't always do it well enough. To be fair it's not an easy style of play for Scotland for a whole raft of reasons - impatient crowds, poor or heavy pitches, tradition of most clubs playing 100mph football and flying into tackles, poor standard of referees that don't know how to let games flow, etc

Gallagher, Paterson, Nicholson, walker, buaben, Gomis, Souttar, Cowie all have played in the premiership. Throw in Pallardo (La Liga), Djoum (who's looked a cut above) and the other bit players and it's hard to justify Robbie's comments. Don't get me wrong I'm onside however I wish the tactics were explained a little more. What's the endgame for example? Long diagonal passes on the smallest pitch in the league?

[tian447]

The thing about your post that gets me the most is the "take a crack at the top of the table" part.

 

We're 3rd, and we will finish so.  That's actually not that bad going, and in seasons gone by we'd have been happy with that.

 

Let's concentrate on building the team up.  I have absolutely no doubt that within the next season or 2, we'll have changed that 3rd place for 2nd, and that if we keep heading in the right direction, we can win the league within the next 5.

 

I don't want a quick fix.  I want a consistently strong Hearts team that I can be proud of for years to come.

 

Success will come.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Ach, i was harsh. It's 2.45pm and I've not had a beer yet.

No harm done.

 

As to our style, I do think we want to pass the ball, and try to do it every game, but teams in the top flight have been much better at sussing it out and shutting it down.  Generally they've watched to see who the connecting link in midfield has been, then blanketed, doubled, tugged, kicked, and baited that player into oblivion.  Whether it's been Djoum, Walker, or Buaben making the link-up play, at times all three of them have been blindingly good, but have also been shut down.

 

Teams know that Paterson can burn them, but that he can also be goaded into fouls.  Teams know Oshaniwa is dangerous with space in front of him, but that he can be pressured into making awful decisions.  They know Augustyn will win every header, but will do nothing incisive with the ball at his feet.  They know Djoum is great, so they deny him the ball and kick him when he has it.  They know Walker will disappear if he's frustrated enough. And Lord knows the book is out on shutting down Sam.

 

I think we're one player short of the full passing game.  Kitchen is fantastic as the deepest lying mid, Buaben works well as a narrow wing, Djoum can play either the second center mid or the attacking mid, and Walker can play either the attacking mid or the supporting striker.  If we had either a top shelf supporting striker, or a true attacking mid, or a second center mid, put Ozturk at the base of that and you've got a central core that could cut teams to bits.  When Sow was up there, he was good enough that we could play the ball to him outside the box and he could make things happen, but Juanma doesn't have that ability to play facing the goal with the ball at his feet, and Dauda has it but just doesn't do it most of the time.

 

So our passing game peters out, and we resort to long diagonals or hoofs to Juanma, and it's eye-bleeding.  But I think we always start by trying to pass.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

On second thoughts, won't bother.

[Peebo]

I, like most Jambos, am frustrated that we were not able to take advantage of a weak Celtic, absent Rangers, and poor Dundee clubs this season and take a crack at the top of the table.

 

The biggest part of the blame for that, to me though, does not fall with Neilson or Levein. This season we were budgeting carefully, with only second tier champions prize money and the need for rebuilding cash reserves, and as a newly promoted side we were limited in the free transfers we could recruit out of skepticism from potential signings. Yes, I think we might have done better, but we were on a limited budget and a title challenge would have been an astounding achievement. So hindsight is 20/20 vision, I realize, but I want to vent for a moment.

 

I'm frustrated about two things. One, I don't want to completely re-open the Vlad debate, but I do wish he'd taken FoH's offer before his financial empire completely fell apart. His creditors would have ended up with more money than they got via administration, we never would have gotten the points deduction, and instead of the admin season, we could have begun the rebuilding process a year earlier.

 

Two, I'm still not certain why we didn't take the points deduction for admin in the 2012-13 season. As I understand it, that would have meant a 15 point deduction. We would have taken Dundee's place at the bottom of the table, and dropped to the second tier. Our team of youth would have spent the season fighting Hamilton, QotS, and Falkirk for promotion, and even if we didn't win the league, we might have had the honor of relegating Hibs in the playoffs. Rather than the demoralizing beatings we took through the winter of that season, they would have played largely at their level. We then, quite possibly, would have had Budge and Levein taking over with a full season in the top tier before this one, and might have been ready for a title challenge this season.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but those are the decisions that I think most cost us a shot at the title this season.

It's **** all to do with hindsight. You're apparently frustrated about things not happening as if it was down to viable choices that weren't made.

 

Why didn't we take the points deduction for admin in the 2012/13 season? Because we, as a business, we're not in administration during that period. Do you think that going into administration is actually a decision taken lightly, as some sort of tactical option?

[August Landmesser]

Our team last season would beat this season's.

Yup. This season's team wouldn't have a hope against the defensive rock that is Danny Wilson, the goal machine that is James Keatings, and the midfield maestro that is Kenny Anderson.

 

Not a hope.

 

Sent from my LG-H340n using Tapatalk

[Watt-Zeefuik]

It's **** all to do with hindsight. You're apparently frustrated about things not happening as if it was down to viable choices that weren't made.

 

Why didn't we take the points deduction for admin in the 2012/13 season? Because we, as a business, we're not in administration during that period. Do you think that going into administration is actually a decision taken lightly, as some sort of tactical option?

 

I was remembering the Ukio admin event as happening right at the end of the 2013 season, and us entering administration as happening just after the conclusion of the season.  I was under the impression we could have effectively declared we had incurred an admin event in that season and taken the points deduction then.  Going by memory, I could be quite wrong.

