Barack Obama

[i8hibsh]

I like the guy - poles aprt from him politically but he seems a decent enough guy

 

HOWEVER seeing as everytime his name is mentioned it comes with a mention of race i have to ask one question.........

 

His mother is white and his father is black. Clearly he is mixed race.

 

why is he referred to as black in every sentence he is mentioned?

 

Isn't he as much white as he is black

[A Boy Named Crow]

I suppose the point is that he would be he first (even a we bit) black president of America. From what I've heard he doesn't really cut it with a lot of black people in the States though, because his family only recently moved there - he has no "slave heritage". It's all way too complicated for me!

[i8hibsh]

I suppose the point is that he would be he first (even a we bit) black president of America. From what I've heard he doesn't really cut it with a lot of black people in the States though, because his family only recently moved there - he has no "slave heritage". It's all way too complicated for me!

 

I do think he is a good politician and seems passionate about his beliefs but I get the feeling the democrats are playing the race card and sex card(for Hilary) when it suited them

 

I think when he calls himself black or when other people call him black that is disrespecting his mothers side of the family

[Deek]

I like the guy - poles aprt from him politically but he seems a decent enough guy

 

HOWEVER seeing as everytime his name is mentioned it comes with a mention of race i have to ask one question.........

 

His mother is white and his father is black. Clearly he is mixed race.

 

why is he referred to as black in every sentence he is mentioned?

 

Isn't he as much white as he is black

 

He has made it known he wants to be know as black. We should respect his diversity rather than question it.

[Boris]

I like the guy - poles aprt from him politically but he seems a decent enough guy

 

I always had you as being right of centre, politically.

 

I'd say Mr Obama is the same...

[Rab87]

Having read his autobiography Barack Obama had many role models as a youngster. He was mainly brought up in Hawaii by his Mother and her parents who were from Kansas, His Father who was from Kenya left when Barack was two.

 

When Barack was Eight his Mother married a man from Indonesia and he lived there until he was ten when he moved back to Hawaii to live with his American Grandparents.

 

From what I have read in his book Barack was brought up not really understanding his race or his true identity.

 

Barack Obama seems to be a very genuine guy who has great ideas on the way government should be run in America. I hope he gets elected in November.

 

He has two books out;

Dreams from my father - his autobiography

The audacity of hope, my thoughts on reclaiming the American dream.

 

Great reads.

[i8hibsh]

I always had you as being right of centre, politically.

 

I'd say Mr Obama is the same...

 

he aint really

[i8hibsh]

He has made it known he wants to be know as black. We should respect his diversity rather than question it.

 

I would't dare question it my only point (innocent as it was) is that he has never said he is mixed race, just black. Is there an undertone in that do you think?

 

If I was of mixed race i'd be just as proud of my black roots as I was white roots.

 

Is he ashamed of his white roots?

[Boris]

he aint really

 

He's an American politician running for the Presidency.

 

Quite simply he HAS to be right of centre.

 

I'd go so far as to say that I don't think any US congressmen are anything but right of centre.

[Professor.Arturo]

The guy seems decent, politically....definately prefer him over Hilary Clinton!

 

I might be wrong, I really cannot see a black man becoming president of America, middle America will not matter much (people I mean, not states), but a lot of folks in the southern states and mid-west still hold 'conservative American' views on race and wont go for it. I'd even say a lot will switch to Republican purely to stop Obama getting to the Whitehouse.

[Rab87]

I would't dare question it my only point (innocent as it was) is that he has never said he is mixed race, just black. Is there an undertone in that do you think?

 

If I was of mixed race i'd be just as proud of my black roots as I was white roots.

 

Is he ashamed of his white roots?

 

He's always spoke of how much of an influence his Mother and Grandparents have been in his life.

 

He's had a white upbringing, he didnt know much of his Kenyan ancestry until his Father died when he was in his late teens.

 

Mixed race he may be but he's as American as anyone in congress.

[Deek]

He's an American politician running for the Presidency.

 

Quite simply he HAS to be right of centre.

 

I'd go so far as to say that I don't think any US congressmen are anything but right of centre.

 

I agree Boris. Both party,s in the USA are right wing. One is just slightly more right wing than the other.

