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EU Referendum


Stephen Muddie

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Stephen Muddie

I have heard from someone normally good for info that we may be deciding on this as early as June this year.

Appears to be a possibility...

Are most kickbackers in or out? I'm not entirely sure myself.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11324069/What-is-the-EU-referendum-and-when-is-it.html

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Stephen Muddie

Can you edit to include a poll? I'd be out of Europe myself.

I didn't think to do that. Never done it before, went in to edit feature and couldn't see an option. Might be there

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In

 

The only reason the right wing parties want to come out of the EU is so they can rip up worker's rights and screw the working man even more.

 

None of the arguments the Out lot have put forward make any kind of sense at all, other than some sort of delusion and nostalgia about the British empire.

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The Real Maroonblood

In.

Genuinely don't understand any reason for being out. The less borders in this world the better.

It's certainly working well at the moment.
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Stephen Muddie

Working for a company that exports 98% of its product to Europe, I'll most likely be voting in.

Oil or alcohol mate?

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In.

 

Economically out makes no sense.

Politically it's suicide.

Socially we're all European now.

 

In. In. In.

 

If we follow the Farage, wee-Englander, nationalist trumpets in an out vote we'd all be worse off and the fat cats in the city would be better off.

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In.

 

Genuinely don't understand any reason for being out. The less borders in this world the better.

A lot of it seems to be shady and fundamentally undemocratic,unelected politicians making decisions. The recent issue with Scottish govt wanting to change minimum pricing of alcohol but being unable due to eu market rules.

 

can anyone answer these points? I'd also like to hear the main benefits to eu membership- i don't accept freedom of movement as a benefit as Scotland could/would do that anyway. How much do we benefit from eu funds? fair enough if less wealthy counties benefit more but again we could do that ourselves more efficiently.

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In.

 

Economically out makes no sense.

Politically it's suicide.

Socially we're all European now.

 

In. In. In.

 

If we follow the Farage, wee-Englander, nationalist trumpets in an out vote we'd all be worse off and the fat cats in the city would be better off.

can you explain your thoughts? I'm the layest of men

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Stephen Muddie

Please can we try not turn this into an indy type discussion? I'm not accusing you. Swarlos, you're entitled to give your reasons as is everyone. I just CBA with the polarised tedium of neo-liberalism, so it's a friendly reminder to others to give their own opinions and not just jump on yours (or others')

I think it's ironic that when we come out the EU we will be scrapping the ECHR, the same convention Cherie Blair and her crazed property speculating pals are trying to use to fight the government's long-needed taxation measures on BTL.

I think it will be close. I have no interest in making things better any more so leaning towards Out/No atm.

 

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Out for me, being told by the French and Germans who we let cross our borders is not for me the 

French and Germans think they are Europe.

 

Let the UK decide who comes in across our borders, and let the UK make our own laws.

Watching all these horrible things happening to females especially in Germany and Scandanavia, says to me close the borders for a while and monitor it all.

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jack D and coke

Nothing will change my mind that Out is the only sensible option. Germany is out of control and the whole thing needs brought down.

100% out.

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chuck berrys hairline

I've always been under the impression your better being in as its guaranteed trade. Also if we opt out will everyone not have to fill out visa's just to go on holiday?

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Like Hearts in 2016 I am very much in the European bandwagon.

 

BETTER TOGETHER.

STRENGTH IN NUMBERS.

PULL RESOURCES AS ONE.

 

:gok:

Edited by Sarah O
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Quite surprised by the number of posters indicating that they are leaning towards Out.

I think the argument is being slightly skewed.

 

The EUnneeds reformed and national sovereignty seems to be an issue, but UKIP (imo) use this as a smoke screen. As a poster above stated, they want out so they can get rid of workers rights and that's not on imo.

 

Equally, some on the left want out as they see the EU as bad for workers TTIP for example.

 

Certainly a conundrum!

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I'm undecided to be honest, however if the 'deal' Mr. Cameron presented yesterday is all that we get, then I think he'll have a real job on his hands to persuade the public to stay within the EU. 

My reading of part of the 'Deal' is that on migrant benefits the UK could only apply an emergency brake in exceptional circumstances and only with the approval of a majority of other EU countries.

 

It's not a 'Deal' when you still need to ask the EU for permission to cut benefits. 

 

Just on Sky News that they ran a poll and 69% of the public say it's a bad deal for the UK.

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Where did this borders are bad come from. We're not talking the Berlin wall here. Everyone should have a real good look at what the TTIP is and the mindset behind it, that is where the EU is heading, to hell in a hand basket

Edited by niblick1874
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Out for me, being told by the English who we let cross our borders is not for me.

The English think they are the Uk.

 

Let the Scots decide who comes in across our borders, and let Scotland make our own laws.

Edited by aussieh
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Out for me, being told by the English who we let cross our borders is not for me.

The English think they are the Uk.

