Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK, given most people appear happy that Hearts do good business and sell players at a fair price on the basis that 1. we are a selling club, 2. we need the debt down - can we have a go at quantifying realistic values of players at the club Vlad could sell. Might give us an idea of what our debt would be at the end of the summer. I've guessed our current debt is ?25m mark - given the transfer income of the last year. Of course I may be way off the mark what with unknown fees / agency costs etc that might be totted up to our list Berra ?2m Kingston ?3 Wallace ?1m Driver ?1.5m Jonsson ?500k Jose ?1m Ruben ?750k Bruno ?400k Chesney ?500k Nade ?500k Pinnila ?2m ?13.15m give or take a few hundred grand. Any advance? So a debt of around ?12m. Should we actively attempt to sell them all? Are we actively attempting to sell them all? Would we be happier if we did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig R Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Should we actively attempt to sell them all? Are we actively attempting to sell them all? Would we be happier if we did? No. No. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 And who would play? And what division would we be in? And how would the supporters feel? And what would the morale of the club be like? And who would be happy to manage that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'd love to get the debt down to around 12 million and play some of the youngsters I can handle bad football in place of a sustainable future for the club. I don't think we'd get anywhere near the figures you are suggesting however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 And who would play? And what division would we be in? And how would the supporters feel? And what would the morale of the club be like? And who would be happy to manage that? Well football appears to be a side issue - and I'm not being facetious. The jist of the Berra and Wallace threads are "if the price is right". I'm sure that would be the same for Jose and Kingston threads. Beyond that I doubt anyone would be that fussed about the others. We know Vlad will sell if the price is right. We know he will sell whether or not there are suitable replacements. So - what value do we place upon our sellable assets, and is getting down to ?12m worth getting rid of them for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK, given most people appear happy that Hearts do good business and sell players at a fair price on the basis that 1. we are a selling club, 2. we need the debt down - can we have a go at quantifying realistic values of players at the club Vlad could sell. Might give us an idea of what our debt would be at the end of the summer. I've guessed our current debt is ?25m mark - given the transfer income of the last year. Of course I may be way off the mark what with unknown fees / agency costs etc that might be totted up to our list Berra ?2m Kingston ?3 Wallace ?1m Driver ?1.5m Jonsson ?500k Jose ?1mRuben ?750k Bruno ?400k Chesney ?500k Nade ?500kPinnila ?2m ?13.15m give or take a few hundred grand. Any advance? So a debt of around ?12m. Should we actively attempt to sell them all? Are we actively attempting to sell them all? Would we be happier if we did? Jose ?1m and Nade ?500k,you having a laugh,FFS you would be lucky to get ?400k for the two of them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK, given most people appear happy that Hearts do good business and sell players at a fair price on the basis that 1. we are a selling club, 2. we need the debt down - can we have a go at quantifying realistic values of players at the club Vlad could sell. Might give us an idea of what our debt would be at the end of the summer. I've guessed our current debt is ?25m mark - given the transfer income of the last year. Of course I may be way off the mark what with unknown fees / agency costs etc that might be totted up to our list Berra ?2m Kingston ?3 Wallace ?1m Driver ?1.5m Jonsson ?500k Jose ?1m Ruben ?750k Bruno ?400k Chesney ?500k Nade ?500k Pinnila ?2m ?13.15m give or take a few hundred grand. Any advance? So a debt of around ?12m. Should we actively attempt to sell them all? Are we actively attempting to sell them all? Would we be happier if we did? Sell them all. Get the debt down and get VR out of here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Jose ?1m and Nade ?500k,you having a laugh,FFS you would be lucky to get ?400k for the two of them together. Well I am trying to get a figure between what Vlad has said he wants, what they might be worth to other clubs and what we think of them For example Jose is never a 1.3m Euro player but that is what Celta Vigo purportedly offered last season. I dont think Berra is worth ?2m but that appears to be what might be on offer So its not so much what I think they are valued at, or what value they are to the team, more what I think a team might pay for them The precise fee is irrelevant though. Its the principle of selling every sellable asset and starting again that I am looking to prompt debate upon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Well I am trying to get a figure between what Vlad has said he wants, what they might be worth to other clubs and what we think of them For example Jose is never a 1.3m Euro player but that is what Celta Vigo purportedly offered last season. I dont think Berra is worth ?2m but that appears to be what might be on offer So its not so much what I think they are valued at, or what value they are to the team, more what I think a team might pay for them The precise fee is irrelevant though. Its the principle of selling every sellable asset and starting again that I am looking to prompt debate upon TBH JT I don't think any club would pay decent money for Jose or Nade,they are above their level at the moment,so unless someone had a blind scout at our games then I think we are stuck with them or Vlad takes a massive hit and lets them go for what they are really worth,very little IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Muller Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'd say Miko is worth at least ?400k-500k Neilson ?250k Makela ?250k Beslija ?250k There's another ?1m+!