Rick Grimes Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Anyone know anything about these? Had work carried out on my stair last year that took 11 months to complete (mainly because they worked 3 hrs a day). Before hand I didn't receive any demand notices or estimates. I've now had 2 bills come through my door for the same Statutory Notice, but covering different groups of flats. One comes to just over ?400 per flat, shared amongst 28, for repairs to chimneys. The other comes to nearly ?8k !!! This one covers chimney repairs again, but also reroofing. They've charged for scaffold hire on both, despite the fact it was the same scaffolding & for the second bill they've charged 7 times as much, which they've also done for the chimney work. The scaffolding was up for 8 weeks extra because the stone delivered was "defective" but we still appear to being charged for the time... Any idea how it works if there's 2 bills for the same notice, or how to complain/fight the cost of this? This is going to ****ing ruin me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwull22 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Anyone know anything about these? Had work carried out on my stair last year that took 11 months to complete (mainly because they worked 3 hrs a day). Before hand I didn't receive any demand notices or estimates. I've now had 2 bills come through my door for the same Statutory Notice, but covering different groups of flats. One comes to just over ?400 per flat, shared amongst 28, for repairs to chimneys. The other comes to nearly ?8k !!! This one covers chimney repairs again, but also reroofing. They've charged for scaffold hire on both, despite the fact it was the same scaffolding & for the second bill they've charged 7 times as much, which they've also done for the chimney work. The scaffolding was up for 8 weeks extra because the stone delivered was "defective" but we still appear to being charged for the time... Any idea how it works if there's 2 bills for the same notice, or how to complain/fight the cost of this? This is going to ****ing ruin me! you cant pay what you dont have, I dont think you have to pay the bill in a one-er i think you can set up a payment plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Anyone know anything about these? Had work carried out on my stair last year that took 11 months to complete (mainly because they worked 3 hrs a day). Before hand I didn't receive any demand notices or estimates. I've now had 2 bills come through my door for the same Statutory Notice, but covering different groups of flats. One comes to just over ?400 per flat, shared amongst 28, for repairs to chimneys. The other comes to nearly ?8k !!! This one covers chimney repairs again, but also reroofing. They've charged for scaffold hire on both, despite the fact it was the same scaffolding & for the second bill they've charged 7 times as much, which they've also done for the chimney work. The scaffolding was up for 8 weeks extra because the stone delivered was "defective" but we still appear to being charged for the time... Any idea how it works if there's 2 bills for the same notice, or how to complain/fight the cost of this? This is going to ****ing ruin me! Im getting something similar done to my flat and its around ?550 for the same job. You wont get any demand notices or estimates in as its the council and the notice is the "estimate". Its up to the owners of the flats (so ive been told) to ensure the work gets done if they want it cheaper but its easier comeback if it turns out its cowboys doing the work. I was told by the council's repair people that the scaffolding will not cost any extra if its an emergency repair but you dont say if it is or not. Im not sure how it can be the same statutory notice if its different sets of flats though. I would query the cost of the second one though and complain that there was little work done in this period. The council are usually ok if you want to pay it up, so as long as they get their money. If not the Ombudsman is the place to go. Not sure if that helps though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavsmith Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I had an issue a few years back - the initial estimate was for ?300 or so per flat, however when the bill came in it was for loads more (?800 I think). Anyway, I wrote off to the cooncil asking for a breakdown of costs etc and after reviewing this there an anomaly contained within it - I think it was something to do with the contractors not having the right materials at the time of the scaffolding going up and the cooncil took ?200 (?3200 in total) off per flat owing to the additional charges made whilst the scaffolding was up unnecessarily. Another thing I noticed is that the original quote was based on a different financial year so the added on the cost of the increase in materials which was a ridiculous amount and was well above inflation. Incidentally the cooncil do not put the contract out to tender if the total bill it under ?10k. My tenements initial estimate was under ?10k however came in at over ?10k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavsmith Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Im getting something similar done to my flat and its around ?550 for the same job. You wont get any demand notices or estimates in as its the council and the notice is the "estimate". Its up to the owners of the flats (so ive been told) to ensure the work gets done if they want it cheaper but its easier comeback if it turns out its cowboys doing the work. I was told by the council's repair people that the scaffolding will not cost any extra if its an emergency repair but you dont say if it is or not. Im not sure how it can be the same statutory notice if its different sets of flats though. I would query the cost