 

Let the Scots decide who comes in across our borders, and let Scotland make our own laws.

Let the Scots decide? That will be everyone then

Edited by GBJambo
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ame="aussieh" post="5223709" timestamp="1454517375"]

 

 

Let the Scots decide? That will be everyone then

So when 70 odd % of Scotland vote in.

Then are taken out of the Human rights and workers rights the EU provides, by England, that's ok is it?, because we're the UK and that's what we go with.

Out of Europe, Tory Governments etc...

Not this time.

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So when 70 odd % of Scotland vote in.

Then are taken out of the Human rights and workers rights the EU provides, by England, that's ok is it?, because we're the UK and that's what we go with.

Out of Europe, Tory Governments etc...

Not this time.

I'll ask again. How can the SNP want independents then say they want to be part of the EU. I, as well as most Scotts, detest being disenfranchised when we are put under the cosh of the tories but there is no difference between being disenfranchised by a tory government and being disenfranchised by the EU.   

Edited by niblick1874
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AlphonseCapone

I'll ask again. How can the SNP want independents then say they want to be part of the EU. I, as well as most Scotts, detest being disenfranchised when we are put under the cosh of the tories but there is no difference between being disenfranchised by a tory government and being disenfranchised by the EU.

You live in Canada mate, **** you talking about?

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I'll ask again. How can the SNP want independents then say they want to be part of the EU. I, as well as most Scotts, detest being disenfranchised when we are put under the cosh of the tories but there is no difference between being disenfranchised by a tory government and being disenfranchised by the EU.

 

Probably because it highlights the fact that Scotland isn't an independent country insomuch as we might get forced out while voting 90% in, or vice versa.

 

I agree with the stance, but hope that snp listen to their members on this and go with a majority. Backing 'in' without consultation would be a labour style 'no' disaster.

 

(For the record I will likely vote snp till independence, but doubt I ever would after.)

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So when 70 odd % of Scotland vote in.

Then are taken out of the Human rights and workers rights the EU provides, by England, that's ok is it?, because we're the UK and that's what we go with.

Out of Europe, Tory Governments etc...

Not this time.

The European Convention on Human Rights is nothing to do with the European Union. That is related to the Council of Europe which includes Serbia, Russia and Norway who are non-EU nations.

 

Leaving the EU is not analogous to leaving the ECHR or the Council of Europe.

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can you explain your thoughts? I'm the layest of men

For the UK as a whole the European Union is the biggest market we are in. It benefits from deals individual member states wouldn't get with China, Russia, India and the USA if they were negotiating alone. It's a huge economic boost for the UK. Including the ability to have free internal borders and movement of peoples is fundamental here too as from that there are no import or export tariffs and no need for visas, meaning rather than a market of 65 million guaranteed, you've got one of 600 million.

 

Socially? Well since membership of the EU we've become a nation of people who thrive on Spanish, Italian and Greek cuisine. We love their wines, their foods and their goods. We travel there and soak up their cultures as they do us. We are culturally more European and liberal than we were before joining. The freedom to move and experience a variety of cultures is a great benefit of the EU.

 

Politically, the UK has a louder voice globally because it is a key EU nation. It adds weight to our relationship with Washington and makes us relevant in the eyes of Beijing. It makes us more important and provides us the chance to agree common positions from which a number of EU nations can exert their pressure together in the name of mutually agreeable goals. Like in dealing with Iran or Russia.

 

The issue for me, is that the UK is not embracing the EU enough to make the most of it and influence it in the way we want to see it grow and develop. We should get into the tent and piss out not in.

 

Ultimately, I still wouldn't join the euro though.

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Trapper John McIntyre

I'd say I was naturally a 'stay in the EU' type but lately I've started to wonder just a little...

 

I will probably vote to stay in, but the world today is not the same as 1975 when it was a no-brainer.

 

Maybe if the ultimate result  is very close to staying in it might spur on further change for the better from Brussels/EU.

 

But I can sympathise with anyone who is genuinely unsure. I don't think it's such a clear cut decision as many claim it to be.

Edited by Trapper John McIntyre
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For the UK as a whole the European Union is the biggest market we are in. It benefits from deals individual member states wouldn't get with China, Russia, India and the USA if they were negotiating alone. It's a huge economic boost for the UK. Including the ability to have free internal borders and movement of peoples is fundamental here too as from that there are no import or export tariffs and no need for visas, meaning rather than a market of 65 million guaranteed, you've got one of 600 million.

 

Socially? Well since membership of the EU we've become a nation of people who thrive on Spanish, Italian and Greek cuisine. We love their wines, their foods and their goods. We travel there and soak up their cultures as they do us. We are culturally more European and liberal than we were before joining. The freedom to move and experience a variety of cultures is a great benefit of the EU.