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'd say Miko is worth at least ?400k-500kNeilson ?250k Makela ?250k Beslija ?250k There's another ?1m+!! Would YOU want Hearts to pay ?500,000 for Miko ? I wouldn't. And I don't expect any other Clubs to do so either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funktasticlad Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Berra, Kingston and Driver are ?1m players the rest of the squad have done nothing to merit fees of over a few hundred thou. Current Squad is worth ?10million quid if your lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sell them all. Get the debt down and get VR out of here. Do you think Vlad would sell? Hardly. The whole FBK Kaunas team would arrive to fill the gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo83 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Berra, Kingston and Driver are ?1m players the rest of the squad have done nothing to merit fees of over a few hundred thou. Current Squad is worth ?10million quid if your lucky Sorry to disagree, but that's utter p!sh mate Berra is worth at least ?1.75m - ?2.5m Kingston is worth over ?2m Driver is maybe worth ?1m, i'll give you that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Do you think Vlad would sell? Hardly. The whole FBK Kaunas team would arrive to fill the gaps. Vlad - reading this thread - has a lightbulb moment Do you think he wouldnt do that? Do you think it is impossible? He pretty much knows this is his last squeeze on season tickets. Once people hand over money he can do what he wants. Why wouldnt he cash in every sellable asset and loan the Kaunas team wholesale. What makes you think he wouldnt do that. Its economic cost cutting at its purest most effective level. Maximize income - player sales / customer sales through season tickets. Then offer cheaper produce once people are committed financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funktasticlad Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sorry to disagree, but that's utter p!sh mate Berra is worth at least ?1.75m - ?2.5m Kingston is worth over ?2m Driver is maybe worth ?1m, i'll give you that one Should say ?1m + my bad. Agree with your valuations but outwith those three hearts dont have a player thats worth or should bo worth anymore than 500k at a push Jonsson due to his international status but the likes of Jose Karipidis Bruno Ruben Makela Wallace Neilson Miko Chesney Nade Pinnila have done sfa to prove or merit any more than a 500k transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.A.N.S Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'd say Miko is worth at least ?400k-500kNeilson ?250k Makela ?250k Beslija ?250k There's another ?1m+!! If anyone offered anything near these amounts for these huddies I'd personally carry them there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Do you think Vlad would sell? Hardly. The whole FBK Kaunas team would arrive to fill the gaps. Do you think VR will keep us forever ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funktasticlad Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 If anyone offered anything near these amounts for these huddies I'd personally carry them there! I take over when you got tired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The thing everyone is missing is why would Vlad want to reduce the debt, while is bank is receiving interest payments every month on it? Reduced debt = Reduced monthly UKIO Bankas income. CO might want the debt down, but Vlad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 The thing everyone is missing is why would Vlad want to reduce the debt, while is bank is receiving interest payments every month on it? Reduced debt = Reduced monthly UKIO Bankas income. CO might want the debt down, but Vlad? A good point It presupposes every penny from every sale goes into Hearts overdraft though. Maybe Vlad charges an "agency" fee for every transfer? Didnt we have ?3.8m of vague unexplained costs on the most recent account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The thing everyone is missing is why would Vlad want to reduce the debt, while is bank is receiving interest payments every month on it?Reduced debt = Reduced monthly UKIO Bankas income. CO might want the debt down, but Vlad? This really get's me as well,why are HMFC paying interest on money that is owned by the bank in the first place or the same company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Do you think VR will keep us forever ? He might out of stubborness! Have you ever known a more stubborn owner of this club than Vladimir Romanov? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 He might out of stubborness! Have you ever known a more stubborn owner of this club than Vladimir Romanov? Or a bigger mentalist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 He might out of stubborness! Have you ever known a more stubborn owner of this club than Vladimir Romanov? Mercer and Robinson were stubborn owners also. I think VR will be gone within 2 years. And we will still be playing in front of the current Main Stand when he leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Mercer and Robinson were stubborn owners also. I think VR will be gone within 2 years. And we will still be playing in front of the current Main Stand when he leaves. Mercer and Robinson never owned the club in the way that Vlad does. No one has ever owned a larger share of the club than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 This really get's me as well,why are HMFC paying interest on money that is owned by the bank in the first place or the same company. Does it get you as well that they are prepared to loan us capital that they haven't got a realistic hope of repaying unless the debt was swopped to equity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reaths17 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 we beat both of the infirm with these same players and under proper management the squad could be half decent. driver, jonsson, wallace and even berra have potential to get better, with a steady work enviroment i'm pretty damn sure they would all look better on the pitch. lets not start rippin the players, it's the lack of