[Deek]

I would't dare question it my only point (innocent as it was) is that he has never said he is mixed race, just black. Is there an undertone in that do you think?

 

If I was of mixed race i'd be just as proud of my black roots as I was white roots.

 

Is he ashamed of his white roots?

 

Why do you say that? You are just looking for a reaction.

[Toggie88]

The thing is, the racecard isn't going to help the democrats much at all. They already get 90%+ of the Black vote.

 

 

The politics of all Presidential candidates were and still are very similiar. McCain or Obama, I don't we will see much difference.

[Toggie88]

 

I'd go so far as to say that I don't think any US congressmen are anything but right of centre.

 

Don't tar them all with the same brush.

 

The Democrats are a lot like the Labour Party here. Overall, they have swung completely to right and can't be described as left in the slightest. However, a few of the backbenchers are still true to the left.

[Boris]

Don't tar them all with the same brush.

 

The Democrats are a lot like the Labour Party here. Overall, they have swung completely to right and can't be described as left in the slightest. However, a few of the backbenchers are still true to the left.

 

Absolute nonsense Toggie.

 

The Democrats have never, ever been anything remotely socialist. To say that they have backbenchers "true to the left" is just wrong. Plain wrong.

[chester copperpot]

If he does win the race to be president, then I'd lay pretty good odds on him being assasinated within a year of his presidency.

 

There's too many white extremists in America for him not to be killed.

[i8hibsh]

Absolute nonsense Toggie.

 

The Democrats have never, ever been anything remotely socialist. To say that they have backbenchers "true to the left" is just wrong. Plain wrong.

 

Trust me Toggie Boris knows a socialist when he sees one

[Boris]

Trust me Toggie Boris knows a socialist when he sees one

 

I think there's a red in you waiting to burst out.

 

You're just not politically mature enough yet to admit it.

[Patrick Bateman]

I bet i8hibsh would like that Bob Roberts fellow ;-)

[Cade]

I don't care what colour he is.

 

His policies are all that matter to me.

 

Unfortunately, in the USA, his race matters a great deal.

[Maximus]

Does it really matter who wins? All U.S Presidents are just puppets, there to be the smiling public face of those who really run the country. Those who hold the purse strings - the Jews, the oil men, the pharmaceutical companies and the banks.

[Boaby Ewing]

Does it really matter who wins? All U.S Presidents are just puppets, there to be the smiling public face of those who really run the country. Those who hold the purse strings - the Jews, the oil men, the pharmaceutical companies and the banks.

 

[Denny Crane]

Interesting article on Obama in relation to Robert Kennedy:-

 

http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=489

[Patrick Bateman]

If anyone wants affirmation of how disgustingly backwards some Americans are, I suggest they type "Stop Obama" into Facebook's search engine. Some honestly believe that he is the Anti-Christ, a Communist, a Fascist, a Muslim, whatever. Their views on homosexuality and abortion (Why should a man have an opinion on such things, unless it absolutely directly affects them?) also come straight out of the 1950s.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

If he does win the race to be president, then I'd lay pretty good odds on him being assasinated within a year of his presidency.

 

There's too many white extremists in America for him not to be killed.

 

Is there any bookies laying odds on this? Genuine question.

[shaun.lawson]

Absolute nonsense Toggie.

 

The Democrats have never, ever been anything remotely socialist. To say that they have backbenchers "true to the left" is just wrong. Plain wrong.

 

They were under FDR, Boris! The New Deal, inspired by extreme economic circumstances, was almost pure socialism in action.

 

Overall though, you're quite right: the entire American political system is to the right of anything in Western Europe. Within that context though, some Democrats are comparable to pro-trade union Labour; and others (mainly on the coasts) to the Lib Dems. If I was an American, that's how I'd be: a West or East coast liberal, identifying chiefly with the Lib Dems if I followed British politics too.

 

Contrary to the labels many seem to tar America with, actually, it'd say a heck of a lot for the place if Obama wins. Could anyone remind me when a black man or woman ever even got close to leading any country in Europe? Moreover, people always seem to forget that the US is a huge continent: you wouldn't expect the people of London and Moscow, or Edinburgh and Athens to hold the same views, would you? So why such disgust when areas of a whole continent are backwards and intolerant in their attitudes too?