[Unknown user]

I was remembering the Ukio admin event as happening right at the end of the 2013 season, and us entering administration as happening just after the conclusion of the season. I was under the impression we could have effectively declared we had incurred an admin event in that season and taken the points deduction then. Going by memory, I could be quite wrong.

We would have incurred an additional points deduction the following season for still being in admin anyway

[Spencer]

UA re the a Vlad offer from FoH, FoH were never really in a position to back it up. Unfortunately it required administration to clear the debt. It also required an Ann Budge figure to carry it off (all hail Queen Ann).

Could we have done better this season? Short answer, no. We achieved more than we set out to achieve also we really did not have the players with the ability to do it (tin hat on). The players we recruited were way of the mark, good enough yes, but not yet. That's why we got them. People seem to forget our recruiting philosophy.

We have ?3m in the bank which some would have splashed out on greedy overpriced players and merry go round managers instead we have achieved our goals and are half way to replacing a dilapidated well loved stand.

Next season the minimum acceptable success would be 3rd, decent cup runs and Europe again. Will that happen I hope so but I won't spit the dummy if it doesn't just like I haven't for the past 55+ years when Hearts didn't tachieve.

Good post

[Watt-Zeefuik]

We would have incurred an additional points deduction the following season for still being in admin anyway

 

Really?  Well, in that case, that's at least one out of two that are bollocks. 

[Jammy T]

You know, we react as a season goes on.

 

I think i`ve praised Neilson as much as criticise. But this season was always about finding who can/could cut it in the top division, whether its the new signings or the already signed players who got us out the Championship.

 

That`s where progression(hopefully!!) comes in after the first season back in the top flight. Players taking stock and knowing where they need to improve, the management knowing who needs to go and who needs to stay...then with (hopefully again!!) the managements better judgement we buy the right players to further enhance the squad.

 

Of course there are plenty other aspects to a successful team and the much scrutinised manager will again have a close eye cast on him. I can be blinded by my own desire to win sometimes but even i knew it was alot to ask in a first season to win the league or even finish 2nd. We just didn`t know how good our new players were and they needed time to gel.

Good post.

[Debut 4]

Good post.

[Debut 4]

 

Good post.

cheers

[Neil Jung]

Yup. This season's team wouldn't have a hope against the defensive rock that is Danny Wilson, the goal machine that is James Keatings, and the midfield maestro that is Kenny Anderson.

 

Not a hope.

 

Sent from my LG-H340n using Tapatalk

The latter hardly played and Keatings wasn't first choice. It's not so much about the players anyway, but the approach to games.

[Dalstonjambo]

Gallagher, Paterson, Nicholson, walker, buaben, Gomis, Souttar, Cowie all have played in the premiership. Throw in Pallardo (La Liga), Djoum (who's looked a cut above) and the other bit players and it's hard to justify Robbie's comments. Don't get me wrong I'm onside however I wish the tactics were explained a little more. What's the endgame for example? Long diagonal passes on the smallest pitch in the league?

Surely you aren't mentioning a player who was a non appearing sub goalkeeper who we released in January to support an argument about how we should have been better this season?

 

'I wish the tactics were explained a little more' - don't even know where to start here. 

[Neil Jung]

Surely you aren't mentioning a player who was a non appearing sub goalkeeper who we released in January to support an argument about how we should have been better this season?

 

'I wish the tactics were explained a little more' - don't even know where to start here.

Nope, meant Alexander.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

I'm not frustrated with anything at all to do with hearts at the moment.

 

Since we were relegated the only piece of bittersweet news was losing sow in January and the season falling away a bit since then as we have struggled for consistency and attacking flair - but we have still managed to dig out 3rd and have exciting European nights to look forward to. Despite this, the club received good money for sow which is being pumped back in to our long term future, in the form of a new main stand.

 

Vlad was just a nutcase who ran the club into the ground, albeit with some iconic days at Hampden. What happened in the end was inevitable, but since that era ended it's basically been all good news.

[Spencer]

I'm not frustrated with anything at all to do with hearts at the moment.

 

Since we were relegated the only piece of bittersweet news was losing sow in January and the season falling away a bit since then as we have struggled for consistency and attacking flair - but we have still managed to dig out 3rd and have exciting European nights to look forward to. Despite this, the club received good money for sow which is being pumped back in to our long term future, in the form of a new main stand.

 

Vlad was just a nutcase who ran the club into the ground, albeit with some iconic days at Hampden. What happened in the end was inevitable, but since that era ended it's basically been all good news.

There are some who don't like the Fuhrer being referred to in such terms.

 

I suspect you'll be reprimanded just directly

[I.T.K]

I'm not frustrated with anything at all to do with hearts at the moment.

 

Since we were relegated the only piece of bittersweet news was losing sow in January and the season falling away a bit since then as we have struggled for consistency and attacking flair - but we have still managed to dig out 3rd and have exciting European nights to look forward to. Despite this, the club received good money for sow which is being pumped back in to our long term future, in the form of a new main stand.

 

Vlad was just a nutcase who ran the club into the ground, albeit with some iconic days at Hampden. What happened in the end was inevitable, but since that era ended it's basically been all good news.

 

Agreed, everything that has happened with Hearts has been brilliant. 

[colinmaroon]

Surely you aren't mentioning a player who was a non appearing sub goalkeeper who we released in January to support an argument about how we should have been better this season?

 

'I wish the tactics were explained a little more' - don't even know where to start here. 

 

 

It's just nonsense.