a real manager that is the cause of our downfall. under the proper conditions we would all value these players way more than we are here. personally, i think driver could end up very good and compared to some. (mcgeady plays the same position) the price on his head makes driver worth everybit and more of the ?1.5m being quoted on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Mercer and Robinson were stubborn owners also. I think VR will be gone within 2 years. And we will still be playing in front of the current Main Stand when he leaves. Yeah DH, but they weren't nuts like this comedian in charge just now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sell them all. Get the debt down and get VR out of here. That is what I was thinking If only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Mercer and Robinson never owned the club in the way that Vlad does. No one has ever owned a larger share of the club than him. But they were still very stubborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_R Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 In a word- no. I'd still take a few ?100k for some of them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Yeah DH, but they weren't nuts like this comedian in charge just now. Comedians normally make me laugh NT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 I don't really buy this whole cust cutting thing. Its doesn't add as long as we are willing to pay wages we can't afford. To be honest I think its just a myth used to justify Vlads actions. I also doubt the debt is as low as 25m, considering the amount of money we seem to loose year on year. Even with a reduced wage bill etc, I suspect Vlad will continue to speculate on making profit on players (ie. Pinnila) and probablly get it wrong. The players we seem to have made money recently are not the ones been identified brought to the club by Vlad. They were existing players or somone elses signings. I supsect the debt, may continue to increase due to a bad signing policy. I would think Vlad would sell every player at the club if he made a profit on them. What I don't think he would do is cut his losses on someone. ie. He would not sell Goncalves for what he paid for him or less. Not convinced Vlad sees any bigger picture. I do think we are becomming like the Hobos. Where finances are judged as being more important than on the pitch. Now don't get me wrong I don't think we should see the mismanagement we have witnessed under Vlad and CPR. However, I don't think we should be almost celeberating players sales and not caring about what happens on the park. FFS we are a football team. I just think too many of us are many execuses for us being crap at the moment! I agree with every single word - good post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsinclar Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK, given most people appear happy that Hearts do good business and sell players at a fair price on the basis that 1. we are a selling club, 2. we need the debt down - can we have a go at quantifying realistic values of players at the club Vlad could sell. Might give us an idea of what our debt would be at the end of the summer. I've guessed our current debt is ?25m mark - given the transfer income of the last year. Of course I may be way off the mark what with unknown fees / agency costs etc that might be totted up to our list Berra ?2m Kingston ?3 Wallace ?1m Driver ?1.5m Jonsson ?500k Jose ?1m Ruben ?750k Bruno ?400k Chesney ?500k Nade ?500k Pinnila ?2m ?13.15m give or take a few hundred grand. Any advance? So a debt of around ?12m. Should we actively attempt to sell them all? Are we actively attempting to sell them all? Would we be happier if we did? I think these valuations are too high. esp. kingston, he's so overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BervieJambo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK, given most people appear happy that Hearts do good business and sell players at a fair price on the basis that 1. we are a selling club, 2. we need the debt down - can we have a go at quantifying realistic values of players at the club Vlad could sell. Might give us an idea of what our debt would be at the end of the summer. I've guessed our current debt is ?25m mark - given the transfer income of the last year. Of course I may be way off the mark what with unknown fees / agency costs etc that might be totted up to our list Berra ?2m Kingston ?3 Wallace ?1m Driver ?1.5m Jonsson ?500k Jose ?1m Ruben ?750k Bruno ?400k Chesney ?500k Nade ?500k Pinnila ?2m ?13.15m give or take a few hundred grand. Any advance? So a debt of around ?12m. Should we actively attempt to sell them all? Are we actively attempting to sell them all? Would we be happier if we did? We finished 8th in the SPL:mad: - how can we claim to have any million pound players? If we get offered anywhere near the amounts quoted above, we should take the money and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busby8 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Berra, Kingston and Driver are ?1m players the rest of the squad have done nothing to merit fees of over a few hundred thou. Current Squad is worth ?10million quid if your lucky I think those three are worth around 6 to 7 million between them. But Jose'??????????,...................and 2 million for Pinilla,...............you've really got to be kidding with that one !! He'll cost twice as much on rehab fees over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawrrrrrrr Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Vlad might think we do in his deluded brain but asset wise this is what I think we could command for players based on current form and circumstances Goalkeepers - None of saleable value Defenders - Neilson 2-300k, Thomson Nominal and a sell on, Karapidis 150-400k, Berra 2m, Jose 300k and sell on, Wallace 750k Midfielders - Miko 600k, Chesney 600k, Larry 2.5mn, Eggert 1mn plus performance based, Ruben 150k, Driver 600k Strikers - Glen 500k plus big bonuses, Elliot and Mole 200k and bonuses, Pinilla 750k, Nade 400k Youth : McGowan (300k plus performance based), copil 150k ish, Husband 150kish Sadly the rest of our players I think we would struggle to sell as even if