FenderJaguar7 Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I recently re watched this Denzel Wahington movie on Rubin "Hurricane" Carter and it is a great performance from him. After reading up a bit on the finer details of the case, basically how a supposed "innocent" man could face such injustice, I came across this which was quite shocking: http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/04/spare_us_the_lies_about_the_late_hurricane_carter_mulshine.html Thoughts? Just shows you the power of Hollywood twisting actual facts. Even stranger that people accepted the events in the book/movie as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 I recently re watched this Denzel Wahington movie on Rubin "Hurricane" Carter and it is a great performance from him. After reading up a bit on the finer details of the case, basically how a supposed "innocent" man could face such injustice, I came across this which was quite shocking: http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/04/spare_us_the_lies_about_the_late_hurricane_carter_mulshine.html Thoughts? Just shows you the power of Hollywood twisting actual facts. Even stranger that people accepted the events in the book/movie as fact. I dunno about facts. That just looks like one guys opinion too. I trust Dylan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenderJaguar7 Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 I dunno about facts. That just looks like one guys opinion too. I trust Dylan.Dylan never performed the song again after Carter beat up a woman (who raised money for his defence) to within an inch of her life when he was out on bail in 1976. Quite the hero! I'm not for one secong implying I know if he's guilty or not, it's just that a quick google search will actually show the man was an animal and not quite the Malcolm X figure depicted by Hollywood. He laughed about stabbing a man all over his body "apart from his feet" and how him and his mate used to go out in New Jersey with their guns and rob women, beat up old people and shoot at people on the street. Also the movie and song are based on his book........the opinion of one man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Malcolm X was also a gangster but changed, as he did later in life when it came to his views on "white Devils". A change which cost him his life. Because Carter was a criminal does that mean it was okay for the cops to fit him up for something he didn't do? He was no saint but who is? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Malcolm X was also a gangster but changed, as he did later in life when it came to his views on "white Devils". A change which cost him his life. Because Carter was a criminal does that mean it was okay for the cops to fit him up for something he didn't do? He was no saint but who is? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk These guys? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_saints?wprov=sfla1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 It's hard to be a saint in the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 These guys? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_saints?wprov=sfla1 St Augustine is on that. Dylan sang bout him too so he's probably an animal shagger Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenderJaguar7 Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 Malcolm X was also a gangster but changed, as he did later in life when it came to his views on "white Devils". A change which cost him his life. Because Carter was a criminal does that mean it was okay for the cops to fit him up for something he didn't do? He was no saint but who is? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk To be honest I don't really care for men who beat up women and stab pensioners so it's a pity they didn't "frame" him for longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 To be honest I don't really care for men who beat up women and stab pensioners so it's a pity they didn't "frame" him for longer. Okay then. We'll have to agree to differ there then bud Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenderJaguar7 Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 Okay then. We'll have to agree to differ there then bud Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk My only real point was, regardless of the conviction, did he/didn't he, was I feel his character was portrayed completely wrong in the movie and people believed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 My only real point was, regardless of the conviction, did he/didn't he, was I feel his character was portrayed completely wrong in the movie and people believed it.Fair enough. I thought the movie was more about the demonisation of black men meself and how easy it was to get white juries to convict them in those days. I only know what I know about Carter from the song, film and what I've read in, admittedly liberal newspapers and magazines Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenderJaguar7 Posted March 15, 2016 Author Share Posted March 15, 2016 Fair enough. I thought the movie was more about the demonisation of black men meself and how easy it was to get white juries to convict them in those days. I only know what I know about Carter from the song, film and what I've read in, admittedly liberal newspapers and magazines Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Aye I mean if anything good did come out of it then it was a positive that this problem was highlighted and may have helped actual innocent people in the future. It still is a problem in the US. Problem I have with the whole white jury thing is there were two black jurors who found him guilty! Again, it didn't fit the racist narrative of the story though. The thing that annoyed me mate was I loved the film and the songs immense!! Just shows you should take Hollywood "biopics" with a pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Aye I mean if anything good did come out of it then it was a positive that this problem was highlighted and may have helped actual innocent people in the future. It still is a problem in the US. Problem I have with the whole white jury thing is there were two black jurors who found him guilty! Again, it didn't fit the racist narrative of the story though. The thing that annoyed me mate was I loved the film and the songs immense!! Just shows you should take Hollywood "biopics" with a pinch of salt. Yeah I know what you mean but I'm glad I grew up when musicians and filmmakers created stuff that made you look deeper into stuff like Oliver Stones El Salvador or The Clash with Sandinista and being a Dylan fan is like going to school Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Crutchfield Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Yeah I know what you mean but I'm glad I grew up when musicians and filmmakers created stuff that made you look deeper into stuff like Oliver Stones El Salvador or The Clash with Sandinista and being a Dylan fan is like going to school Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Salvador is a great movie - James Woods is incredible in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Salvador is a great movie - James Woods is incredible in that.James Wood is a great actor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Dylan never performed the song again after Carter beat up a woman (who raised money for his defence) to within an inch of her life when he was out on bail in 1976. Quite the hero! I never knew that. Has he publicly disowned the song/Carter or did he just go quiet? I always thought it was a great "story-telling" song (may have been a thread on that theme about three years ago). Still is, I suppose, even though the 'story' might be a bit more fictional or romanticised than I thought at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 Dylan never performed the song again after Carter beat up a woman (who raised money for his defence) to within an inch of her life when he was out on bail in 1976. Quite the hero! Correct. Dylan never performed it again after the Houston benefit concert. The film was a work of faction but regardless of Carter the man, Dylan's song and the Desire album were masterpieces. I particularly liked Scarlet Rivera's violin work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 The film was a work of faction but regardless of Carter the man, Dylan's song and the Desire album were masterpieces. I particularly liked Scarlet Rivera's violin work. Lots of bad people on that album, not least of all Isis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenderJaguar7 Posted March 16, 2016 Author Share Posted March 16, 2016 I never knew that. Has he publicly disowned the song/Carter or did he just go quiet? I always thought it was a great "story-telling" song (may have been a thread on that theme about three years ago). Still is, I suppose, even though the 'story' might be a bit more fictional or romanticised than I thought at first.Yeah. It seemed Dylan kept his silence about it. I mean no one will ever know now if he was guilty or framed but it's safe to say he was about as far from the heroic figure Denzel Washington painted as possible. In know it's Hollywood and all that but I felt a bit fooled and taken in by the movie....esp when in interviews/award shows etc they were treating him like Muhammad Ali ffs! It's like Straight Outta Compton making Dr Dre out to be a gangster lol He was softer than big bird from sesame street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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