of the second one though and complain that there was little work done in this period. The council are usually ok if you want to pay it up, so as long as they get their money. If not the Ombudsman is the place to go. Not sure if that helps though. The council also take 15% on top of the final bill....and if you want to pay it in instalments then the charge you interest as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The council also take 15% on top of the final bill....and if you want to pay it in instalments then the charge you interest as well. I asked them about that and said no extra charges (including interest) anymore. Might be because I whinge constantly at them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 cheers for all of those replies. the notice is also not in my name, despite me being well up to date on the electoral roll etc, so lawyers are the first stop to see if its ex-tenants that are liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 cheers for all of those replies. the notice is also not in my name, despite me being well up to date on the electoral roll etc, so lawyers are the first stop to see if its ex-tenants that are liable. Unfortunately not. Whoever is in the house at the time of repair is liable. Generally the notice will come in saying "Mr J Smith (or Occupier)" to cover the councils back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgieboy Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Same thing happend to me mate, never had any notice or letter through my door , scaffold up for 4 months when a quick tower would have done , council guys on a 2 hour day etc,,etc. I refused to pay due to non notification. It eventually (3 years later) went to some kind of final notice with a meeting I attended at the City Chambers, chaired by H...s, who treated me as if I had just dropped out of a dogs erse. They actually gave me a copy of the letter which had been supposedly sent to me(statutary notice) and it was dated 1 year after the job was completed.Unbelievable but true, bottom line I had to pay , ?200 more than the original for admin, costs , late payment etc. I also asked who had passed the works done on completion (I had the only access key to the roof) they gave me a name of an inspector, and when I asked to speak to the guy , they told me he had left his post, lies all the way , they just conjure up theyr,e own rules as they go along .I hope you get a better result than me , but it means going legal in a big way, these cretins can afford it if you take them on though. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 When a statutory notice is served, the property owners have two options. 1. Get together and jointly agree a deal with a commercial contractor. This way you get proper estimates, contracts etc, and legal recourse should something go awry. 2. Ignore the statutory notice. If this happens, the council will eventually arrange to have the work done. If this happens, the property owners will get screwed financially as the council's main priority is to get the work done, not worry about the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgieboy Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 True Therapist, but when you do NOT receive the Stat. Notice, you do,nt get the opportunity of the choices you quote , as happened to myself, as it turned out 2 persons actually received the letters , strangely they were both elderly. The 4(*) other owner occupiers in the stair did not receive any communication, and obviously new nothing regarding repairs. The first I knew anything about the repairs to our roof was when a lorry load of scaffolding was unloaded in my front garden:eek:, which was then swiftly reloaded when I requested them to GTF. I later found out that 1 of the 4(*)had actually contacted the council to have a Stat . Not. served for roof repairs, she had not informed any of the owners in the stair of this action ,(this negated any chance of getting our own contractor) and by this time had sold her house and moved , although I successfully traced her afterwards and she had to pay one sixth of total cost(6 in the stair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 True Therapist, but when you do NOT receive the Stat. Notice, you do,nt get the opportunity of the choices you quote I hear what you're saying, but I wasn't claiming to know what the procedures are that surround serving the notice. They could be like a speeding NIP where the authorities don't have to prove the notice was received, merely that it was sent out? I'd be interested to know the answer to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgieboy Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 What you say is true , they do not have to prove the notice was received, but they could not prove to me they had actually served myself with an S.N. nor 3 other households, hence the copy of the original dated 1 year later being given to me when I demanded to see the SN. The particular meeting I attended was also attended by 2 dozen others, with the same complaint, each individual complaint being heard in open court style where everyone else could hear, everyone had the same story , ie. no notification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgieboy Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Apologies , to clarify, the 2 dozen others were complainants from all over the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Sounds shan to say it but I wish you luck with it. You are pretty much screwed mate. The council are unrelenting *******s when it comes to stuff like this. Also, the amount of money wasted due to the stuff you mentioned is commonplace. One stair that I service had a bill for ?50 000 per flat. It actually made the Evening News. People were having to remortgage/ move etc. The thing to bear in mind, (and I in no way support what the council does in these situations), is that Edinburghs tenements have been left to rot for decades. If no-one lifts a finger to even clean the stair then you can imagine the condition that the roof/chimneys/stonework etc on a lot of properties. There are chunks falling from buildings. The council are now clamping down on it all. If you notice, there are a hell of a lot more scaffoldings up around these buildings now. Unfotunately, the costs are massive for some of the required repairs. Terrible to be in a position like that. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 A statutory notice situation at a flat I had in Comely Bank Avenue was real eye opener. Little day to day activity, poor project management, poor repairs and damage to property that took some time for the contractor to repair. One of the reasons we moved from our last flat in Thirlestane Road was becasue we were wary of the likelihood of an SN being served on the building. Fortunately for us it was more than 8 years before the SN was served and it took an amazing 2 years for the repairs to be completed. I understand from a former neighbour that each flat had to pay ?20K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Is this just another example of why flats (especially) in this city are massively overpriced ? (Not gunning for another housing crash argument just interested) At least when you own your own home you can pick and choose what and when you do with it (Within reason). Being asked to pay 200k for a share of a building, with complete strangers, that can end up costing you thousands to repair without you even knowing about it... Sounds a little excessive ? And what happens if this sort of thing happens now and many people cannot re-mortgage to pay off a 20k bill ? Big trouble waiting to happen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 you cant pay what you dont have, I dont think you have to pay the bill in a one-er i think you can set up a payment plan If you don't pay you will get a charge against your home and will not be able to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Sounds a little excessive ? And what happens if this sort of thing happens now and many people cannot re-mortgage to pay off a 20k bill ? Big trouble waiting to happen ? You only pay your share so other people's finances are irrelevant. If they cant pay you do not make up the shortfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 If you don't pay you will get a charge against your home and will not be able to sell. You can still sell with an inhibition in place. The first thing your solicitor would do after the sale is completed is discharge the inhibition from the proceeds of sale. You wouldn't have a choice in the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future's Maroon Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 It also depends on when you purchased the flat (assuming you are the owner - if you are just a tennent in a lease dont worry about it). In some case's when people buy/sell properties it is written in to the deal that any work due to be carried out under a Stat. Notice will be paid by the previous owner or is taken into account with the final sale price....if you have owned your flat for many a year (e.g before the Stat notice was served), unfortunately your liable for the costs. I advise you contact the Stat Notice dept asap so you know exactly what is going on with these two invoices. Here's a link to find out more info (also has contact numbers for you). http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/Environment/Planning_buildings_i_i_/Property%20Conservation/CEC_statutory_notices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Unfortunately not. Whoever is in the house at the time of repair is liable. Generally the notice will come in saying "Mr J Smith (or Occupier)" to cover the councils back. I don't believe that to be the case. I was of the understanding that whoever owned the property at the time the notice was served was liable for any repairs done under that notice. Even if it takes years for the work to be done any new owners are not liable. I would say to the OP if his name is not on the notice then i would get in touch with the council and inform the previous owner whereabouts if known. It is something your solicitor should have taken care of when you bought the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I don't believe that to be the case. I was of the understanding that whoever owned the property at the time the notice was served was liable for any repairs done under that notice. Even if it takes years for the work to be done any new owners are not liable. I would say to the OP if his name is not on the notice then i would get in touch with the council and inform the previous owner whereabouts if known. It is something your solicitor should have taken care of when you bought the house. This is correct. You are only liable for any statutory notice that have been served while you owned the property. At the time of your purchase, the selling solicitors would have had to supply your solicitors with a Property Enquiry Certificate (PEC). Amongst other things, the PEC confirms whether or not any statutory notices have been served / are outstanding over the subjects. If this was the case, the sellers are still liable for the final costs involved, regardless of how long ago they sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 You only pay your share so other people's finances are irrelevant. If they cant pay you do not make up the shortfall. Yes but what happens ? Say you have 10 people in a block. Economy is in a bit of mess. 5 of them can't pay up. So do the repairs actually get done ? Will a contractor take it on in the circumstance ? What if the people that can't afford decide to sell