someone would take them there contracts and wages would put them off What makes it worse is these players all put in cost significantly more than we could realistically gather for them All in all unless vlad does one and lets a proper manager do his thing we are ball deep in a torture chamber:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I think these valuations are too high. esp. kingston, he's so overrated. Here here. The one player in our squad who the fans seem to love despite his performances being distinctly average and him taking a massive wage every week. He can leave now as far as i am concerned. A luxury we cannot afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Vlad might think we do in his deluded brain but asset wise this is what I think we could command for players based on current form and circumstances Goalkeepers - None of saleable value Defenders - Neilson 2-300k, Thomson Nominal and a sell on, Karapidis 150-400k, Berra 2m, Jose 300k and sell on, Wallace 750k Midfielders - Miko 600k, Chesney 600k, Larry 2.5mn, Eggert 1mn plus performance based, Ruben 150k, Driver 600k Strikers - Glen 500k plus big bonuses, Elliot and Mole 200k and bonuses, Pinilla 750k, Nade 400k Youth : McGowan (300k plus performance based), copil 150k ish, Husband 150kish Sadly the rest of our players I think we would struggle to sell as even if someone would take them there contracts and wages would put them off What makes it worse is these players all put in cost significantly more than we could realistically gather for them All in all unless vlad does one and lets a proper manager do his thing we are ball deep in a torture chamber:mad: I don't think you are that far off on some but i would differ on: Defenders - Neilson 2-300k, Think you might get a little more Thomson Nominal and a sell on, Karapidis 150-400k, Berra 2m, Jose 300k and sell on, Wallace 750k Midfielders - Miko 600k, Chesney 600k, Can't see anyone paying for either Larry 2.5mn, Eggert 1mn plus performance based, Might get more - there have been a few stories of interest and he's getting his game at international level Ruben 150k, Driver 600k Agree now but has potential for more if he has a decent season Strikers - Glen 500k plus big bonuses, Elliot and Mole 200k and bonuses, woth nothing I think - didn't succeed at a lower level so why would anyone want them for a fee plus they are on big wages Pinilla 750k, Not sure - the eternal enigma - play him three games in a row and his value will shoot up Nade 400k Hasn't done his value any favours - any medical worth it's salt would reject him Youth : McGowan (300k plus performance based), copil 150k ish, Husband 150kish Not sure we would get fees - there are a lotof youth players around and most lower level clubs pick up better clubs' rejects for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubilee Spree Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Problem is, if you sell two or three players other teams (and agents) will sniff a fire sale and the rest of the valuations placed on these players will tumble. Hate to say it but the only real saleable asset that could clear the debt is Tynecastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 And who would play? And what division would we be in? And how would the supporters feel? And what would the morale of the club be like? And who would be happy to manage that? romanov's philosophy is sell, sell, sell. romanov + no pride, no honour, no loyalty and no ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Kidd Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Problem is, if you sell two or three players other teams (and agents) will sniff a fire sale and the rest of the valuations placed on these players will tumble. Hate to say it but the only real saleable asset that could clear the debt is Tynecastle. Sniff sniff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sniff sniff. Confirmed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sniff sniff. Are you suggesting this WK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djf Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hobo or not his point is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dode Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Vlad may be "mad" but how can you fault his business acumen Skacel went for a lot more that he was bought for ditto Bednar and for the icing on the top CG no one can tell me that pieman or any other would have prised ?9 mil for Gordon, he was a scottish internationalist and that usualy carries no stock( except laughing) in EPL. he was well shafted over webster also beslija and makela look to be hard to shift. I'm no financial wiz but is it possible that ukio/Vlad are using Hearts to carry company debt and as such pay no tax on profit in the UK. Did vlad not inherit a lot of piemans debt like buying up VAT bills from bankrupt companies to offset any company profit as I stated I have no financial knowhow so if I am totally wrong be gentle with me eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts of Vladland Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 If Hearts sell all there high priced players but keep the players that can keep them in the top six and aren't wage theifs. We could lose all the debt and start to make a profit and then buy the player that could challange the OF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 romanov's philosophy is sell, sell, sell. romanov + no pride, no honour, no loyalty and no ambition. He isn't very good at it then So far he's bought bought bought more than he's sold sold sold Hence the debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlo Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 We finished 8th in the SPL:mad: - how can we claim to have any million pound players? If we get offered anywhere near the amounts quoted above, we should take the money and run. I agree - a lot of people seem to miss that point that the main reason we finished 8th this season is that quite simply we're not very good. There are very few players in the squad that I would have a problem with us selling - as long as we get a decent price for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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