 

Funnily enough, just as is the case with some areas of Labour-voting northern England or the inner cities, it's often Democrats who are more culpable of racism - but generally in the midwest much more than anywhere else. The south has changed: naturally, given the huge demographic shifts there in recent decades. But the midwest - Hicksville, in other words - is where you can expect there to be most opposition to Obama, and where, indeed, the shameless Hillary Clinton tried to whip up antagonism to him on plainly racist grounds. Thank heavens, she got what she deserved - so now we can all watch on and see if Obama can prove the American dream really does exist, and go all the way to the White House.

[shaun.lawson]

If anyone wants affirmation of how disgustingly backwards some Americans are, I suggest they type "Stop Obama" into Facebook's search engine. Some honestly believe that he is the Anti-Christ, a Communist, a Fascist, a Muslim, whatever. Their views on homosexuality and abortion (Why should a man have an opinion on such things, unless it absolutely directly affects them?) also come straight out of the 1950s.

 

Er, whose views, Odysseus? There are rabid nutcases in every country anywhere: what's different about the US is the way all issues are up for debate, and politics really matters. Contrast that with the apathy felt over here to the whole process.

 

But on abortion: I bet you didn't know that American laws are actually more liberal than here, did you? The limit in most states is 28 weeks - and an awful lot of the debate centres around what is known as partial birth abortion, which I'd advise you to google and read up on. Unaccountably, the way things are reported, you'd think most Americans were Bible-waving fanatics seeking to blow up all abortion clinics and send any woman exercising her right to choose to hell and damnation - but as with many stereotypes about the place, it's total gibberish.

 

There is also no chance of Roe v Wade ever being overturned, as I reassured friends of mine about when Bush was re-elected in 2004. It suits the (not) Christian (not) right perfectly to have a totem around which they can whip up middle America and blame all the peoples' troubles on evil liberal elites acting like they somehow know better - but if abortion was ever outlawed, what could the religious wackadoolies do instead? Very little, I think you'll find.

[chester copperpot]

Is there any bookies laying odds on this? Genuine question.

 

 

 

I would hope not, and you can bet that anyone who was stupid to lay that bet would be getting a visit from the CIA/MI6 pretty pronto.

[Boris]

They were under FDR, Boris! The New Deal, inspired by extreme economic circumstances, was almost pure socialism in action.

 

 

 

Hmm...or fascism in a corporate state type of way!

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Its nice seeing that being mixed race is enough to get you to power in the thickest country on earth.

 

Maybe ian wright should have a go at the PM's job.

 

I bet half the muppets on here would vote for him just to prove how "cool" and "pc" they are.

 

Barack does seem like a decent enough guy but far too many people are voting for him based on race, the primaries have just became one giant eurovision contest

[Boris]

Its nice seeing that being mixed race is enough to get you to power in the thickest country on earth.

 

Maybe ian wright should have a go at the PM's job.

 

I bet half the muppets on here would vote for him just to prove how "cool" and "pc" they are.

 

Barack does seem like a decent enough guy but far too many people are voting for him based on race, the primaries have just became one giant eurovision contest

 

How is it possible that one person can be so clueless about so many things?

[Denny Crane]

Its nice seeing that being mixed race is enough to get you to power in the thickest country on earth.

 

Maybe ian wright should have a go at the PM's job.

 

I bet half the muppets on here would vote for him just to prove how "cool" and "pc" they are.

 

Barack does seem like a decent enough guy but far too many people are voting for him based on race, the primaries have just became one giant eurovision contest

 

Your first three paragraphs are contemptable and only serves to highlight your own ignorance.

 

As for your final statement - and the bit in bold in particular - have you any market research to back this up? If so, care to share your findings in detail?

[shaun.lawson]

Its nice seeing that being mixed race is enough to get you to power in the thickest country on earth.

 

Maybe ian wright should have a go at the PM's job.

 

I bet half the muppets on here would vote for him just to prove how "cool" and "pc" they are.