up but it takes ages to sell their place ? I am sure all of this has happened before, just wondering how it all goes works out when things are less than rosy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Yes but what happens ? Say you have 10 people in a block. Economy is in a bit of mess. 5 of them can't pay up. So do the repairs actually get done ? Will a contractor take it on in the circumstance ? What if the people that can't afford decide to sell up but it takes ages to sell their place ? I am sure all of this has happened before, just wondering how it all goes works out when things are less than rosy. The contractor gets paid not matter what. The council pay them and it is then up to the council to retrieve the money. This assumes the notice work is done under the councils control and is not a privately arranged job. Licence to print money if you can get onto the councils list of approved contractors. If you sell up before during or after the work then enough money is set aside from the sale of your house to pay the bill. Normally a lot more than the final bill but any surplus is obviously paid back to the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 The contractor gets paid not matter what. The council pay them and it is then up to the council to retrieve the money. This assumes the notice work is done under the councils control and is not a privately arranged job. Licence to print money if you can get onto the councils list of approved contractors. If you sell up before during or after the work then enough money is set aside from the sale of your house to pay the bill. Normally a lot more than the final bill but any surplus is obviously paid back to the seller. Cheers for that. So it seems yet again the council using taxpayers money at other peoples expense. What a shock.... PS. What happens when the value of the sale of your house doesn't cover what you owe ? Who pays then............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Cheers for that. So it seems yet again the council using taxpayers money at other peoples expense. What a shock.... PS. What happens when the value of the sale of your house doesn't cover what you owe ? Who pays then............. Much as I hate local government, if the people who live in the tenement don't take action, what do you expect the Council to do? Wait until someone is killed by following masonry? As for the debt question, if someone can't pay up then they're subject to due process of the law just as with any other debt. And rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Much as I hate local government, if the people who live in the tenement don't take action, what do you expect the Council to do? Wait until someone is killed by following masonry? As for the debt question, if someone can't pay up then they're subject to due process of the law just as with any other debt. And rightly so. I don't have a problem with it in theory. However the process of just paying for it up front - then chasing it up afterwards could maybe be improved... This house buying malarky seems like more and more of a hassle by the day !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 This house buying malarky seems like more and more of a hassle by the day !! Even more so if one has an axe to grind..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 It also depends on when you purchased the flat (assuming you are the owner - if you are just a tennent in a lease dont worry about it). In some case's when people buy/sell properties it is written in to the deal that any work due to be carried out under a Stat. Notice will be paid by the previous owner or is taken into account with the final sale price....if you have owned your flat for many a year (e.g before the Stat notice was served), unfortunately your liable for the costs. I advise you contact the Stat Notice dept asap so you know exactly what is going on with these two invoices. Here's a link to find out more info (also has contact numbers for you). http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/internet/Environment/Planning_buildings_i_i_/Property%20Conservation/CEC_statutory_notices cheers for that. also found an area on the site where you can look for old & o/s notices. apparently there was a notice in 2003 then another in 2006 which have both had accounts issued. have had no contact on those. what looks to be the one i've got now was apparently issued in 2005 according to the website, but says 2007 on the notice. given that they haven't chased me for these other 2 phantom bills i'm half tempted just to sit on the note i've received. its the inital note from the firm involved rather than the actual bill from the council so i'll wait for that at least before getting my name officially involved. solicitor will be getting a call regardless. cheers to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Even more so if one has an axe to grind..... Nah it just seems like a hassle !! Everytime I speak to someone about housing all they have is stories of serious hassles. If we had a decent rental system here like they have in Germany I would probably just go along that route. Decisions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boaby Ewing Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Much as I hate local government, if the people who live in the tenement don't take action, what do you expect the Council to do? Wait until someone is killed by following masonry? As for the debt question, if someone can't pay up then they're subject to due process of the law just as with any other debt. And rightly so. I can see why you've taken an interest in this thread. Keep your tenements tip-top kids, or the Tims will be round to chib your CoS erses to bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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