 

Politically, the UK has a louder voice globally because it is a key EU nation. It adds weight to our relationship with Washington and makes us relevant in the eyes of Beijing. It makes us more important and provides us the chance to agree common positions from which a number of EU nations can exert their pressure together in the name of mutually agreeable goals. Like in dealing with Iran or Russia.

 

The issue for me, is that the UK is not embracing the EU enough to make the most of it and influence it in the way we want to see it grow and develop. We should get into the tent and piss out not in.

 

Ultimately, I still wouldn't join the euro though.

This is where I'm at.

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Trope: "The EU is undemocratic because we don't get to vote for the Commissioners"

Truth: We don't get to vote for Chancellor, Home Secretary, Secretary of State for Defence or any other cabinet post in the UK either. They are appointed by the Prime Minister. This is much LESS democratic than the EU, where MEPs vote for other MEPs to become Commissioners.

 

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AlphonseCapone

Trope: "The EU is undemocratic because we don't get to vote for the Commissioners"

Truth: We don't get to vote for Chancellor, Home Secretary, Secretary of State for Defence or any other cabinet post in the UK either. They are appointed by the Prime Minister. This is much LESS democratic than the EU, where MEPs vote for other MEPs to become Commissioners.

 

 

Good point.

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I think the argument is being slightly skewed.

 

The EUnneeds reformed and national sovereignty seems to be an issue, but UKIP (imo) use this as a smoke screen. As a poster above stated, they want out so they can get rid of workers rights and that's not on imo.

 

Equally, some on the left want out as they see the EU as bad for workers TTIP for example.

 

Certainly a conundrum!

For me, it's mostly about trade. Are we in a stronger position as one of 27, 28 countries? Or are we better doing free trade agreements with the Commonwealth and English speaking countries? I really don't know or I'm undecided anyway.

 

The social union with Europe? It's always felt forced to me. I say that as someone generally pro EU who works with Europeans day in, day out.

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Trope: "The EU is undemocratic because we don't get to vote for the Commissioners"

Truth: We don't get to vote for Chancellor, Home Secretary, Secretary of State for Defence or any other cabinet post in the UK either. They are appointed by the Prime Minister. This is much LESS democratic than the EU, where MEPs vote for other MEPs to become Commissioners.

 

 

What a shan argument. Each of those office holders is an elected MP and accountable to their electorate. Who is a commissioner accountable to?

 

Tony Benn's 5 questions applies here.

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Trope: "The EU is undemocratic because we don't get to vote for the Commissioners"

Truth: We don't get to vote for Chancellor, Home Secretary, Secretary of State for Defence or any other cabinet post in the UK either. They are appointed by the Prime Minister. This is much LESS democratic than the EU, where MEPs vote for other MEPs to become Commissioners.

 

 

Wrong. The electors of the seats who return those cabinet ministers democratically elect them. The commission is not made up of people who are elected full stop. It'd be far better if the commissioners came from the European Parliament not patronage of their national governments.

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HaymarketJambo

I always think it's waste money having Two European Parliaments in Brussels and Strasbourg but I also think it's a waste of money having the House of Lords, I'm moving towards voting No though that could change?       

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Wrong. The electors of the seats who return those cabinet ministers democratically elect them. The commission is not made up of people who are elected full stop. It'd be far better if the commissioners came from the European Parliament not patronage of their national governments.

Correct
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For the UK as a whole the European Union is the biggest market we are in. It benefits from deals individual member states wouldn't get with China, Russia, India and the USA if they were negotiating alone. It's a huge economic boost for the UK. Including the ability to have free internal borders and movement of peoples is fundamental here too as from that there are no import or export tariffs and no need for visas, meaning rather than a market of 65 million guaranteed, you've got one of 600 million.

Socially? Well since membership of the EU we've become a nation of people who thrive on Spanish, Italian and Greek cuisine. We love their wines, their foods and their goods. We travel there and soak up their cultures as they do us. We are culturally more European and liberal than we were before joining. The freedom to move and experience a variety of cultures is a great benefit of the EU.

Politically, the UK has a louder voice globally because it is a key EU nation. It adds weight to our relationship with Washington and makes us relevant in the eyes of Beijing. It makes us more important and provides us the chance to agree common positions from which a number of EU nations can exert their pressure together in the name of mutually agreeable goals. Like in dealing with Iran or Russia.

The issue for me, is that the UK is not embracing the EU enough to make the most of it and influence it in the way we want to see it grow and develop. We should get into the tent and piss out not in.

Ultimately, I still wouldn't join the euro though.

Thanks for this.

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Trope: "The EU is undemocratic because we don't get to vote for the Commissioners"

Truth: We don't get to vote for Chancellor, Home Secretary, Secretary of State for Defence or any other cabinet post in the UK either. They are appointed by the Prime Minister. This is much LESS democratic than the EU, where MEPs vote for other MEPs to become Commissioners.

 

House of Lords!!

 

Your truth doesn't make your trope untrue. Do you have concerns about eu setup at all?

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