 

Barack does seem like a decent enough guy but far too many people are voting for him based on race, the primaries have just became one giant eurovision contest

 

I'm just waiting for you to get caught out, pal. You're bound to overstep the mark someday soon - and a whole host of us will be delighted to see you get your cyber comeuppance. It really couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I think there's a red in you waiting to burst out.

 

You're just not politically mature enough yet to admit it.

 

Boris, i can see i8 smashing his keyboard as he read this!

[I P Knightley]

The thing is, the racecard isn't going to help the democrats much at all. They already get 90%+ of the Black vote.

 

 

The politics of all Presidential candidates were and still are very similiar. McCain or Obama, I don't we will see much difference.

 

Conversely, there's an argument that Obama will get much of the white vote because he's not black.

[Ray Winstone]

Its nice seeing that being mixed race is enough to get you to power in the thickest country on earth.

 

Maybe ian wright should have a go at the PM's job.

 

I bet half the muppets on here would vote for him just to prove how "cool" and "pc" they are.

 

Barack does seem like a decent enough guy but far too many people are voting for him based on race, the primaries have just became one giant eurovision contest

 

Are you sure you are not the political analyst for the Whitehouse or something?

 

Shock - Prancer knows the voting patterns of millions of people in the US.

 

Amazing, I didnt think you could make yourself sound any more of a prat than you have in the past - but I think you have outdone yourself. Either that or you are trolling.

[I P Knightley]

Is there any bookies laying odds on this? Genuine question.

 

Hillary's already suggested openly that she should be Obama's running-mate, giving the reason that the Democrats should have a strong candidate to step in should "anything happen to him" - using Bobby Kennedy as an example.

 

I don't think she winked and tapped the side of her nose as she said 'in case anything happens.'

[Boris]

Hillary's already suggested openly that she should be Obama's running-mate, giving the reason that the Democrats should have a strong candidate to step in should "anything happen to him" - using Bobby Kennedy as an example.

 

I don't think she winked and tapped the side of her nose as she said 'in case anything happens.'

 

"You may think that...I couldn't possibly comment."

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm just waiting for you to get caught out, pal. You're bound to overstep the mark someday soon - and a whole host of us will be delighted to see you get your cyber comeuppance. It really couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

 

He must have some anti-assault device on his IP as his promotion of "a kill of refugees" quote on another thread seems to have gone unpunished.

[Snake Plissken]

They were under FDR, Boris! The New Deal, inspired by extreme economic circumstances, was almost pure socialism in action.

 

Overall though, you're quite right: the entire American political system is to the right of anything in Western Europe. Within that context though, some Democrats are comparable to pro-trade union Labour; and others (mainly on the coasts) to the Lib Dems. If I was an American, that's how I'd be: a West or East coast liberal, identifying chiefly with the Lib Dems if I followed British politics too.

 

Contrary to the labels many seem to tar America with, actually, it'd say a heck of a lot for the place if Obama wins. Could anyone remind me when a black man or woman ever even got close to leading any country in Europe? Moreover, people always seem to forget that the US is a huge continent: you wouldn't expect the people of London and Moscow, or Edinburgh and Athens to hold the same views, would you? So why such disgust when areas of a whole continent are backwards and intolerant in their attitudes too?

 

Funnily enough, just as is the case with some areas of Labour-voting northern England or the inner cities, it's often Democrats who are more culpable of racism - but generally in the midwest much more than anywhere else. The south has changed: naturally, given the huge demographic shifts there in recent decades. But the midwest - Hicksville, in other words - is where you can expect there to be most opposition to Obama, and where, indeed, the shameless Hillary Clinton tried to whip up antagonism to him on plainly racist grounds. Thank heavens, she got what she deserved - so now we can all watch on and see if Obama can prove the American dream really does exist, and go all the way to the White House.

 

Well said Shaun.

[SlyNB]

It's about as accurate to call him black as it is to call him white.

[John Findlay]

I agree Boris. Both party,s in the USA are right wing. One is just slightly more right wing than the other.

 

 

Just like Labour and the Conservatives over here. Only it is Labour that are more right wing than the Consevatives nowadays.

 

Then again Fettes College always was a hotbed for breeding socialists.

 

 

 

 

John

[i8hibsh]

I think there's a red in you waiting to burst out.

 

You're just not politically mature enough yet to admit it.

 

I'm more likely to be selected to become a Jamboskickback Moderator than I am swaying towards socialist beliefs

 

And you just ask the mods how unlikely that is

[i8hibsh]

Does it really matter who wins? All U.S Presidents are just puppets, there to be the smiling public face of those who really run the country. Those who hold the purse strings - the Jews, the oil men, the pharmaceutical companies and the banks.

 

too right it matters like it or lump it

 

american politics affects the entire planet

[Boris]

too right it matters like it or lump it

 

american politics affects the entire planet

 

I think his point was that although the singer may change, the song remains the same.

[i8hibsh]

I think his point was that although the singer may change, the song remains the same.

 

Politics never stays the change

 

It changes witht he people (in the West)

 

believe it or not

 

Even if McCain and the Republicans win you can bet yuor botom dollar you will not have an administration like Bush's

[Boris]

I'm more likely to be selected to become a Jamboskickback Moderator than I am swaying towards socialist beliefs

 

And you just ask the mods how unlikely that is

 

You seemed to be advocating internationalism on the Oil thread...

 

Thin end of the (red) wedge mate!

[i8hibsh]

You seemed to be advocating internationalism on the Oil thread...

 

Thin end of the (red) wedge mate!

 

My point is clear

 

to win the 1997 election Labour had to do something drastic. They had to shrug off the trade Union party image, get a new brand (New Labour), get a new young 'hip' leader and not so much slide to the right but take an almighty jump to the right. People were getting sick of Tories but were happy with the political direction we were all going in.

 

Labour sold out to capitalise (excuse the pun)

 

The EXACT same is happening with the Tories now

 

 

I am very much of the Tory persuasion but I have to give Labour my plaudits. I don't think they did a terrible job and I think Brown and Blair were pretty decent leaders. However time is up and we need to see blue again. Just maybe get a leader that has a bit of bottle and charisma and we could be mighty one more!

[shaun.lawson]

My point is clear

 

to win the 1997 election Labour had to do something drastic. They had to shrug off the trade Union party image, get a new brand (New Labour), get a new young 'hip' leader and not so much slide to the right but take an almighty jump to the right. People were getting sick of Tories but were happy with the political direction we were all going in.

 

Labour sold out to capitalise (excuse the pun)

 

The EXACT same is happening with the Tories now

 

 

I am very much of the Tory persuasion but I have to give Labour my plaudits. I don't think they did a terrible job and I think Brown and Blair were pretty decent leaders. However time is up and we need to see blue again. Just maybe get a leader that has a bit of bottle and charisma and we could be mighty one more!

 

 

Exactly, i8. It drives me crackers when people complain about 'lack of choice' or 'all the parties being the same'. Why? It's only this way because it's what the electorate want!

 

Four times we were offered the chance to vote socialist; and four times, Labour were walloped. Then, three times (and in 2001 especially) we rejected a right wing rabble obsessed with Europe, which seemed to have nothing to offer a modern, twenty-first century Britain. So first Labour moved to the centre ground; and now, not before time, the Tories have started doing the same.

 

It's actually a very clear sign that democracy works - and moreover, that first Thatcher, then Blair's consensus has effectively been accepted; because the opposition aren't going to overturn it once in power. Personally, I'm left of centre economically, and very liberal socially (in the most liberal 0.5% of the British population according to the national electoral survey!), but at present, am envisaging abstaining at the next general election. Labour are tired: there seems little point in voting for them, not least when disgusting, wholly cynical measures like abolishing the 10p tax rate are dreamt up by Gordon and chums. And these things are cyclical: at national level, this is still very much a two-party system, and no party can stay in power for ever. Indeed, it's if they did that the real trouble would start...

 

I'm still not 100% convinced that the Tories will win - it's perfectly possible Labour could yet rouse themselves for one last push a la the Tories in '92 - but the prospect of Cameron becoming Prime Minister doesn't scare me at all. They now seem a perfectly respectable, electable, changing party to me; and in reality, at some almost indefinable point, the opposition ceases to be the opposition and becomes the government-in-waiting in the eyes of the public, usually when they appear the more centrist, moderate option. And if we haven't quite reached that point yet, it's awfully, awfully close now.